Simplifying the Tax System Is Easy in the Real World

[Weatherman2020]

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates paid $1M in tax last year. He grossed $100M but paid that tax on $10M after deductions.

So a flat tax of 1% on his gross would have him paying the same exact taxes he did last year.

See? You rubes ASSUME there would be no deductions in a flat tax.

You have deliberately been led to believe a flat tax has this magical property.

Now who do you suppose wants you to believe this giant hoax?

The people who would benefit the most from your innumeracy and gullibility.

The OP said no deductions.
Don't insert your own system into mine. Worst strawman possible.

If your problem is deductions then why the hell are you pushing flat tax?

If your problem is deductions then why the hell are you pushing flat tax?

That absolutely makes no sense whatsoever.

Yes it does, but you need a brain for that.

FLAT TAX of your proposal just shifts tax burden from rich to others and only the REMOVE DEDUCTIONS part of it does what you say you want to accomplish.

That REMOVE DEDUCTION part can be implemented just fine in current progressive system, which makes your push for FLAT TAX pointless.

You're the only one claiming the percentage set would reduce taxes on top earners.

STRAWMAN

 

[g5000]

See? You rubes ASSUME there would be no deductions in a flat tax.

You have deliberately been led to believe a flat tax has this magical property.

Now who do you suppose wants you to believe this giant hoax?

The people who would benefit the most from your innumeracy and gullibility.

The OP said no deductions.
Don't insert your own system into mine. Worst strawman possible.

If your problem is deductions then why the hell are you pushing flat tax?

If your problem is deductions then why the hell are you pushing flat tax?

That absolutely makes no sense whatsoever.

Yes it does, but you need a brain for that.

FLAT TAX of your proposal just shifts tax burden from rich to others and only the REMOVE DEDUCTIONS part of it does what you say you want to accomplish.

That REMOVE DEDUCTION part can be implemented just fine in current progressive system, which makes your push for FLAT TAX pointless.

You're the only one claiming the percentage set would reduce taxes on top earners.

STRAWMAN

You are over your head. You can't grasp even the simplest math.

This is why those who stand to benefit the most are so easily able to influence your bleef system.

 

[rightwinger]

There is nothing magical about the flat tax which prevents politicians from giving the rich all the same tax write-off they currently enjoy.

The rubes have been led to believe a flat tax has this magical property.

We have seen it all before

The exemptions available to the wealthy will slowly work their way back into the tax code while the exemptions given up by working Americans will be gone for good

And yet here you are arguing for the existing complex tax system.

I'm willing to make our tax system less complex

It starts with maintaining multiple tax brackets based on ability to pay. That is not complex

It is when you get into all those exemptions and subsidies that things get complex. Most of those apply to only the wealthy. Lets make it easier for the wealthy to do their taxes and cut out some of those exemptions

 

[g5000]

Before this gets too much more heated up, it should be pointed out that everyone in this topic is in agreement that there should be little or no deductions.

This makes me very happy.

I've been advocating the elimination of tax expenditures for years on this forum, and getting nothing but shit for it from the pseudocons.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Except...

Table 1203. Income before taxes: Annual expenditure means, shares, standard errors, and coefficients of variation, Consumer Expenditure
Survey, 2015

In 2015, the percent of pre-tax income spent only on food and housing was as follows:
< $15,000: 162.3%
$15,000 - $29,999: 72.8%
$30,000 - $39,999: 55.4%
$40,000 - $49,999: 45.6%
$50,000 - $69,999: 40.2%
$70,000 - $99,999: 35.2%
$100,000 - $149,999: 30.4%
$150,000 - $199,999: 27.4%
$200,000+ : 20.1%

You don't have to be an Economist to figure out that a flat tax would have a disproportionately negative effect on lower income groups. Especially keeping in mind that for those who make less than $30,000 their post-tax income is actually higher than pre-tax.

Spending an extra 10% on taxes will not affect any of the necessities of life for higher incomes, but absolutely will for lower incomes.

