Should polygamy be legalized? (Poll)

Should the Federal government pass a law to allow polygamy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 55.1%
  • No

    Votes: 22 44.9%

  • Total voters
    49
My profession would be IT, and web development, including graphic arts, with an emphasis on sales, and marketing. I have experience with business management and administration, mostly in retail. I've returned to Christ recently and I want to live for Him, carrying my cross daily. I'm going into the ministry, to establish Christian communities around the world.
You write at a professional level, in both content and grammar.
Congrats on entering the ministry. I thought you could be a priest or rabbi from your posts.
Looks like society is headed for a fall, huh? The good guys are losing.
 
I should warn those who attempt to communicate with the spirits of the dead, using radio scanners/ghost boxes that if you actually do it, you will be opening a portal into your home or wherever you're engaged in that type of "research". I had to deal with poltergeist activity in my home and other paranormal phenomena. The spirits that communicate through such devices are almost always fallen, demonic spirits, with bad intentions. This is why the Bible prohibits Christians to communicate with the dead or engage in necromancy. It brings dark forces into your life that can literally make you sick and kill you.

But if you're so stubborn and seeing others do it in a video, isn't enough for you to believe in the existence of spirits and a supernatural reality, then perhaps your atheistic, materialist, stubborn mind needs a wake-up call. A paradigm shift in your view of reality. The best way to experience the supernatural however isn't by dabbling in necromancy or spiritualism, it's by visiting a bible believing, spirit-filled Christian church. Christian congregations that believe the gifts of the spirit are still for today, will often experience the supernatural.
Demons or "lost souls"?
We don't allow demons or lost souls at Mass.
Never saw any supernatural phenomena in church.
But the church does have Exorcists and books on the subject.
I for one don't believe in "Ghost Boxes".
 
There will always be a tradeoff between freedom and accountability but each case is unique and should be decided on its merits. Addiction to any drug (or anything really) is a problem but banning everyone from having alcohol wasn't worth the price. Pedophilia is a danger to society so banning it is good. Gay marriage has not proven to be a danger to society so banning it is a negative. Coercing behavior should be a last resort, education and incentives would be much better. Riding a motorcycle without a helmet is much riskier than with. So is being fat or eating too much sugar. Where does it end?
Your response is a strawman because I never equated alcohol with hard drugs like meth or crack. Homosexual marriage is a perversion of nature and God's law so it certainly does carry destructive consequences for both those involved in the marriage and society in general. I've already detailed several ways in which homosexuality undermines public health and order, so I'm not going to repeat myself, despite you ignoring everything that I said.

Homosexuality should've never been declassified by the APA as being a sexual paraphilia disorder. The declassification was politically motivated and had nothing to do with good science.

Without recognizing the ultimate source and lawgiver of the laws of physics, logic, and self-evident moral truths, you reduce yourself to a meaningless chemical reaction. As the liver excretes its bile, your brain excretes you. Nothing is truly good or evil. There are no "shoulds" in your godless world, because everything amounts to a meaningless accident going nowhere, like a ship lost at sea.

Where do you godless secularists draw the line? There are so called "progressives" that argue that sexual relations between adults and children isn't necessary unhealthy or injurous to children. There are secularists now arguing for incest and even beastiality. The "beasties" argue that since humans don't ask animals permission to do this to them:



Why can't humans have sex with animals, even against their will? Humans raise animals in order to exploit them and often to eventually slaughter them, and this is done without consent of the animal. So if humans can subject animals to pain and suffering and even death, against their will, why can't humans have sex with animals without their consent? At least be consistent with your secular, atheistic morality. Tell me why in your estimation, beastiality is wrong, assuming you believe it is.

Also, tell me why sex between a 50-year-old father and his 23-year-old daughter is immoral, in your godless, meaningless universe. On what grounds do you prohibit it?
 
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"The State" just made that decision for us by legalizing gay "marriages".
Your arguments now are based on religious views, not how homo behavior isn't good for society. Pols just said LGBTQ shit is fine.
In an earlier post you mentioned a "covenant" with God. Is that part of the Jewish religion?
We know what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah don't we?
Looking forward, can God punish humans for "bad behaviors"?
Atheists don't believe that there is a God, so they don't have souls or any fear of punishment, here or in the hereafter.

