Should the United States go back to a top federal tax rate of 70%?

[U2Edge]

Not true. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP was the same in 2017 as it was in 1976. The record for Federal spending as a percentage of GDP were the World War II years.

Its alleged that few people ever paid the highest rates from 1945 to 1980, but I have seen no proof of that except that the Budget was usually not balanced and or in surplus despite the higher top federal tax rates. Either way its debatable. What is not debatable is that the current top federal rate is too low. Most first world countries have a much higher top federal tax rate than the United States and then you have the historically higher top federal tax rates in the United States from 1945 to 1980, regardless of the debate about what people may or may not have been paying in reality.

1. Taxation is NOT THEFT
2. THE MARKET decides how much someone makes in their salary, the value of their home etc., not the worker.
3. The Worker did not create THE MARKET, he was born into it. Being lucky enough to be born into the U.S. market provides that worker unparalleled opportunity to exploit it and make large sums of money. But make no mistake, that MARKET was created by others who built it and risked their lives to defend it in multiple wars, long before the worker was even born.
4. The workers who BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE MARKET are morally obligated to pay a much higher tax rate.


Again, these 6 items are 86% of the federal budget:

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest on the debt
6. Veterans Benefits.

Only a national emergency could ever justify seriously cutting any of these areas. Without Social Security and Medicare, you would create extreme poverty among older people which will have a serious negative impact on the rest of the country. The Standard Of Living in the rest of the country would drop, essentially turning the United States into a third world country when it comes to average standard of living.

All countries in the first world provide similar programs like Social Security and Medicare to its citizens. Its only in the THIRD WORLD that they don't. We don't want are society to become more structured and like that of the average country in Sub Saharan Africa. It would in the long run weaken the country in many ways. Social Security and Medicare came about after the experience of the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930s. The vast majority of the population wants the programs continued and there is NO serious candidate for President that plans to do away with these programs. Even Donald Trump supports these programs.

You are confused.

Taxation can be thievery just like an alley mugging. In a welfare state like this country has now it is a state sponsored mugging.

Democracy can be just as oppressive as any other kind of government. It can rob you of liberty just like any other kind of government. It can steal your money just like any other kind of government.

When the majority uses the filthy ass government to require that I give them my money that is thievery just like any other kind of thievery.

When the fucking government takes the money that I make and gives to some filthy ass welfare queen or Illegal that is thievery as sure as hell.

I'm not confused because I understand how the United States and the United States market were built. What you EARN is decided by the U.S. Market. In return for the benefit of being able to earn money and exploit that U.S. market, you must give back some of what you earned in taxes. Without the MARKET you would not have that money. Its as simple as that.

If you don't like that system, your free to move to Somalia where there is no government and no taxes to pay to a government. None of this alleged theft you claim of in Somalia by a central government. Sounds like your dream environment.

careful there U2 youre bordering on fascism with this one,,,

"In return for the benefit of being able to earn money and exploit that U.S. market,"

taxs are meant to pay the debts of the country and not so the feds can stick their hand in my pocket because I decided to work for a living

Any money you receive from work you do in this country comes from the U.S. market. That simple fact means you must pay back some of that money in taxes. Its how the system works.

Government is not fascism. Without the U.S. government, the U.S. market, from where you received the money for your work, would cease to exist.

Remember, your lucky you were born in the United States. Imagine what your life would be like if you were born in Somalia. Somalia does not sound like a lot of fun, but at least there would be no government stealing "your money".

lets stay away from the world of make believe and talk reality


where in the constitution is that stated???

It does not have to be stated in the constitution for it to be a fact. What your house is worth is decided by THE MARKET, not the U.S. constitution.

 

[progressive hunter]

You are confused.

Taxation can be thievery just like an alley mugging. In a welfare state like this country has now it is a state sponsored mugging.

Democracy can be just as oppressive as any other kind of government. It can rob you of liberty just like any other kind of government. It can steal your money just like any other kind of government.

When the majority uses the filthy ass government to require that I give them my money that is thievery just like any other kind of thievery.

When the fucking government takes the money that I make and gives to some filthy ass welfare queen or Illegal that is thievery as sure as hell.

I'm not confused because I understand how the United States and the United States market were built. What you EARN is decided by the U.S. Market. In return for the benefit of being able to earn money and exploit that U.S. market, you must give back some of what you earned in taxes. Without the MARKET you would not have that money. Its as simple as that.

If you don't like that system, your free to move to Somalia where there is no government and no taxes to pay to a government. None of this alleged theft you claim of in Somalia by a central government. Sounds like your dream environment.

careful there U2 youre bordering on fascism with this one,,,

"In return for the benefit of being able to earn money and exploit that U.S. market,"

taxs are meant to pay the debts of the country and not so the feds can stick their hand in my pocket because I decided to work for a living

Any money you receive from work you do in this country comes from the U.S. market. That simple fact means you must pay back some of that money in taxes. Its how the system works.

Government is not fascism. Without the U.S. government, the U.S. market, from where you received the money for your work, would cease to exist.

Remember, your lucky you were born in the United States. Imagine what your life would be like if you were born in Somalia. Somalia does not sound like a lot of fun, but at least there would be no government stealing "your money".

lets stay away from the world of make believe and talk reality


where in the constitution is that stated???

It does not have to be stated in the constitution for it to be a fact. What your house is worth is decided by THE MARKET, not the U.S. constitution.

if it takes the use of a gun it better damn well be in the constitution


I'm sure you will be one of the cowards that wont hold that gun themselves

 

[U2Edge]

[


Most European countries have higher tax rates and are very successful at collecting a lot more revenue for the government as a percentage of GDP. There are several countries in Europe that have revenue collection rates that are 55% of annual GDP. In the United States, revenue collection is only 22% of annual GDP because of the much lower tax rates. So there is a lot of room to raise the top federal rate and the United States would benefit as a result.

Two things that you are missing.

The way the tax code was structured very few people ever paid at that rate. The loopholes were such that the rich were able to shield their income from being taxed at that rate.

The second thing is that the combined cost of government was lower at that time meaning less tax burden for everybody, including the rich. People paid less Federal, State and Local taxes. About 50% less for a good portion of that time frame.

It is immoral to use the government steal money from somebody else so that I can benefit. Nothing more than thievery. Progressive taxation is immoral as hell.

There are certain legitimate functions of government. Defense, police, roads, courts etc. We should all be taxed equally to pay our share the needed things. Progressive taxation is just another filthy ass way of the greedy welfare queens to raise revenue to get their free stuff and it is wrong. After all Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for supper.

The welfare queens demand to use the government to steal from the rich so they don't have to pay their own bills. Disgusting, isn't it?

Not true. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP was the same in 2017 as it was in 1976. The record for Federal spending as a percentage of GDP were the World War II years.

Its alleged that few people ever paid the highest rates from 1945 to 1980, but I have seen no proof of that except that the Budget was usually not balanced and or in surplus despite the higher top federal tax rates. Either way its debatable. What is not debatable is that the current top federal rate is too low. Most first world countries have a much higher top federal tax rate than the United States and then you have the historically higher top federal tax rates in the United States from 1945 to 1980, regardless of the debate about what people may or may not have been paying in reality.