47% or so of Americans do not pay Federal taxes. They have no vested interest in how America does?

According to the Census Population Clock, in July the total population in the U.S. was 325,365,189
According the Bureau of Labor Statistics Table A1, the total number of people age 16+ (excluding military and prison labor) who were working was 153,513,000
So that's over 50% of the population not working. That doesn't mean no income, but it does raise the question of where you think all those not currently paying Federal taxes would get the money from?

Democrats in Calif have made significant increases in energy, gas, and sales taxes, increased fees for mass transportation.

All which hits the poor the hardest.

The narrative that Democrats want to help the poor and are concerned about increasing their taxes is a fallacy.

 

[AntonToo]

See? You rubes ASSUME there would be no deductions in a flat tax.

You have deliberately been led to believe a flat tax has this magical property.

Now who do you suppose wants you to believe this giant hoax?

The people who would benefit the most from your innumeracy and gullibility.

The OP said no deductions.
Don't insert your own system into mine. Worst strawman possible.

If your problem is deductions then why the hell are you pushing flat tax?

If your problem is deductions then why the hell are you pushing flat tax?

That absolutely makes no sense whatsoever.

Yes it does, but you need a brain for that.

FLAT TAX of your proposal just shifts tax burden from rich to others and only the REMOVE DEDUCTIONS part of it does what you say you want to accomplish.

That REMOVE DEDUCTION part can be implemented just fine in current progressive system, which makes your push for FLAT TAX pointless.

You're the only one claiming the percentage set would reduce taxes on top earners.

STRAWMAN

What is the point of your FLAT TAX?

We already settled that deductions we can change just fine in current tax system, so go ahead and explain wtf is the point of your FLAT TAX. Why are you for it??

 

[Weatherman2020]

Before this gets too much more heated up, it should be pointed out that everyone in this topic is in agreement that there should be little or no deductions.

This makes me very happy.

I've been advocating the elimination of tax expenditures for years on this forum, and getting nothing but shit for it from the pseudocons.

You only get shit because you think taxing the rich is the solution.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The OP said no deductions.
Don't insert your own system into mine. Worst strawman possible.

If your problem is deductions then why the hell are you pushing flat tax?

If your problem is deductions then why the hell are you pushing flat tax?

That absolutely makes no sense whatsoever.

Yes it does, but you need a brain for that.

FLAT TAX of your proposal just shifts tax burden from rich to others and only the REMOVE DEDUCTIONS part of it does what you say you want to accomplish.

That REMOVE DEDUCTION part can be implemented just fine in current progressive system, which makes your push for FLAT TAX pointless.

You're the only one claiming the percentage set would reduce taxes on top earners.

STRAWMAN

What is the point of your FLAT TAX?

We already settled that deductions we can change just fine in current tax system, so go ahead and explain wtf is the point of your FLAT TAX. Why are you for it??

Read the OP.

 

[rightwinger]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Except...

Table 1203. Income before taxes: Annual expenditure means, shares, standard errors, and coefficients of variation, Consumer Expenditure
Survey, 2015

In 2015, the percent of pre-tax income spent only on food and housing was as follows:
< $15,000: 162.3%
$15,000 - $29,999: 72.8%
$30,000 - $39,999: 55.4%
$40,000 - $49,999: 45.6%
$50,000 - $69,999: 40.2%
$70,000 - $99,999: 35.2%
$100,000 - $149,999: 30.4%
$150,000 - $199,999: 27.4%
$200,000+ : 20.1%

You don't have to be an Economist to figure out that a flat tax would have a disproportionately negative effect on lower income groups. Especially keeping in mind that for those who make less than $30,000 their post-tax income is actually higher than pre-tax.

Spending an extra 10% on taxes will not affect any of the necessities of life for higher incomes, but absolutely will for lower incomes.

47% or so of Americans do not pay Federal taxes. They have no vested interest in how America does?

President Trump is part of that 47%

 

[Weatherman2020]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Except...

