Should of ...

[Asclepias]

Idiocracy, it's here.

The bastardization of the glorious and eloquent English language has been a problem for ages. I dare say, few people today could pass a grammar test. Sentence structure has been all but destroyed; I notice this more now than when I was younger, partly because I write a lot, partly because I am more aware, and partly because people are becoming more ignorant. There are countless examples I could give, but the latest I am seeing more and more is-

"I should of went somewhere else."

I wonder how many here will even see the grotesque stupidity in that sentence.

[MENTION=46796]shart_attack[/MENTION]

The English language is a bastard language itself. There is nothing really "English" about it. Its made up of words and phrases borrowed from other cultures spanning the globe. Thats why people frequently say its the hardest language to learn. Communication is more important than keeping any language "pure" unless it conveys some attribute found nowhere else. If I speak Ebonics to someone else that speaks the dialect then we communicate just fine.

There's plenty "English" about it (Anglo-Saxon) as well as German, French and too many other donor languages to count. I don't think that's why they say it's hard to learn; I think it's because of our inconsistent rules of spelling and grammar. Which is going to happen when in most languages that (a) hang around a long time and (b) interact with other ones. As opposed to, say, Icelandic, which steadfastly retains its structure to the point where an Icelander can still read Old Norse sagas of 800 years ago, which would be all but impossible for us.

But I think what makes English difficult for other speakers is navigaiting through "The Tough Coughs as He Ploughs the Dough" and such variable orthographical hiccoughs.

Dont forget the

to/two/too
bass (music)/bass (fish)
there/their/theyre

 

[Swagger]

I think it's a combination of schools focusing on other topics, and the technology that leads to some laziness. People used to do long math in their heads, and then we had the calculator. I really overlook the majority of it, but there is one that usually catches my eye...when someone uses "that" instead of "who", such as: I was talking to the guy that bagged my groceries." Anyway, as a former first grade teacher, I encouraged my students not to get hung up on spelling and grammar in the first stages of the writing process, because I didn't want them to be inhibited. We'd then work on the "sloppy copies" and use it to learn about the editing process. Some of the best writers probably have editors who are amazed at simple mistakes that need to be corrected. Even though we're all adults here, I've only picked on one person here for her writing style...and TM deserved it!! Oh, and that fucking idiot who used to post in multiple colors...refused to read that bullshit.

I'm in agreement on overlooking grammatical errors during a child's pre-school/early elementary years, but a line should be drawn after a certain age.

I know I've mentioned this in the past, and I don't really want to labour the point, but people on here have absolutely no idea how hard you were beaten in an English grammar school if you repeatedly failed to display accurate grammar and punctuation. I'm friends on Facebook with half of the kids who were in my form, and their standard of writing is literally perfect compared to the halfwits our schools churn out today.

 

[Pogo]

I think it's a combination of schools focusing on other topics, and the technology that leads to some laziness. People used to do long math in their heads, and then we had the calculator. I really overlook the majority of it, but there is one that usually catches my eye...when someone uses "that" instead of "who", such as: I was talking to the guy that bagged my groceries." Anyway, as a former first grade teacher, I encouraged my students not to get hung up on spelling and grammar in the first stages of the writing process, because I didn't want them to be inhibited. We'd then work on the "sloppy copies" and use it to learn about the editing process. Some of the best writers probably have editors who are amazed at simple mistakes that need to be corrected. Even though we're all adults here, I've only picked on one person here for her writing style...and TM deserved it!! Oh, and that fucking idiot who used to post in multiple colors...refused to read that bullshit.

Far as I remember the only poster I pick on for writing style is Flanders -- just because he goes out of his way to pump his fonts up real big as if what he has to say is more important. I hate that.

 

[g5000]

It's called the "dumbing down" of America. Seems like these days schools teach everything except reading, writing, and arithmetic. Think it's bad now? In 10 years it will be much worse.

Common Core is a joke. It's purpose is to make the underachievers look better instead of rewarding those who are achievers. It's purpose is to lower standards.

Actually it raises standards. When the local school district here went over to Common Core, they sent notices home to all the parents to expect their kids' report cards to show a radical drop in grades since Common Core was harder.

People who drank the piss about Common Core being the devil's tool are the idiots. The Right was crazy in love with Common Core until Obama said he liked it, too.

 

[shart_attack]

Here's a thread title I thought we might get a kick out of — err, a thread out of which we might get a kick (if you're of the opinion that sentences shouldn't end in prepositions):

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/368167-women-comments-how-handsome-president-44-is.html

Note the strikingly astounding display of subject-verb agreement in the thread title — penned by a figure, which, oddly enough as it were, has been on this very thread talking about good grammar.

Gee whiz.

[MENTION=44683]Pennywise[/MENTION]

 

[Pogo]

Here's a thread title I thought we might get a kick out of — err, a thread out of which we might get a kick (if you're of the opinion that sentences shouldn't end in prepositions):

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/368167-women-comments-how-handsome-president-44-is.html

Note the strikingly astounding display of subject-verb agreement in the thread title — penned by a figure, which, oddly enough as it were, has been on this very thread talking about good grammar.