1. Taxation is NOT THEFT
2. THE MARKET decides how much someone makes in their salary, the value of their home etc., not the worker.
3. The Worker did not create THE MARKET, he was born into it. Being lucky enough to be born into the U.S. market provides that worker unparalleled opportunity to exploit it and make large sums of money. But make no mistake, that MARKET was created by others who built it and risked their lives to defend it in multiple wars, long before the worker was even born.
4. The workers who BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE MARKET are morally obligated to pay a much higher tax rate.


Again, these 6 items are 86% of the federal budget:

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest on the debt
6. Veterans Benefits.

Only a national emergency could ever justify seriously cutting any of these areas. Without Social Security and Medicare, you would create extreme poverty among older people which will have a serious negative impact on the rest of the country. The Standard Of Living in the rest of the country would drop, essentially turning the United States into a third world country when it comes to average standard of living.

All countries in the first world provide similar programs like Social Security and Medicare to its citizens. Its only in the THIRD WORLD that they don't. We don't want are society to become more structured and like that of the average country in Sub Saharan Africa. It would in the long run weaken the country in many ways. Social Security and Medicare came about after the experience of the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930s. The vast majority of the population wants the programs continued and there is NO serious candidate for President that plans to do away with these programs. Even Donald Trump supports these programs.

if taxation isnt theft then why do they use a gun???

Your salary, the value of your home, property, is decided by the United Sates MARKET. Since you get your money from the U.S. market, you owe the U.S. government some of that money back in taxes. The laws of the U.S. government and the U.S. military created and allow the U.S. market to continue to exist. Since you born into this system and receive money from it and exploit it, you must give some money back in the form of taxes to help keep it going. The U.S. market and its wealth was here long before you were born. You were just lucky enough to be born into it. The more successful you are in this market and country, the more you must give back in order to keep it going.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Taxes are the way to raise money to pay government bills.

There is a legitimate need for some minimal government services like defense, courts, police etc. Nobody has any problem paying their fair share of that.

However, we live in big bloated, out of control debt ridden welfare state that spend $4 trillion a year mostly on non necessary shit like welfare and entitlements and almost any kind of wasteful expenditure you can think of.

Greedy assholes have learned they can use the government to steal what they don't earn themselves. That $4 trillion a year is one hellva honey pot for the taking, isn't it? That is despicable, isn't it?

Meanwhile productive people get the bill for that thievery. It is called taxes. Go look it up,

86% of that 4 trillion is spent on these 6 items

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest payments on the debt
6. Veterans benefits

I'm willing to bet you will probably collect your social security and use Medicare insurance once you qualify for it. Your views on cutting these things will seem very hypocritical then.

 

[progressive hunter]

Two things that you are missing.

The way the tax code was structured very few people ever paid at that rate. The loopholes were such that the rich were able to shield their income from being taxed at that rate.

The second thing is that the combined cost of government was lower at that time meaning less tax burden for everybody, including the rich. People paid less Federal, State and Local taxes. About 50% less for a good portion of that time frame.

It is immoral to use the government steal money from somebody else so that I can benefit. Nothing more than thievery. Progressive taxation is immoral as hell.

There are certain legitimate functions of government. Defense, police, roads, courts etc. We should all be taxed equally to pay our share the needed things. Progressive taxation is just another filthy ass way of the greedy welfare queens to raise revenue to get their free stuff and it is wrong. After all Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for supper.

The welfare queens demand to use the government to steal from the rich so they don't have to pay their own bills. Disgusting, isn't it?

Not true. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP was the same in 2017 as it was in 1976. The record for Federal spending as a percentage of GDP were the World War II years.

Its alleged that few people ever paid the highest rates from 1945 to 1980, but I have seen no proof of that except that the Budget was usually not balanced and or in surplus despite the higher top federal tax rates. Either way its debatable. What is not debatable is that the current top federal rate is too low. Most first world countries have a much higher top federal tax rate than the United States and then you have the historically higher top federal tax rates in the United States from 1945 to 1980, regardless of the debate about what people may or may not have been paying in reality.

1. Taxation is NOT THEFT
2. THE MARKET decides how much someone makes in their salary, the value of their home etc., not the worker.
3. The Worker did not create THE MARKET, he was born into it. Being lucky enough to be born into the U.S. market provides that worker unparalleled opportunity to exploit it and make large sums of money. But make no mistake, that MARKET was created by others who built it and risked their lives to defend it in multiple wars, long before the worker was even born.
4. The workers who BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE MARKET are morally obligated to pay a much higher tax rate.


Again, these 6 items are 86% of the federal budget:

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest on the debt
6. Veterans Benefits.

Only a national emergency could ever justify seriously cutting any of these areas. Without Social Security and Medicare, you would create extreme poverty among older people which will have a serious negative impact on the rest of the country. The Standard Of Living in the rest of the country would drop, essentially turning the United States into a third world country when it comes to average standard of living.

All countries in the first world provide similar programs like Social Security and Medicare to its citizens. Its only in the THIRD WORLD that they don't. We don't want are society to become more structured and like that of the average country in Sub Saharan Africa. It would in the long run weaken the country in many ways. Social Security and Medicare came about after the experience of the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930s. The vast majority of the population wants the programs continued and there is NO serious candidate for President that plans to do away with these programs. Even Donald Trump supports these programs.

if taxation isnt theft then why do they use a gun???

Your salary, the value of your home, property, is decided by the United Sates MARKET. Since you get your money from the U.S. market, you owe the U.S. government some of that money back in taxes. The laws of the U.S. government and the U.S. military created and allow the U.S. market to continue to exist. Since you born into this system and receive money from it and exploit it, you must give some money back in the form of taxes to help keep it going. The U.S. market and its wealth was here long before you were born. You were just lucky enough to be born into it. The more successful you are in this market and country, the more you must give back in order to keep it going.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Taxes are the way to raise money to pay government bills.

There is a legitimate need for some minimal government services like defense, courts, police etc. Nobody has any problem paying their fair share of that.

However, we live in big bloated, out of control debt ridden welfare state that spend $4 trillion a year mostly on non necessary shit like welfare and entitlements and almost any kind of wasteful expenditure you can think of.

Greedy assholes have learned they can use the government to steal what they don't earn themselves. That $4 trillion a year is one hellva honey pot for the taking, isn't it? That is despicable, isn't it?

Meanwhile productive people get the bill for that thievery. It is called taxes. Go look it up,

86% of that 4 trillion is spent on these 6 items

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest payments on the debt
6. Veterans benefits

I'm willing to bet you will probably collect your social security and use Medicare insurance once you qualify for it. Your views on cutting these things will seem very hypocritical then.

you keep changing the subject...

 

[U2Edge]

I'm not confused because I understand how the United States and the United States market were built. What you EARN is decided by the U.S. Market. In return for the benefit of being able to earn money and exploit that U.S. market, you must give back some of what you earned in taxes. Without the MARKET you would not have that money. Its as simple as that.