Table 1203. Income before taxes: Annual expenditure means, shares, standard errors, and coefficients of variation, Consumer Expenditure
Survey, 2015

In 2015, the percent of pre-tax income spent only on food and housing was as follows:
< $15,000: 162.3%
$15,000 - $29,999: 72.8%
$30,000 - $39,999: 55.4%
$40,000 - $49,999: 45.6%
$50,000 - $69,999: 40.2%
$70,000 - $99,999: 35.2%
$100,000 - $149,999: 30.4%
$150,000 - $199,999: 27.4%
$200,000+ : 20.1%

You don't have to be an Economist to figure out that a flat tax would have a disproportionately negative effect on lower income groups. Especially keeping in mind that for those who make less than $30,000 their post-tax income is actually higher than pre-tax.

Spending an extra 10% on taxes will not affect any of the necessities of life for higher incomes, but absolutely will for lower incomes.

47% or so of Americans do not pay Federal taxes. They have no vested interest in how America does?

President Trump is part of that 47%

Then more reason for you to support a flat tax with no deductions on gross income.

 

[AntonToo]

If your problem is deductions then why the hell are you pushing flat tax?

If your problem is deductions then why the hell are you pushing flat tax?

That absolutely makes no sense whatsoever.

Yes it does, but you need a brain for that.

FLAT TAX of your proposal just shifts tax burden from rich to others and only the REMOVE DEDUCTIONS part of it does what you say you want to accomplish.

That REMOVE DEDUCTION part can be implemented just fine in current progressive system, which makes your push for FLAT TAX pointless.

You're the only one claiming the percentage set would reduce taxes on top earners.

STRAWMAN

What is the point of your FLAT TAX?

We already settled that deductions we can change just fine in current tax system, so go ahead and explain wtf is the point of your FLAT TAX. Why are you for it??

Read the OP.

I did,

In it you say low income people will pay same % as millionaires, which is another way of saying low income will pay more and millionaires will pay less.

 

[rightwinger]

Simplifying the Tax System Is Easy in the Real World
Very easy....just slap everyone with a tax of 20%

Now, explaining to working Americans why they have to pay so much more under the new plan and the wealthy get to pay so much less........Now THAT'S HARD

 

[postman]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

So you suggest that people living below the poverty line, not making enough money to live on, should pay a portion of that to Uncle Sam, leaving them even further below the poverty line?

Or in the case of somebody on the edge, being taxed into poverty.

That would be one way to increase the number of people on food stamps.

 

[rightwinger]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Except...

Table 1203. Income before taxes: Annual expenditure means, shares, standard errors, and coefficients of variation, Consumer Expenditure
Survey, 2015

In 2015, the percent of pre-tax income spent only on food and housing was as follows:
< $15,000: 162.3%
$15,000 - $29,999: 72.8%
$30,000 - $39,999: 55.4%
$40,000 - $49,999: 45.6%
$50,000 - $69,999: 40.2%
$70,000 - $99,999: 35.2%
$100,000 - $149,999: 30.4%
$150,000 - $199,999: 27.4%
$200,000+ : 20.1%

You don't have to be an Economist to figure out that a flat tax would have a disproportionately negative effect on lower income groups. Especially keeping in mind that for those who make less than $30,000 their post-tax income is actually higher than pre-tax.

Spending an extra 10% on taxes will not affect any of the necessities of life for higher incomes, but absolutely will for lower incomes.

47% or so of Americans do not pay Federal taxes. They have no vested interest in how America does?

President Trump is part of that 47%

Then more reason for you to support a flat tax with no deductions on gross income.

I'd rather see him lose his exemption for making a bad investment

Now THAT's easy

 

[g5000]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Except...

