Should polygamy be legalized? (Poll)

[alang1216]

What makes one drug 'hard' and another 'soft'?

Its immediate incapacitating effects upon the person who consumes it. Its lack of moderate-use potential or high frequency of abuse. Its toxicity and lethality. There are substances like alcohol that can be abused and can even cause death, but their moderate-use potential is manageable and they're not as toxic as hard drugs like meth or crack are. I believe the use of hard narcotics should be decriminalized but its sale should be made a capital crime. Anyone who is selling crack or heroin. etc, should get life in prison without parole or be sentenced to death.

All recreational drugs should be sold by legitimate venders to ensure product safety. Just look at illegal opioids laced with fentanyl.

Did God make some people gay and some not?

Where is the evidence that people are born gay? Even if that were the case, the fact someone is born a certain way doesn't imply God did it or that the person's condition justifies their destructive behavior. God established a universe where life contrary to the forces of entropy, struggles, and fights to survive and establish order. There is an end or purpose for all of this, namely the communion of man with God.

Most researchers who study sexual orientation think that both genetic and environmental factors play a role. Sorry but I don't intend to live by the rules of your religion.

I really doubt God cares if societies oppress gays or not at least there seems no evidence either way.

Stopping homosexuals from publicly displaying and expressing their sexual disorder and depravities, as they do in their "pride parades", isn't oppression. To allow homosexuals to continue contaminating and perverting the minds of our youth, and corrupting society's views on sex and marriage, is oppression.

You don't want your kids exposed to pride parades, don't take your kids to them.

Got any evidence for destructive consequences for both those involved in the gay marriage and society in general?

Yeah:

You don't want your kids exposed to pride parades, don't take your kids to them.

And do we want one religion's interpretation of their scripture to be the law of the land?
Definitely. Born again, spirit-filled Christians should be in charge. Atheists, secularists, social liberals/libertines, and crony capitalists in the pockets of the military-industrial complex and other big corporations, aren't fit to govern or have any government position. The sooner genuine Christians rise up and take power the better.

Substitute 'Muslim' for 'Christian' in the above you could be the Taliban.

I think it is you assertion that is politically motivated. Or do you have some science to dispute this science?

Just did, just take a look at what I just wrote a few minutes ago. Science also tells us the human race is sexually binary. Male and female. Males are males and females are females. Men aren't women, and women aren't men. See how easy that was? Simple.

By science you mean biology but psychology is also a science. Our brains are much more important than our bodies.

The world is not how we wish it to be.

It could be much better.

Nonsense.

Children and animals are not capable of giving consent and therefore sexual relations with either is a form of abuse. There are and should be laws against the abuse of any creature.

Do you believe in God? Without God, what you just said is just your opinion. There is no absolute authority that establishes what you just said as true. Without God, there are no "shoulds", or moral obligations.

Whether I believe in God or not does not change the fact that there is no absolute morality. Do we turn the other cheek or do we take an eye for an eye? Do we love our enemies or do we make war? Should women be equal members of a church or should they remain silent?

What is odd is that you as a secularist, assuming that's what you are, claim that people shouldn't have sex with animals, because they're unable to consent. Do animals consent to be slaughtered and eaten? Are you a vegan? Do you eat big macs and pepperoni pizza? Did the cow that was slaughtered for your big mac or the pig that was killed for the pepperoni on your pizza, consent to be eaten?

I don't have sex with animals, because it's self-evident that, that is sick. Perverted. And of course, above all, God prohibits it.

I don't have sex with animals, because it's self-evident that, that is sick. Perverted. Those are reasons enough.

I would not prohibit it. They both are capable of making their own decisions even if they are decisions the neither myself or the majority of others in our culture would approve of. If what they do is 'godless', He is perfectly capable of punishing them, I don't have to.

You're a good example of why godless people shouldn't be in positions of authority. Parents should never see their children as potential sex partners. That's dangerous for children and it's unhealthy for society. People have a natural, healthy, God-given repulsion against sexualizing their relationships with parents, grandparents, siblings, and their offspring. It's a natural disposition, to reject sex with one's close relatives, and for very good reason. The primary reason why we Christians are against it, is because God prohibits it, period.

I agree they shouldn't do it, I just don't agree it is my place or yours to make them stop unless there are other minor children that may be adversely affected. If God prohibits it, He can punish them. You're not God - Matthew 7:1

Are you also for sex in public? Again, you're just revealing why only God-fearing people, especially Christians should be in charge, not godless secularists. When I say "God-fearing", it implies respect, and reverence for God. A healthy fear of divine authority and judgment is good.

There have been many theocracies in history but none I'd want to live in. How about you?

 

[HeyNorm]

Polygamy is impractical. Marry the person of age that you want. Pretty simple. Slippery slope arguments are used when there is nothing left and debaters are out of ideas. Can you marry a tree? What about a garden rake? That will be next. Right wingers are dumb and have poor foundational values to debate from.

Polygamy is impractical? That’s the argument?

 

[Red Front]

All recreational drugs should be sold by legitimate venders to ensure product safety. Just look at illegal opioids laced with fentanyl.


Most researchers who study sexual orientation think that both genetic and environmental factors play a role. Sorry but I don't intend to live by the rules of your religion.


You don't want your kids exposed to pride parades, don't take your kids to them.


You don't want your kids exposed to pride parades, don't take your kids to them.


Substitute 'Muslim' for 'Christian' in the above you could be the Taliban.


By science you mean biology but psychology is also a science. Our brains are much more important than our bodies.


Nonsense.


Whether I believe in God or not does not change the fact that there is no absolute morality. Do we turn the other cheek or do we take an eye for an eye? Do we love our enemies or do we make war? Should women be equal members of a church or should they remain silent?


I don't have sex with animals, because it's self-evident that, that is sick. Perverted. Those are reasons enough.


I agree they shouldn't do it, I just don't agree it is my place or yours to make them stop unless there are other minor children that may be adversely affected. If God prohibits it, He can punish them. You're not God - Matthew 7:1


There have been many theocracies in history but none I'd want to live in. How about you?

You ignored a lot of what I wrote, including the scientific evidence showing how destructive homosexuality is to homosexuals and society in general.

You misquoted Matthew 7:1 by ripping it out of context:

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

That verse condemns hypocrisy, and bad judgment, not judgment. Christians are supposed to judge, correctly, and righteously. Notice, that the context of the judgment is also between brothers, most likely in a social setting, not at the level of government. A Christian magistrate must judge.

More, we don't need to be God to enforce His laws:

Mat_19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Rev 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

The body of Christ will eventually rule the nations with a rod of iron. Call us Christian "Taliban" that's fine. Call us whatever you want.

It's not as simple as "live and let live", when it comes to drugs, open homosexuality, and transgenderism, among other social ills, because just minding our own business and allowing others to do whatever they want, eventually hurts us and our loved ones. Our community's peace, security, health, and prosperity are undermined by the godless degenerates who are "doing whatever they want".

What is good is self-evident, and those who defend atheism, moral relativism, and nihilism, will be defeated. I believe a socialist Theocratic (Christocratic) society is the divine ideal. Such a nation can be a republic, under the authority of God and His laws. The godless will be ruled under the rod of iron. The only way the heathen should be governed.

 

[kyzr]

Yes of course. I'm a Christian socialist/communist. Let me anticipate your follow up criticism and questions:

How can you be a Christian and a communist? Aren't these two mutually exclusive?

No, why? I could ask, why a Christian would be a capitalist or a defender of capitalism. Millions of Christians identify as capitalists or defend it, and yet if a Christian is a socialist or communist, that supposedly is a mistake. Maybe capitalism is the mistake? Hmmm.

Adam Smith, Ludwig Von Mises, Milton Friedman, Ayn Rand, all of these iconic figures in "free market" capitalism, were atheists. They weren't born again, spirit-filled Christians. Adam Smith was a critic of Christianity and yet we have all of these born-again Christians, swearing by the name of Adam Smith and capitalism. Amazing.

Aren't communists violent and hateful?

No more than capitalists and their cronies. There's a lot of false propaganda and just outright lies about communism in the West. If you want to resort to death-toll arguments in an attempt to invalidate socialism, you're not in a very good position, because capitalism has a mountain of dead, rotting corpses under its bloody, stinking feet. The defenders of capitalism have no moral high-ground upon which to stand and point fingers at communism. When we factor in the deaths caused by colonialism, slavery, imperialism, and the insatiable, capitalist pursuit of profits, it numbers in the hundreds of millions, above socialism.

It's amazing how American Christians will support the secular state of Israel, with all of its secularism, gay pride parades, wholesale abortion and bloody history while condemning socialism. The founder of zionism in the 1800s, Theodore Herzl, was an atheist. The first Jewish settlers in Israel, in the late 1800s and early 20th century, were Jewish communists. They established the kibutzim (communes) and cleared the holy land of its swamps. Thousands of Jewish communists, in Israel, died of malaria, trying to clear the swamps, turning that land into arable, fertile soil.

More, the first three prime ministers of Israel were atheists and socialist-Marxists. So God can use whoever he wants to use, especially when Christians aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing.

I'll wait and see if PC (Political Chick) picks up the debate about communism. She's a very good debater.
Just looking at the economic track records, communism always fails miserably.

