Since free college isn't free...what is wrong with actually paying it back?

[2aguy]

why do the left wing regressives insist that college should be free...or rather, that the money for people's education should be extracted at gunpoint from other taxpayers....many of whom will not go to college?

Why don't they insist that those people attending college on the taxpayers expense, pay back the money they get......?

Why is that such a hard concept for bernie and hilary and the rest of the left wing regressives to get?

What's your next brilliant idea?

Selling food stamps to the Poor?

so..it is wrong to expect that people who take money from other people to finance their education...against their will....should pay that money back after they are employed......what exactly is wrong with that concept?

 

[Unkotare]

Franco the illiterate punk chimes in again ^^^^^

 

[Unkotare]

When are you going to pay back the cost of the free roads you drive on every day?

When are you going to demand that liberal college professors work for free? Why aren't they like Plato who just sat around on rocks giving out free education to whoever wanted to listen?

What is it with these damn capitalist teachers who want to get rich educating our young people? WTF?

On top of the salaries that those teachers make, the average for-profit college has a 19% profit margin. That's average of course; some are doing much much better.

I wonder why these colleges don't sell stock? I'm sure nearly every investor in the country and around the world would buy it. Heck, I would take out a home equity loan and buy as much as I could afford. I would be paying 4% in interest on the loan but the money would be making me 19% on the investment That's a 15% return.

But I digress: Aren't those Walton people that own Walmart greedy MF"s?

Don't forget their endowments...Harvard has billions in endowments and could allow free tuition all on their own for all of their students...notice they aren't talking about that.

Why would they do that? That would be kinda stupid.

Yeah...why pay to educate the next generation of leaders when they can get the guy putting in the floors in the lecture hall do it for them...then they can continue to pay 100,000 dollar salaries to professors teaching poetry.....

Save the drama queen nonsense for someone who'll be impressed. Think about running a business, and then decide if you'd give away your product for 'free' (not to mention what it would then be worth).

 

[2aguy]

I'm sorry, guy, when was the last time the government extracted taxes from you at "gunpoint". I though with all your tiny-dicked whining about all the guns you own to protect yourself from Government tyranny, the IRS would have quite the mess on its hands when it came to collect your tax bill.

Reality. you probably submitted your 1040 before this weekend. Meekly. Without a fight.

But anyway.. College.

I'm not keen on the government paying for college. I think kids should come out of High School with the requisite skills they need to hold down and make a good living.

But as long as you have corporations INSISTING that they won't consider an applicant without a college degree, then that should be available to everyone, just like HS and Elementary education are.

It is available to everyone. You just have to pay for it yourself, that's all.

You want to make K - 12 that way, and let the poor kids go without an education?

Which is consistent with wrongheaded conservative dogma: where income should determine the quality of healthcare and education, and those too poor to afford either should do without, the consequence of having ‘failed’ to be successful.

The neo-Social Darwinism advocated by most conservatives is one of the more reprehensible aspects of the American right.

Nope moron.....if someone pays for your college...you pay them back.......that is the moral thing to do.

Healthcare......can be affordable once you get rid of the government controlling it......just like you iPad and car........cheaper and better because the government doesn't control how you pay for it...

No, the moral thing to do in a moral society is to collectively alleviate the consequences of poverty by providing the poor assistance from those parts of the society who have more.

ANd we do....our poor have more than the poor anywhere else in the world...and our poor suffer from obesity, unlike the poor anywhere else in the world...we are doing fine by our poor.........and expecting people who get an education on the taxpayer dime to pay it back is just common sense........

 

[2aguy]

When are you going to demand that liberal college professors work for free? Why aren't they like Plato who just sat around on rocks giving out free education to whoever wanted to listen?

What is it with these damn capitalist teachers who want to get rich educating our young people? WTF?

On top of the salaries that those teachers make, the average for-profit college has a 19% profit margin. That's average of course; some are doing much much better.

I wonder why these colleges don't sell stock? I'm sure nearly every investor in the country and around the world would buy it. Heck, I would take out a home equity loan and buy as much as I could afford. I would be paying 4% in interest on the loan but the money would be making me 19% on the investment That's a 15% return.

But I digress: Aren't those Walton people that own Walmart greedy MF"s?

Don't forget their endowments...Harvard has billions in endowments and could allow free tuition all on their own for all of their students...notice they aren't talking about that.

Why would they do that? That would be kinda stupid.

Yeah...why pay to educate the next generation of leaders when they can get the guy putting in the floors in the lecture hall do it for them...then they can continue to pay 100,000 dollar salaries to professors teaching poetry.....

Save the drama queen nonsense for someone who'll be impressed. Think about running a business, and then decide if you'd give away your product for 'free' (not to mention what it would then be worth).

Wrong.....they expect taxpayers to pay the bill for their customers......and use their resources to lobby politicians to do it.......

Harvard and the other universities increase their tuition above inflation because they know that their students get loans from the government........their is no limiting factor on how much they can charge for their service.....that needs to stop.

 

[Unkotare]

On top of the salaries that those teachers make, the average for-profit college has a 19% profit margin. That's average of course; some are doing much much better.

