Since when does the Catholic Church have the right to force their religious values...

[NYcarbineer]

The government is the one shoving beliefs on people here.

No, that is absolutely untrue because the Catholic Church's businesses in 20 states already provide this sort of coverage for their employees.

Again, provide the relevant proof that those states are not exempting the Churches.

Go ahead. Research that claim. It does not hold up. You're lying... or maybe you really don't know that your wrong?

Churches themselves are exempt in Obamacare. For the thousandth time.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Your church already complies with this law, or forms of it, in 20 states.

This is the ultimate exercise in faux outrage by the Church.

lol...we could never do this!!! even though we already do this!!!!!!!!!

your Church is a farce.

look at your posts NYCarbineer.

According to you, anyone who thinks differently than you is a farce.

So that pretty much squashes the intergtiy of this post of yours in particular.

Because I'm right and you are wrong. Churches do not get to run businesses outside US law simply because they have a piece of dogma that conflicts with that law.

That is fact. That is irrefutable.

The left trying to spin that this is "law", is leftist dogma
Trying to make it sound more than what it is,....


This is only regulation
Regulation that has been done by gov't fiat

It can be changed at the drop of a hat

Only Banana Republics pass "laws" that way

 

[California Girl]

No, that is absolutely untrue because the Catholic Church's businesses in 20 states already provide this sort of coverage for their employees.

Again, provide the relevant proof that those states are not exempting the Churches.

Go ahead. Research that claim. It does not hold up. You're lying... or maybe you really don't know that your wrong?

Churches themselves are exempt in Obamacare. For the thousandth time.

And, in other states - the 20 you keep pulling out of your ass - all affiliated charities are too. You keep spouting bullshit like it backs up your argument, and, it does not. It backs up the opposite.

You are a dishonest hack.

 

[Cecilie1200]

...on their non Catholic employees?

Churches are exempt from the ruling.

However, religious institutions that employ and serve people outside their faith -- hospitals, elementary schools, universities -- have to comply with the requirement to cover birth control if they offer health insurance coverage for employees. That means such Catholic institutions, which employ and serve wide swaths of non-Catholics across the country, will not be exempt, despite church teachings against use of contraception.

Obama Administration's New Contraception Rule Puts Key Catholic Vote at Risk

What gives the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter) the right to force their religious convictions on employees who aren't even catholic?

Only in Leftist Land is refusing to participate in someone's actions FORCING the opposite action upon them.

Is anyone stopping those women from buying their own frigging birth control? Is the Pope standing in the Walgreens doorway, blocking them from whipping out their credit cards and paying for their prescriptions?

What gives those employees the right to force THEIR religious convictions onto their employers, hmm? Where's your outrage about THAT, hypocrite?

 

[bripat9643]

Churches do not get to run businesses outside US law simply because they have a piece of dogma that conflicts with that law.

That is fact. That is irrefutable.

Actually, yes they do. We have laws against Peyote, but the religious practices of certain tribes in New Mexico that involve its use are allowed because of the First Amendment.

Your so-called "fact" is easily refutable.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Wait!

What?

The Church is forcing people to work for it?

Heaven forefend!

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

Apparently, YOU think refusing to aid people in their decisions is denying them their decisions. Hey, I refuse to pay for your food. Does that mean I'm denying you the right to eat? I'm forcing you to starve?

What idiocy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The government is the one shoving beliefs on people here.

No, that is absolutely untrue because the Catholic Church's businesses in 20 states already provide this sort of coverage for their employees.

Again, provide the relevant proof that those states are not exempting the Churches.

Go ahead. Research that claim. It does not hold up. You're lying... or maybe you really don't know that your wrong?

Feel free to offer substantive evidence that any of the information below is not factual:



But many Catholic institutions are already operating in states that require contraceptive coverage, such as New York and California. Such laws are on the books in 28 states, and only eight of them exempt Catholic hospitals and universities. Nowhere has the Catholic Church shut down in response.

...

And yet, somehow, Catholic institutions have continued operating. Nationwide, major Catholic universities including Fordham, Georgetown, and DePaul all offer birth-control coverage. So does Dignity Health, until recently known as Catholic Healthcare West, the fifth-largest health system in the country. In Massachusetts, the six former Caritas Christi Catholic hospitals, which were recently acquired by Steward Health Care System, all complied with the state law.

...

Catholics

 

[Cecilie1200]

What gives the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter) the right to force their religious convictions on employees who aren't even catholic?

Arrogance.

The Catholic Church likes to set up secular organizations, take billions in state aid, then force their beliefs upon the community via these secular institutions.

Arrogance explains this.

Oh, look, Valox the Coward is here to make pronouncements about reality, and then refuse to prove anything he says.

Cowardice explains this. Move along, chickenshit.

 

[FuelRod]

I didn't know employment within the Catholic Church required indentured servanthood. It's amazing they have so many applicants.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Wait!

What?

The Church is forcing people to work for it?

Heaven forefend!

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

They are welcome to seek employment elsewhere.

They're also welcome to continue working there and buy their own damned birth control.

What, they didn't know the employer they were applying for a job with was the Catholic Church? Really? All those statues of saints all over the place wasn't a clue?

 

[NYcarbineer]

http://ozebook.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Goebbels_spricht.jpgIMG]

Churches do not get to run businesses outside US law simply because they have a piece of dogma that conflicts with that law.

That is fact. That is irrefutable.[/quote]

Actually, yes they do. We have laws against Peyote, but the religious practices of certain tribes in New Mexico that involve its use are allowed because of the First Amendment.

Your so-called "fact" is easily refutable.[/QUOTE]

Can the Indians open a peyote store in your local mall?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

They are welcome to seek employment elsewhere.

Not according the CRA which bars employers who serve the public from discriminating based on religion.