 

[lennypartiv]

What consenting adults do should not be a concern of the Government

Thank God Kavanaugh and Barrett disagree with you.

 

[Red Front]

I'll wait and see if PC (Political Chick) picks up the debate about communism. She's a very good debater.
Just looking at the economic track records, communism always fails miserably.

False, it's capitalism that always fails every few years and needs a socialist bailout from the government. The last socialist bailout was less than two years ago.

Before I go into the Bible, and show how socialism/communism is the divine ideal for God's angels and the earthly body of Christ, I will just address what you said from a historical perspective.

When did capitalism and its child, Republicanism, defeat the European monarchs and feudal lords? Did the mercantile class defeat the kings and queens, the nobility of Europe overnight, or did it take a few centuries? Did the merchant class defeat the kings in one decisive victory and swoop of the sword or did it take a few hundred years? Think and answer this question to yourself (not for me, but for you). Contemplate, consider.

The merchant class didn't defeat the royals and nobles of Europe until material conditions allowed them to become industrialists. Technology allowed the merchants to become powerful industrialists and this was the birth of the age of Republics. The defeat of monarchism in Europe, was under the heel of capitalist industrialization, leading to the creation of republics. For you to argue that because communism was unable to defeat capitalism in the 20th century, it won't in the 21st, or 22nd, is let's just say, bad thinking. You're not thinking this through.

The Soviet Union, was a very impressive attempt to establish communism at a national scale, at a time when there weren't any powerful computers, if any computers at all, much less the advanced automation that we have today.

How did the USSR begin? It began as a poor, under-industrialized, agrarian society, full of illiterate country bumpkins. A nation comprised mostly of peasants. Did Russia have its elite ruling class and oligarchs, a certain level of industry and academia, art..etc. Yes it did, but it was way behind Western Europe, a part of the world that had over 100 years of industrial development, ahead of Russia. As soon as the Bolsheviks, i.e. socialists, took the power away from the Tzar and the Russian ruling class, in 1917, a year didn't pass before it was invaded by the US and 14 other countries.

1918 - 8500 US Marines in Russia along with 14 other countries. ​

The attempt to stop the socialists in Russia, shortly after they seized power failed. Twenty years later, Soviet Russia was an industrial juggernaut reviling the United States. A world power. It didn't have to suffer the economic depression of the West, because its economy was based upon rational, central planning. The Soviet Union in the late 1930s, was an economic marvel, that even American economists were baffled by, due to how quickly it industrialized and grew. Then it was invaded by 4 million Nazi Germans. The USSR lost 28 million people in WW2. Nine million soldiers.

The Nazi German war machine invades the USSR with four million soldiers.​

The United States lost 460 thousand Americans, and that's a lot of people, but the Soviets lost 60 times that number. We are surrounded by two vast oceans on both sides of our country. Seven out of every ten Germans fighting in the war, were fighting in the Soviet Union. The Soviets lost much of their infrastructure, all of what they built from the 1920s to 1940, were either destroyed or damaged. It had to be rebuilt.

The Soviets didn't get any help from the USA or anyone else after the war. There was no "Marshal Plan" for the Russians as there was for Western capitalist-run Europe. They had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and rebuild their country. They did it by applying socialist central planning and in less than twelve years after the war, the USSR was a world superpower. They were launching rockets into space with cosmonauts.

The first satellite, the first living being (a dog) in space, the first man in space, the first woman in space, the first spacewalk, the first space docking between two spacecraft, the first space probes, the first, first, first....etc (they motivated the United States to get to the moon first). Before the Soviets did anything in space they built the first nuclear plant ("Soviet" means "worker's councils" or "people's councils").

Are you going to tell me with a straight face that the USSR was a joke, and didn't accomplish anything? They didn't have the Holy Spirit, they were simply applying the divine socialist principles of production. If you apply divine law or principles to your work, and your life, it doesn't matter if you're a Christian or not, you're going to benefit from it. How much more if you're a born-again, spirit-filled child of God?

The Soviets were the first to transplant human organs, the first to build nuclear electric plants, the first cell phones, the first lasers, the first LED lights, the first microwave ovens, the first compact personal computers for managers at factories..etc. Much of what you've learned about the USSR here in the West, is false propaganda. Lies. Some of it is true. The Soviets weren't angelic or saints. They had some serious flaws. But to pretend that it was all just poop. No, that's wrong.

Soviet Russia was encircled, bombed, invaded, and embargoed, by well-established and powerful capitalist-run countries, every single day of its existence. It was in a perpetual state of war, from its inception, against extremely well-equipped and organized capitalist-run powers. It nonetheless, remained a force to be reckoned with until it adopted Perestroika i.e. "market reforms", in order to placate the United States. They wanted to end the cold war and allocate their resources from defense to infrastructural development. They became war wary. Shell shocked.

They thought, "Give the US a little bit of what it wants, then we don't have to spend so much of our resources on the military". This way of thinking destroyed the USSR. Most if not all of the pictures of breadlines in the USSR are from the 1980s. Some of the ones online are from WW2, but almost all of them are from the 80s. Capitalism created the very worse breadlines in the USSR, without a shooting war.


OK, so now the Bible.

How did the first Christians under the authority of the twelve apostles organize their community?
Let's go to the Word:

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Act 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Act 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

There was no scarcity, no lack of goods, because they were truly as ONE. One heart and one soul. That's where the power and grace is. Do you want to see the gates of heaven open upon this dark, fallen world? It will happen when the earthly body of Jesus Christ, becomes ONE. ONE HEART, ONE MIND/SOUL. ONE. There is power and glory in true, genuine, communion. The commune/community of saints.

Jesus said:

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The world will not see the power and grace of almighty God, until the earthly body of Christ, the believers, become as ONE. One heart, one soul. The Soviet Union couldn't do that, they were lost. The atheist Marxists can't do that. They're lost. They need Jesus and His Holy Spirit. They need to be born again and filled with His Holy Ghost. When Christians grasp the truth of divine-communism, the world will be transformed for Christ, and Satan and his minions will be defeated.

The glory and power of Jesus Christ will be let loose upon the earth, and the works of the enemy will be broken forever.

1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

As long as Christians are asleep, under the spell of Satan and his demon named Mammon, everyone pursuing their own personal agendas and aspirations, the world will never see the power and glory of Jesus. The world needs to see the power and glory in His Bride, His Body.

The world will see the unity of The Church, of Christ's Body, being one in heart and soul. Jesus said:

Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

"THAT THE WORLD MAY KNOW"...​

Deu_18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with YHWH thy God.

Mat_19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Be one, be perfect, and the world will witness your divinely inspired love for your brothers and sisters, witnessing the power and glory of Jesus in you.

Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Joh_15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

How did Jesus love us, even when we were His enemies? How did He love? He gave everything.

Jesus expects us to do the same for each other. To love our brothers and sisters in Christ, as he loved us. The first Christians grasp this truth and they were ONE.

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

We lay it all down at the foot of the cross, at the foot of the body of Jesus Christ. What is the body of Jesus today, here on earth? The Church, The Assembly of Believers, your brothers and sisters in Jesus. The Bride of Jesus Christ, who will reign with Him, over the nations. We lay it all down at the foot of our brothers and sisters. That's what it means to be ONE and the first believers under the leadership of the twelve apostles understood this. So they experienced great power and grace.

GREAT POWER AND GRACE...
​

Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Jesus says:

Mar 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
Mar 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Mar 10:31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

We give our lands, homes, and businesses, to our brothers and sisters, to the body of Christ, and we get more lands, more homes, more businesses, more brothers and sisters, and most importantly, more divine grace and power to live in this fallen world.

Some important passages:

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungry and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of YHWH shall be thy rereward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and YHWH shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

So Jesus tells us above that we are to open the door of our homes, allowing the homeless in. Opening our doors to those who are homeless. How much more are we obligated to do that for our brothers and sisters in Christ? It doesn't say there, "throw them in a homeless shelter, pack them in like a bunch of sardines in a room, full of crackheads, where they will be eaten alive by bedbugs and coughed on all night with TB and other diseases". No that's not what Jesus and His heavenly Father are saying. Jesus, YHWH, says, OPEN THE DOOR OF YOUR HOME.

The standard for the disciples of Jesus Christ, who are currently governors in training, who will reign with Him, sitting upon the throne of YHWH (Rev 3:21, Rev 2:27), is you and I lay it all down:


Mar_8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luk_9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Luk_14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk_14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

The world mocks the impotent, counterfeit "church", because the supposed disciples of Jesus Christ today, haven't weighed the cost of discipleship. Being a Christian is a mere belief or weekly service in a building. They call that "church". The Church is a people, fully committed to each other in Christ Jesus, loving each other as Jesus loved them. This is the Bride of Christ, not a weekly sermon or bible study. The true test is in laying it all down at the foot of the cross, before the body of Jesus Christ. That earthly body of Jesus is comprised of the believers, the born-again Christians, your brothers and sisters in Christ, who are carrying their crosses daily, following Jesus.

The true Church is comprised of cross-bearers, people who actually carry a cross in this world. It's not the "church" we see today in America or practically anywhere else, with very few exceptions.