Gee whiz.

[MENTION=44683]Pennywise[/MENTION]

Is is a (linking) verb, not a preposition. Even if it were and there were such a directive, how would it be phrased? "Woman comments on how handsome is the President"?

Akchooly if I were editing I'd say the only thing he left out was a preposition, that being "on/upon" -- "woman comments on how handsome..."

The idea of not ending in a preposition isn't a valid grammatical rule anyway; it was an attempt to foist Latin grammar rules on English, up with which we need not have put.

 

[shart_attack]

Here's a thread title I thought we might get a kick out of — err, a thread out of which we might get a kick (if you're of the opinion that sentences shouldn't end in prepositions):

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/368167-women-comments-how-handsome-president-44-is.html

Note the strikingly astounding display of subject-verb agreement in the thread title — penned by a figure, which, oddly enough as it were, has been on this very hread talking about good grammar.

Gee whiz.

Is is a verb, not a preposition.

Read the opening sentence again, and tell me: What's the sentence-ending preposition here, teach, hmmf?

Here's a thread title I thought we might get a kick out of.

Even if it were and there were such a directive, how would it be phrased? "Woman comments on how handsome is the President"?

Yeah. That's how subject-verb agreement in the English language works, teach.

Woman comments.

Women comment.

Akchooly if I were editing I'd say the only thing he left out was a preposition, that being "on/upon" -- "woman comments on how handsome..."

I guess we should be glad that you're not teaching English to our children, then. Just sayin'.

The idea of not ending in a preposition isn't a valid grammatical rule anyway; it was an attempt to foist Latin grammar rules on English, up with which we need not have put.

Most purists think it sounds better — the term purist's denoting someone who actually knows the subject matter.

 

[Pogo]

Here's a thread title I thought we might get a kick out of — err, a thread out of which we might get a kick (if you're of the opinion that sentences shouldn't end in prepositions):

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/368167-women-comments-how-handsome-president-44-is.html

Note the strikingly astounding display of subject-verb agreement in the thread title — penned by a figure, which, oddly enough as it were, has been on this very hread talking about good grammar.

Gee whiz.

Is is a verb, not a preposition.

Read the opening sentence again, and tell me: What's the sentence-ending preposition here, teach, hmmf?

Here's a thread title I thought we might get a kick out of.

Maybe then you should be less ambiguous on whether you're referring to the link or to your own post. Dammit Jim, I'm an editor, not a mindreader.

Yeah. That's how subject-verb agreement in the English language works, teach.

Woman comments.

Women comment.

Correct. But I didn't touch on that.

Akchooly if I were editing I'd say the only thing he left out was a preposition, that being "on/upon" -- "woman comments on how handsome..."

I guess we should be glad that you're not teaching English to our children, then. Just sayin'.

You don't think it needs a preposition?

What about "they scored a couple runs"? Does it not need an of?

The idea of not ending in a preposition isn't a valid grammatical rule anyway; it was an attempt to foist Latin grammar rules on English, up with which we need not have put.

Most purists think it sounds better — the term purist's denoting someone who actually knows the subject matter.

Purists don't belong in linguistics. They don't have a case here anyway. Pun intended.

 

[shart_attack]

Is is a verb, not a preposition.

Read the opening sentence again, and tell me: What's the sentence-ending preposition here, teach, hmmf?

Here's a thread title I thought we might get a kick out of.

Maybe then you should be less ambiguous on whether you're referring to the link or to your own post. Dammit Jim, I'm an editor, not a mindreader.

Yeah. That's how subject-verb agreement in the English language works, teach.

Woman comments.

Women comment.

Correct. But I didn't touch on that.

Umm, teach: Quo vadis?

In the first paragraph of post #126, you said:

Is is a (linking) verb, not a preposition. Even if it were and there were such a directive, how would it be phrased? "Woman comments on how handsome is the President"?

You don't think it needs a preposition?

What about "they scored a couple runs"? Does it not need an of?

I thought we were talking about sentences ending in prepositions.

But yeah: in addition to its being in dire need of proper subject-verb agreement, Mr. Spiffy's thread there is clearly, egregiously in need of a preposition, too — to make it read:

"Women comment on how handsome the president is."

The idea of not ending in a preposition isn't a valid grammatical rule anyway; it was an attempt to foist Latin grammar rules on English, up with which we need not have put.

Most purists think it sounds better — the term purist's denoting someone who actually knows the subject matter.

Purists don't belong in linguistics. They don't have a case here anyway. Pun intended.

Yeah. Reckon I'd say that, too — if I had a pair of threes to put down against a Royal Flush.

Whoooooooooooooooooooooosh, Pogsy.

 

[Unkotare]

I guess we should be glad that you're not teaching English to our children, then. Just sayin'.

He never misses a chance to make an ass of himself.