I wonder why these colleges don't sell stock? I'm sure nearly every investor in the country and around the world would buy it. Heck, I would take out a home equity loan and buy as much as I could afford. I would be paying 4% in interest on the loan but the money would be making me 19% on the investment That's a 15% return.

But I digress: Aren't those Walton people that own Walmart greedy MF"s?

Don't forget their endowments...Harvard has billions in endowments and could allow free tuition all on their own for all of their students...notice they aren't talking about that.

Why would they do that? That would be kinda stupid.

Yeah...why pay to educate the next generation of leaders when they can get the guy putting in the floors in the lecture hall do it for them...then they can continue to pay 100,000 dollar salaries to professors teaching poetry.....

Save the drama queen nonsense for someone who'll be impressed. Think about running a business, and then decide if you'd give away your product for 'free' (not to mention what it would then be worth).

Wrong.....they expect taxpayers to pay the bill for their customers......and use their resources to lobby politicians to do it.......

Harvard and the other universities increase their tuition above inflation because they know that their students get loans from the government........their is no limiting factor on how much they can charge for their service.....that needs to stop.

Your bitch is with the government, not the universities.

 

[2aguy]

Don't forget their endowments...Harvard has billions in endowments and could allow free tuition all on their own for all of their students...notice they aren't talking about that.

Why would they do that? That would be kinda stupid.

Yeah...why pay to educate the next generation of leaders when they can get the guy putting in the floors in the lecture hall do it for them...then they can continue to pay 100,000 dollar salaries to professors teaching poetry.....

Save the drama queen nonsense for someone who'll be impressed. Think about running a business, and then decide if you'd give away your product for 'free' (not to mention what it would then be worth).

Wrong.....they expect taxpayers to pay the bill for their customers......and use their resources to lobby politicians to do it.......

Harvard and the other universities increase their tuition above inflation because they know that their students get loans from the government........their is no limiting factor on how much they can charge for their service.....that needs to stop.

Your bitch is with the government, not the universities.

Yep....but the universities are co conspirators........

 

[2aguy]

Don't forget their endowments...Harvard has billions in endowments and could allow free tuition all on their own for all of their students...notice they aren't talking about that.

Why would they do that? That would be kinda stupid.

Yeah...why pay to educate the next generation of leaders when they can get the guy putting in the floors in the lecture hall do it for them...then they can continue to pay 100,000 dollar salaries to professors teaching poetry.....

Save the drama queen nonsense for someone who'll be impressed. Think about running a business, and then decide if you'd give away your product for 'free' (not to mention what it would then be worth).

Wrong.....they expect taxpayers to pay the bill for their customers......and use their resources to lobby politicians to do it.......

Harvard and the other universities increase their tuition above inflation because they know that their students get loans from the government........their is no limiting factor on how much they can charge for their service.....that needs to stop.

Your bitch is with the government, not the universities.

The reason college costs so much...the government interference in the process....

Federal Financial Aid Is The Real Reason College Costs Too Much


My reading of the empirical evidence suggests the Bennett Hypothesis is the biggest factor in explaining the tuition explosion. From 1910 to about 1978, tuition fees rose about 1% a year adjusting for inflation–explainable by the Baumol Effect (colleges are a service industry with no opportunity for productivity advance). Since 1978, fee increases have over doubled, to closer to 3% a year, reflecting the enormous growth in student loan and grant programs.


It is very unlikely, then, the the rise in tuition fees will stop without some reform of federal student financial aid programs. Those programs are working very poorly. They are not achieving their main goal of increasing the proportion of college graduates from the bottom quartile of the income distribution (it is now about 10%, compared with 12% in 1970, when loan programs were in their infancy).

They have led, however, to higher enrollments –but to what purpose? The New York Federal Reserve and my research center have independently estimated that nearly half of recent college graduates are under-employed, taking jobs previously held by high school diploma holders. Moreover, some of the increase in enrollments involves students lacking the ability to master high level rigorous work that is the hallmark of “higher” education. This has led to grade inflation and a lowering of academic standards.

 

[Unkotare]

Why would they do that? That would be kinda stupid.

Yeah...why pay to educate the next generation of leaders when they can get the guy putting in the floors in the lecture hall do it for them...then they can continue to pay 100,000 dollar salaries to professors teaching poetry.....

Save the drama queen nonsense for someone who'll be impressed. Think about running a business, and then decide if you'd give away your product for 'free' (not to mention what it would then be worth).

Wrong.....they expect taxpayers to pay the bill for their customers......and use their resources to lobby politicians to do it.......

Harvard and the other universities increase their tuition above inflation because they know that their students get loans from the government........their is no limiting factor on how much they can charge for their service.....that needs to stop.

Your bitch is with the government, not the universities.

Yep....but the universities are co conspirators........

The universities are only acting rationally.

 

[JoeB131]

No, what's idiotic is having children you can't afford to feed, to clothe, to educate, and expecting working people to foot the bill. That's what's idiotic.

No, what's idiotic is working people thinking other working people are "the problem" and giving the 1% a complete pass.