It's absolutely wrong because God prohibits it, but one can make an argument from science or just simple logic, as to why certain patterns of behavior are wrong. I believe polygamy is wrong today because God prohibits it under the new covenant and if it were not prohibited, it could only function properly within the bounds established by God. Polygamy in a secular society I believe would be harmful. As Christians, we don't practice polygamy because it's prohibited for us by God, under the new covenant, in Christ.
 
Demons or "lost souls"?
We don't allow demons or lost souls at Mass.
Never saw any supernatural phenomena in church.
But the church does have Exorcists and books on the subject.
I for one don't believe in "Ghost Boxes".

You don't believe it, yet they exist. This is real, I confirmed it for myself:





Direct communication without a scanner:







You can even get an image of them using this method:

GALLERY 2020(P5)TCI|Top Transimagens de Além da Vida|Spirit/ Paranormal/Ghost/Fantasma|Simone Santos


Spirits are real, and whoever tells you otherwise is wrong. I'm not going to argue the issue with anyone, I just show them the footage and if they insist that spirits don't exist, they can conduct their own experiments. I was a Christian when I was young, in my teens and then I left the faith and became an atheist. What brought me back to Jesus, was an encounter with a demon. I established contact and I learned that evil spirits are real. That led me back to God and Christ.





 
You don't believe it, yet they exist. This is real, I confirmed it for myself:





Direct communication without a scanner:







You can even get an image of them using this method:

GALLERY 2020(P5)TCI|Top Transimagens de Além da Vida|Spirit/ Paranormal/Ghost/Fantasma|Simone Santos


Spirits are real, and whoever tells you otherwise is wrong. I'm not going to argue the issue with anyone, I just show them the footage and if they insist that spirits don't exist, they can conduct their own experiments. I was a Christian when I was young, in my teens and then I left the faith and became an atheist. What brought me back to Jesus, was an encounter with a demon. I established contact and I learned that evil spirits are real. That led me back to God and Christ.



So, how was Hillary? Was she as bad as most of us believed her to be?
 
Because we should be a country who has citizens with morals.

A married man is legally allowed to have a wife and mistress.
However, if he tries to officially form a partnership with both…..he breaks the law

What consenting adults do should not be a concern of the Government
 
It's absolutely wrong because God prohibits it, but one can make an argument from science or just simple logic, as to why certain patterns of behavior are wrong. I believe polygamy is wrong today because God prohibits it under the new covenant and if it were not prohibited, it could only function properly within the bounds established by God. Polygamy in a secular society I believe would be harmful. As Christians, we don't practice polygamy because it's prohibited for us by God, under the new covenant, in Christ.
If you can find a direct quote where polygamy is "prohibited" by God I'd appreciate a link.
It seems that polygamy was biblically allowed for widows to marry into the family of their deceased hubby so they would have some support. Jesus encouraged monogamous marriages, but stopped short of calling polygamy sinful.
 
You don't believe it, yet they exist. This is real, I confirmed it for myself:

Spirits are real, and whoever tells you otherwise is wrong. I'm not going to argue the issue with anyone, I just show them the footage and if they insist that spirits don't exist, they can conduct their own experiments. I was a Christian when I was young, in my teens and then I left the faith and became an atheist. What brought me back to Jesus, was an encounter with a demon. I established contact and I learned that evil spirits are real. That led me back to God and Christ.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" is an old truism.
Catholics summarize their beliefs in the Nicene Creed
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.


So even if there are spooks and demons, if I keep ignoring them they ignore me.

So what's the difference between demons and lost souls?

I know which political party the demons like.
Too bad the democrats don't have souls to lose, or they would try to live better lives.
I'd double dare some of the atheists on the USMB to get a "ghost box" and test their thesis against your antithesis, but I don't want Pandora's Box opened.
 
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"There are no atheists in foxholes" is an old truism.
Catholics summarize their beliefs in the Nicene Creed
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.


So even if there are spooks and demons, if I keep ignoring them they ignore me.

So what's the difference between demons and lost souls?

I know which political party the demons like.
Too bad the democrats don't have souls to lose, or they would try to live better lives.
I'd double dare some of the atheists on the USMB to get a "ghost box" and test their thesis against your antithesis, but I don't want Pandora's Box opened.

