Since free college isn't free...what is wrong with actually paying it back?

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes...so with their education and their employment opportunity they can pay back the money....they don't need free college....right? But you expect the plumbers kid to pay for the free college of the Doctors kid.....

The doctor is probably paying more in taxes than the plumber, so that argument fails.

So, even though you are generally incapable of having a rational conversation, Dick Tiny, the fact is, as it is now, we are not producing enough doctors, nurses, engineers to meet our needs. It's why we have to issue 65,000 1HB visas every year to get the talent we need .

It's why we are going to be 1 million nurses short in the next five years.

Yeah...why pay to educate the next generation of leaders when they can get the guy putting in the floors in the lecture hall do it for them...then they can continue to pay 100,000 dollar salaries to professors teaching poetry.....

Uh, guy a lot of professors don't make anywhere near that.

Professors on food stamps: The shocking true story of academia in 2014

“The most shocking thing is that many of us don’t even earn the federal minimum wage,” said Miranda Merklein, an adjunct professor from Santa Fe who started teaching in 2008. “Our students didn’t know that professors with PhDs aren’t even earning as much as an entry-level fast food worker. We’re not calling for the $15 minimum wage. We don’t even make minimum wage. And we have no benefits and no job security.”


Over three quarters of college professors are adjunct. Legally, adjunct positions are part-time, at-will employment. Universities pay adjunct professors by the course,anywhere between $1,000 to $5,000. So if a professor teaches three courses in both the fall and spring semesters at a rate of $3000 per course, they’ll make $18,000 dollars. The average full-time barista makes the same yearly wage. However, a full-time adjunct works more than 40 hours a week. They’re not paid for most of those hours.

Salaries vary widely by field and rank, ranging from $45,927 for an assistant professor in theology to $136,634 for a full professor in legal professions and studies.[43] A 2005 study, by the College and University Professional Association for Human Resources, found the average salary for all faculty members, including instructors, to be $66,407, placing half of all faculty members in the top 15.3% of income earners above the age of 25. Median salaries were $54,000 for assistant professors, $64,000 for associate professors and $86,000 for full professors 2005.[44] During the 2005–06 year, salaries for assistant professors ranged from $45,927 in theology to $81,005 in law. For associate professors, salaries ranged from $56,943 in theology to $98,530 in law, while salaries among full professors ranged from $68,214 in theology to $136,634 in law.[43] During the 2010–11 year, associate professor salaries vary from $59,593 in theology to $93,767 in law.[45] Full professors at elite institutions commonly enjoy six-figure incomes, such as $123,300 at UCLA or $148,500 at Stanford.[46] The CSU system, which is the largest system in the U.S., with over 11,000 faculty members, had an average full-time faculty salary of $74,000 in 2007, which had been scheduled to increase to $91,000 by 2011.[

Professors in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Indeependent]

Yes...so with their education and their employment opportunity they can pay back the money....they don't need free college....right? But you expect the plumbers kid to pay for the free college of the Doctors kid.....

The doctor is probably paying more in taxes than the plumber, so that argument fails.

So, even though you are generally incapable of having a rational conversation, Dick Tiny, the fact is, as it is now, we are not producing enough doctors, nurses, engineers to meet our needs. It's why we have to issue 65,000 1HB visas every year to get the talent we need .

It's why we are going to be 1 million nurses short in the next five years.

Yeah...why pay to educate the next generation of leaders when they can get the guy putting in the floors in the lecture hall do it for them...then they can continue to pay 100,000 dollar salaries to professors teaching poetry.....

Uh, guy a lot of professors don't make anywhere near that.

Professors on food stamps: The shocking true story of academia in 2014

“The most shocking thing is that many of us don’t even earn the federal minimum wage,” said Miranda Merklein, an adjunct professor from Santa Fe who started teaching in 2008. “Our students didn’t know that professors with PhDs aren’t even earning as much as an entry-level fast food worker. We’re not calling for the $15 minimum wage. We don’t even make minimum wage. And we have no benefits and no job security.”


Over three quarters of college professors are adjunct. Legally, adjunct positions are part-time, at-will employment. Universities pay adjunct professors by the course,anywhere between $1,000 to $5,000. So if a professor teaches three courses in both the fall and spring semesters at a rate of $3000 per course, they’ll make $18,000 dollars. The average full-time barista makes the same yearly wage. However, a full-time adjunct works more than 40 hours a week. They’re not paid for most of those hours.

The Physician shortage meme is as empty as any other.
In NY, Pro-Health is buying out Practices left and right, offering the bought out physicians 2 year contracts.
When the contracts expire the physicians have their pay cut by 150K or are replaced by Indian Business Visas.
Same old lie, newly targeted profession.
Who ever thought MBAs could convince Congress that non-Indian Physicians are incompetent boobs?
What a country.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Exactly. Libs want me to go to work everyday and pay for the college of somebody else. Then when that person graduates and I go to them because I need a lawyer, they charge me $150.00 an hour. Wait a minute, how can you charge me that kind of money when I paid for you to get that education?