If you don't like that system, your free to move to Somalia where there is no government and no taxes to pay to a government. None of this alleged theft you claim of in Somalia by a central government. Sounds like your dream environment.

careful there U2 youre bordering on fascism with this one,,,

"In return for the benefit of being able to earn money and exploit that U.S. market,"

taxs are meant to pay the debts of the country and not so the feds can stick their hand in my pocket because I decided to work for a living

Any money you receive from work you do in this country comes from the U.S. market. That simple fact means you must pay back some of that money in taxes. Its how the system works.

Government is not fascism. Without the U.S. government, the U.S. market, from where you received the money for your work, would cease to exist.

Remember, your lucky you were born in the United States. Imagine what your life would be like if you were born in Somalia. Somalia does not sound like a lot of fun, but at least there would be no government stealing "your money".

lets stay away from the world of make believe and talk reality


where in the constitution is that stated???

It does not have to be stated in the constitution for it to be a fact. What your house is worth is decided by THE MARKET, not the U.S. constitution.

if it takes the use of a gun it better damn well be in the constitution


I'm sure you will be one of the cowards that wont hold that gun themselves

Social Security and Medicare do not violate the constitution. If you think they do, then I guess you won't participate in those programs once you become eligible for them, right?

 

[U2Edge]

Not true. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP was the same in 2017 as it was in 1976. The record for Federal spending as a percentage of GDP were the World War II years.

Its alleged that few people ever paid the highest rates from 1945 to 1980, but I have seen no proof of that except that the Budget was usually not balanced and or in surplus despite the higher top federal tax rates. Either way its debatable. What is not debatable is that the current top federal rate is too low. Most first world countries have a much higher top federal tax rate than the United States and then you have the historically higher top federal tax rates in the United States from 1945 to 1980, regardless of the debate about what people may or may not have been paying in reality.

1. Taxation is NOT THEFT
2. THE MARKET decides how much someone makes in their salary, the value of their home etc., not the worker.
3. The Worker did not create THE MARKET, he was born into it. Being lucky enough to be born into the U.S. market provides that worker unparalleled opportunity to exploit it and make large sums of money. But make no mistake, that MARKET was created by others who built it and risked their lives to defend it in multiple wars, long before the worker was even born.
4. The workers who BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE MARKET are morally obligated to pay a much higher tax rate.


Again, these 6 items are 86% of the federal budget:

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest on the debt
6. Veterans Benefits.

Only a national emergency could ever justify seriously cutting any of these areas. Without Social Security and Medicare, you would create extreme poverty among older people which will have a serious negative impact on the rest of the country. The Standard Of Living in the rest of the country would drop, essentially turning the United States into a third world country when it comes to average standard of living.

All countries in the first world provide similar programs like Social Security and Medicare to its citizens. Its only in the THIRD WORLD that they don't. We don't want are society to become more structured and like that of the average country in Sub Saharan Africa. It would in the long run weaken the country in many ways. Social Security and Medicare came about after the experience of the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930s. The vast majority of the population wants the programs continued and there is NO serious candidate for President that plans to do away with these programs. Even Donald Trump supports these programs.

if taxation isnt theft then why do they use a gun???

Your salary, the value of your home, property, is decided by the United Sates MARKET. Since you get your money from the U.S. market, you owe the U.S. government some of that money back in taxes. The laws of the U.S. government and the U.S. military created and allow the U.S. market to continue to exist. Since you born into this system and receive money from it and exploit it, you must give some money back in the form of taxes to help keep it going. The U.S. market and its wealth was here long before you were born. You were just lucky enough to be born into it. The more successful you are in this market and country, the more you must give back in order to keep it going.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Taxes are the way to raise money to pay government bills.

There is a legitimate need for some minimal government services like defense, courts, police etc. Nobody has any problem paying their fair share of that.

However, we live in big bloated, out of control debt ridden welfare state that spend $4 trillion a year mostly on non necessary shit like welfare and entitlements and almost any kind of wasteful expenditure you can think of.

Greedy assholes have learned they can use the government to steal what they don't earn themselves. That $4 trillion a year is one hellva honey pot for the taking, isn't it? That is despicable, isn't it?

Meanwhile productive people get the bill for that thievery. It is called taxes. Go look it up,

86% of that 4 trillion is spent on these 6 items

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest payments on the debt
6. Veterans benefits

I'm willing to bet you will probably collect your social security and use Medicare insurance once you qualify for it. Your views on cutting these things will seem very hypocritical then.

you keep changing the subject...

Its my thread, were still on topic.

 

[Flash]

Not true. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP was the same in 2017 as it was in 1976. The record for Federal spending as a percentage of GDP were the World War II years.

Its alleged that few people ever paid the highest rates from 1945 to 1980, but I have seen no proof of that except that the Budget was usually not balanced and or in surplus despite the higher top federal tax rates. Either way its debatable. What is not debatable is that the current top federal rate is too low. Most first world countries have a much higher top federal tax rate than the United States and then you have the historically higher top federal tax rates in the United States from 1945 to 1980, regardless of the debate about what people may or may not have been paying in reality.

1. Taxation is NOT THEFT
2. THE MARKET decides how much someone makes in their salary, the value of their home etc., not the worker.
3. The Worker did not create THE MARKET, he was born into it. Being lucky enough to be born into the U.S. market provides that worker unparalleled opportunity to exploit it and make large sums of money. But make no mistake, that MARKET was created by others who built it and risked their lives to defend it in multiple wars, long before the worker was even born.
4. The workers who BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE MARKET are morally obligated to pay a much higher tax rate.


Again, these 6 items are 86% of the federal budget:

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest on the debt
6. Veterans Benefits.

Only a national emergency could ever justify seriously cutting any of these areas. Without Social Security and Medicare, you would create extreme poverty among older people which will have a serious negative impact on the rest of the country. The Standard Of Living in the rest of the country would drop, essentially turning the United States into a third world country when it comes to average standard of living.

All countries in the first world provide similar programs like Social Security and Medicare to its citizens. Its only in the THIRD WORLD that they don't. We don't want are society to become more structured and like that of the average country in Sub Saharan Africa. It would in the long run weaken the country in many ways. Social Security and Medicare came about after the experience of the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930s. The vast majority of the population wants the programs continued and there is NO serious candidate for President that plans to do away with these programs. Even Donald Trump supports these programs.

if taxation isnt theft then why do they use a gun???

Your salary, the value of your home, property, is decided by the United Sates MARKET. Since you get your money from the U.S. market, you owe the U.S. government some of that money back in taxes. The laws of the U.S. government and the U.S. military created and allow the U.S. market to continue to exist. Since you born into this system and receive money from it and exploit it, you must give some money back in the form of taxes to help keep it going. The U.S. market and its wealth was here long before you were born. You were just lucky enough to be born into it. The more successful you are in this market and country, the more you must give back in order to keep it going.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Taxes are the way to raise money to pay government bills.

There is a legitimate need for some minimal government services like defense, courts, police etc. Nobody has any problem paying their fair share of that.

However, we live in big bloated, out of control debt ridden welfare state that spend $4 trillion a year mostly on non necessary shit like welfare and entitlements and almost any kind of wasteful expenditure you can think of.

Greedy assholes have learned they can use the government to steal what they don't earn themselves. That $4 trillion a year is one hellva honey pot for the taking, isn't it? That is despicable, isn't it?

