Should we NO longer trust our intelligence-gathering systems?

[Correll]

I know that there are other threads tangential on this topic and that many of us on the left have also criticized the CIA and FBI (especially) for their political subjectivity.

Nonetheless, how should we feel if indeed it is strongly proven that Russia helped Trump win the election by sabotaging the DNC???

Should we let bygones be bygones? Or should we be outraged that a foreign government interfered in our domestic affairs?

As much as we have been screwing with them, we have no moral right to outrage.


This election did not turn on the leaks.

If you want to talk about outside interference, consider the help your side got from all the international press and lefty politicians, talking smack about Trump, and consider it a wash.

 

[Disir]

Long run analysis I think the CIA might do well.

They seem to have a problem with current events.

Such as the drone kill list where they killed a 16 year old very innocent American, and got away with it.

So now I hear they are blaming Russia for the election results or at least saying that the Russians interfered. The left apparently forgot their torture critique of the CIA and are now trusting news reports of what the CIA "thinks" happened. Did the CIA report that the Russian interference was any more than an attempt to hack? Did they report that whatever it is that they say the Russians did actually helped Trump?

What this whole CIA BS is all about is the left wing can not accept rejection. They were so sure before the election that they were going to stomp all over the Republicans and as always they were so sure but so wrong. They are clinging to anything to explain why their ideology was rejected.

The fact that Trump and the Trumpbots don't care about it at all is very troubling. Your messiah is going to get impeached over stuff like this.

You have evidence?

 

[Correll]

The CIA says Russia interfered in the election, and Trump lashes out at the CIA, and not Russia. Pffft. Trump is Putin's butt boy. What a joke.

So, you a big fan of the CIA?

 

[Correll]

You Trumpsters only discredit intelligence agencies when it puts your King in a bad light.

Trump isn't infallible. He's not a God. So if something negative comes out about him, don't discredit it before even seeing the results.

If he delivers on Trade and Immigration, I don't care.

 

[nat4900]

We should not, and do not, defend foreign involvement in US elections, including illegal aliens voting. Nor should we defend the likes of Clinton News Network's Donna Brazile, who funneled debate questions to Clinton, on the grounds the emails were stolen.

Its always "good" (if still moronic) to switch blame......Its what folks at FOX would want you to do.

 

[Correll]

We should not, and do not, defend foreign involvement in US elections, including illegal aliens voting. Nor should we defend the likes of Clinton News Network's Donna Brazile, who funneled debate questions to Clinton, on the grounds the emails were stolen.

Its always "good" (if still moronic) to switch blame......Its what folks at FOX would want you to do.

It is what you are doing.

THe question you should be asking, which I saw a BBC guy ask a dem on election night, is


why have you lost the working class white vote?

 

[nat4900]

If he delivers on Trade and Immigration, I don't care.

So, if Trump does NOT impose a 35% tariff on som foreign goods AND does not build a beuatiful wall with Mexico, you'll be pissed?....LOL

 

[nat4900]

why have you lost the working class white vote?

Lack of education and a penchant for demagoguery?

 

[Rustic]

why have you lost the working class white vote?

Lack of education and a penchant for demagoguery?

 

[Correll]

If he delivers on Trade and Immigration, I don't care.

So, if Trump does NOT impose a 35% tariff on som foreign goods AND does not build a beuatiful wall with Mexico, you'll be pissed?....LOL

How is not important, results are.


If he can come to a deal with China that leads quickly to a more reasonable balance of trade and an increase in jobs for the US, I'm happy.


If he can come up with an alternative way of making sure the illegals deported and fresh illegals stop flowing over the border, I'm happy.


That's why I said what I said. I want results delivered.


Do I need to explain that more?

 

[Meathead]

Its always "good" (if still moronic) to switch blame......Its what folks at FOX would want you to do.

Well make up your fucking mind. Wikileaks was about #35 on the blame list for the Beast's defeat, and now it's jettisoned to number one after Fake News was in vogue for about a week.

 

[xyz]

Let's say the Russians did try to hack the elections, were they successful? Is there any proof that they hacked paper ballots? That they were able to hack into stand alone voting machines? What exactly is it they are alleged to have done?

1. They hacked into the voter databases of several states. What can happen is, they can claim an absentee ballot, and that the person lives in another country or state, thus the mailed-in vote counts, and the actual person doesn't get to vote (if they show up).
2. They can hack into the software for the electronic vote machines, so if the software is updated, they'll give wrong results.
3. They can hack into the server that centralizes the vote results.

Types of fraud that can be committed by people on the ground (not hacking):
1. Not allowing people to vote.
2. Wrongly counting votes, especially if no opposing observers are present.
3. Introducing fraudulent votes.

 

[Disir]

Let's say the Russians did try to hack the elections, were they successful? Is there any proof that they hacked paper ballots? That they were able to hack into stand alone voting machines? What exactly is it they are alleged to have done?

1. They hacked into the voter databases of several states. What can happen is, they can claim an absentee ballot, and that the person lives in another country or state, thus the mailed-in vote counts, and the actual person doesn't get to vote (if they show up).
2. They can hack into the software for the electronic vote machines, so if the software is updated, they'll give wrong results.
3. They can hack into the server that centralizes the vote results.