College is an investment like any other. I don't expect the taxpayer to pay for my investments in the stock market. I don't expect the taxpayer to pay for my investments in real estate. I don't expect the taxpayer to pay for my commodity investments, I don't expect the taxpayer to pay for the lottery tickets I buy, why should we expect the taxpayer to pay for the investment of an advanced education that will not benefit them?

I think this is where you are a little confused. It's not about what benefits YOU PERSONALLY, it's what benefits society. We need a certain number of nurses, doctors, engineers, administrators, etc. If we want to produce an adequate amount of them, we need to be ready to pay to have it done, not just hope the market creates them.

Now- that said - I think there needs to be a LOT of reform of education before we start handing out free tuition vouchers to everyone. I think we need to get "For Profit" colleges up to standards. I CRINGE every time I see a "University of Phoenix" commercial, because those people are complete frauds.

The shortages of professions you listed are not because people can't afford to get an education in those fields, it's because they don't pay enough. That has nothing to do with the ability to attend college.

The point is society will benefit with the taxpayers paying for college or not, so it's a red herring to say that we are in desperate need of more kids getting an advanced education.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Some towns do operate that way. If you don't pay for fire protection insurance, the fire department won't help you. If your house is on fire, they may come out to help protect your neighbors home or property, but not yours.

However police and fire departments are necessities that we all agree to have. You vote for it as an individual issue.

The towns that do that are in Jesus-land, I'm sure.

So if we vote for "Free College for Everyone", you aren't going to be bitching about the issue anymore, then?

Sure I will. I was always against the idiotic system we have that allows people to vote money out of the pockets of others. But at least it would be by the choice of the people and not politicians trying to buy votes which is so common with the Democrat party.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, what's idiotic is having children you can't afford to feed, to clothe, to educate, and expecting working people to foot the bill. That's what's idiotic.

No, what's idiotic is working people thinking other working people are "the problem" and giving the 1% a complete pass.

That's idiotic. You live in a city that was utterly raped and discarded by the 1%, and you blame poor people for it.

Sure I do. Our city was fine until bussing invaded the place. Then people with money left the city to live in the suburbs or out in the country. That left the city with citizens who were elderly where bussing didn't affect them or people that didn't have the money to move out with. It had nothing to do with the 1%.

 

[2aguy]

My mother's oncologist.....wasn't making any money by the time she retired....she had so many expenses in just running her practice.....she convinced her son who had a full ride to a prestigious school to not go into medicine....there is no longer money in it.....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I would love to. Unfortunately that would make primary education unaffordable for most parents, however they should be paying much more into the school system than those who don't have kids.

That's just more of an indication of your overall idiocy.

No, what's idiotic is having children you can't afford to feed, to clothe, to educate, and expecting working people to foot the bill. That's what's idiotic.

Well, punishing the children for that is something only a conservative would cheer.

No..the left doesn't care about choldren..they care about the teacher's union dues.......we have accepted public schools......the left wants to trap poor kids in bad schools ...we want to give parent's the ability to get a real education for their kids through school choice....the left fights it tooth and nail...educated people are not helpful to the left...

Change the channel and find out you are wrong in all things. Charter schools are no better. We need smaller classes and a society that doesn't screw the poor and minorities and then blames them....hater dupes.

Do you know why educators think we need smaller classes? It's because the smaller the classes, the more teachers that are needed. The more teachers that are needed, the more union members they have.

Class size has nothing to do with the quality of education--it has to do with unions screwing the public.

 

[2aguy]

That's just more of an indication of your overall idiocy.

No, what's idiotic is having children you can't afford to feed, to clothe, to educate, and expecting working people to foot the bill. That's what's idiotic.

Well, punishing the children for that is something only a conservative would cheer.

No..the left doesn't care about choldren..they care about the teacher's union dues.......we have accepted public schools......the left wants to trap poor kids in bad schools ...we want to give parent's the ability to get a real education for their kids through school choice....the left fights it tooth and nail...educated people are not helpful to the left...

Change the channel and find out you are wrong in all things. Charter schools are no better. We need smaller classes and a society that doesn't screw the poor and minorities and then blames them....hater dupes.

Do you know why educators think we need smaller classes? It's because the smaller the classes, the more teachers that are needed. The more teachers that are needed, the more union members they have.

Class size has nothing to do with the quality of education--it has to do with unions screwing the public.

And in Japan their class sizes are huge.........

 

[Unkotare]

That's just more of an indication of your overall idiocy.