Meanwhile productive people get the bill for that thievery. It is called taxes. Go look it up,

86% of that 4 trillion is spent on these 6 items

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest payments on the debt
6. Veterans benefits

I'm willing to bet you will probably collect your social security and use Medicare insurance once you qualify for it. Your views on cutting these things will seem very hypocritical then.

you keep changing the subject...

That is because he/she is confused.

Nobody can defend this big bloated out of control debt ridden liberty robbing oppressive government that we have. When challenged on it the defender will try to change the subject because they have nothing.

 

[danielpalos]

[


Most European countries have higher tax rates and are very successful at collecting a lot more revenue for the government as a percentage of GDP. There are several countries in Europe that have revenue collection rates that are 55% of annual GDP. In the United States, revenue collection is only 22% of annual GDP because of the much lower tax rates. So there is a lot of room to raise the top federal rate and the United States would benefit as a result.

Two things that you are missing.

The way the tax code was structured very few people ever paid at that rate. The loopholes were such that the rich were able to shield their income from being taxed at that rate.

The second thing is that the combined cost of government was lower at that time meaning less tax burden for everybody, including the rich. People paid less Federal, State and Local taxes. About 50% less for a good portion of that time frame.

It is immoral to use the government steal money from somebody else so that I can benefit. Nothing more than thievery. Progressive taxation is immoral as hell.

There are certain legitimate functions of government. Defense, police, roads, courts etc. We should all be taxed equally to pay our share the needed things. Progressive taxation is just another filthy ass way of the greedy welfare queens to raise revenue to get their free stuff and it is wrong. After all Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for supper.

The welfare queens demand to use the government to steal from the rich so they don't have to pay their own bills. Disgusting, isn't it?

Not true. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP was the same in 2017 as it was in 1976. The record for Federal spending as a percentage of GDP were the World War II years.

Its alleged that few people ever paid the highest rates from 1945 to 1980, but I have seen no proof of that except that the Budget was usually not balanced and or in surplus despite the higher top federal tax rates. Either way its debatable. What is not debatable is that the current top federal rate is too low. Most first world countries have a much higher top federal tax rate than the United States and then you have the historically higher top federal tax rates in the United States from 1945 to 1980, regardless of the debate about what people may or may not have been paying in reality.

1. Taxation is NOT THEFT
2. THE MARKET decides how much someone makes in their salary, the value of their home etc., not the worker.
3. The Worker did not create THE MARKET, he was born into it. Being lucky enough to be born into the U.S. market provides that worker unparalleled opportunity to exploit it and make large sums of money. But make no mistake, that MARKET was created by others who built it and risked their lives to defend it in multiple wars, long before the worker was even born.
4. The workers who BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE MARKET are morally obligated to pay a much higher tax rate.


Again, these 6 items are 86% of the federal budget:

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest on the debt
6. Veterans Benefits.

Only a national emergency could ever justify seriously cutting any of these areas. Without Social Security and Medicare, you would create extreme poverty among older people which will have a serious negative impact on the rest of the country. The Standard Of Living in the rest of the country would drop, essentially turning the United States into a third world country when it comes to average standard of living.

All countries in the first world provide similar programs like Social Security and Medicare to its citizens. Its only in the THIRD WORLD that they don't. We don't want are society to become more structured and like that of the average country in Sub Saharan Africa. It would in the long run weaken the country in many ways. Social Security and Medicare came about after the experience of the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930s. The vast majority of the population wants the programs continued and there is NO serious candidate for President that plans to do away with these programs. Even Donald Trump supports these programs.

if taxation isnt theft then why do they use a gun???

selfish right wingers?

 

[danielpalos]

[


Most European countries have higher tax rates and are very successful at collecting a lot more revenue for the government as a percentage of GDP. There are several countries in Europe that have revenue collection rates that are 55% of annual GDP. In the United States, revenue collection is only 22% of annual GDP because of the much lower tax rates. So there is a lot of room to raise the top federal rate and the United States would benefit as a result.

Two things that you are missing.

The way the tax code was structured very few people ever paid at that rate. The loopholes were such that the rich were able to shield their income from being taxed at that rate.

The second thing is that the combined cost of government was lower at that time meaning less tax burden for everybody, including the rich. People paid less Federal, State and Local taxes. About 50% less for a good portion of that time frame.

It is immoral to use the government steal money from somebody else so that I can benefit. Nothing more than thievery. Progressive taxation is immoral as hell.

There are certain legitimate functions of government. Defense, police, roads, courts etc. We should all be taxed equally to pay our share the needed things. Progressive taxation is just another filthy ass way of the greedy welfare queens to raise revenue to get their free stuff and it is wrong. After all Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for supper.

The welfare queens demand to use the government to steal from the rich so they don't have to pay their own bills. Disgusting, isn't it?

Not true. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP was the same in 2017 as it was in 1976. The record for Federal spending as a percentage of GDP were the World War II years.

Its alleged that few people ever paid the highest rates from 1945 to 1980, but I have seen no proof of that except that the Budget was usually not balanced and or in surplus despite the higher top federal tax rates. Either way its debatable. What is not debatable is that the current top federal rate is too low. Most first world countries have a much higher top federal tax rate than the United States and then you have the historically higher top federal tax rates in the United States from 1945 to 1980, regardless of the debate about what people may or may not have been paying in reality.

1. Taxation is NOT THEFT
2. THE MARKET decides how much someone makes in their salary, the value of their home etc., not the worker.
3. The Worker did not create THE MARKET, he was born into it. Being lucky enough to be born into the U.S. market provides that worker unparalleled opportunity to exploit it and make large sums of money. But make no mistake, that MARKET was created by others who built it and risked their lives to defend it in multiple wars, long before the worker was even born.
4. The workers who BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE MARKET are morally obligated to pay a much higher tax rate.


Again, these 6 items are 86% of the federal budget:

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest on the debt
6. Veterans Benefits.

Only a national emergency could ever justify seriously cutting any of these areas. Without Social Security and Medicare, you would create extreme poverty among older people which will have a serious negative impact on the rest of the country. The Standard Of Living in the rest of the country would drop, essentially turning the United States into a third world country when it comes to average standard of living.

All countries in the first world provide similar programs like Social Security and Medicare to its citizens. Its only in the THIRD WORLD that they don't. We don't want are society to become more structured and like that of the average country in Sub Saharan Africa. It would in the long run weaken the country in many ways. Social Security and Medicare came about after the experience of the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930s. The vast majority of the population wants the programs continued and there is NO serious candidate for President that plans to do away with these programs. Even Donald Trump supports these programs.

You are confused.

Taxation can be thievery just like an alley mugging. In a welfare state like this country has now it is a state sponsored mugging.

Democracy can be just as oppressive as any other kind of government. It can rob you of liberty just like any other kind of government. It can steal your money just like any other kind of government.

When the majority uses the filthy ass government to require that I give them my money that is thievery just like any other kind of thievery.

When the fucking government takes the money that I make and gives to some filthy ass welfare queen or Illegal that is thievery as sure as hell.

blame the Poor; it really is all the right wing prefers to do.

 

[progressive hunter]

if taxation isnt theft then why do they use a gun???