Capitalism doesn't equate to Christianity. You can and must, be a theistic, Christ-centered, Holy Spirit-filled, and empowered, Christian communist. God couldn't find a communist anymore, in His Church, apart from monks living in cloistered monasteries. God wants His people to be active in the world, and manifest His grace and power, His love and truth, but that can't happen as long as we continue pursuing our own personal aspirations and agendas.

The day the Bride of Christ wakes up from her slumber, she will transform the world for Christ. But we can't do it when we are pursuing mammon, out for #1, me, myself, and I. Long-ranger Christianity. That's not Christianity. There's no power or grace there to transform the world. We must become ONE. One heart, one mind, one arm of the Lord, advancing His Kingdom.

 

[citygator]

False, it's capitalism that always fails every few years and needs a socialist bailout from the government. The last socialist bailout was less than two years ago.

Before I go into the Bible, and show how socialism/communism is the divine ideal for God's angels and the earthly body of Christ, I will just address what you said from a historical perspective.

When did capitalism and its child, Republicanism, defeat the European monarchs and feudal lords? Did the mercantile class defeat the kings and queens, the nobility of Europe overnight, or did it take a few centuries? Did the merchant class defeat the kings in one decisive victory and swoop of the sword or did it take a few hundred years? Think and answer this question to yourself (not for me, but for you). Contemplate, consider.

The merchant class didn't defeat the royals and nobles of Europe until material conditions allowed them to become industrialists. Technology allowed the merchants to become powerful industrialists and this was the birth of the age of Republics. The defeat of monarchism in Europe, was under the heel of capitalist industrialization, leading to the creation of republics. For you to argue that because communism was unable to defeat capitalism in the 20th century, it won't in the 21st, or 22nd, is let's just say, bad thinking. You're not thinking this through.

The Soviet Union, was a very impressive attempt to establish communism at a national scale, at a time when there weren't any powerful computers, if any computers at all, much less the advanced automation that we have today.

How did the USSR begin? It began as a poor, under-industrialized, agrarian society, full of illiterate country bumpkins. A nation comprised mostly of peasants. Did Russia have its elite ruling class and oligarchs, a certain level of industry and academia, art..etc. Yes it did, but it was way behind Western Europe, a part of the world that had over 100 years of industrial development, ahead of Russia. As soon as the Bolsheviks, i.e. socialists, took the power away from the Tzar and the Russian ruling class, in 1917, a year didn't pass before it was invaded by the US and 14 other countries.

View attachment 739583​

1918 - 8500 US Marines in Russia along with 14 other countries. ​

The attempt to stop the socialists in Russia, shortly after they seized power failed. Twenty years later, Soviet Russia was an industrial juggernaut reviling the United States. A world power. It didn't have to suffer the economic depression of the West, because its economy was based upon rational, central planning. The Soviet Union in the late 1930s, was an economic marvel, that even American economists were baffled by, due to how quickly it industrialized and grew. Then it was invaded by 4 million Nazi Germans. The USSR lost 28 million people in WW2. Nine million soldiers.

View attachment 739589

The Nazi German war machine invades the USSR with four million soldiers.​

The United States lost 460 thousand Americans, and that's a lot of people, but the Soviets lost 60 times that number. We are surrounded by two vast oceans on both sides of our country. Seven out of every ten Germans fighting in the war, were fighting in the Soviet Union. The Soviets lost much of their infrastructure, all of what they built from the 1920s to 1940, were either destroyed or damaged. It had to be rebuilt.

The Soviets didn't get any help from the USA or anyone else after the war. There was no "Marshal Plan" for the Russians as there was for Western capitalist-run Europe. They had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and rebuild their country. They did it by applying socialist central planning and in less than twelve years after the war, the USSR was a world superpower. They were launching rockets into space with cosmonauts.

View attachment 739596

View attachment 739598​

The first satellite, the first living being (a dog) in space, the first man in space, the first woman in space, the first spacewalk, the first space docking between two spacecraft, the first space probes, the first, first, first....etc (they motivated the United States to get to the moon first). Before the Soviets did anything in space they built the first nuclear plant ("Soviet" means "worker's councils" or "people's councils").

Are you going to tell me with a straight face that the USSR was a joke, and didn't accomplish anything? They didn't have the Holy Spirit, they were simply applying the divine socialist principles of production. If you apply divine law or principles to your work, and your life, it doesn't matter if you're a Christian or not, you're going to benefit from it. How much more if you're a born-again, spirit-filled child of God?

The Soviets were the first to transplant human organs, the first to build nuclear electric plants, the first cell phones, the first lasers, the first LED lights, the first microwave ovens, the first compact personal computers for managers at factories..etc. Much of what you've learned about the USSR here in the West, is false propaganda. Lies. Some of it is true. The Soviets weren't angelic or saints. They had some serious flaws. But to pretend that it was all just poop. No, that's wrong.

Soviet Russia was encircled, bombed, invaded, and embargoed, by well-established and powerful capitalist-run countries, every single day of its existence. It was in a perpetual state of war, from its inception, against extremely well-equipped and organized capitalist-run powers. It nonetheless, remained a force to be reckoned with until it adopted Perestroika i.e. "market reforms", in order to placate the United States. They wanted to end the cold war and allocate their resources from defense to infrastructural development. They became war wary. Shell shocked.

They thought, "Give the US a little bit of what it wants, then we don't have to spend so much of our resources on the military". This way of thinking destroyed the USSR. Most if not all of the pictures of breadlines in the USSR are from the 1980s. Some of the ones online are from WW2, but almost all of them are from the 80s. Capitalism created the very worse breadlines in the USSR, without a shooting war.


OK, so now the Bible.

View attachment 739580​

How did the first Christians under the authority of the twelve apostles organize their community?
Let's go to the Word:

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Act 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Act 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

There was no scarcity, no lack of goods, because they were truly as ONE. One heart and one soul. That's where the power and grace is. Do you want to see the gates of heaven open upon this dark, fallen world? It will happen when the earthly body of Jesus Christ, becomes ONE. ONE HEART, ONE MIND/SOUL. ONE. There is power and glory in true, genuine, communion. The commune/community of saints.

Jesus said:

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The world will not see the power and grace of almighty God, until the earthly body of Christ, the believers, become as ONE. One heart, one soul. The Soviet Union couldn't do that, they were lost. The atheist Marxists can't do that. They're lost. They need Jesus and His Holy Spirit. They need to be born again and filled with His Holy Ghost. When Christians grasp the truth of divine-communism, the world will be transformed for Christ, and Satan and his minions will be defeated.

The glory and power of Jesus Christ will be let loose upon the earth, and the works of the enemy will be broken forever.

1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

As long as Christians are asleep, under the spell of Satan and his demon named Mammon, everyone pursuing their own personal agendas and aspirations, the world will never see the power and glory of Jesus. The world needs to see the power and glory in His Bride, His Body.

View attachment 739619​

The world will see the unity of The Church, of Christ's Body, being one in heart and soul. Jesus said:

Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

"THAT THE WORLD MAY KNOW"...​

Deu_18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with YHWH thy God.

Mat_19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Be one, be perfect, and the world will witness your divinely inspired love for your brothers and sisters, witnessing the power and glory of Jesus in you.

Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Joh_15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

How did Jesus love us, even when we were His enemies? How did He love? He gave everything.

View attachment 739624​

Jesus expects us to do the same for each other. To love our brothers and sisters in Christ, as he loved us. The first Christians grasp this truth and they were ONE.

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

We lay it all down at the foot of the cross, at the foot of the body of Jesus Christ. What is the body of Jesus today, here on earth? The Church, The Assembly of Believers, your brothers and sisters in Jesus. The Bride of Jesus Christ, who will reign with Him, over the nations. We lay it all down at the foot of our brothers and sisters. That's what it means to be ONE and the first believers under the leadership of the twelve apostles understood this. So they experienced great power and grace.

GREAT POWER AND GRACE...
​

Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Jesus says:

Mar 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
Mar 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Mar 10:31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

We give our lands, homes, and businesses, to our brothers and sisters, to the body of Christ, and we get more lands, more homes, more businesses, more brothers and sisters, and most importantly, more divine grace and power to live in this fallen world.

Some important passages:

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungry and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of YHWH shall be thy rereward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and YHWH shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

So Jesus tells us above that we are to open the door of our homes, allowing the homeless in. Opening our doors to those who are homeless. How much more are we obligated to do that for our brothers and sisters in Christ? It doesn't say there, "throw them in a homeless shelter, pack them in like a bunch of sardines in a room, full of crackheads, where they will be eaten alive by bedbugs and coughed on all night with TB and other diseases". No that's not what Jesus and His heavenly Father are saying. Jesus, YHWH, says, OPEN THE DOOR OF YOUR HOME.

The standard for the disciples of Jesus Christ, who are currently governors in training, who will reign with Him, sitting upon the throne of YHWH (Rev 3:21, Rev 2:27), is you and I lay it all down:


Mar_8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luk_9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Luk_14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk_14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

The world mocks the impotent, counterfeit "church", because the supposed disciples of Jesus Christ today, haven't weighed the cost of discipleship. Being a Christian is a mere belief or weekly service in a building. They call that "church". The Church is a people, fully committed to each other in Christ Jesus, loving each other as Jesus loved them. This is the Bride of Christ, not a weekly sermon or bible study. The true test is in laying it all down at the foot of the cross, before the body of Jesus Christ. That earthly body of Jesus is comprised of the believers, the born-again Christians, your brothers and sisters in Christ, who are carrying their crosses daily, following Jesus.