They are lost souls. All demons aren't fallen angels, they're also lost human souls. Demons like both the democrats and the republicans, both are two sides of the same turd, serving the same vested interests at the expense of the American people. Both parties are in the pockets of the bankers, the military industrial complex, the fossil fuel industry, the big pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies, the....etc. Both parties, in the federal, state and local governments, are all in the pockets of the rich and powerful, serving their interests at the expense of everybody else.
 
If you can find a direct quote where polygamy is "prohibited" by God I'd appreciate a link.
It seems that polygamy was biblically allowed for widows to marry into the family of their deceased hubby so they would have some support. Jesus encouraged monogamous marriages, but stopped short of calling polygamy sinful.

It depends how one interprets the Bible and the writings of Paul. A good argument can be made from the Bible that polygamy is still permitted. However, the godless don't follow God's law so if they adopted polygamy, they would most probably be engaged in practices that are sinful like lesbian sex..etc. That atheist polygamous husband would most likely be having sex with all of his wives at once, or they would even be engaged in polyamorous relationships, swinging, swapping wives with other husbands, orgies..etc. God's law prohibits all of that.

Polygamy that is well regulated and temporarily used as a tool, in a Christian community, in order to quickly increase the population, may be a good idea. It's hard if not impossible to argue against polygamy within a Biblical context, for the reason that you just cited. God permitted it and there is no explicit prohibition against it.
 
Your response is a strawman because I never equated alcohol with hard drugs like meth or crack.
What makes one drug 'hard' and another 'soft'? Alcohol is a rare example of a drug being legal, then illegal, and then legal again.

Homosexual marriage is a perversion of nature and God's law so it certainly does carry destructive consequences for both those involved in the marriage and society in general. I've already detailed several ways in which homosexuality undermines public health and order, so I'm not going to repeat myself, despite you ignoring everything that I said.
I'm sure I haven't read everything you've written. Did God make some people gay and some not? I really doubt God cares if societies oppress gays or not at least there seems no evidence either way. Got any evidence for destructive consequences for both those involved in the gay marriage and society in general? And do we want one religion's interpretation of their scripture to be the law of the land?

Homosexuality should've never been declassified by the APA as being a sexual paraphilia disorder. The declassification was politically motivated and had nothing to do with good science.
I think it is you assertion that is politically motivated. Or do you have some science to dispute this science?

Without recognizing the ultimate source and lawgiver of the laws of physics, logic, and self-evident moral truths, you reduce yourself to a meaningless chemical reaction. As the liver excretes its bile, your brain excretes you. Nothing is truly good or evil. There are no "shoulds" in your godless world, because everything amounts to a meaningless accident going nowhere, like a ship lost at sea.
The world is not how we wish it to be.

Where do you godless secularists draw the line? There are so called "progressives" that argue that sexual relations between adults and children isn't necessary unhealthy or injurous to children. There are secularists now arguing for incest and even beastiality. The "beasties" argue that since humans don't ask animals permission to do this to them:

Why can't humans have sex with animals, even against their will? Humans raise animals in order to exploit them and often to eventually slaughter them, and this is done without consent of the animal. So if humans can subject animals to pain and suffering and even death, against their will, why can't humans have sex with animals without their consent? At least be consistent with your secular, atheistic morality. Tell me why in your estimation, beastiality is wrong, assuming you believe it is.
Children and animals are not capable of giving consent and therefore sexual relations with either is a form of abuse. There are and should be laws against the abuse of any creature.

Also, tell me why sex between a 50-year-old father and his 23-year-old daughter is immoral, in your godless, meaningless universe. On what grounds do you prohibit it?
I would not prohibit it. They both are capable of making their own decisions even if they are decisions the neither myself or the majority of others in our culture would approve of. If what they do is 'godless', He is perfectly capable of punishing them, I don't have to.
 
Polygamy is impractical. Marry the person of age that you want. Pretty simple. Slippery slope arguments are used when there is nothing left and debaters are out of ideas. Can you marry a tree? What about a garden rake? That will be next. Right wingers are dumb and have poor foundational values to debate from.
 

What makes one drug 'hard' and another 'soft'? Alcohol is a rare example of a drug being legal, then illegal, and then legal again.


