Simplifying the Tax System Is Easy in the Real World

[LoneLaugher]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Dumb idea. That is why it isn't done anywhere.

 

[g5000]

Except...

Table 1203. Income before taxes: Annual expenditure means, shares, standard errors, and coefficients of variation, Consumer Expenditure
Survey, 2015

In 2015, the percent of pre-tax income spent only on food and housing was as follows:
< $15,000: 162.3%
$15,000 - $29,999: 72.8%
$30,000 - $39,999: 55.4%
$40,000 - $49,999: 45.6%
$50,000 - $69,999: 40.2%
$70,000 - $99,999: 35.2%
$100,000 - $149,999: 30.4%
$150,000 - $199,999: 27.4%
$200,000+ : 20.1%

You don't have to be an Economist to figure out that a flat tax would have a disproportionately negative effect on lower income groups. Especially keeping in mind that for those who make less than $30,000 their post-tax income is actually higher than pre-tax.

Spending an extra 10% on taxes will not affect any of the necessities of life for higher incomes, but absolutely will for lower incomes.

47% or so of Americans do not pay Federal taxes. They have no vested interest in how America does?

President Trump is part of that 47%

Then more reason for you to support a flat tax with no deductions on gross income.

I'd rather see him lose his exemption for making a bad investment

Now THAT's easy

So you don't like people investing in a possible cure for cancer?

So you ARE advocating for deductions!

 

[Weatherman2020]

47% or so of Americans do not pay Federal taxes. They have no vested interest in how America does?

President Trump is part of that 47%

Then more reason for you to support a flat tax with no deductions on gross income.

I'd rather see him lose his exemption for making a bad investment

Now THAT's easy

So you don't like people investing in a possible cure for cancer?

Trump invested in an overpriced casino and airline with TRUMP on it

Hardly a cure for cancer

So you support my no deductions

 

[AntonToo]

I did,

In it you say low income people will pay same % as millionaires, which is another way of saying low income will pay more and millionaires will pay less.

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

And your strawman that the percent will be set so Obama pays less is just that - a strawman.

Just curious, what % do you THINK your flat tax will be?

Obama paid almost 20%, Bidden paid 23% - those are with charity deductions (are you seriously going to cut those out too?)

Obamas pay $93,362 in federal taxes; tax rate of 20%

What flat tax rate proposal do you think will charge them MORE?

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates

LETS NOT, you said Obama. We KNOW what Obama paid. Lets say Obama.

2nd grade math. $93k / Gross = %

I have a degree in mathematics dumbass. What is it that you think I don't understand about math that you do

I will repeat the question - we KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Dumb idea. That is why it isn't done anywhere.

Because every government wishes to maintain its boot on the neck of its citizens.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Dumb idea. That is why it isn't done anywhere.

Because every government wishes to maintain its boot on the neck of its citizens.

Nope. It's dumb. Wealthy people need to pay more. They ( we )use more. They ( we ) get more. They (we) pay more.

 

[KGB]

So you think Bill Gates pays his fair share today?

No, he has huge deductions and tax shelters.

Why do you not want the rich to pay their fair share?

Of course he has huge deductions - HE IS GIVING AWAY MOST OF HIS MONEY, why wouldn't that be a deduction?

Either way, we don't need to turn the whole tax system upside down and transfering tax burden from the rich onto those least able to afford it.

All we need to do is institute minimum tax on income of ANY kind, above certain point (lets say 1 million), see Buffet Rule.

A waitress paying $2,000 a year in taxes is going to be bearing the same burden as Bill Gates who will pay $20M a year in taxes.

Her taxes will go up and Bill Gates taxes will go down

Math hard for you? What percentage in Gates gross income makes his taxes go down?

Percentage is meaningless

Bottom line is what would the waitress pay in taxes before and after your tax proposal and what would Bill Gates pay before and after. Waitress will have less money in her pocket at the end of the year and Bill Gates will have more

The answer is obvious, that is why you won't say it

Any Flat Tax proposal will result in the wealthy paying less and the working poor paying more

Not with the AMT in place it won't....flat tax plus that & we are good to go...

 

[Weatherman2020]

And your strawman that the percent will be set so Obama pays less is just that - a strawman.

Just curious, what % do you THINK your flat tax will be?

Obama paid almost 20%, Bidden paid 23% - those are with charity deductions (are you seriously going to cut those out too?)

Obamas pay $93,362 in federal taxes; tax rate of 20%

What flat tax rate proposal do you think will charge them MORE?

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates

LETS NOT, you said Obama. We KNOW what Obama paid. Lets say Obama.

2nd grade math. $93k / Gross = %

I have a degree in mathematics dumbass. What is it that you think I don't understand about math that you do

I will repeat the question - we KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

You don't know basic math. You left out half the values of the equation.

 

[Timmy]

How does one measure "income ".

Take Donald Trump . Think of how complicated it is to measure his income .

But let's take a simpler example . Some guy who has his own plumbing business . Works for himself , no employees . You've eliminated all deductions right? No depreciation or anything .

 

[g5000]

The people who fall for this flat tax hoax which would benefit the wealthy at the expense of the middle class are the same people who bleeved Ted Cruz who said he would have a flat income tax with no IRS.

How do you have an income tax without an IRS?

If the man had just been honest, I would have been more supportive of him.

And then came Trump, who makes Cruz look in comparison as perfect as Jesus Christ.

 

[AntonToo]

Just curious, what % do you THINK your flat tax will be?