Table 1203. Income before taxes: Annual expenditure means, shares, standard errors, and coefficients of variation, Consumer Expenditure
Survey, 2015

In 2015, the percent of pre-tax income spent only on food and housing was as follows:
< $15,000: 162.3%
$15,000 - $29,999: 72.8%
$30,000 - $39,999: 55.4%
$40,000 - $49,999: 45.6%
$50,000 - $69,999: 40.2%
$70,000 - $99,999: 35.2%
$100,000 - $149,999: 30.4%
$150,000 - $199,999: 27.4%
$200,000+ : 20.1%

You don't have to be an Economist to figure out that a flat tax would have a disproportionately negative effect on lower income groups. Especially keeping in mind that for those who make less than $30,000 their post-tax income is actually higher than pre-tax.

Spending an extra 10% on taxes will not affect any of the necessities of life for higher incomes, but absolutely will for lower incomes.

47% or so of Americans do not pay Federal taxes. They have no vested interest in how America does?

According to the Census Population Clock, in July the total population in the U.S. was 325,365,189
According the Bureau of Labor Statistics Table A1, the total number of people age 16+ (excluding military and prison labor) who were working was 153,513,000
So that's over 50% of the population not working. That doesn't mean no income, but it does raise the question of where you think all those not currently paying Federal taxes would get the money from?

Democrats in Calif have made significant increases in energy, gas, and sales taxes, increased fees for mass transportation.

All which hits the poor the hardest.

The narrative that Democrats want to help the poor and are concerned about increasing their taxes is a fallacy.

Yes, sales taxes are the most regressive of all taxes.

 

[Weatherman2020]

That absolutely makes no sense whatsoever.

Yes it does, but you need a brain for that.

FLAT TAX of your proposal just shifts tax burden from rich to others and only the REMOVE DEDUCTIONS part of it does what you say you want to accomplish.

That REMOVE DEDUCTION part can be implemented just fine in current progressive system, which makes your push for FLAT TAX pointless.

You're the only one claiming the percentage set would reduce taxes on top earners.

STRAWMAN

What is the point of your FLAT TAX?

We already settled that deductions we can change just fine in current tax system, so go ahead and explain wtf is the point of your FLAT TAX. Why are you for it??

Read the OP.

I did,

In it you say low income people will pay same % as millionaires, which is another way of saying low income will pay more and millionaires will pay less.

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

And your strawman that the percent will be set so Obama pays less is just that - a strawman.

 

[Synthaholic]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Never going to happen.

Wingnuts go crazy over the possible loss of under 50,000 coal miner jobs. What would be the reaction of losing 500,000 to 3,000,000 CPA/accounting jobs?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Except...

Table 1203. Income before taxes: Annual expenditure means, shares, standard errors, and coefficients of variation, Consumer Expenditure
Survey, 2015

In 2015, the percent of pre-tax income spent only on food and housing was as follows:
< $15,000: 162.3%
$15,000 - $29,999: 72.8%
$30,000 - $39,999: 55.4%
$40,000 - $49,999: 45.6%
$50,000 - $69,999: 40.2%
$70,000 - $99,999: 35.2%
$100,000 - $149,999: 30.4%
$150,000 - $199,999: 27.4%
$200,000+ : 20.1%

You don't have to be an Economist to figure out that a flat tax would have a disproportionately negative effect on lower income groups. Especially keeping in mind that for those who make less than $30,000 their post-tax income is actually higher than pre-tax.

Spending an extra 10% on taxes will not affect any of the necessities of life for higher incomes, but absolutely will for lower incomes.

47% or so of Americans do not pay Federal taxes. They have no vested interest in how America does?

President Trump is part of that 47%

Then more reason for you to support a flat tax with no deductions on gross income.

I'd rather see him lose his exemption for making a bad investment

Now THAT's easy

So you don't like people investing in a possible cure for cancer?

 

[postman]

I'm wondering how many people just above the poverty level, would be taxed into poverty, and I can just read the headline.

One million people taxed into poverty by Trump income tax.

That should be good for a few votes

 

[Weatherman2020]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Never going to happen.

Wingnuts go crazy over the possible loss of under 50,000 coal miner jobs. What would be the reaction of losing 500,000 to 3,000,000 CPA/accounting jobs?

The only ones opposing it here are lefties.