Types of fraud that can be committed by people on the ground (not hacking):
1. Not allowing people to vote.
2. Wrongly counting votes, especially if no opposing observers are present.
3. Introducing fraudulent votes.

You have no evidence.

 

[xyz]

Let's say the Russians did try to hack the elections, were they successful? Is there any proof that they hacked paper ballots? That they were able to hack into stand alone voting machines? What exactly is it they are alleged to have done?

1. They hacked into the voter databases of several states. What can happen is, they can claim an absentee ballot, and that the person lives in another country or state, thus the mailed-in vote counts, and the actual person doesn't get to vote (if they show up).
2. They can hack into the software for the electronic vote machines, so if the software is updated, they'll give wrong results.
3. They can hack into the server that centralizes the vote results.

Types of fraud that can be committed by people on the ground (not hacking):
1. Not allowing people to vote.
2. Wrongly counting votes, especially if no opposing observers are present.
3. Introducing fraudulent votes.

You have no evidence.

Evidence of what is possible?

 

[Nia88]

You Trumpsters only discredit intelligence agencies when it puts your King in a bad light.

Trump isn't infallible. He's not a God. So if something negative comes out about him, don't discredit it before even seeing the results.

If he delivers on Trade and Immigration, I don't care.

So even if the Russians helped him rig the elections you're cool with that ?

 

[Disir]

Let's say the Russians did try to hack the elections, were they successful? Is there any proof that they hacked paper ballots? That they were able to hack into stand alone voting machines? What exactly is it they are alleged to have done?

1. They hacked into the voter databases of several states. What can happen is, they can claim an absentee ballot, and that the person lives in another country or state, thus the mailed-in vote counts, and the actual person doesn't get to vote (if they show up).
2. They can hack into the software for the electronic vote machines, so if the software is updated, they'll give wrong results.
3. They can hack into the server that centralizes the vote results.

Types of fraud that can be committed by people on the ground (not hacking):
1. Not allowing people to vote.
2. Wrongly counting votes, especially if no opposing observers are present.
3. Introducing fraudulent votes.

You have no evidence.

Evidence of what is possible?

Evidence it was the "Russians".

 

[Freewill]

Let's say the Russians did try to hack the elections, were they successful? Is there any proof that they hacked paper ballots? That they were able to hack into stand alone voting machines? What exactly is it they are alleged to have done?

1. They hacked into the voter databases of several states. What can happen is, they can claim an absentee ballot, and that the person lives in another country or state, thus the mailed-in vote counts, and the actual person doesn't get to vote (if they show up).
2. They can hack into the software for the electronic vote machines, so if the software is updated, they'll give wrong results.
3. They can hack into the server that centralizes the vote results.

Types of fraud that can be committed by people on the ground (not hacking):
1. Not allowing people to vote.
2. Wrongly counting votes, especially if no opposing observers are present.
3. Introducing fraudulent votes.

1. present the evidence please. There has to be thousands who are reporting that they could not vote.

2. They CAN, but where is the evidence that they DID?

3. Same as above.

Not allowing a person to vote should be fairly easy to prove. Where are the thousands that would make a difference in the outcome? Links, evidence not opinion.

All votes I will bet, without further evidence, are counted by machines, which could be hacked, but anything could be, where is the evidence?

Introducing fraudulent voters, I posted another thread that showed that one woman voted several times after she had died. In PA it was witnessed that votes were being switched from Trump to Hillary. It was blamed on a "calibration" error. That is the ONE case where it was actually shown that "fraud" existed.

 

[Disir]

You Trumpsters only discredit intelligence agencies when it puts your King in a bad light.

Trump isn't infallible. He's not a God. So if something negative comes out about him, don't discredit it before even seeing the results.

If he delivers on Trade and Immigration, I don't care.

So even if the Russians helped him rig the elections you're cool with that ?

You have no evidence.

 

[whitehall]

With Wikileaks, assorted traitors in the CIA and FBI, glaring idiocy such as the controversy over the alleged "outing" of socialite Valery Plame and even Bill Clinton's former NSA becoming a thief and stealing documents from the National Archives it would seem that there are no secrets anymore. When you factor in the CIA's apparent admission of being hacked and the FBI's negligence in the Boston Marathon bombing, the Florida nightclub rampage and the San Bernadino terrorist act you come to the conclusion that both the CIA and the FBI are nothing but political tools of the administration and there is little intelligence in the intelligence community.

 

[rdean]

I know that there are other threads tangential on this topic and that many of us on the left have also criticized the CIA and FBI (especially) for their political subjectivity.

Nonetheless, how should we feel if indeed it is strongly proven that Russia helped Trump win the election by sabotaging the DNC???

Should we let bygones be bygones? Or should we be outraged that a foreign government interfered in our domestic affairs?

If you are a right winger, you should cheer Putin and call that murderous thug our friend. Putin does to journalists what right wing America wants to do the gays and blacks.