Simplifying the Tax System Is Easy in the Real World

[Weatherman2020]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Except...

Table 1203. Income before taxes: Annual expenditure means, shares, standard errors, and coefficients of variation, Consumer Expenditure
Survey, 2015

In 2015, the percent of pre-tax income spent only on food and housing was as follows:
< $15,000: 162.3%
$15,000 - $29,999: 72.8%
$30,000 - $39,999: 55.4%
$40,000 - $49,999: 45.6%
$50,000 - $69,999: 40.2%
$70,000 - $99,999: 35.2%
$100,000 - $149,999: 30.4%
$150,000 - $199,999: 27.4%
$200,000+ : 20.1%

You don't have to be an Economist to figure out that a flat tax would have a disproportionately negative effect on lower income groups. Especially keeping in mind that for those who make less than $30,000 their post-tax income is actually higher than pre-tax.

Spending an extra 10% on taxes will not affect any of the necessities of life for higher incomes, but absolutely will for lower incomes.

47% or so of Americans do not pay Federal taxes. They have no vested interest in how America does?

According to the Census Population Clock, in July the total population in the U.S. was 325,365,189
According the Bureau of Labor Statistics Table A1, the total number of people age 16+ (excluding military and prison labor) who were working was 153,513,000
So that's over 50% of the population not working. That doesn't mean no income, but it does raise the question of where you think all those not currently paying Federal taxes would get the money from?

Democrats in Calif have made significant increases in energy, gas, and sales taxes, increased fees for mass transportation.

All which hits the poor the hardest.

The narrative that Democrats want to help the poor and are concerned about increasing their taxes is a fallacy.

And what does that have to do with anything I wrote? I'm neither a Democrat, nor in California, and I would agree that the energy and sales taxes, and increased transportation fees are regressive.

Then stop whining that the bottom earners will have to pay more. They get jabbed with higher taxes by libs all the time.

 

[AntonToo]

I have a degree in mathematics dumbass. What is it that you think I don't understand about math that you do

I will repeat the question - we KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

You don't know basic math. You left out half the values of the equation.

what equation? i'm asking you a simple question:

We KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

He paid 20% after deductions, Dufus.

RETARD I KNOW HOW MUCH HE PAID.

I'm asking how much he WOULD HAVE PAID UNDER YOUR FLAT TAX.

WTF is wrong with you?

$94,585.

You are saying your proposed flat tax is 20%?

 

[g5000]

The Pennsylvania personal income tax does not provide for a standard deduction or personal exemption. However, individuals may reduce tax liabilities through certain deductions, credits and exclusions.

Personal Income Tax

 

[LoneLaugher]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Dumb idea. That is why it isn't done anywhere.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has a flat income tax rate of 3.07%, so you are incorrect.

Idiot.

 

[rightwinger]

I did,

In it you say low income people will pay same % as millionaires, which is another way of saying low income will pay more and millionaires will pay less.

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

And your strawman that the percent will be set so Obama pays less is just that - a strawman.

Just curious, what % do you THINK your flat tax will be?

Obama paid almost 20%, Bidden paid 23% - those are with charity deductions (are you seriously going to cut those out too?)

Obamas pay $93,362 in federal taxes; tax rate of 20%

What flat tax rate proposal do you think will charge them MORE?

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates

LETS NOT, you said Obama. We KNOW what Obama paid. Lets say Obama.

2nd grade math. $93k / Gross = %

Why can't your 2nd grade math come up with a flat tax rate that results in the wealthy not paying less and the working poor not paying more?

 

[Weatherman2020]

You don't know basic math. You left out half the values of the equation.

what equation? i'm asking you a simple question:

We KNOW Obama paid 20%, how much would he pay under your flat tax?

He paid 20% after deductions, Dufus.

RETARD I KNOW HOW MUCH HE PAID.

I'm asking how much he WOULD HAVE PAID UNDER YOUR FLAT TAX.

WTF is wrong with you?

$94,585.

You are saying your proposed flat tax is 20%?

You have no clue what net and gross are. Please go to a thread about statues and stop bothering the adults.

 

[g5000]

The people who fall for this flat tax hoax which would benefit the wealthy at the expense of the middle class are the same people who bleeved Ted Cruz who said he would have a flat income tax with no IRS.

If the man had just been honest, I would have been more supportive of him.

And then came Trump, who makes Cruz look in comparison as perfect as Jesus Christ.

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates paid $1M in tax last year. He grossed $100M but paid that tax on $10M after deductions.

So a flat tax of 1% on his gross would have him paying the same exact taxes he did last year.

If he pays 2% his taxes double and so forth.

Think you can pay 5% of your gross and survive?

You create a strawman saying the top earners will pay less.

You premised your scenario on Gates currently being able to deduct 90 percent of his income.