The true Church is comprised of cross-bearers, people who actually carry a cross in this world. It's not the "church" we see today in America or practically anywhere else, with very few exceptions.

Capitalism doesn't equate to Christianity. You can and must, be a theistic, Christ-centered, Holy Spirit-filled, and empowered, Christian communist. God couldn't find a communist anymore, in His Church, apart from monks living in cloistered monasteries. God wants His people to be active in the world, and manifest His grace and power, His love and truth, but that can't happen as long as we continue pursuing our own personal aspirations and agendas.

The day the Bride of Christ wakes up from her slumber, she will transform the world for Christ. But we can't do it when we are pursuing mammon, out for #1, me, myself, and I. Long-ranger Christianity. That's not Christianity. There's no power or grace there to transform the world. We must become ONE. One heart, one mind, one arm of the Lord, advancing His Kingdom.

TLDR

 

[alang1216]

You ignored a lot of what I wrote, including the scientific evidence showing how destructive homosexuality is to homosexuals and society in general.

Your evidence comes down to disease and mental issues. Disease is a risk for everyone and adults should have the freedom to decide, as much as possible, what risks they wish to take. As for the mental issues, is that inherent with being gay or is it caused by society having such a negative reaction to it? I suspect many cases of depression would disappear if the people around them were more accepting.

You misquoted Matthew 7:1 by ripping it out of context:

Disagree, 7:1-2 are one issue, the remainder are separate issues.

More, we don't need to be God to enforce His laws:

Mat_19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Are you the Son of Man? Are you sitting on one of the thrones?

The body of Christ will eventually rule the nations with a rod of iron. Call us Christian "Taliban" that's fine. Call us whatever you want.

Christian Taliban works for me. You had better hope it is your flavor of Christianity that rules. Christians have a long history of oppressing other Christians for not believing 'correctly'.

It's not as simple as "live and let live", when it comes to drugs, open homosexuality, and transgenderism, among other social ills, because just minding our own business and allowing others to do whatever they want, eventually hurts us and our loved ones. Our community's peace, security, health, and prosperity are undermined by the godless degenerates who are "doing whatever they want".

Are you speaking from personal experience?

What is good is self-evident, and those who defend atheism, moral relativism, and nihilism, will be defeated. I believe a socialist Theocratic (Christocratic) society is the divine ideal. Such a nation can be a republic, under the authority of God and His laws. The godless will be ruled under the rod of iron. The only way the heathen should be governed.

There have been 'Christocratic' regimes in the past. Can you point to one that you consider a success?

 

[Red Front]

TLDR

OKOW

 

[Red Front]

Your evidence comes down to disease and mental issues. Disease is a risk for everyone and adults should have the freedom to decide, as much as possible, what risks they wish to take. As for the mental issues, is that inherent with being gay or is it caused by society having such a negative reaction to it? I suspect many cases of depression would disappear if the people around them were more accepting.


Disagree, 7:1-2 are one issue, the remainder are separate issues.


Are you the Son of Man? Are you sitting on one of the thrones?

Christian Taliban works for me. You had better hope it is your flavor of Christianity that rules. Christians have a long history of oppressing other Christians for not believing 'correctly'.


Are you speaking from personal experience?


There have been 'Christocratic' regimes in the past. Can you point to one that you consider a success?

Your evidence comes down to disease and mental issues.

Disease (mental illness, HIV/STDs..etc) and the fact that it is prohibited by God and has some very destructive spiritual consequences, for both the people who engage in homosexual activity and the society that accepts it as normal and good (calling that which is evil, good has devastating consequences).

Disease is a risk for everyone and adults should have the freedom to decide, as much as possible, what risks they wish to take.

No one has a right to become a public health hazard. Our rights come from God and God doesn't allow for any human society that is dedicated to Him (allied with Him and His Holy Angels), to allow open homosexuality. It also hurts children, not just adults, so your point is moot.

Without God, there are no "shoulds" or moral obligations. So your assertion that "adults should have the freedom to decide" anything on this issue or any other issue, is a figment of your reprobate imagination and your personal opinion. Either we accept God in His Word, or everything is subjective, relative and nothing really matters. Make your choice and stop playing games with God (assuming you really believe in Him).

As for the mental issues, is that inherent with being gay or is it caused by society having such a negative reaction to it? I suspect many cases of depression would disappear if the people around them were more accepting.

I showed how even in Sweden, one of the most liberal, egalitarian cultures in the world, where homosexuality is considered practically equal to heterosexuality, in every way, homosexuals still experience very high rates of mental illness and other ailments, at much higher rates than heterosexuals. It doesn't matter if homosexuals are living in extremely liberal countries like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Germany, Austria..etc, they're still battling with deep depression.

They can be in Mobile Alabama or Stolkhome Sweden, it's all the same when it comes to homosexuals and their high rates of mental illness and physical ailments. Same poop, it doesn't matter. Blaming their mental health issues and ailments on people supposedly being "mean" to them is a very weak argument.

You're also ignoring the spiritual component, as a possible factor in their health problems. Evil spirits attach themselves to people who engage in fornication, especially homosexual sex. Demons love blood sacrifices dedicated to them and fornication:

Go to 4:55 on the video...

​

When people fornicate, including masturbating to pornography and filling their minds with thoughts of fornication, they open a portal to demons, allowing them to enter into their minds and bodies (they become a house of evil spirits). A temple of demons. That has a negative effect on mental and physical health. You're completely ignoring the spiritual aspect of homosexuality which contributes to their manic depression.

The person who is grappling with same-sex attraction needs to submit their lives to Jesus and allow God to work in their lives, to overcome those destructive desires. To do otherwise is to always be subject to those horrible bouts of depression. That's what demons do, they oppress and depress.

Disagree, 7:1-2 are one issue, the remainder are separate issues.

Firstly, I should ask you. Aren't you judging me for judging? You're citing scripture, criticizing me for judging, yet you are judging. Hmmmm, interesting. You're judging the judge who supposedly isn't allowed to judge. The heathen are amazing in their hypocrisy.

Scripture interprets scripture. So, although Jesus says we should not judge in Matthew 7:1, He says we should judge:

Luk 12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

Joh_7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

In Matthew 7, Jesus is particularly concerned about hypocritical judgment. His message is that we must not judge others for what we are guilty of. Every time we hypocritically criticize someone, we are condemning ourselves.

You're isolating Matthew 7:1 from its immediate context and the Bible in general. Does Jesus want us to judge or not? Yes, He does. In Matthew 7 where He says: “Judge not,” He also says: “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine.” (Matthew 7:6). We cannot identify “dogs” without judgment. Neither can we determine “swine” without judging. Think and reflect.

Jesus then goes on to say: “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits.” (Matthew 7:15-16). If we are to identify false prophets by their fruits, we have to judge them.

Jesus’ concern becomes apparent when He says: “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” (John 7:24). This shows Jesus wants us to judge, but we must judge righteously.

“In righteousness, you shall judge your neighbor.” Leviticus 19:16).

Righteous judgment means not playing favorites. Accordingly, James warns:

“Do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?” (James 2:1-4).

Jesus wants us to judge righteously.

Are you the Son of Man?

Every born-again, spirit-filled disciple of Jesus Christ, is one with the Son of Man. Read chapter 7 of Daniel. The angel's interpretation of Daniel's vision, where he sees the Son of Man, identifies Him, as one with His remnant. The remnant (the saints) are the embodiment of the Son of Man.
So the answer to your question is:

Yes, I embody the Son of Man, so I and all my fellow disciples are The Son of Man.

Are you sitting on one of the thrones?

Every born-again, spirit-filled believer in Jesus Christ, is sitting on the throne. They have both worldly and spiritual authority, over the nations and every demon of hell.

Christian Taliban works for me.

Nice.

You had better hope it is your flavor of Christianity that rules.

You better repent and surrender.

Christians have a long history of oppressing other Christians for not believing 'correctly'.

Are you speaking from personal experience?

That's a fact deduced from observation and logical inference, but yes, I have experienced the consequences of procrastination and indifference. We can't allow others to do whatever they want, when what is wanted violates God's law and the law of the land. What godless liberals are doing to our culture, and to our youth, has to be stopped.

There have been 'Christocratic' regimes in the past. Can you point to one that you consider a success?

If there were actually "Christocratic regimes" in the past as you claim, it's irrelevant to the validity and success of the final Christocratic REGIME, that is foretold in the Word of God. In the end, Christ's disciples will rule the nations with a rod of iron. People like you will be in subjection to the law of Christ, whether they like it or not. Let the wicked squirm.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Psa 2:11 Serve Yahweh with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

The Son of Man = The born-again, spirit-filled disciples of Jesus Christ (the earthly body of Jesus/The called-Out Ones/The Set-Apart believers of Jesus Christ a.k.a. The Israel of God, The Church/Ekklesia/Qahal):

.Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The saints/the believers/the cross-bearing disciples of Jesus Christ, and Christ Himself, are as ONE. Christ rules creation, through His people.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

Psalms 2:7-12 is applied to the believers, by Jesus himself in Revelations 2:26-28. Jesus says of His disciples:

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the assemblies.