Your salary, the value of your home, property, is decided by the United Sates MARKET. Since you get your money from the U.S. market, you owe the U.S. government some of that money back in taxes. The laws of the U.S. government and the U.S. military created and allow the U.S. market to continue to exist. Since you born into this system and receive money from it and exploit it, you must give some money back in the form of taxes to help keep it going. The U.S. market and its wealth was here long before you were born. You were just lucky enough to be born into it. The more successful you are in this market and country, the more you must give back in order to keep it going.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Taxes are the way to raise money to pay government bills.

There is a legitimate need for some minimal government services like defense, courts, police etc. Nobody has any problem paying their fair share of that.

However, we live in big bloated, out of control debt ridden welfare state that spend $4 trillion a year mostly on non necessary shit like welfare and entitlements and almost any kind of wasteful expenditure you can think of.

Greedy assholes have learned they can use the government to steal what they don't earn themselves. That $4 trillion a year is one hellva honey pot for the taking, isn't it? That is despicable, isn't it?

Meanwhile productive people get the bill for that thievery. It is called taxes. Go look it up,

86% of that 4 trillion is spent on these 6 items

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest payments on the debt
6. Veterans benefits

I'm willing to bet you will probably collect your social security and use Medicare insurance once you qualify for it. Your views on cutting these things will seem very hypocritical then.

you keep changing the subject...

Its my thread, were still on topic.

but you and I were discussing taxs and where in the constitution it is as you claim

and if I owe the free market system for the privilege of making money, whats that got to do with government and taxs???

they are two different things,,,the market existed long before governments and will still exist long after governments fail

in fact the markets only exist be cause I/we are in it,,,so it sounds like it owes me/us more than I/we owe it

 

[Thinker101]

[


Most European countries have higher tax rates and are very successful at collecting a lot more revenue for the government as a percentage of GDP. There are several countries in Europe that have revenue collection rates that are 55% of annual GDP. In the United States, revenue collection is only 22% of annual GDP because of the much lower tax rates. So there is a lot of room to raise the top federal rate and the United States would benefit as a result.

Two things that you are missing.

The way the tax code was structured very few people ever paid at that rate. The loopholes were such that the rich were able to shield their income from being taxed at that rate.

The second thing is that the combined cost of government was lower at that time meaning less tax burden for everybody, including the rich. People paid less Federal, State and Local taxes. About 50% less for a good portion of that time frame.

It is immoral to use the government steal money from somebody else so that I can benefit. Nothing more than thievery. Progressive taxation is immoral as hell.

There are certain legitimate functions of government. Defense, police, roads, courts etc. We should all be taxed equally to pay our share the needed things. Progressive taxation is just another filthy ass way of the greedy welfare queens to raise revenue to get their free stuff and it is wrong. After all Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for supper.

The welfare queens demand to use the government to steal from the rich so they don't have to pay their own bills. Disgusting, isn't it?

Not true. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP was the same in 2017 as it was in 1976. The record for Federal spending as a percentage of GDP were the World War II years.

Its alleged that few people ever paid the highest rates from 1945 to 1980, but I have seen no proof of that except that the Budget was usually not balanced and or in surplus despite the higher top federal tax rates. Either way its debatable. What is not debatable is that the current top federal rate is too low. Most first world countries have a much higher top federal tax rate than the United States and then you have the historically higher top federal tax rates in the United States from 1945 to 1980, regardless of the debate about what people may or may not have been paying in reality.

1. Taxation is NOT THEFT
2. THE MARKET decides how much someone makes in their salary, the value of their home etc., not the worker.
3. The Worker did not create THE MARKET, he was born into it. Being lucky enough to be born into the U.S. market provides that worker unparalleled opportunity to exploit it and make large sums of money. But make no mistake, that MARKET was created by others who built it and risked their lives to defend it in multiple wars, long before the worker was even born.
4. The workers who BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE MARKET are morally obligated to pay a much higher tax rate.


Again, these 6 items are 86% of the federal budget:

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest on the debt
6. Veterans Benefits.

Only a national emergency could ever justify seriously cutting any of these areas. Without Social Security and Medicare, you would create extreme poverty among older people which will have a serious negative impact on the rest of the country. The Standard Of Living in the rest of the country would drop, essentially turning the United States into a third world country when it comes to average standard of living.

All countries in the first world provide similar programs like Social Security and Medicare to its citizens. Its only in the THIRD WORLD that they don't. We don't want are society to become more structured and like that of the average country in Sub Saharan Africa. It would in the long run weaken the country in many ways. Social Security and Medicare came about after the experience of the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930s. The vast majority of the population wants the programs continued and there is NO serious candidate for President that plans to do away with these programs. Even Donald Trump supports these programs.

You are confused.

Taxation can be thievery just like an alley mugging. In a welfare state like this country has now it is a state sponsored mugging.

Democracy can be just as oppressive as any other kind of government. It can rob you of liberty just like any other kind of government. It can steal your money just like any other kind of government.

When the majority uses the filthy ass government to require that I give them my money that is thievery just like any other kind of thievery.

When the fucking government takes the money that I make and gives to some filthy ass welfare queen or Illegal that is thievery as sure as hell.

blame the Poor; it really is all the right wing prefers to do.

Create the poor, that's what the left wing prefers....dumbass.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

careful there U2 youre bordering on fascism with this one,,,

"In return for the benefit of being able to earn money and exploit that U.S. market,"

taxs are meant to pay the debts of the country and not so the feds can stick their hand in my pocket because I decided to work for a living

Any money you receive from work you do in this country comes from the U.S. market. That simple fact means you must pay back some of that money in taxes. Its how the system works.

Government is not fascism. Without the U.S. government, the U.S. market, from where you received the money for your work, would cease to exist.

Remember, your lucky you were born in the United States. Imagine what your life would be like if you were born in Somalia. Somalia does not sound like a lot of fun, but at least there would be no government stealing "your money".

lets stay away from the world of make believe and talk reality


where in the constitution is that stated???

It does not have to be stated in the constitution for it to be a fact. What your house is worth is decided by THE MARKET, not the U.S. constitution.

if it takes the use of a gun it better damn well be in the constitution


I'm sure you will be one of the cowards that wont hold that gun themselves

Social Security and Medicare do not violate the constitution. If you think they do, then I guess you won't participate in those programs once you become eligible for them, right?

Why would somebody not participate in them if they were FORCED to be in them?


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Flash]

[


Most European countries have higher tax rates and are very successful at collecting a lot more revenue for the government as a percentage of GDP. There are several countries in Europe that have revenue collection rates that are 55% of annual GDP. In the United States, revenue collection is only 22% of annual GDP because of the much lower tax rates. So there is a lot of room to raise the top federal rate and the United States would benefit as a result.

Two things that you are missing.

The way the tax code was structured very few people ever paid at that rate. The loopholes were such that the rich were able to shield their income from being taxed at that rate.

The second thing is that the combined cost of government was lower at that time meaning less tax burden for everybody, including the rich. People paid less Federal, State and Local taxes. About 50% less for a good portion of that time frame.

It is immoral to use the government steal money from somebody else so that I can benefit. Nothing more than thievery. Progressive taxation is immoral as hell.