 

[KGB]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Dumb idea. That is why it isn't done anywhere.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has a flat income tax rate of 3.07%, so you are incorrect.

Pennsylvania has tax deductions. So he's right.

The Pennsylvania personal income tax does not provide for a standard deduction or personal exemption. However, individuals may reduce tax liabilities through certain deductions, credits and exclusions.

Deductions:

• Taxpayers may reduce taxable compensation for allowable unreimbursed expenses that are ordinary, actual, reasonable, necessary and directly related to the taxpayer’s occupation or employment.
• PA law allows three deductions against income: deductions for medical savings account contributions, health savings account contributions and IRC Section 529 tuition account program contributions.

Personal Income Tax

Given these few deductions, I would state without reservation that state is relatively deduction free in addition to having a flat tax rate. I should know, I lived there for 32 years, so the poster is incorrect in that flat tax areas do not exist.

 

[postman]

How does one measure "income ".

Take Donald Trump . Think of how complicated it is to measure his income .

But let's take a simpler example . Some guy who has his own plumbing business . Works for himself , no employees . You've eliminated all deductions right? No depreciation or anything .

Someone grosing $1,000,000 with $900.000 in expenses, would be taxed like a millionaire. He would pay $100,000 in taxes, for a $100,000 net profit. Or a 100% tax rate.

That would be an interesting flat tax case.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The people who fall for this flat tax hoax which would benefit the wealthy at the expense of the middle class are the same people who bleeved Ted Cruz who said he would have a flat income tax with no IRS.

If the man had just been honest, I would have been more supportive of him.

And then came Trump, who makes Cruz look in comparison as perfect as Jesus Christ.

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates paid $1M in tax last year. He grossed $100M but paid that tax on $10M after deductions.

So a flat tax of 1% on his gross would have him paying the same exact taxes he did last year.

If he pays 2% his taxes double and so forth.

Think you can pay 5% of your gross and survive?

You create a strawman saying the top earners will pay less.

You invented a scenario where Gates deducted 90 percent of his income.

False premise.

Romney and Trump pay no taxes, remember?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Dumb idea. That is why it isn't done anywhere.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has a flat income tax rate of 3.07%, so you are incorrect.

Pennsylvania has tax deductions. So he's right.

The Pennsylvania personal income tax does not provide for a standard deduction or personal exemption. However, individuals may reduce tax liabilities through certain deductions, credits and exclusions.

Deductions:

• Taxpayers may reduce taxable compensation for allowable unreimbursed expenses that are ordinary, actual, reasonable, necessary and directly related to the taxpayer’s occupation or employment.
• PA law allows three deductions against income: deductions for medical savings account contributions, health savings account contributions and IRC Section 529 tuition account program contributions.

Personal Income Tax

Given these few deductions, I would state without reservation that state is relatively deduction free in addition to having a flat tax rate. I should know, I lived there for 32 years, so the poster is incorrect in that flat tax areas do not exist.

Do the people of PA pat federal income taxes?

Idiot.

 

[KGB]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Dumb idea. That is why it isn't done anywhere.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has a flat income tax rate of 3.07%, so you are incorrect.

Idiot.

I lived there for 32 years, I think I know what I'm talking about....

 

[rightwinger]

President Trump is part of that 47%

Then more reason for you to support a flat tax with no deductions on gross income.

I'd rather see him lose his exemption for making a bad investment

Now THAT's easy

So you don't like people investing in a possible cure for cancer?

Trump invested in an overpriced casino and airline with TRUMP on it

Hardly a cure for cancer

So you support my no deductions

I could work that....but I do not trust that deductions for the wealthy would slowly work their way back into the tax code while my deductions are gone for good

 

[Weatherman2020]

How does one measure "income ".

Take Donald Trump . Think of how complicated it is to measure his income .

But let's take a simpler example . Some guy who has his own plumbing business . Works for himself , no employees . You've eliminated all deductions right? No depreciation or anything .

My home value is going up $30K a month.

But it's funny money, not income.

 

[KGB]

Unfortunately the DC elitists require everything be so complex and you need to hire lawyers for everything so they can maintain control over you.

A flat tax on gross income, no deductions. Period.

You earn X dollars, you pay a percentage. Same percentage for all. I have no idea what that percentage should be, but for the sake of discussion say it is 10%. You earn $100,000, you pay $10,000. You earn $1,000 you pay $100.

But weatherman, the lowest earners are paying the same percentage as millionaires!

Yep. Everyone has a vested interest in America. The same vested interest on how America does.

Dumb idea. That is why it isn't done anywhere.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has a flat income tax rate of 3.07%, so you are incorrect.

Pennsylvania has tax deductions. So he's right.