That's idiotic. You live in a city that was utterly raped and discarded by the 1%, and you blame poor people for it.

 

[JoeB131]

Some towns do operate that way. If you don't pay for fire protection insurance, the fire department won't help you. If your house is on fire, they may come out to help protect your neighbors home or property, but not yours.

However police and fire departments are necessities that we all agree to have. You vote for it as an individual issue.

The towns that do that are in Jesus-land, I'm sure.

So if we vote for "Free College for Everyone", you aren't going to be bitching about the issue anymore, then?

 

[JoeB131]

Exactly. Libs want me to go to work everyday and pay for the college of somebody else. Then when that person graduates and I go to them because I need a lawyer, they charge me $150.00 an hour. Wait a minute, how can you charge me that kind of money when I paid for you to get that education?

College is an investment like any other. I don't expect the taxpayer to pay for my investments in the stock market. I don't expect the taxpayer to pay for my investments in real estate. I don't expect the taxpayer to pay for my commodity investments, I don't expect the taxpayer to pay for the lottery tickets I buy, why should we expect the taxpayer to pay for the investment of an advanced education that will not benefit them?

I think this is where you are a little confused. It's not about what benefits YOU PERSONALLY, it's what benefits society. We need a certain number of nurses, doctors, engineers, administrators, etc. If we want to produce an adequate amount of them, we need to be ready to pay to have it done, not just hope the market creates them.

Now- that said - I think there needs to be a LOT of reform of education before we start handing out free tuition vouchers to everyone. I think we need to get "For Profit" colleges up to standards. I CRINGE every time I see a "University of Phoenix" commercial, because those people are complete frauds.

 

[JoeB131]

As to taxes.....if you hold back even one dollar in taxes from the government, one day there will be armed men at your door to arrest you...and take everything you have.....

Try it......send in all of your taxes except one dollar...and refuse to give them that dollar when they ask for it...see how long it takes for them to come for you...have your lawyer keep us informed.

Actually, I usually get money back, but the point is, you don't hold back that "one dollar'. For all your tiny-dicked ranting about how you needs your gun to protect yourself from the evil government, you meekly turned in your tax forms like a good little wage slave.

That's okay, buddy. I know how impotent you feel. Go spend a couple hours cleaning your guns, it will make you feel better about yourself.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Why would a 17 year old kid want to go to college?

so they don't end up as an idiot in clown face posting on a political forum for a living?

 

[BluesLegend]

The problem with college tuition is simple, government idiots stepped in to guarantee student loans that otherwise lenders would never have made, allowing the cost of tuition to skyrocket. Hell why not charge $150k for a 4 year degree if its guaranteed money by the government. Brilliant plan, slave young people out to student loan debt for 15 years that's the way to start their young adult lives for fucks sake.

 

[Arianrhod]

The intelligent idea is to pay it forward.

You get a degree and become a doctor, nurse, teacher, etc. and you give back to society.

Education is an investment. Only the uneducated fail to understand that.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes...so with their education and their employment opportunity they can pay back the money....they don't need free college....right? But you expect the plumbers kid to pay for the free college of the Doctors kid.....

The doctor is probably paying more in taxes than the plumber, so that argument fails.

So, even though you are generally incapable of having a rational conversation, Dick Tiny, the fact is, as it is now, we are not producing enough doctors, nurses, engineers to meet our needs. It's why we have to issue 65,000 1HB visas every year to get the talent we need .

It's why we are going to be 1 million nurses short in the next five years.

Yeah...why pay to educate the next generation of leaders when they can get the guy putting in the floors in the lecture hall do it for them...then they can continue to pay 100,000 dollar salaries to professors teaching poetry.....

Uh, guy a lot of professors don't make anywhere near that.

Professors on food stamps: The shocking true story of academia in 2014

“The most shocking thing is that many of us don’t even earn the federal minimum wage,” said Miranda Merklein, an adjunct professor from Santa Fe who started teaching in 2008. “Our students didn’t know that professors with PhDs aren’t even earning as much as an entry-level fast food worker. We’re not calling for the $15 minimum wage. We don’t even make minimum wage. And we have no benefits and no job security.”


Over three quarters of college professors are adjunct. Legally, adjunct positions are part-time, at-will employment. Universities pay adjunct professors by the course,anywhere between $1,000 to $5,000. So if a professor teaches three courses in both the fall and spring semesters at a rate of $3000 per course, they’ll make $18,000 dollars. The average full-time barista makes the same yearly wage. However, a full-time adjunct works more than 40 hours a week. They’re not paid for most of those hours.

 

[CowboyTed]

Could the RW please, oh f*cking please make sure that your candidates tell all those parents at home that there kids don't need to goto college.. Please just do that...

I don't think the RW know the correlation between education and wealth... Education pays 9 times its investment by the government back... Only a muppet wouldn't take that on, 9 times return by investing in your kids... No brainer..

 

[Unkotare]

The intelligent idea is to pay it forward.

You get a degree and become a doctor, nurse, teacher, etc. and you give back to society.

If you work in any of those fields, you are already giving back to society.

 

[Arianrhod]

^Exactly.