I'm sure I haven't read everything you've written. Did God make some people gay and some not? I really doubt God cares if societies oppress gays or not at least there seems no evidence either way. Got any evidence for destructive consequences for both those involved in the gay marriage and society in general? And do we want one religion's interpretation of their scripture to be the law of the land?


I think it is you assertion that is politically motivated. Or do you have some science to dispute this science?


The world is not how we wish it to be.


Children and animals are not capable of giving consent and therefore sexual relations with either is a form of abuse. There are and should be laws against the abuse of any creature.


I would not prohibit it. They both are capable of making their own decisions even if they are decisions the neither myself or the majority of others in our culture would approve of. If what they do is 'godless', He is perfectly capable of punishing them, I don't have to.

What makes one drug 'hard' and another 'soft'?

Its immediate incapacitating effects upon the person who consumes it. Its lack of moderate-use potential or high frequency of abuse. Its toxicity and lethality. There are substances like alcohol that can be abused and can even cause death, but their moderate-use potential is manageable and they're not as toxic as hard drugs like meth or crack are. I believe the use of hard narcotics should be decriminalized but its sale should be made a capital crime. Anyone who is selling crack or heroin. etc, should get life in prison without parole or be sentenced to death.

Alcohol is a rare example of a drug being legal, then illegal, and then legal again.

Yeah...

I'm sure I haven't read everything you've written.

I directed those words at those who respond to my posts, ignoring what I said and asking me questions for which the answer is already given. I don't remember ever interacting with you, so that doesn't apply to you, at the moment.

Did God make some people gay and some not?

Where is the evidence that people are born gay? Even if that were the case, the fact someone is born a certain way doesn't imply God did it or that the person's condition justifies their destructive behavior. God established a universe where life contrary to the forces of entropy, struggles, and fights to survive and establish order. There is an end or purpose for all of this, namely the communion of man with God.

I really doubt God cares if societies oppress gays or not at least there seems no evidence either way.

Stopping homosexuals from publicly displaying and expressing their sexual disorder and depravities, as they do in their "pride parades", isn't oppression. To allow homosexuals to continue contaminating and perverting the minds of our youth, and corrupting society's views on sex and marriage, is oppression.


Got any evidence for destructive consequences for both those involved in the gay marriage and society in general?

Yeah:





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photo_2022-07-10_19-38-39.jpg


"GAY AND BISEXUAL MEN ARE THE POPULATION MOST DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTED BY HIV IN THE UNITED STATES" CDC:
"Men who have sex with men (MSM) are a well-documented group at elevated risk for HIV infection.1 Indeed, estimates suggest that 9% to 27% of gay and bisexual men and MSM in the United States are currently living with HIV infection.25 Further, recently released statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicate that the rate of new HIV diagnoses among MSM is more than 44 times that of heterosexual men.6 Although mortality risk has decreased substantially since the introduction of highly active antiretroviral treatment (HAART) around 1996,710 HIV infection remains a potentially fatal disease.11 In addition, population-based surveys over the last decade have consistently documented elevated risk for suicide attempts among gay and bisexual men compared with heterosexual men.1223 And recently, a study24 reported greatly elevated suicide mortality rates among Danish men in registered same-gender domestic partnerships. These findings suggest that men with minority sexual orientation may experience elevated risk for premature death from multiple causes."
Source:

"LGBTQ individuals are more than twice as likely as heterosexual men and women to have a mental health disorder in their lifetime. They are 2.5 times more likely to experience depression, anxiety, and substance misuse compared with heterosexual individuals."
Source:

" The following statistics from Mental Health America demonstrate the concerning mental health challenges facing the LGBTQIA+ community:


  • LGBTQIA+ teens are six times more likely to experience symptoms of depression than non-LGBTQIA+ identifying teens.
  • LGBTQIA+ youth are more than twice as likely to feel suicidal and more than four times as likely to attempt suicide than heterosexual youth.
  • Forty-eight percent of transgender adults report that they have considered suicide in the last year, compared to four percent of the overall U.S. population. "


Source: Why Does the LGBTQIA+ Community Suffer from Poor Mental Health at Higher Rates?