 

[Unkotare]

Here's a thread title I thought we might get a kick out of — err, a thread out of which we might get a kick (if you're of the opinion that sentences shouldn't end in prepositions):

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/368167-women-comments-how-handsome-president-44-is.html

Note the strikingly astounding display of subject-verb agreement in the thread title — penned by a figure, which, oddly enough as it were, has been on this very thread talking about good grammar.

Gee whiz.

[MENTION=44683]Pennywise[/MENTION]

Is is a (linking) verb, not a preposition. Even if it were and there were such a directive, how would it be phrased? "Woman comments on how handsome is the President"?

Akchooly if I were editing I'd say the only thing he left out was a preposition, that being "on/upon" -- "woman comments on how handsome..."

The idea of not ending in a preposition isn't a valid grammatical rule anyway; it was an attempt to foist Latin grammar rules on English, up with which we need not have put.

You're such a ridiculous buffoon. Every time you try to put on airs, you just expose yourself more and more.

 

[Unkotare]

Purists don't belong in linguistics.

How the hell would you know?

 

[Unkotare]

Dammit Jim, I'm an editor, not a mindreader [sic].

I really don't think you're either one.

 

[Pogo]

Correct. But I didn't touch on that.

Umm, teach: Quo vadis?

In the first paragraph of post #126, you said:

Is is a (linking) verb, not a preposition. Even if it were and there were such a directive, how would it be phrased? "Woman comments on how handsome is the President"?

Riiight....

So what's your point? Woman = singular; comments = singular. Not a conflict, and wasn't the point anyway.

I thought we were talking about sentences ending in prepositions.

That's where you started -- but the comment above directly followed this:

Akchooly if I were editing I'd say the only thing he left out was a preposition, that being "on/upon" -- "woman comments on how handsome..."

-- to which you protested being glad I wasn't teaching English (which is an assumption on your part anyway) strongly implying you disagree with that preposition proposition.
And which would have been clearer if you hadn't excised it out of the quote so it looked like a reference to something else altogether.

Is this shit hard to follow or sump'm? Just take 'em in order. And don't remove quotes that are vital to the point.

But yeah: in addition to its being in dire need of proper subject-verb agreement, Mr. Spiffy's thread there is clearly, egregiously in need of a preposition, too — to make it read:

"Women comment on how handsome the president is."

--- Which is exactly what I said in the first place.

So now you DO agree.

'Scuse me for a moment.....

​

Most purists think it sounds better — the term purist's denoting someone who actually knows the subject matter.

Purists don't belong in linguistics. They don't have a case here anyway. Pun intended.

Yeah. Reckon I'd say that, too — if I had a pair of threes to put down against a Royal Flush.

Whoooooooooooooooooooooosh, Pogsy.

The pun was "case". Get it? Hypothetical case/grammatical case double entendre? Um, neeeever mind.

"They don't have a case" means they have no basis. It's a syntactical rule in Latin -- not English. Therefore it has no justification. While I understand "think it sounds better" is a rock-solid base of reasoning (<<<< SARCASM ALERT), it amounts to style, not grammar. Anyway what you started with was the idea of a prohibition of a terminating preposition. Not "it would sound better". And that prohibition has no basis. It's misapplied.

Sheeeeeesh.

 

[Unkotare]

Report: How Grammar Influences Your Income - Forbes

 

[Unkotare]

I Don't Tolerate Poor Grammar - Forbes

 

[Unkotare]

Is poor grammar affecting your career? | News.com.au

 

[shart_attack]

Correct. But I didn't touch on that.

Umm, teach: Quo vadis?

In the first paragraph of post #126, you said:

Riiight....

So what's your point?

I have made my point(s) again and again and again and again in this thread, Pogo.

The fact that you continue to ask me to make them again says a lot more about your understanding of the English language than it does mine.

Who understands the language — you or me? Easy to see, if you read the entirety of this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/357103-misuse-a-homophone-in-a-sentence.html

I'm not taking any more of your troll bait, Pogo. And I'm damn sure glad you were never my English teacher.

 

[Pogo]

Umm, teach: Quo vadis?

In the first paragraph of post #126, you said:

Riiight....

So what's your point?

I have made my point(s) again and again and again and again in this thread, Pogo.

The fact that you continue to ask me to make them again says a lot more about your understanding of the English language than it does mine.

Who understands the language — you or me? Easy to see, if you read the entirety of this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/357103-misuse-a-homophone-in-a-sentence.html

I'm not taking any more of your troll bait, Pogo. And I'm damn sure glad you were never my English teacher.

Had I been, you might not have made this boner.



You gotta get over this inferiority complex, boi.

 

[Unkotare]

The standards have been falling to the point where esl foreigners often can speak our native language better than we.

What one types here doesn't have to be formal and grammatically perfect, but one should strive to get as close to perfect as possible. There's no excuse at all for incorrect spelling when spell checking is available on all computers.

One's credibility suffers when one posts poorly. A well-written post is more likely to be accepted as factual.

.