Repent and stop promoting satanic, perverted ideas and practices. Shame on you for saying that it's OK for parents to have sex with their adult children. Such practices are condemned by God. You're exposing and condemning yourself to hell for entertaining and promulgating your warped, degenerate values.

 

[citygator]

I just “unwatched” this thread. I can’t wade through the sea of words.

 

[Red Front]

I just “unwatched” this thread. I can’t wade through the sea of words.

Just place me on ignore. Click.

 

[alang1216]

Your evidence comes down to disease and mental issues.

Disease (mental illness, HIV/STDs..etc) and the fact that it is prohibited by God and has some very destructive spiritual consequences, for both the people who engage in homosexual activity and the society that accepts it as normal and good (calling that which is evil, good has devastating consequences).

I'm thankful you are so far outside the mainstream of the USA that no one would take you seriously.

Disease is a risk for everyone and adults should have the freedom to decide, as much as possible, what risks they wish to take.

No one has a right to become a public health hazard.

I presume you've had all your Covid shots and wore a mask when necessary.

Our rights come from God and God doesn't allow for any human society that is dedicated to Him (allied with Him and His Holy Angels), to allow open homosexuality. It also hurts children, not just adults, so your point is moot.

Our rights may come from God but they are codified in civil laws. Sorry you hate the USA but establishing a state religion is not the basis this country was built on.

Without God, there are no "shoulds" or moral obligations. So your assertion that "adults should have the freedom to decide" anything on this issue or any other issue, is a figment of your reprobate imagination and your personal opinion. Either we accept God in His Word, or everything is subjective, relative and nothing really matters. Make your choice and stop playing games with God (assuming you really believe in Him).

I thought God gave us free will? Don't you believe that if we sin in His eyes He will judge and punish us.

As for the mental issues, is that inherent with being gay or is it caused by society having such a negative reaction to it? I suspect many cases of depression would disappear if the people around them were more accepting.

I showed how even in Sweden, one of the most liberal, egalitarian cultures in the world, where homosexuality is considered practically equal to heterosexuality, in every way, homosexuals still experience very high rates of mental illness and other ailments, at much higher rates than heterosexuals. It doesn't matter if homosexuals are living in extremely liberal countries like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Germany, Austria..etc, they're still battling with deep depression.

They can be in Mobile Alabama or Stolkhome Sweden, it's all the same when it comes to homosexuals and their high rates of mental illness and physical ailments. Same poop, it doesn't matter. Blaming their mental health issues and ailments on people supposedly being "mean" to them is a very weak argument.

There have been many societies in history that accepted homosexuality as perfectly normal and they have been quite successful.

You're also ignoring the spiritual component, as a possible factor in their health problems. Evil spirits attach themselves to people who engage in fornication, especially homosexual sex.

I ignore your spiritual arguments since I'm not qualified to discuss them.

Disagree, 7:1-2 are one issue, the remainder are separate issues.

Firstly, I should ask you. Aren't you judging me for judging? You're citing scripture, criticizing me for judging, yet you are judging. Hmmmm, interesting. You're judging the judge who supposedly isn't allowed to judge. The heathen are amazing in their hypocrisy.

Never said otherwise.

Jesus wants us to judge righteously.

He is also quoted as saying 'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone'.

There have been 'Christocratic' regimes in the past. Can you point to one that you consider a success?​

If there were actually "Christocratic regimes" in the past as you claim, it's irrelevant to the validity and success of the final Christocratic REGIME, that is foretold in the Word of God. In the end, Christ's disciples will rule the nations with a rod of iron. People like you will be in subjection to the law of Christ, whether they like it or not. Let the wicked squirm.

You'd make a great Inquisitor.

Repent and stop promoting satanic, perverted ideas and practices. Shame on you for saying that it's OK for parents to have sex with their adult children. Such practices are condemned by God. You're exposing and condemning yourself to hell for entertaining and promulgating your warped, degenerate values.

I never said it was OK, what I said was it was their choice and I see no reason I need to tell them what to do if they are harming no one but themselves. I doubt you'd take kindly to a Muslim telling you you need to convert.

 

[Red Front]

I'm thankful you are so far outside the mainstream of the USA that no one would take you seriously.

I presume you've had all your Covid shots and wore a mask when necessary.


Our rights may come from God but they are codified in civil laws. Sorry you hate the USA but establishing a state religion is not the basis this country was built on.


I thought God gave us free will? Don't you believe that if we sin in His eyes He will judge and punish us.


There have been many societies in history that accepted homosexuality as perfectly normal and they have been quite successful.


I ignore your spiritual arguments since I'm not qualified to discuss them.


Never said otherwise.


He is also quoted as saying 'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone'.


You'd make a great Inquisitor.


I never said it was OK, what I said was it was their choice and I see no reason I need to tell them what to do if they are harming no one but themselves. I doubt you'd take kindly to a Muslim telling you you need to convert.

All of your responses are fraught with poor reasoning and willful ignorance. Believe and do whatever you want and you will nonetheless pay the piper. I'm done here with you, casting my pearls before swine.

 

[kyzr]

False, it's capitalism that always fails every few years and needs a socialist bailout from the government. The last socialist bailout was less than two years ago.

Before I go into the Bible, and show how socialism/communism is the divine ideal for God's angels and the earthly body of Christ, I will just address what you said from a historical perspective.

When did capitalism and its child, Republicanism, defeat the European monarchs and feudal lords? Did the mercantile class defeat the kings and queens, the nobility of Europe overnight, or did it take a few centuries? Did the merchant class defeat the kings in one decisive victory and swoop of the sword or did it take a few hundred years? Think and answer this question to yourself (not for me, but for you). Contemplate, consider.

The merchant class didn't defeat the royals and nobles of Europe until material conditions allowed them to become industrialists. Technology allowed the merchants to become powerful industrialists and this was the birth of the age of Republics. The defeat of monarchism in Europe, was under the heel of capitalist industrialization, leading to the creation of republics. For you to argue that because communism was unable to defeat capitalism in the 20th century, it won't in the 21st, or 22nd, is let's just say, bad thinking. You're not thinking this through.

The Soviet Union, was a very impressive attempt to establish communism at a national scale, at a time when there weren't any powerful computers, if any computers at all, much less the advanced automation that we have today.

How did the USSR begin? It began as a poor, under-industrialized, agrarian society, full of illiterate country bumpkins. A nation comprised mostly of peasants. Did Russia have its elite ruling class and oligarchs, a certain level of industry and academia, art..etc. Yes it did, but it was way behind Western Europe, a part of the world that had over 100 years of industrial development, ahead of Russia. As soon as the Bolsheviks, i.e. socialists, took the power away from the Tzar and the Russian ruling class, in 1917, a year didn't pass before it was invaded by the US and 14 other countries.

1918 - 8500 US Marines in Russia along with 14 other countries. ​

The attempt to stop the socialists in Russia, shortly after they seized power failed. Twenty years later, Soviet Russia was an industrial juggernaut reviling the United States. A world power. It didn't have to suffer the economic depression of the West, because its economy was based upon rational, central planning. The Soviet Union in the late 1930s, was an economic marvel, that even American economists were baffled by, due to how quickly it industrialized and grew. Then it was invaded by 4 million Nazi Germans. The USSR lost 28 million people in WW2. Nine million soldiers.
The Nazi German war machine invades the USSR with four million soldiers.
The United States lost 460 thousand Americans, and that's a lot of people, but the Soviets lost 60 times that number. We are surrounded by two vast oceans on both sides of our country. Seven out of every ten Germans fighting in the war, were fighting in the Soviet Union. The Soviets lost much of their infrastructure, all of what they built from the 1920s to 1940, were either destroyed or damaged. It had to be rebuilt.

The Soviets didn't get any help from the USA or anyone else after the war. There was no "Marshal Plan" for the Russians as there was for Western capitalist-run Europe. They had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and rebuild their country. They did it by applying socialist central planning and in less than twelve years after the war, the USSR was a world superpower. They were launching rockets into space with cosmonauts.

The first satellite, the first living being (a dog) in space, the first man in space, the first woman in space, the first spacewalk, the first space docking between two spacecraft, the first space probes, the first, first, first....etc (they motivated the United States to get to the moon first). Before the Soviets did anything in space they built the first nuclear plant ("Soviet" means "worker's councils" or "people's councils").

Are you going to tell me with a straight face that the USSR was a joke, and didn't accomplish anything? They didn't have the Holy Spirit, they were simply applying the divine socialist principles of production. If you apply divine law or principles to your work, and your life, it doesn't matter if you're a Christian or not, you're going to benefit from it. How much more if you're a born-again, spirit-filled child of God?

The Soviets were the first to transplant human organs, the first to build nuclear electric plants, the first cell phones, the first lasers, the first LED lights, the first microwave ovens, the first compact personal computers for managers at factories..etc. Much of what you've learned about the USSR here in the West, is false propaganda. Lies. Some of it is true. The Soviets weren't angelic or saints. They had some serious flaws. But to pretend that it was all just poop. No, that's wrong.