The Pennsylvania personal income tax does not provide for a standard deduction or personal exemption. However, individuals may reduce tax liabilities through certain deductions, credits and exclusions.

Deductions:

• Taxpayers may reduce taxable compensation for allowable unreimbursed expenses that are ordinary, actual, reasonable, necessary and directly related to the taxpayer’s occupation or employment.
• PA law allows three deductions against income: deductions for medical savings account contributions, health savings account contributions and IRC Section 529 tuition account program contributions.

Personal Income Tax

Given these few deductions, I would state without reservation that state is relatively deduction free in addition to having a flat tax rate. I should know, I lived there for 32 years, so the poster is incorrect in that flat tax areas do not exist.

Do the people of PA pat federal income taxes?

Idiot.

If you would follow what is written, I was responding to someone who said areas in which flat taxes don't exist is incorrect. Pennsylvania uses a flat tax rate. It has nothing to do with Federal taxes.

 

[g5000]

Here's How Much 10 Of The Richest People In The World Made Per Minute In 2013

Bill Gates: He earned $11.5 billion this year

Same year:

“I paid over $6 billion in US taxes, glad to have done it,” he added.

Bill Gates ‘glad’ to pay taxes


So, in reality, Bill Gates paid more than 50% of his income in taxes.

He was not able to deduct 90 percent, as was so ridiculously premised in your post, Weatherman.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Then more reason for you to support a flat tax with no deductions on gross income.

I'd rather see him lose his exemption for making a bad investment

Now THAT's easy

So you don't like people investing in a possible cure for cancer?

Trump invested in an overpriced casino and airline with TRUMP on it

Hardly a cure for cancer

So you support my no deductions

I could work that....but I do not trust that deductions for the wealthy would slowly work their way back into the tax code while my deductions are gone for good

Yes, that's why a small limited government with common citizens being elected instead of career politicians is required.

 

[g5000]

Bill Gates earned $11.5 billion, and was taxed $6 billion under the current system.

He would pay MUCH less under a flat tax system. That's a hard, unavoidable fact.

Especially if he was able to still declare the same deductions he currently does.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Here's How Much 10 Of The Richest People In The World Made Per Minute In 2013

Bill Gates: He earned $11.5 billion this year

Same year:

“I paid over $6 billion in US taxes, glad to have done it,” he added.

Bill Gates ‘glad’ to pay taxes


So, in reality, Bill Gates paid more than 50% of his income in taxes.

He was not able to deduct 90 percent, as was so ridiculously premised in your post, Weatherman.

I said I used even numbers for discussion purposes, Dufus. Learn what a hypothetical scenario is.

 

[pinqy]

Except...

Table 1203. Income before taxes: Annual expenditure means, shares, standard errors, and coefficients of variation, Consumer Expenditure
Survey, 2015

In 2015, the percent of pre-tax income spent only on food and housing was as follows:
< $15,000: 162.3%
$15,000 - $29,999: 72.8%
$30,000 - $39,999: 55.4%
$40,000 - $49,999: 45.6%
$50,000 - $69,999: 40.2%
$70,000 - $99,999: 35.2%
$100,000 - $149,999: 30.4%
$150,000 - $199,999: 27.4%
$200,000+ : 20.1%

You don't have to be an Economist to figure out that a flat tax would have a disproportionately negative effect on lower income groups. Especially keeping in mind that for those who make less than $30,000 their post-tax income is actually higher than pre-tax.

Spending an extra 10% on taxes will not affect any of the necessities of life for higher incomes, but absolutely will for lower incomes.

47% or so of Americans do not pay Federal taxes. They have no vested interest in how America does?

According to the Census Population Clock, in July the total population in the U.S. was 325,365,189
According the Bureau of Labor Statistics Table A1, the total number of people age 16+ (excluding military and prison labor) who were working was 153,513,000
So that's over 50% of the population not working. That doesn't mean no income, but it does raise the question of where you think all those not currently paying Federal taxes would get the money from?

Democrats in Calif have made significant increases in energy, gas, and sales taxes, increased fees for mass transportation.

All which hits the poor the hardest.

The narrative that Democrats want to help the poor and are concerned about increasing their taxes is a fallacy.

And what does that have to do with anything I wrote? I'm neither a Democrat, nor in California, and I would agree that the energy and sales taxes, and increased transportation fees are regressive.

Then stop whining that the bottom earners will have to pay more. They get jabbed with higher taxes by libs all the time.

Who's whining? I'm pointing out facts. A flat income tax disproportionately affects those with lower income in that it affects their ability to purchase necessities, while it would not for higher incomes. If you're ok with that, fine, but don't pretend a flat tax is "fair" or equal.

Other taxes are irrelevant to a discussion of income taxes, unless you want to talk about total taxes paid. The number one regressive tax is, of course, the lottery.