There are certain legitimate functions of government. Defense, police, roads, courts etc. We should all be taxed equally to pay our share the needed things. Progressive taxation is just another filthy ass way of the greedy welfare queens to raise revenue to get their free stuff and it is wrong. After all Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for supper.

The welfare queens demand to use the government to steal from the rich so they don't have to pay their own bills. Disgusting, isn't it?

Not true. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP was the same in 2017 as it was in 1976. The record for Federal spending as a percentage of GDP were the World War II years.

Its alleged that few people ever paid the highest rates from 1945 to 1980, but I have seen no proof of that except that the Budget was usually not balanced and or in surplus despite the higher top federal tax rates. Either way its debatable. What is not debatable is that the current top federal rate is too low. Most first world countries have a much higher top federal tax rate than the United States and then you have the historically higher top federal tax rates in the United States from 1945 to 1980, regardless of the debate about what people may or may not have been paying in reality.

1. Taxation is NOT THEFT
2. THE MARKET decides how much someone makes in their salary, the value of their home etc., not the worker.
3. The Worker did not create THE MARKET, he was born into it. Being lucky enough to be born into the U.S. market provides that worker unparalleled opportunity to exploit it and make large sums of money. But make no mistake, that MARKET was created by others who built it and risked their lives to defend it in multiple wars, long before the worker was even born.
4. The workers who BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE MARKET are morally obligated to pay a much higher tax rate.


Again, these 6 items are 86% of the federal budget:

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest on the debt
6. Veterans Benefits.

Only a national emergency could ever justify seriously cutting any of these areas. Without Social Security and Medicare, you would create extreme poverty among older people which will have a serious negative impact on the rest of the country. The Standard Of Living in the rest of the country would drop, essentially turning the United States into a third world country when it comes to average standard of living.

All countries in the first world provide similar programs like Social Security and Medicare to its citizens. Its only in the THIRD WORLD that they don't. We don't want are society to become more structured and like that of the average country in Sub Saharan Africa. It would in the long run weaken the country in many ways. Social Security and Medicare came about after the experience of the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930s. The vast majority of the population wants the programs continued and there is NO serious candidate for President that plans to do away with these programs. Even Donald Trump supports these programs.

You are confused.

Taxation can be thievery just like an alley mugging. In a welfare state like this country has now it is a state sponsored mugging.

Democracy can be just as oppressive as any other kind of government. It can rob you of liberty just like any other kind of government. It can steal your money just like any other kind of government.

When the majority uses the filthy ass government to require that I give them my money that is thievery just like any other kind of thievery.

When the fucking government takes the money that I make and gives to some filthy ass welfare queen or Illegal that is thievery as sure as hell.

blame the Poor; it really is all the right wing prefers to do.

Create the poor, that's what the left wing prefers....dumbass.

Without welfare queens and Illegals the Democrat Party would be reduced to only the bat shit crazy Moon Bats.

 

[task0778]

The 70% rate is for the rich, a top federal rate, because even at such rates, the rich do not change their level of consumer spending. It does not hurt the economy and brings in much needed money for the treasury.

How much is it going to bring in for the Treasury?

It's not going to being anywhere near the extra revenue that the Lib/Dems think it will. They do this every single time, linear math just does not work and never has when it comes to raising marginal tax rate for the simple reason that nobody wants to play that ridiculously high rate and so they invest their money in ways that avoid paying anything close to 70%. Or they move their business and investments overseas somewhere. Time after time, country after country it has always played out the same - you NEVER get anywhere near the revenue you thought you would get, but you know what? Most of the lib/dems don't care, cuz for them it ain't about revenue, it's about mother fucking fairness. Obama admitted it, he'd raise rates on the wealthy even if it didn't raise an extra dime of revenue. They don't give a shit about the economy, they don't care about the impact on jobs and growth.

Look at Sweden in the 80s, look at Britain when they raised their rates, look at France what, 10 back or so, they raised rates and it didn't work. We've seen it here in the US, when states raise their marginal income tax rates, the rich guys leave for someplace else. The rich guys IN EVERY CASE said fuck you, I ain't paying that and they left or they changed their investing and the economy suffered as a result. So here's the reality: would you rather get $20 if a rich guy gets $80 or would you rather get $10 if the rich guy only gets $40?

As I pointed out earlier, federal taxes are not the only taxes the rich pay. If you take 70% of their income just for federal, think of the total after they pay state, county, and city taxes. They'd be paying somewhere between 85% and 90%. Who would work for only ten or fifteen percent of the money you make?

Ray, if someone's income bracket is in the 70% bracket -

out of curiousity, what percent do you think they pay on their 1st ten thousand dollars in income?

Ray, EVERYONE pays the same % in each bracket, allll the way up the ladder.....meaning theyd pay x-percent of dollars 0 through the end of bracket one, y-percent in the 2nd bracket and so forth.

the 70% number....not that im supporting it**

is 70% on just a PORTION of their overall income, not 70% of their total dollars


how many people do you think actually understand this shit?

I think the suggestion in the OP is taking 70% of their total income and that would be all levels combined.

The OP suggests to go back to the rates in 1980.

It wasnt an effective tax rate of all dollars, every dollar is taxed the same up all brackets...


a guy making 30k a year is taxed the same on his first 30k as a guy making 250k is taxed on HIS 1st 30k....

thats how tax brackets work.


70% is stupid, in my opinion..

but people think its WAY crazier than it is.....and a lot of the confusion is that they think its 70% on every dollar earned being taxed.

its not.

You're right, BUT it's also not 70% tax rate on income over $10 mil and 37% on everything below that. Is a rich guy gonna pay 65% on income between $9 mil and $10 mil? And 60% on income between $8 mil and 9 mil? And so on, down to what it is now, or are you going to raise the rates for those making over $500k, $400k, at what point does it match what we have now? It's one thing to raise the rates a few % points, but it's another to almost double it.

How many people are going to get hit with the 70%, and how many additional people will get hit with the 65%, and the 60% and on down. These are the people who invest in startups and expansions, and you cannot tell me that raising the tax hit on these people won't impact new business creation and existing business expansion, in most cases the reward won't match well with the risks. Not just for domestic investors but foreign ones too. Lib/Dems like to say there won't be an impact if you raise the marginal rates, but the rates below the marginal rate get kicked up too, right? It's craziness to believe that the rich guys will continue to do the same things they've been doing if you hammer them like that; these are the people that can afford to give the gov't the finger and move their money offshore somewhere, or into some kind of tax shelter or haven.

 

[Thinker101]

Two things that you are missing.

The way the tax code was structured very few people ever paid at that rate. The loopholes were such that the rich were able to shield their income from being taxed at that rate.

The second thing is that the combined cost of government was lower at that time meaning less tax burden for everybody, including the rich. People paid less Federal, State and Local taxes. About 50% less for a good portion of that time frame.

It is immoral to use the government steal money from somebody else so that I can benefit. Nothing more than thievery. Progressive taxation is immoral as hell.

There are certain legitimate functions of government. Defense, police, roads, courts etc. We should all be taxed equally to pay our share the needed things. Progressive taxation is just another filthy ass way of the greedy welfare queens to raise revenue to get their free stuff and it is wrong. After all Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for supper.