Soviet Russia was encircled, bombed, invaded, and embargoed, by well-established and powerful capitalist-run countries, every single day of its existence. It was in a perpetual state of war, from its inception, against extremely well-equipped and organized capitalist-run powers. It nonetheless, remained a force to be reckoned with until it adopted Perestroika i.e. "market reforms", in order to placate the United States. They wanted to end the cold war and allocate their resources from defense to infrastructural development. They became war wary. Shell shocked.

They thought, "Give the US a little bit of what it wants, then we don't have to spend so much of our resources on the military". This way of thinking destroyed the USSR. Most if not all of the pictures of breadlines in the USSR are from the 1980s. Some of the ones online are from WW2, but almost all of them are from the 80s. Capitalism created the very worse breadlines in the USSR, without a shooting war.


OK, so now the Bible.

How did the first Christians under the authority of the twelve apostles organize their community?
Let's go to the Word:

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Act 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Act 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

There was no scarcity, no lack of goods, because they were truly as ONE. One heart and one soul. That's where the power and grace is. Do you want to see the gates of heaven open upon this dark, fallen world? It will happen when the earthly body of Jesus Christ, becomes ONE. ONE HEART, ONE MIND/SOUL. ONE. There is power and glory in true, genuine, communion. The commune/community of saints.

Jesus said:

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The world will not see the power and grace of almighty God, until the earthly body of Christ, the believers, become as ONE. One heart, one soul. The Soviet Union couldn't do that, they were lost. The atheist Marxists can't do that. They're lost. They need Jesus and His Holy Spirit. They need to be born again and filled with His Holy Ghost. When Christians grasp the truth of divine-communism, the world will be transformed for Christ, and Satan and his minions will be defeated.

The glory and power of Jesus Christ will be let loose upon the earth, and the works of the enemy will be broken forever.

1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

As long as Christians are asleep, under the spell of Satan and his demon named Mammon, everyone pursuing their own personal agendas and aspirations, the world will never see the power and glory of Jesus. The world needs to see the power and glory in His Bride, His Body. The world will see the unity of The Church, of Christ's Body, being one in heart and soul. Jesus said:

Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

"THAT THE WORLD MAY KNOW"...​

Deu_18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with YHWH thy God.

Mat_19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Be one, be perfect, and the world will witness your divinely inspired love for your brothers and sisters, witnessing the power and glory of Jesus in you.

Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Joh_15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

How did Jesus love us, even when we were His enemies? How did He love? He gave everything.

Jesus expects us to do the same for each other. To love our brothers and sisters in Christ, as he loved us. The first Christians grasp this truth and they were ONE.

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

We lay it all down at the foot of the cross, at the foot of the body of Jesus Christ. What is the body of Jesus today, here on earth? The Church, The Assembly of Believers, your brothers and sisters in Jesus. The Bride of Jesus Christ, who will reign with Him, over the nations. We lay it all down at the foot of our brothers and sisters. That's what it means to be ONE and the first believers under the leadership of the twelve apostles understood this. So they experienced great power and grace.

GREAT POWER AND GRACE...
​

Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Jesus says:

Mar 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
Mar 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Mar 10:31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

We give our lands, homes, and businesses, to our brothers and sisters, to the body of Christ, and we get more lands, more homes, more businesses, more brothers and sisters, and most importantly, more divine grace and power to live in this fallen world.

Some important passages:

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungry and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of YHWH shall be thy reward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and YHWH shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

So Jesus tells us above that we are to open the door of our homes, allowing the homeless in. Opening our doors to those who are homeless. How much more are we obligated to do that for our brothers and sisters in Christ? It doesn't say there, "throw them in a homeless shelter, pack them in like a bunch of sardines in a room, full of crackheads, where they will be eaten alive by bedbugs and coughed on all night with TB and other diseases". No that's not what Jesus and His heavenly Father are saying. Jesus, YHWH, says, OPEN THE DOOR OF YOUR HOME.

The standard for the disciples of Jesus Christ, who are currently governors in training, who will reign with Him, sitting upon the throne of YHWH (Rev 3:21, Rev 2:27), is you and I lay it all down:


Mar_8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luk_9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luk_14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk_14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

The world mocks the impotent, counterfeit "church", because the supposed disciples of Jesus Christ today, haven't weighed the cost of discipleship. Being a Christian is a mere belief or weekly service in a building. They call that "church". The Church is a people, fully committed to each other in Christ Jesus, loving each other as Jesus loved them. This is the Bride of Christ, not a weekly sermon or bible study. The true test is in laying it all down at the foot of the cross, before the body of Jesus Christ. That earthly body of Jesus is comprised of the believers, the born-again Christians, your brothers and sisters in Christ, who are carrying their crosses daily, following Jesus.

The true Church is comprised of cross-bearers, people who actually carry a cross in this world. It's not the "church" we see today in America or practically anywhere else, with very few exceptions.

Capitalism doesn't equate to Christianity. You can and must, be a theistic, Christ-centered, Holy Spirit-filled, and empowered, Christian communist. God couldn't find a communist anymore, in His Church, apart from monks living in cloistered monasteries. God wants His people to be active in the world, and manifest His grace and power, His love and truth, but that can't happen as long as we continue pursuing our own personal aspirations and agendas.

The day the Bride of Christ wakes up from her slumber, she will transform the world for Christ. But we can't do it when we are pursuing mammon, out for #1, me, myself, and I. Long-ranger Christianity. That's not Christianity. There's no power or grace there to transform the world. We must become ONE. One heart, one mind, one arm of the Lord, advancing His Kingdom.

That's a long, long post. I'm going to summarize the points instead of responding line-by-line:
1. Are you Chinese? The Chinese are the only "communists" that seem to have figured out how to have capitalism, and still call themselves "communists".
2. Capitalism did NOT fail two years ago. Capitalism was doing very well. A worldwide pandemic hit and the government fought the pandemic by shutting the economy down. Look around now, the US economy is doing okay, much better than communist countries.
3. Communism will NEVER defeat capitalism. Communism runs out of gas when entrepreneurs stop innovating, and industrialists stop building their companies. Why should anyone work harder when everyone gets the same bucket of rice? Why did Russia collapse if you hold it up as an example of success? ANS: Reagan used the economic capacity of the US to win the Cold War. Khrushchev said "we will bury you", Putin is now threatening to use nuclear weapons, so putting Russia up as a victim is bullshit. Angela Merkel trusted Putin enough to buy all their gas from Russia, then Russia invaded Ukraine and showed the real Putin. Russia's economy is the size of Italy's. All Russia has is oil & gas.
4. Your biblical quotes don't prove anything positive about "communism". The biblical quotes generally refer to the spiritual realm, not the physical realm.
5. You typed this without any followup: "Christian communist." (red font above) I never heard that term before. The Russian commies were atheists. I'm surprised you put Russia up as a good example. They are a bad example of just about everything.
6. About the only "Christian communists" I agree that the old monasteries and nun cloisters that were apart and self-sufficient could be considered communists of sort, but they were Christians first and foremost, they were NOT interested in promoting "communism" over capitalism.
7. If your "game plan" is to preach Jesus and Communism, good luck. Both of those will be really tough sells in today's world. Just look at how many migrants are risking their lives to leave their home and trek to the "sinful" USA.

 

[Ame®icano]

Great question. I voted yes because there would be no legal reason not to. There's no reason why we can't have LGBQTIAP, with the P standing for polygamist. If the left wouldn't want this I'm dying to hear their reasoning. People should be allowed to identify themselves the way they want to be identified.

California, with their new laws paved the way to protect, legalize, and normalize pedophilia, for which the perverted community reserved the letter "P" already.

 

[Red Front]

That's a long, long post. I'm going to summarize the points instead of responding line-by-line:
1. Are you Chinese? The Chinese are the only "communists" that seem to have figured out how to have capitalism, and still call themselves "communists".
2. Capitalism did NOT fail two years ago. Capitalism was doing very well. A worldwide pandemic hit and the government fought the pandemic by shutting the economy down. Look around now, the US economy is doing okay, much better than communist countries.
3. Communism will NEVER defeat capitalism. Communism runs out of gas when entrepreneurs stop innovating, and industrialists stop building their companies. Why should anyone work harder when everyone gets the same bucket of rice? Why did Russia collapse if you hold it up as an example of success? ANS: Reagan used the economic capacity of the US to win the Cold War. Khrushchev said "we will bury you", Putin is now threatening to use nuclear weapons, so putting Russia up as a victim is bullshit. Angela Merkel trusted Putin enough to buy all their gas from Russia, then Russia invaded Ukraine and showed the real Putin. Russia's economy is the size of Italy's. All Russia has is oil & gas.
4. Your biblical quotes don't prove anything positive about "communism". The biblical quotes generally refer to the spiritual realm, not the physical realm.
5. You typed this without any followup: "Christian communist." (red font above) I never heard that term before. The Russian commies were atheists. I'm surprised you put Russia up as a good example. They are a bad example of just about everything.
6. About the only "Christian communists" I agree that the old monasteries and nun cloisters that were apart and self-sufficient could be considered communists of sort, but they were Christians first and foremost, they were NOT interested in promoting "communism" over capitalism.
7. If your "game plan" is to preach Jesus and Communism, good luck. Both of those will be really tough sells in today's world. Just look at how many migrants are risking their lives to leave their home and trek to the "sinful" USA.