Same in Sweden and other egalitarian societies:
"Representative survey data also point to widespread psychological distress among LGBT individuals. LGB respondents in Sweden are nearly ten times as likely to have attempted suicide in the year preceding the survey compared to heterosexual people [Figure 1.14]. Lower mental health among LGBT people at least partly flows from stigma. By living in a social environment that largely views heterosexuality and congruence between sex at birth and gender identity as the only way of being normal, LGBT people experience stress not undergone by heterosexual and cisgender individuals."

Source:
People inherently know that men having sex with other men, is abnormal and unhealthy. You're not going to admit that, but it's quite obvious and self-evident for most reasonable people. It's much better for men to have a natural, healthy attraction for women, because when such men have sex with a woman, they create life. They spread their genes and perpetuate the human race, creating a new generation of people. They're not inseminating another man's rectum, their sperm isn't swimming up the poop hole of another man to fertilize feces, but rather making its way up a uterus, to fertilize an egg attached to a woman. That's healthy and normal.

You're cursing, damning these children to a life of dangerous hormone treatments and surgeries, depriving them of developing a healthy attraction for the opposite sex, and consigning them to a life without offspring. Men having sex with each other doesn't create life.

You also ignore the spiritual component of homosexuality, which is highly influenced by evil spirits. Spirits exist:






Without a radio scanner:




In the following video, at 2:55, her deceased son (Frank, Frankie, "Frankie Boy") begins speaking with the exact same voice he had when alive. The mother attests to this fact after Frank responds. She's amazed at how the voice is exactly like her son's, even after he's dead! This was done on national television in Luxembourg back in the 1980s by an ITC (Instrumental TransCom) researcher named Hans Otto Konig .


Same case here. 2:40, the mother is speaking with her child, Angie, and she admits it's the same voice.



I conducted my own research and confirmed this phenomenon for myself. It's real. Spirits exist and those entities attach themselves to people who think and behave a certain way. Some spirits are from heaven, we call them "angels", good spirits that are allied with God, the light, the ultimate good. There are also evil, demonic spirits that are allied with the forces of darkness and chaos, who hate humans and feast on their lusts and perversions, depravities, and nihilism. etc. You can deny it all you want, but it's nonetheless true.

Here is Hans Otto Konig, communicating with a spirit one on one:


And do we want one religion's interpretation of their scripture to be the law of the land?


Definitely. Born again, spirit-filled Christians should be in charge. Atheists, secularists, social liberals/libertines, and crony capitalists in the pockets of the military-industrial complex and other big corporations, aren't fit to govern or have any government position. The sooner genuine Christians rise up and take power the better.

I think it is you assertion that is politically motivated. Or do you have some science to dispute this science?

Just did, just take a look at what I just wrote a few minutes ago. Science also tells us the human race is sexually binary. Male and female. Males are males and females are females. Men aren't women, and women aren't men. See how easy that was? Simple.

The world is not how we wish it to be.

It could be much better.


Children and animals are not capable of giving consent and therefore sexual relations with either is a form of abuse. There are and should be laws against the abuse of any creature.

Do you believe in God? Without God, what you just said is just your opinion. There is no absolute authority that establishes what you just said as true. Without God, there are no "shoulds", or moral obligations.

What is odd is that you as a secularist, assuming that's what you are, claim that people shouldn't have sex with animals, because they're unable to consent. Do animals consent to be slaughtered and eaten? Are you a vegan? Do you eat big macs and pepperoni pizza? Did the cow that was slaughtered for your big mac or the pig that was killed for the pepperoni on your pizza, consent to be eaten?

I don't have sex with animals, because it's self-evident that, that is sick. Perverted. And of course, above all, God prohibits it.

I would not prohibit it. They both are capable of making their own decisions even if they are decisions the neither myself or the majority of others in our culture would approve of. If what they do is 'godless', He is perfectly capable of punishing them, I don't have to.

You're a good example of why godless people shouldn't be in positions of authority. Parents should never see their children as potential sex partners. That's dangerous for children and it's unhealthy for society. People have a natural, healthy, God-given repulsion against sexualizing their relationships with parents, grandparents, siblings, and their offspring. It's a natural disposition, to reject sex with one's close relatives, and for very good reason. The primary reason why we Christians are against it, is because God prohibits it, period.