The welfare queens demand to use the government to steal from the rich so they don't have to pay their own bills. Disgusting, isn't it?

Not true. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP was the same in 2017 as it was in 1976. The record for Federal spending as a percentage of GDP were the World War II years.

Its alleged that few people ever paid the highest rates from 1945 to 1980, but I have seen no proof of that except that the Budget was usually not balanced and or in surplus despite the higher top federal tax rates. Either way its debatable. What is not debatable is that the current top federal rate is too low. Most first world countries have a much higher top federal tax rate than the United States and then you have the historically higher top federal tax rates in the United States from 1945 to 1980, regardless of the debate about what people may or may not have been paying in reality.

1. Taxation is NOT THEFT
2. THE MARKET decides how much someone makes in their salary, the value of their home etc., not the worker.
3. The Worker did not create THE MARKET, he was born into it. Being lucky enough to be born into the U.S. market provides that worker unparalleled opportunity to exploit it and make large sums of money. But make no mistake, that MARKET was created by others who built it and risked their lives to defend it in multiple wars, long before the worker was even born.
4. The workers who BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE MARKET are morally obligated to pay a much higher tax rate.


Again, these 6 items are 86% of the federal budget:

1. Defense
2. Social Security
3. Medicare
4. Medicaid
5. interest on the debt
6. Veterans Benefits.

Only a national emergency could ever justify seriously cutting any of these areas. Without Social Security and Medicare, you would create extreme poverty among older people which will have a serious negative impact on the rest of the country. The Standard Of Living in the rest of the country would drop, essentially turning the United States into a third world country when it comes to average standard of living.

All countries in the first world provide similar programs like Social Security and Medicare to its citizens. Its only in the THIRD WORLD that they don't. We don't want are society to become more structured and like that of the average country in Sub Saharan Africa. It would in the long run weaken the country in many ways. Social Security and Medicare came about after the experience of the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930s. The vast majority of the population wants the programs continued and there is NO serious candidate for President that plans to do away with these programs. Even Donald Trump supports these programs.

You are confused.

Taxation can be thievery just like an alley mugging. In a welfare state like this country has now it is a state sponsored mugging.

Democracy can be just as oppressive as any other kind of government. It can rob you of liberty just like any other kind of government. It can steal your money just like any other kind of government.

When the majority uses the filthy ass government to require that I give them my money that is thievery just like any other kind of thievery.

When the fucking government takes the money that I make and gives to some filthy ass welfare queen or Illegal that is thievery as sure as hell.

blame the Poor; it really is all the right wing prefers to do.

Create the poor, that's what the left wing prefers....dumbass.

Without welfare queens and Illegals the Democrat Party would be reduced to only the bat shit crazy Moon Bats.

It's only a matter of time before illegals become bat shit crazy Moon Bats, and the welfare queens, they always have been.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The 70% rate is for the rich, a top federal rate, because even at such rates, the rich do not change their level of consumer spending. It does not hurt the economy and brings in much needed money for the treasury.

How much is it going to bring in for the Treasury?

It's not going to being anywhere near the extra revenue that the Lib/Dems think it will. They do this every single time, linear math just does not work and never has when it comes to raising marginal tax rate for the simple reason that nobody wants to play that ridiculously high rate and so they invest their money in ways that avoid paying anything close to 70%. Or they move their business and investments overseas somewhere. Time after time, country after country it has always played out the same - you NEVER get anywhere near the revenue you thought you would get, but you know what? Most of the lib/dems don't care, cuz for them it ain't about revenue, it's about mother fucking fairness. Obama admitted it, he'd raise rates on the wealthy even if it didn't raise an extra dime of revenue. They don't give a shit about the economy, they don't care about the impact on jobs and growth.

Look at Sweden in the 80s, look at Britain when they raised their rates, look at France what, 10 back or so, they raised rates and it didn't work. We've seen it here in the US, when states raise their marginal income tax rates, the rich guys leave for someplace else. The rich guys IN EVERY CASE said fuck you, I ain't paying that and they left or they changed their investing and the economy suffered as a result. So here's the reality: would you rather get $20 if a rich guy gets $80 or would you rather get $10 if the rich guy only gets $40?

As I pointed out earlier, federal taxes are not the only taxes the rich pay. If you take 70% of their income just for federal, think of the total after they pay state, county, and city taxes. They'd be paying somewhere between 85% and 90%. Who would work for only ten or fifteen percent of the money you make?

The top federal rate kicks in on earnings made after a certain point, like $10 million dollars. Money made in the first $10 million is taxed at a lower rate. Worked just fine from 1945 to 1980 when the top federal rate was above 70% every year. In the 1950s it was above 80% every year. In 1951 the top federal rate was 92%.

And when Ronald Reagan realized those rich people were leaving the country and taking their jobs with them, he had to do something. So he lowered taxes to make it more inviting for them to stay in this country. Travel was becoming safer, technology was becoming more advanced, and rich people had less reason to stay here.

What you want to do is reverse everything he did that put this country back on track. What you’ll end up with is the same problem he had when he first became President only worse. I don’t care how bad people claim the last recession was, it was nothing compared to what took place in the early 80’s. I lived through both of them. At least in our last recession you could get a Burger King job. You couldn’t get one in the Reagan recession.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

The top federal tax rate was not lower in Europe, Japan and Australia when Reagan became President. The rich did not flee then at all. Again, the 50s, 60s, 70s saw some of the highest top federal tax rates in this countries history, but that is when many business's were built that continue to thrive today.

Maybe you were not around in the 80’s but I was. Companies and jobs have been leaving this country since the 70’s. Yes, unions had a lot to do with that but taxes were right along with them. When you can’t make money you simply move somewhere else.


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[Ray From Cleveland]

[

The truth of the matter is some have no choice but to be on welfare. .

Ray

You and I agree on almost everything but I will have to respectfully disagree that we should have a system where some people can go on welfare.

I just don't think the government should ever be in the business of taking money from somebody that earns it and giving it somebody else. No welfare, subsidizes, entitlements, grants or bailouts.

The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Charity can take care of the few that really need some help to survive. We don't need the government to institutionalize getting free stuff.

Charity does not always work, especially if you don’t subscribe to a religion.

Years ago my cousin got married and had two children. Her husband discovered drugs which eventually led to him losing a great job followed by their divorce. There she was with two small children and no income. Her entire dream shattered.

She went on welfare so she could raise her children. When they got old enough to attend school, she did the same. She graduated college and got a job. She paid off her college loans and later purchased a home. When her children graduated high school, they went to college too.

In the meantime, the taxes she created by working more than repaid what she used in welfare. Because she contributed to Social Security and started an IRA, she will be able to comfortably retire and not be a burden to taxpayers.

Now imagine her fate had there been nothing for her to fall back on. Where would her kids be today?

The problem with our social programs is few use them as my cousin did, and then everybody gets stereotyped and we demand an end to it all.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

The problem is that somebody else had to work and the government took their money by force and gave it to your cousin. Isn't that taking Liberty away from the person that earned the money?