That's a long, long post.

A complex issue requires a thorough, detailed response. If you're not willing to read what I post, why continue pressing the issue or trying to debunk my position? You're just ignoring everything or most of what I say. Just put me on ignore, click.


I'm going to summarize the points instead of responding line-by-line:
1. Are you Chinese? The Chinese are the only "communists" that seem to have figured out how to have capitalism, and still call themselves "communists".

Socialists call themselves "communists", because communism is the objective of socialism (socialism is the process that leads to communism). Socialism can have markets in the consumer goods sector of the economy (Marx admits that). So what makes an economy "socialist"? The economy is centrally planned and controlled by the government (i.e. a state-run economy). There are "five-year plans", with certain objectives and productive forces (funds, labor-power, equipment, R&D.etc) are employed to achieve those goals.

The bottom line of the economy is the public good, not the enrichment of a small % of the population, at everybody else's expense, as it is here in the US.

The major centers of economic power, like the banks, energy (fossil fuel industry, nuclear power. etc), all utilities, mining, transportation, telecom, pharmaceuticals, and a host of other important, large, heavy industries, that are vital to the country's infrastructure are nationalized (i.e. publicly owned). Moreover, the people have a constitutional right to food, housing, healthcare, education, and employment in the public sector. If they can't find a job in the private sector, they can get one in the public sector.

If you haven't worked for a long time and have a large gap in your employment history, just get a job in the government (because you're guaranteed a job in the government when you need one). Work there for a few years, get some training and experience, then transition back into the private sector.

China doesn't have a "capitalist-run economy", like the United States has, due to what I just described above. China is more of a mixed economy that is planning to transition to a fully non-profit, marketless, communist system of production, in the future when technology permits. The central government authority is the Chinese communist party, with the objective just mentioned earlier hence they identify themselves as "communists". It's not correct or accurate to identify China as having a capitalist economy. It's more complex (nuanced) than that.

​

2. Capitalism did NOT fail two years ago. Capitalism was doing very well. A worldwide pandemic hit and the government fought the pandemic by shutting the economy down.

Capitalism at a national scale doesn't just fail during pandemics and other disasters, needing the government to intervene and bail it out, but it has been failing since its beginning. There are boom and bust cycles dating back almost two centuries. Capitalism has always needed the government to intervene and save it (i.e. bail it out with public funds every few years) and provide it with a currency, infrastructure, courts, law enforcement, contracts, grants, subsidies, loans, facilities, expertise..etc, to assert otherwise only exposes your ignorance, if not dishonesty.

Even now the big-money capitalists are pleading with governments to pay the working-class (paying consumers), a UBI i.e. Universal Basic Income:

​

UBI = When the capitalists need the government to bail out capitalism with public funds, on a monthly basis.

How can you with a straight face claim capitalism is a sustainable, stable system when it is being constantly bailed-out with public government funds?

Look around now, the US economy is doing okay, much better than communist countries.

It's doing "OK" until it needs another government bailout and intervention. The big money
capitalists privatize profits and make public all of their losses. As far as what you said about communism, there aren't any communist countries. Name one. This is the definition of communism:

"Communist society also involves the absence of private property,[1] social classes, money,[9] and the state.[10][11][12] Communists often seek a voluntary state of self-governance, but disagree on the means to this end. "

Show me a society on earth, at a national scale, that doesn't use money and doesn't have a state. According to Marx, there are two types of communism. The primitive communism of hunter-gatherers or the "stone-age" communism, that existed tens of thousands of years ago when humanity lived in tribes. Then there's high communism (high-tech communism, requiring a high-level of automation). In a high-communist society, there are no socioeconomic classes, no state (or a very small one), and no need for money or markets.

We socialists, call ourselves "communists" because communism is our objective, but we're not there yet. It's the goal, once technology permits high communism to exist. Countries that apply socialist principles to their economies have more robust, stable, and successful economies. Countries that privatize everything and adopt laissez-faire capitalism, destroy their economies.


3. Communism will NEVER defeat capitalism.

It's destined to defeat it thanks to advanced automation technology.


Communism runs out of gas when entrepreneurs stop innovating, and industrialists stop building their companies. Why should anyone work harder when everyone gets the same bucket of rice? Why did Russia collapse if you hold it up as an example of success? ANS: Reagan used the economic capacity of the US to win the Cold War.

Reagan just spent more money on the military. It was Reaganomics or "supply-side economics", that gutted our manufacturing base and working class.

​

Khrushchev said "we will bury you", Putin is now threatening to use nuclear weapons, so putting Russia up as a victim is bullshit. Angela Merkel trusted Putin enough to buy all their gas from Russia, then Russia invaded Ukraine and showed the real Putin. Russia's economy is the size of Italy's. All Russia has is oil & gas.


Russia isn't a socialist country anymore, it's run by capitalist oligarchs. As far as the Russo-Ukrainian war, it was started by NATO and the US-orchestrated coup in Ukraine in 2014.

'Ukraine On Fire' - Documentary of the 2014 American backed coup in Ukraine - Oliver Stone (2016)​

4. Your biblical quotes don't prove anything positive about "communism". The biblical quotes generally refer to the spiritual realm, not the physical realm.

This isn't referring to the "spiritual realm", but to the physical:

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Act 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Act 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

They weren't doing all of the above, as spirits, but as physical, embodied human beings. The other verses I cited pertain to instructions given by Jesus for his disciples in this world, not in the so-called "spiritual realm". Nice try, but your attempt to explain away the obvious failed.

5. You typed this without any followup: "Christian communist." (red font above) I never heard that term before. The Russian commies were atheists. I'm surprised you put Russia up as a good example. They are a bad example of just about everything.

Red for Christian communists represents the blood of Jesus. If Russia is supposedly so bad, then the United States is even worse. I and other Christian communists are here in America, because we can and this world belongs first to our heavenly Father and our Savior Jesus Christ. Commies stay, capitalists, leave. How about that? Did you like that Bubba?

As far as the Soviet Russian communists being atheists, so what? God can use atheists, pagans (King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, King Cyrus of Persia ), and even a donkey, when God's people are disobedient and not doing what they're supposed to. You have this weird idea that Christians can be capitalists, but not communists. Adam Smith, one of the icons of "free-market" capitalism, was a rabid critic of Christianity. Why are you an apologist for capitalism? Practically all of the big names in capitalism were atheists as well. Supposed Christians like you are very confused.


6. About the only "Christian communists" I agree that the old monasteries and nun cloisters that were apart and self-sufficient could be considered communists of sort, but they were Christians first and foremost, they were NOT interested in promoting "communism" over capitalism.

You're so brainwashed, that you think capitalism = Christianity. You're misguided and confused. Following your line of reasoning, communism is actually more Christlike than capitalism. Why not? Like I pointed out earlier, all of the big names in capitalism were atheists and even wrote books against Christianity.


7. If your "game plan" is to preach Jesus and Communism, good luck. Both of those will be really tough sells in today's world. Just look at how many migrants are risking their lives to leave their home and trek to the "sinful" USA.

Yeah, because the US through its foreign policy (warmongering, economic sanctions, orchestrated coups) creates the conditions that force people to leave their countries and come here. I'm not selling anything, the Holy Spirit does the work, and we already have plenty of people coming to our meetings and joining our community. God is working, despite the defenders and worshipers of mammon and capitalism.

 

[San Souci]

Now that the government approved gay marriages, what's the next taboo we can fix?

Polygamy
Polygamy is the practice of marrying multiple spouses. When a man is married to more than one wife at the same time, sociologists call this polygyny. When a woman is married to more than one husband at a time, it is called polyandry. In contrast to polygamy, monogamy is marriage consisting of only two parties.Wikipedia

Polygamy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes. Every man should have a Harem. The Arabs were right.

 

[kyzr]

Yes. Every man should have a Harem. The Arabs were right.

Love your avatar!

 

[kyzr]

That's a long, long post.

A complex issue requires a thorough, detailed response. If you're not willing to read what I post, why continue pressing the issue or trying to debunk my position? You're just ignoring everything or most of what I say. Just put me on ignore, click.


I'm going to summarize the points instead of responding line-by-line:
1. Are you Chinese? The Chinese are the only "communists" that seem to have figured out how to have capitalism, and still call themselves "communists".

Socialists call themselves "communists", because communism is the objective of socialism (socialism is the process that leads to communism). Socialism can have markets in the consumer goods sector of the economy (Marx admits that). So what makes an economy "socialist"? The economy is centrally planned and controlled by the government (i.e. a state-run economy). There are "five-year plans", with certain objectives and productive forces (funds, labor-power, equipment, R&D.etc) are employed to achieve those goals.

The bottom line of the economy is the public good, not the enrichment of a small % of the population, at everybody else's expense, as it is here in the US.