Are you also for sex in public? Again, you're just revealing why only God-fearing people, especially Christians should be in charge, not godless secularists. When I say "God-fearing", it implies respect, and reverence for God. A healthy fear of divine authority and judgment is good.
 
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They are lost souls. All demons aren't fallen angels, they're also lost human souls. Demons like both the democrats and the republicans, both are two sides of the same turd, serving the same vested interests at the expense of the American people. Both parties are in the pockets of the bankers, the military industrial complex, the fossil fuel industry, the big pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies, the....etc. Both parties, in the federal, state and local governments, are all in the pockets of the rich and powerful, serving their interests at the expense of everybody else.
Render unto Caesar...
That's just the way the world works.
You really a communist?
 
It depends how one interprets the Bible and the writings of Paul. A good argument can be made from the Bible that polygamy is still permitted. However, the godless don't follow God's law so if they adopted polygamy, they would most probably be engaged in practices that are sinful like lesbian sex..etc. That atheist polygamous husband would most likely be having sex with all of his wives at once, or they would even be engaged in polyamorous relationships, swinging, swapping wives with other husbands, orgies..etc. God's law prohibits all of that.

Polygamy that is well regulated and temporarily used as a tool, in a Christian community, in order to quickly increase the population, may be a good idea. It's hard if not impossible to argue against polygamy within a Biblical context, for the reason that you just cited. God permitted it and there is no explicit prohibition against it.
Sanctioned polygamy is okay?!
Hunter Biden must be Jewish! He follows the Old Hebrew Law that says he has to take his brothers widow as one of his wives and bang the crap out of her. <g>

OK, so if you're keeping score, polygamy just came off the taboo list.
Still on God's taboo list are:
1. Pedophilia ("better to tie a millstone...")
2. Bestiality
iu
LOL!!
3. Homosexuality
 
Now that the government approved gay marriages, what's the next taboo we can fix?

Polygamy
Polygamy is the practice of marrying multiple spouses. When a man is married to more than one wife at the same time, sociologists call this polygyny. When a woman is married to more than one husband at a time, it is called polyandry. In contrast to polygamy, monogamy is marriage consisting of only two parties.Wikipedia

Why not?

As long as you can pay for the multiple marriages and do not live off the taxpayer backs like the FLDS does!
 
Render unto Caesar...
That's just the way the world works.
You really a communist?

Yes of course. I'm a Christian socialist/communist. Let me anticipate your follow up criticism and questions:

How can you be a Christian and a communist? Aren't these two mutually exclusive?

No, why? I could ask, why a Christian would be a capitalist or a defender of capitalism. Millions of Christians identify as capitalists or defend it, and yet if a Christian is a socialist or communist, that supposedly is a mistake. Maybe capitalism is the mistake? Hmmm.

Adam Smith, Ludwig Von Mises, Milton Friedman, Ayn Rand, all of these iconic figures in "free market" capitalism, were atheists. They weren't born again, spirit-filled Christians. Adam Smith was a critic of Christianity and yet we have all of these born-again Christians, swearing by the name of Adam Smith and capitalism. Amazing.

Aren't communists violent and hateful?

No more than capitalists and their cronies. There's a lot of false propaganda and just outright lies about communism in the West. If you want to resort to death-toll arguments in an attempt to invalidate socialism, you're not in a very good position, because capitalism has a mountain of dead, rotting corpses under its bloody, stinking feet. The defenders of capitalism have no moral high-ground upon which to stand and point fingers at communism. When we factor in the deaths caused by colonialism, slavery, imperialism, and the insatiable, capitalist pursuit of profits, it numbers in the hundreds of millions, above socialism.

---------------

It's amazing how American Christians will support the secular state of Israel, with all of its secularism, gay pride parades, wholesale abortion and bloody history while condemning socialism. The founder of zionism in the 1800s, Theodore Herzl, was an atheist. The first Jewish settlers in Israel, in the late 1800s and early 20th century, were Jewish communists. They established the kibutzim (communes) and cleared the holy land of its swamps. Thousands of Jewish communists, in Israel, died of malaria, trying to clear the swamps, turning that land into arable, fertile soil.

More, the first three prime ministers of Israel were atheists and socialist-Marxists. So God can use whoever he wants to use, especially when Christians aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing.
 
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