Don't you think that person should have had a choice in whether or not the money he earned went to your cousin? In a welfare state you don't have choice, do you?

Maybe that person would have voluntarily helped out your cousin without the government forcing him to do so. Maybe without a welfare state you and other family members would have helped her more. Maybe she would have found another way.

There was really no welfare state until the filthy Democrats created one back in the 1960s in order to get the Black vote. The country did well for almost 200 years year without much public welfare.

Davy Crockett was once a member of the House of Representatives. At that time there was a big fire in the DC area that destroyed many homes. Congress wanted to vote public funds to give to the victims of the fire. Crockett wrote a very good paper saying that the money that Congress voted was not their money to give and it was morally wrong. He presents a very compelling case of why we shouldn't have a welfare state.

Well she and her children could have become homeless and starved. Maybe this and maybe that is not a solid foundation to recover from a disaster in your life. I do think the state should run such programs, but they should be there for people who did everything right but fell on hard times regardless.


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[progressive hunter]

[

The truth of the matter is some have no choice but to be on welfare. .

Ray

You and I agree on almost everything but I will have to respectfully disagree that we should have a system where some people can go on welfare.

I just don't think the government should ever be in the business of taking money from somebody that earns it and giving it somebody else. No welfare, subsidizes, entitlements, grants or bailouts.

The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Charity can take care of the few that really need some help to survive. We don't need the government to institutionalize getting free stuff.

Charity does not always work, especially if you don’t subscribe to a religion.

Years ago my cousin got married and had two children. Her husband discovered drugs which eventually led to him losing a great job followed by their divorce. There she was with two small children and no income. Her entire dream shattered.

She went on welfare so she could raise her children. When they got old enough to attend school, she did the same. She graduated college and got a job. She paid off her college loans and later purchased a home. When her children graduated high school, they went to college too.

In the meantime, the taxes she created by working more than repaid what she used in welfare. Because she contributed to Social Security and started an IRA, she will be able to comfortably retire and not be a burden to taxpayers.

Now imagine her fate had there been nothing for her to fall back on. Where would her kids be today?

The problem with our social programs is few use them as my cousin did, and then everybody gets stereotyped and we demand an end to it all.


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The problem is that somebody else had to work and the government took their money by force and gave it to your cousin. Isn't that taking Liberty away from the person that earned the money?

Don't you think that person should have had a choice in whether or not the money he earned went to your cousin? In a welfare state you don't have choice, do you?

Maybe that person would have voluntarily helped out your cousin without the government forcing him to do so. Maybe without a welfare state you and other family members would have helped her more. Maybe she would have found another way.

There was really no welfare state until the filthy Democrats created one back in the 1960s in order to get the Black vote. The country did well for almost 200 years year without much public welfare.

Davy Crockett was once a member of the House of Representatives. At that time there was a big fire in the DC area that destroyed many homes. Congress wanted to vote public funds to give to the victims of the fire. Crockett wrote a very good paper saying that the money that Congress voted was not their money to give and it was morally wrong. He presents a very compelling case of why we shouldn't have a welfare state.

Well she and her children could have become homeless and starved. Maybe this and maybe that is not a solid foundation to recover from a disaster in your life. I do think the state should run such programs, but they should be there for people who did everything right but fell on hard times regardless.


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all charity works best when both parties are closest, and not by some far away faceless bureaucrat

 

[task0778]

It's not going to being anywhere near the extra revenue that the Lib/Dems think it will. They do this every single time, linear math just does not work and never has when it comes to raising marginal tax rate for the simple reason that nobody wants to play that ridiculously high rate and so they invest their money in ways that avoid paying anything close to 70%. Or they move their business and investments overseas somewhere. Time after time, country after country it has always played out the same - you NEVER get anywhere near the revenue you thought you would get, but you know what? Most of the lib/dems don't care, cuz for them it ain't about revenue, it's about mother fucking fairness. Obama admitted it, he'd raise rates on the wealthy even if it didn't raise an extra dime of revenue. They don't give a shit about the economy, they don't care about the impact on jobs and growth.

Look at Sweden in the 80s, look at Britain when they raised their rates, look at France what, 10 back or so, they raised rates and it didn't work. We've seen it here in the US, when states raise their marginal income tax rates, the rich guys leave for someplace else. The rich guys IN EVERY CASE said fuck you, I ain't paying that and they left or they changed their investing and the economy suffered as a result. So here's the reality: would you rather get $20 if a rich guy gets $80 or would you rather get $10 if the rich guy only gets $40?

As I pointed out earlier, federal taxes are not the only taxes the rich pay. If you take 70% of their income just for federal, think of the total after they pay state, county, and city taxes. They'd be paying somewhere between 85% and 90%. Who would work for only ten or fifteen percent of the money you make?

The top federal rate kicks in on earnings made after a certain point, like $10 million dollars. Money made in the first $10 million is taxed at a lower rate. Worked just fine from 1945 to 1980 when the top federal rate was above 70% every year. In the 1950s it was above 80% every year. In 1951 the top federal rate was 92%.

And when Ronald Reagan realized those rich people were leaving the country and taking their jobs with them, he had to do something. So he lowered taxes to make it more inviting for them to stay in this country. Travel was becoming safer, technology was becoming more advanced, and rich people had less reason to stay here.

What you want to do is reverse everything he did that put this country back on track. What you’ll end up with is the same problem he had when he first became President only worse. I don’t care how bad people claim the last recession was, it was nothing compared to what took place in the early 80’s. I lived through both of them. At least in our last recession you could get a Burger King job. You couldn’t get one in the Reagan recession.


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The top federal tax rate was not lower in Europe, Japan and Australia when Reagan became President. The rich did not flee then at all. Again, the 50s, 60s, 70s saw some of the highest top federal tax rates in this countries history, but that is when many business's were built that continue to thrive today.

Maybe you were not around in the 80’s but I was. Companies and jobs have been leaving this country since the 70’s. Yes, unions had a lot to do with that but taxes were right along with them. When you can’t make money you simply move somewhere else.


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Money flows to where it makes the best ROI, that's just the way it is. You move to another state with lower tax rates or maybe to another country if you can afford it and it makes sense. Running a business in this country these days ain't easy, it's gotta be worth it to invest the time, effort, and money into a venture, and if you raise taxes then that's one way you make it less attractive. We can piss and moan about it, but that is reality.

 

[easyt65]

The racist, fake news-embracing fem freshman Dem reportedly surpassed AOC's mental malfarction by suggesting a 90% tax on Americans (the rich).

I propose we split the difference - say 80% - and impose that tax on AOC and her fellow Socialist Extremist for 1 year. At the end of that time they can report back to Congress to tell them what they think of the idea.

In the meantime, snowflakes ... while these 2 Socialist Queens are talking about FORCING Americans to pay more in taxes they have overlooked the fact that if they WANT to pay more taxes, no one is stopping them. They are free to pay 100% of their own paychecks to the Federal Govt.

If snowflakes feel so strongly about Americans giving more, have them pass a bill that calls on Americans to voluntarily give 70 - 80% in taxes. GO FOR IT! I am totally behind liberals voluntarily giving more in taxes instead of raiding MY pockets to TAKE more of MINE!