No, what's idiotic is having children you can't afford to feed, to clothe, to educate, and expecting working people to foot the bill. That's what's idiotic.

Well, punishing the children for that is something only a conservative would cheer.

No..the left doesn't care about choldren..they care about the teacher's union dues.......we have accepted public schools......the left wants to trap poor kids in bad schools ...we want to give parent's the ability to get a real education for their kids through school choice....the left fights it tooth and nail...educated people are not helpful to the left...

Change the channel and find out you are wrong in all things. Charter schools are no better. We need smaller classes and a society that doesn't screw the poor and minorities and then blames them....hater dupes.

Do you know why educators think we need smaller classes? It's because the smaller the classes, the more teachers that are needed. The more teachers that are needed, the more union members they have.

Class size has nothing to do with the quality of education--it has to do with unions screwing the public.

Now you're overdoing it.

 

[Indeependent]

No, what's idiotic is having children you can't afford to feed, to clothe, to educate, and expecting working people to foot the bill. That's what's idiotic.

Well, punishing the children for that is something only a conservative would cheer.

No..the left doesn't care about choldren..they care about the teacher's union dues.......we have accepted public schools......the left wants to trap poor kids in bad schools ...we want to give parent's the ability to get a real education for their kids through school choice....the left fights it tooth and nail...educated people are not helpful to the left...

Change the channel and find out you are wrong in all things. Charter schools are no better. We need smaller classes and a society that doesn't screw the poor and minorities and then blames them....hater dupes.

Do you know why educators think we need smaller classes? It's because the smaller the classes, the more teachers that are needed. The more teachers that are needed, the more union members they have.

Class size has nothing to do with the quality of education--it has to do with unions screwing the public.

Now you're overdoing it.

Nope.

 

[Unkotare]

Well, punishing the children for that is something only a conservative would cheer.

No..the left doesn't care about choldren..they care about the teacher's union dues.......we have accepted public schools......the left wants to trap poor kids in bad schools ...we want to give parent's the ability to get a real education for their kids through school choice....the left fights it tooth and nail...educated people are not helpful to the left...

Change the channel and find out you are wrong in all things. Charter schools are no better. We need smaller classes and a society that doesn't screw the poor and minorities and then blames them....hater dupes.

Do you know why educators think we need smaller classes? It's because the smaller the classes, the more teachers that are needed. The more teachers that are needed, the more union members they have.

Class size has nothing to do with the quality of education--it has to do with unions screwing the public.

Now you're overdoing it.

Nope.

Quite a bit.

 

[Indeependent]

No..the left doesn't care about choldren..they care about the teacher's union dues.......we have accepted public schools......the left wants to trap poor kids in bad schools ...we want to give parent's the ability to get a real education for their kids through school choice....the left fights it tooth and nail...educated people are not helpful to the left...

Change the channel and find out you are wrong in all things. Charter schools are no better. We need smaller classes and a society that doesn't screw the poor and minorities and then blames them....hater dupes.

Do you know why educators think we need smaller classes? It's because the smaller the classes, the more teachers that are needed. The more teachers that are needed, the more union members they have.

Class size has nothing to do with the quality of education--it has to do with unions screwing the public.

Now you're overdoing it.

Nope.

Quite a bit.

Perhaps it depends on the State or Region.
NY & NJ teachers live for their bloated salaries, benefits, perks and pensions and continuously bitch like hell how they have it worse than coal miners.
Annoying and boring.

 

[Unkotare]

Change the channel and find out you are wrong in all things. Charter schools are no better. We need smaller classes and a society that doesn't screw the poor and minorities and then blames them....hater dupes.

Do you know why educators think we need smaller classes? It's because the smaller the classes, the more teachers that are needed. The more teachers that are needed, the more union members they have.

Class size has nothing to do with the quality of education--it has to do with unions screwing the public.

Now you're overdoing it.

Nope.

Quite a bit.

Perhaps it depends on the State or Region.
NY & NJ teachers live for their bloated salaries, benefits, perks and pensions and continuously bitch like hell how they have it worse than coal miners.
Annoying and boring.

Do you know anyone who thinks they're overpaid for what they do?

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Do you know why educators think we need smaller classes? It's because the smaller the classes, the more teachers that are needed. The more teachers that are needed, the more union members they have.

Class size has nothing to do with the quality of education--it has to do with unions screwing the public.

Now you're overdoing it.

Nope.

Quite a bit.

Perhaps it depends on the State or Region.
NY & NJ teachers live for their bloated salaries, benefits, perks and pensions and continuously bitch like hell how they have it worse than coal miners.
Annoying and boring.

Do you know anyone who thinks they're overpaid for what they do?

At a final rate of roughly $62.00 an hour as a Senior Network Engineer for the government. I have to say that I was seriously overpaid. But hey, they offered, it wasn't like I was going to tell them no.