The major centers of economic power, like the banks, energy (fossil fuel industry, nuclear power. etc), all utilities, mining, transportation, telecom, pharmaceuticals, and a host of other important, large, heavy industries, that are vital to the country's infrastructure are nationalized (i.e. publicly owned). Moreover, the people have a constitutional right to food, housing, healthcare, education, and employment in the public sector. If they can't find a job in the private sector, they can get one in the public sector.

If you haven't worked for a long time and have a large gap in your employment history, just get a job in the government (because you're guaranteed a job in the government when you need one). Work there for a few years, get some training and experience, then transition back into the private sector.

China doesn't have a "capitalist-run economy", like the United States has, due to what I just described above. China is more of a mixed economy that is planning to transition to a fully non-profit, marketless, communist system of production, in the future when technology permits. The central government authority is the Chinese communist party, with the objective just mentioned earlier hence they identify themselves as "communists". It's not correct or accurate to identify China as having a capitalist economy. It's more complex (nuanced) than that.

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2. Capitalism did NOT fail two years ago. Capitalism was doing very well. A worldwide pandemic hit and the government fought the pandemic by shutting the economy down.

Capitalism at a national scale doesn't just fail during pandemics and other disasters, needing the government to intervene and bail it out, but it has been failing since its beginning. There are boom and bust cycles dating back almost two centuries. Capitalism has always needed the government to intervene and save it (i.e. bail it out with public funds every few years) and provide it with a currency, infrastructure, courts, law enforcement, contracts, grants, subsidies, loans, facilities, expertise..etc, to assert otherwise only exposes your ignorance, if not dishonesty.

Even now the big-money capitalists are pleading with governments to pay the working-class (paying consumers), a UBI i.e. Universal Basic Income:

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UBI = When the capitalists need the government to bail out capitalism with public funds, on a monthly basis.

How can you with a straight face claim capitalism is a sustainable, stable system when it is being constantly bailed-out with public government funds?

Look around now, the US economy is doing okay, much better than communist countries.

It's doing "OK" until it needs another government bailout and intervention. The big money
capitalists privatize profits and make public all of their losses. As far as what you said about communism, there aren't any communist countries. Name one. This is the definition of communism:

"Communist society also involves the absence of private property,[1] social classes, money,[9] and the state.[10][11][12] Communists often seek a voluntary state of self-governance, but disagree on the means to this end. "

Show me a society on earth, at a national scale, that doesn't use money and doesn't have a state. According to Marx, there are two types of communism. The primitive communism of hunter-gatherers or the "stone-age" communism, that existed tens of thousands of years ago when humanity lived in tribes. Then there's high communism (high-tech communism, requiring a high-level of automation). In a high-communist society, there are no socioeconomic classes, no state (or a very small one), and no need for money or markets.

We socialists, call ourselves "communists" because communism is our objective, but we're not there yet. It's the goal, once technology permits high communism to exist. Countries that apply socialist principles to their economies have more robust, stable, and successful economies. Countries that privatize everything and adopt laissez-faire capitalism, destroy their economies.


3. Communism will NEVER defeat capitalism. Communism runs out of gas when entrepreneurs stop innovating, and industrialists stop building their companies. Why should anyone work harder when everyone gets the same bucket of rice? Why did Russia collapse if you hold it up as an example of success? ANS: Reagan used the economic capacity of the US to win the Cold War.

Communism is destined to defeat capitalism thanks to advanced automation technology.

Reagan just spent more money on the military. It was Reaganomics or "supply-side economics", that gutted our manufacturing base and working class.

Khrushchev said "we will bury you", Putin is now threatening to use nuclear weapons, so putting Russia up as a victim is bullshit. Angela Merkel trusted Putin enough to buy all their gas from Russia, then Russia invaded Ukraine and showed the real Putin. Russia's economy is the size of Italy's. All Russia has is oil & gas.


Russia isn't a socialist country anymore, it's run by capitalist oligarchs. As far as the Russo-Ukrainian war, it was started by NATO and the US-orchestrated coup in Ukraine in 2014. 'Ukraine On Fire' - Documentary of the 2014 American backed coup in Ukraine - Oliver Stone (2016)


4. Your biblical quotes don't prove anything positive about "communism". The biblical quotes generally refer to the spiritual realm, not the physical realm.

This isn't referring to the "spiritual realm", but to the physical:
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Act 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Act 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

They weren't doing all of the above, as spirits, but as physical, embodied human beings. The other verses I cited pertain to instructions given by Jesus for his disciples in this world, not in the so-called "spiritual realm". Nice try, but your attempt to explain away the obvious failed.

5. You typed this without any followup: "Christian communist." (red font above) I never heard that term before. The Russian commies were atheists. I'm surprised you put Russia up as a good example. They are a bad example of just about everything.

Red for Christian communists represents the blood of Jesus. If Russia is supposedly so bad, then the United States is even worse. I and other Christian communists are here in America, because we can and this world belongs first to our heavenly Father and our Savior Jesus Christ. Commies stay, capitalists, leave. How about that? Did you like that Bubba?

As far as the Soviet Russian communists being atheists, so what? God can use atheists, pagans (King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, King Cyrus of Persia ), and even a donkey, when God's people are disobedient and not doing what they're supposed to. You have this weird idea that Christians can be capitalists, but not communists. Adam Smith, one of the icons of "free-market" capitalism, was a rabid critic of Christianity. Why are you an apologist for capitalism? Practically all of the big names in capitalism were atheists as well. Supposed Christians like you are very confused.


6. About the only "Christian communists" I agree that the old monasteries and nun cloisters that were apart and self-sufficient could be considered communists of sort, but they were Christians first and foremost, they were NOT interested in promoting "communism" over capitalism.

You're so brainwashed, that you think capitalism = Christianity. You're misguided and confused. Following your line of reasoning, communism is actually more Christlike than capitalism. Why not? Like I pointed out earlier, all of the big names in capitalism were atheists and even wrote books against Christianity.


7. If your "game plan" is to preach Jesus and Communism, good luck. Both of those will be really tough sells in today's world. Just look at how many migrants are risking their lives to leave their home and trek to the "sinful" USA.

Yeah, because the US through its foreign policy (warmongering, economic sanctions, orchestrated coups) creates the conditions that force people to leave their countries and come here. I'm not selling anything, the Holy Spirit does the work, and we already have plenty of people coming to our meetings and joining our community. God is working, despite the defenders and worshipers of mammon and capitalism.

Don't be so touchy. Just because I say you write long posts doesn't mean I don't read every word. I do read every word, several times before I reply.
You are a gifted writer, even if you're mostly wrong. I enjoy the debate.

1.The bottom line of the Chinese economy is the public good, not the enrichment of a small % of the population, at everybody else's expense, as it is here in the US.
The economy is centrally planned and controlled by the government
There are more Chinese billionaires than there are American billionaires. I call bullshit on your commie prototype.
An economy that is "centrally planned" is doomed to fail. The Chinese economy only prospers because they Chinese steal everyone's ideas and make it cheaper. The world will adjust.

2. How can you with a straight face claim capitalism is a sustainable, stable system when it is being constantly bailed-out with public government funds?
This is one of your better arguments. That capitalism has "boom and bust" cycles that require occasional government bailouts. I can add that government subsidies and tariffs are an even bigger problem for "capitalism". But then again, just like the SPR, its there for emergencies. The Federal Reserve can manage money to get thru crises, like the 2020 pandemic or the 2008 financial crisis, caused by politicians with good intentions, but lousy enforcement. Remember that those "government funds" are actually TAXES paid by the capitalist economy.

3. Communism is destined to defeat capitalism thanks to advanced automation technology. Russia isn't a socialist country anymore, it's run by capitalist oligarchs. As far as the Russo-Ukrainian war, it was started by NATO and the US-orchestrated coup in Ukraine in 2014
You can say things like that, but you haven't proven anything. Automation or even Artificial Intelligence isn't a communist strong suit. They are the realm of capitalists like Elon Musk and Steve Jobs. Communists only hope to steal that technology.
As for Russia, agreed they are not communists anymore, they tried it, and it failed. Have you seen the movie/documentary "Maidan"

Revolution of Dignity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Maidan (2014 film) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

4. Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
We can both read that verse and see what we want to see. It has nothing to do with communism.

Acts 4: 32-37 - Study Through the Word

Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great […]

studythroughtheword.com

"You could summarize this passage with three points. 1) The faithful were of one mind. 2) They shared what they had with each other. 3) The apostles testified to Jesus’ resurrection."

5/6. Commies stay, capitalists, leave. How about that? Did you like that Bubba? You have this weird idea that Christians can be capitalists, but not communists.
Good luck with that commie takeover of the US using your new ministry. That is just plain stupid. Christians can be anything, but in Russia the commies went for atheism to avoid dealing with the Church.

Solzhenitsyn’s Warning: Communism always begins with Atheism

Jeremiah 2:31 “Why do My people say, ‘We have dominion; we will come to You no more?” The Templeton Award honors individuals who have devoted their lives to helping us understand who Go…

fse.life

7. The US through its foreign policy (warmongering, economic sanctions, orchestrated coups) creates the conditions that force people to leave their countries and come here.
Actually its communist dictators like Maduro in Venezuela that are the failures that cause people to migrate to the capitalist US for a better life