Oh? The CRA says they're not welcome to seek employment elsewhere? They're forcd to work there, are they?

Now you're not only a coward, you're unintelligible.

 

[Jarhead]

Where did I say unions can? You're arguing with someone who isn't here.

then I take back my statement.
I assumed you believed that...I assumed wrong.

Here's an idea. If you want to debate an issue, debate the issue. Don't try to make it about the person you're arguing with.

We would all do better (yes, including myself) if we would stick to debating the facts of the cases and stop wasting time trying to prove the other person is inconsistent, or hypocritical.

Even if a person IS hypocritical, that has NOTHING to do with the merits of the case...

...most people won't accept that fact, but it's true.

Fair enough...

However...I made it clear I erred....and other than a few posts, most of mine are of the issues and the merits of my position.

But yes, once in a while I throw in a personal jab....as you do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Lots of employers have rules and restrictions....

Next we're going to have people working for Orthodox Jewish organizations bitching because they don't serve pork chops in the cafeteria.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Your church already complies with this law, or forms of it, in 20 states.

This is the ultimate exercise in faux outrage by the Church.

lol...we could never do this!!! even though we already do this!!!!!!!!!

your Church is a farce.

look at your posts NYCarbineer.

According to you, anyone who thinks differently than you is a farce.

So that pretty much squashes the intergtiy of this post of yours in particular.

Because I'm right and you are wrong. Churches do not get to run businesses outside US law simply because they have a piece of dogma that conflicts with that law.

That is fact. That is irrefutable.

prove it....

In the United States, labor laws including Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibit businesses from discriminating against employees based on the basis of religion......but the Church business is offering the same coverage to all employees.....therefore there is no discrimination....

Business law is also at times applied to religious organizations, due to their status as incorporated entities......

However......under the Civil Rights Act of 1964......There are partial and whole exceptions to Title VII for four types of employers:

Federal government; (Comment: The proscriptions against employment discrimination under Title VII are now applicable to the federal government under 42 U.S.C. Section 2000e-16)

Federally recognized Native American tribes

Religious groups performing work connected to the group's activities, including associated education institutions;

Bona fide nonprofit private membership organizations.

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Cecilie1200]

They are welcome to seek employment elsewhere.

Not according the CRA which bars employers who serve the public from discriminating based on religion.

We're aware of that. But we will not violate our conscience because your Asshole in the Oval says we have to. Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

He'll fold. Like a pack of cards. He picked the wrong religion to piss off.

You think the Catholics are bad, wait until the Muslims really get going on this. As near as I can tell, the only reason they're not already rioting in the streets is because they don't employ non-Muslims.

 

[California Girl]

No, that is absolutely untrue because the Catholic Church's businesses in 20 states already provide this sort of coverage for their employees.

Again, provide the relevant proof that those states are not exempting the Churches.

Go ahead. Research that claim. It does not hold up. You're lying... or maybe you really don't know that your wrong?

Feel free to offer substantive evidence that any of the information below is not factual:



But many Catholic institutions are already operating in states that require contraceptive coverage, such as New York and California. Such laws are on the books in 28 states, and only eight of them exempt Catholic hospitals and universities. Nowhere has the Catholic Church shut down in response.

...

And yet, somehow, Catholic institutions have continued operating. Nationwide, major Catholic universities including Fordham, Georgetown, and DePaul all offer birth-control coverage. So does Dignity Health, until recently known as Catholic Healthcare West, the fifth-largest health system in the country. In Massachusetts, the six former Caritas Christi Catholic hospitals, which were recently acquired by Steward Health Care System, all complied with the state law.

...

Catholics

You get your 'facts' from the media. I get mine from researching the topic for myself. That way, I avoid the 'misspeaks' that slip into the media's coverage.

Many of those affected by state legislation opt out and self insure - thus getting around the issue. Obama's clusterfuck stops that.

You can argue this all week but the facts won't change. You can move as many goalposts as you want but the facts will not move along with you.

Now, the issue at the heart of this is not about birth control. It is about faith organizations having their First Amendment Rights. It is a pity that you are so blind that you cannot see that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Not according the CRA which bars employers who serve the public from discriminating based on religion.

We're aware of that. But we will not violate our conscience because your Asshole in the Oval says we have to. Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

He'll fold. Like a pack of cards. He picked the wrong religion to piss off.

More logical fallacies from you. I unenthusiastically voted for Bob Barr last election, but according to you Obama is my man. Why? Just because I disagree with you? Therefore, anyone who disagrees with you must have voted for Obama.

I am also against the federal mandate (i.e. Obamacare), dumbass.

Stop trying to pigeon hole people who disagree with and force words into their mouth.

"Force words in their mouths." You mean the way you went and hunted up two Youtube videos and attributed them to "what Cecilie thinks"? Not just a coward, but a hypocrite, too.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Lots of employers have rules and restrictions....

When an employer reaches in to the employee's private life, he's going too far.

You're right. The employer should stay right the fuck out of the employee's private life . . . and not buy them any health insurance at all. Let the whining little bitches buy their own.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If someone doesn't want to follow the rules in a Catholic (or other Christian) hospital or business (like a catholic college) then they don't have to work there! When you hire into a job, they let you know their rules and how their company is run. If you don't like it...leave! But of course i believe one of Obama's top priorities is to take Christianity right out of the picture.

Again, the CRA prevents employers who serve the public from religious discrimination.

Therefore, stop serving the public if you want to take this sentiment.

Again, no one said, "The Catholic Church should fire them and refuse to hire non-Catholics." The CRA does not prevent EMPLOYEES from choosing an employer more to their liking.

Figures Valox the Coward, Mr. "Stop With the Strawmen", would immediately prop up one of his own. Cowardly AND hypocritical, just like always.