 

[Indeependent]

Do you know why educators think we need smaller classes? It's because the smaller the classes, the more teachers that are needed. The more teachers that are needed, the more union members they have.

Class size has nothing to do with the quality of education--it has to do with unions screwing the public.

Now you're overdoing it.

Nope.

Quite a bit.

Perhaps it depends on the State or Region.
NY & NJ teachers live for their bloated salaries, benefits, perks and pensions and continuously bitch like hell how they have it worse than coal miners.
Annoying and boring.

Do you know anyone who thinks they're overpaid for what they do?

The opposite...I know teachers complain about how impossibly hard their profession is and how nobody else can do it.
Poor little brats.
I DO admire them, though, for being able to wake up everyday for 30+ years at 5:00AM.

 

[Indeependent]

Now you're overdoing it.

Nope.

Quite a bit.

Perhaps it depends on the State or Region.
NY & NJ teachers live for their bloated salaries, benefits, perks and pensions and continuously bitch like hell how they have it worse than coal miners.
Annoying and boring.

Do you know anyone who thinks they're overpaid for what they do?

At a final rate of roughly $62.00 an hour as a Senior Network Engineer for the government. I have to say that I was seriously overpaid. But hey, they offered, it wasn't like I was going to tell them no.

You're NOT overpaid because the result of your work actually works.

 

[Unkotare]

Now you're overdoing it.

Nope.

Quite a bit.

Perhaps it depends on the State or Region.
NY & NJ teachers live for their bloated salaries, benefits, perks and pensions and continuously bitch like hell how they have it worse than coal miners.
Annoying and boring.

Do you know anyone who thinks they're overpaid for what they do?

The opposite...I know teachers complain about how impossibly hard their profession is and how nobody else can do it.

Is what you do so easy that anyone could do it?

 

[Indeependent]

Nope.

Quite a bit.

Perhaps it depends on the State or Region.
NY & NJ teachers live for their bloated salaries, benefits, perks and pensions and continuously bitch like hell how they have it worse than coal miners.
Annoying and boring.

Do you know anyone who thinks they're overpaid for what they do?

The opposite...I know teachers complain about how impossibly hard their profession is and how nobody else can do it.

Is what you do so easy that anyone could do it?

Before I was kicked out of software development by Bill Gates and Business Visas I had few peers.
But I could have been much better with inter-personal relationships.

In my current profession, the technical part can be taught in a few months if taught properly.
My current interpersonal skills are way above average and I am always called upon to settle very heated situations with customers.

Have I ever actively bitched about how hard any of my jobs have ever been? No.
Did I ever go out of my way to tell others they couldn't do my job? No.

 

[Unkotare]

Quite a bit.

Perhaps it depends on the State or Region.
NY & NJ teachers live for their bloated salaries, benefits, perks and pensions and continuously bitch like hell how they have it worse than coal miners.
Annoying and boring.

Do you know anyone who thinks they're overpaid for what they do?

The opposite...I know teachers complain about how impossibly hard their profession is and how nobody else can do it.

Is what you do so easy that anyone could do it?

Before I was kicked out of software development by Bill Gates and Business Visas I had few peers.
But I could have been much better with inter-personal relationships.

In my current profession, the technical part can be taught in a few months if taught properly.
My current interpersonal skills are way above average and I am always called upon to settle very heated situations with customers.

Have I ever actively bitched about how hard any of my jobs have ever been? No.
Did I ever go out of my way to tell others they couldn't do my job? No.

And if someone belittled you and your profession, you'd agree with them?

 

[hellraiser]

why do the left wing regressives insist that college should be free...or rather, that the money for people's education should be extracted at gunpoint from other taxpayers....many of whom will not go to college?

Why don't they insist that those people attending college on the taxpayers expense, pay back the money they get......?

Why is that such a hard concept for bernie and hilary and the rest of the left wing regressives to get?

Apparently you are an elitist aristocratic moron. In France (and probably some other countries) college is free. I guess for some reason, those frenchies figure that the more well educated people there are around, the more their society in general would benifit. That idea must be pretty disgusting to you. Because the worse off society in general is, the more exailted the wealthy can feel.

Did the Central Sharia Council in the Islamic State of France decide that........you can see where decades of free college with no economic growth is leading them. And again...it is not free, someone has to actually work, pay taxes and then the kid goes to college taking that money from the people who may not have gone themselves...and then goes on welfare when they graduate with the degree in 17th Century French Poets.....

I don't know when the French started paying for college. (And I doubt if there was any islamic reason for it) I don't remember what documentary it was that I found out that they did. It might have been "Sicko" or "Capitalism: A love story." But if I knew that I could have gotten a free college education, I would probably have done so. And I wouldn't have taken 17th century French poetry.