Obama paid almost 20%, Bidden paid 23% - those are with charity deductions (are you seriously going to cut those out too?)

Obamas pay $93,362 in federal taxes; tax rate of 20%

What flat tax rate proposal do you think will charge them MORE?

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates

LETS NOT, you said Obama. We KNOW what Obama paid. Lets say Obama.

2nd grade math. $93k / Gross = %

I have a degree in mathematics dumbass. What is it that you think I don't understand about math that you do

I will repeat the question - we KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

You don't know basic math. You left out half the values of the equation.

what equation? i'm asking you a simple question:

We KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

You can't answer it because you know that Obama will pay less tax under your flat tax and you are not man enough to admit it.

 

[Weatherman2020]

How does one measure "income ".

Take Donald Trump . Think of how complicated it is to measure his income .

But let's take a simpler example . Some guy who has his own plumbing business . Works for himself , no employees . You've eliminated all deductions right? No depreciation or anything .

Yep

 

[KGB]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Dumb idea. That is why it isn't done anywhere.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has a flat income tax rate of 3.07%, so you are incorrect.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates

LETS NOT, you said Obama. We KNOW what Obama paid. Lets say Obama.

2nd grade math. $93k / Gross = %

I have a degree in mathematics dumbass. What is it that you think I don't understand about math that you do

I will repeat the question - we KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

You don't know basic math. You left out half the values of the equation.

what equation? i'm asking you a simple question:

We KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

He paid 20% after deductions, Dufus.

 

[AntonToo]

LETS NOT, you said Obama. We KNOW what Obama paid. Lets say Obama.

2nd grade math. $93k / Gross = %

I have a degree in mathematics dumbass. What is it that you think I don't understand about math that you do

I will repeat the question - we KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

You don't know basic math. You left out half the values of the equation.

what equation? i'm asking you a simple question:

We KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

He paid 20% after deductions, Dufus.

RETARD I KNOW HOW MUCH HE PAID.

I'm asking how much he WOULD HAVE PAID UNDER YOUR FLAT TAX.

WTF is wrong with you?

 

[postman]

You're the one yapping about equality. Should you pay for gasoline based on how much money you make?

They should make all taxes flat taxes, with a dollar offset, like Forbes. Such as property tax based on the value of the property above $50,000.

Income tax based in income above $25,000

Pretty soon, that makes the flat tax, look close to the progressive income tax, except covering everything.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The people who fall for this flat tax hoax which would benefit the wealthy at the expense of the middle class are the same people who bleeved Ted Cruz who said he would have a flat income tax with no IRS.

If the man had just been honest, I would have been more supportive of him.

And then came Trump, who makes Cruz look in comparison as perfect as Jesus Christ.

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates paid $1M in tax last year. He grossed $100M but paid that tax on $10M after deductions.

So a flat tax of 1% on his gross would have him paying the same exact taxes he did last year.

If he pays 2% his taxes double and so forth.

Think you can pay 5% of your gross and survive?

You create a strawman saying the top earners will pay less.

 

[pinqy]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Except...

Table 1203. Income before taxes: Annual expenditure means, shares, standard errors, and coefficients of variation, Consumer Expenditure
Survey, 2015

In 2015, the percent of pre-tax income spent only on food and housing was as follows:
< $15,000: 162.3%
$15,000 - $29,999: 72.8%
$30,000 - $39,999: 55.4%
$40,000 - $49,999: 45.6%
$50,000 - $69,999: 40.2%
$70,000 - $99,999: 35.2%
$100,000 - $149,999: 30.4%
$150,000 - $199,999: 27.4%
$200,000+ : 20.1%

You don't have to be an Economist to figure out that a flat tax would have a disproportionately negative effect on lower income groups. Especially keeping in mind that for those who make less than $30,000 their post-tax income is actually higher than pre-tax.

Spending an extra 10% on taxes will not affect any of the necessities of life for higher incomes, but absolutely will for lower incomes.

47% or so of Americans do not pay Federal taxes. They have no vested interest in how America does?

According to the Census Population Clock, in July the total population in the U.S. was 325,365,189
According the Bureau of Labor Statistics Table A1, the total number of people age 16+ (excluding military and prison labor) who were working was 153,513,000
So that's over 50% of the population not working. That doesn't mean no income, but it does raise the question of where you think all those not currently paying Federal taxes would get the money from?

Democrats in Calif have made significant increases in energy, gas, and sales taxes, increased fees for mass transportation.

All which hits the poor the hardest.

The narrative that Democrats want to help the poor and are concerned about increasing their taxes is a fallacy.

And what does that have to do with anything I wrote? I'm neither a Democrat, nor in California, and I would agree that the energy and sales taxes, and increased transportation fees are regressive.

 

[Weatherman2020]

2nd grade math. $93k / Gross = %

I have a degree in mathematics dumbass. What is it that you think I don't understand about math that you do

I will repeat the question - we KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

You don't know basic math. You left out half the values of the equation.

what equation? i'm asking you a simple question:

We KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

He paid 20% after deductions, Dufus.

RETARD I KNOW HOW MUCH HE PAID.

I'm asking how much he WOULD HAVE PAID UNDER YOUR FLAT TAX.

WTF is wrong with you?

$94,585.

 

[g5000]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Dumb idea. That is why it isn't done anywhere.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has a flat income tax rate of 3.07%, so you are incorrect.

Pennsylvania has tax deductions. So he's right.