Slavery reparations?

[protectionist]

The best value to be gained from the historical past (regardless of the era or the specific circumstances) is knowledge. Much can be learned from past mistakes. Knowledge and growth trump temporal or material things.

The USA is nearly bankrupt as it is and can't afford to siphon any more cash from the already fragile tax base. All of America (including blacks) will be harmed if America's economy finally implodes. Sometimes we all need to be happy that we have what we have and we all need to stop finding ways to gain at the expense of others. I've been wronged before but I let it go and moved on with my life. Dwelling on past wrongs is more harmful to me that it is anyone else. Just learn, grow, and try to be the best we can be.

Thats not really true if you understand how our monetary system works. Where do you think the money comes from to finance wars? They print it with nothing to back it. Then they use taxes to cover it. If they can finance wars they can finance reparations. I dont buy that it will hurt anyone anymore than paying for a war will.

I'm not dwelling on past wrongs. I am debating the OP. I would not be successful if I dwelt on past wrongs. To me that line of thinking doesn't make sense if someone owes you money. Every company with unpaid bills tries to collect that money. I as a Black person I will never be duped by the "let it go" ruse. While I will not dwell on it, the existence of that unpaid debt will always leave a nasty feeling in my consciousness. I suspect most Black people feel the same.

It is NOT unpaid. It has been paid many times over, for 50 years, by affirmative action, at the expense of white people (male AND female), with the beneficiaries being modern days blacks, who never suffered one minute under slavery or Jim Crow laws. What you are doing is NOT feeling anything about any debt to you. It is more like just being a part of grab-loot culture, that you adhere to, being incapable of competing in society fairly.

 

[protectionist]

When holocaust survivors got money from Germany they had to prove actual damages. It certainly doesn't exist for an entire race.

Since there is no one alive that has been a slave in America legally, then no one can show damage because of slavery.

But they can. Just because you say they cant doesnt make it true. Holocaust survivors had to prove they were damaged just like anyone else would. Black people would have to prove they were descended from people that were enslaved. Same thing.

Holocaust survivors are people who lived through the holocaust. who were imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps. That is analogous to black people who were slaves. That's not you. You're just a descendant. So what ?

Now get on over to the union civil war cemetary, and get down on your knees and BEG forgiveness from the souls of those departed soldiers, for the bad things you've been saying here, and thank them for what they did for you and your ancestors.

 

[Foxfyre]

A group I am a member of recently toured the Holocaust and Intolerance Museum here in Albuquerque. Before the tour, we were treated to an excellent background lecture by a Jewish gentlemen, retired scientist and engineer, who now volunteers as a docent at the museum. He recounts that he was one of the lucky ones with a lot of family living in the USA at the time of WWII, so he has been blessed with extended family.

But he pointed to those, some now living here, who are the only living member of their families as all others were murdered at Auschwitz, Dachau, Belzec, and others. At least they have never been able to locate a member of their families since WWII ended. I can't imagine what that would be like, how painful, how lonely that would feel. And yes, Germany did make some restitution to the immediate victims of the Holocaust who had lost everything, but the descendants of that horror do not demand restitution/reparations.

Nor have the descendants of the Holocaust, while never forgetting that horror, considered themselves personally handicapped or disadvantaged. Most have gone on to accomplish great things and achieve personal success and satisfaction. Instead of feeling sorry for themselves and putting themselves out there as victims for fun and profit, they have taken full advantage of the opportunities and blessings available to them in their current home countries.

I think American racists should take lessons.

 

[Asclepias]

A group I am a member of recently toured the Holocaust and Intolerance Museum here in Albuquerque. Before the tour, we were treated to an excellent background lecture by a Jewish gentlemen, retired scientist and engineer, who now volunteers as a docent at the museum. He recounts that he was one of the lucky ones with a lot of family living in the USA at the time of WWII, so he has been blessed with extended family.

But he pointed to those, some now living here, who are the only living member of their families as all others were murdered at Auschwitz, Dachau, Belzec, and others. At least they have never been able to locate a member of their families since WWII ended. I can't imagine what that would be like, how painful, how lonely that would feel. And yes, Germany did make some restitution to the immediate victims of the Holocaust who had lost everything, but the descendants of that horror do not demand restitution/reparations.

Nor have the descendants of the Holocaust, while never forgetting that horror, considered themselves personally handicapped or disadvantaged. Most have gone on to accomplish great things and achieve personal success and satisfaction. Instead of feeling sorry for themselves and putting themselves out there as victims for fun and profit, they have taken full advantage of the opportunities and blessings available to them in their current home countries.

I think American racists should take lessons.

Great story but you neglected to provide 3 extremely important factors in the success of Jewish people after the Holocaust.

1. The Holocaust did not last for multiple generations so they never lost their religion, history, and culture. They never handed down to their descendents negative behaviors aimed more at survival than achievement.

2. The European white countries annexed land from another culture and provided the nurturing, money, and protection for it until it could operate on its own.

3. A simple name change is all that is required for a Jewish person to blend into the white power structure. Many Jewish people did just that to avoid discrimination.

You have to do better than that when you provide comparisons. The problem with your method is there is no comparison to the protracted abuse, oppression, and destruction Black people went through here in the US. The closests is the NA's

 

[CMike]

A group I am a member of recently toured the Holocaust and Intolerance Museum here in Albuquerque. Before the tour, we were treated to an excellent background lecture by a Jewish gentlemen, retired scientist and engineer, who now volunteers as a docent at the museum. He recounts that he was one of the lucky ones with a lot of family living in the USA at the time of WWII, so he has been blessed with extended family.

But he pointed to those, some now living here, who are the only living member of their families as all others were murdered at Auschwitz, Dachau, Belzec, and others. At least they have never been able to locate a member of their families since WWII ended. I can't imagine what that would be like, how painful, how lonely that would feel. And yes, Germany did make some restitution to the immediate victims of the Holocaust who had lost everything, but the descendants of that horror do not demand restitution/reparations.

Nor have the descendants of the Holocaust, while never forgetting that horror, considered themselves personally handicapped or disadvantaged. Most have gone on to accomplish great things and achieve personal success and satisfaction. Instead of feeling sorry for themselves and putting themselves out there as victims for fun and profit, they have taken full advantage of the opportunities and blessings available to them in their current home countries.

I think American racists should take lessons.

 

[CMike]

A group I am a member of recently toured the Holocaust and Intolerance Museum here in Albuquerque. Before the tour, we were treated to an excellent background lecture by a Jewish gentlemen, retired scientist and engineer, who now volunteers as a docent at the museum. He recounts that he was one of the lucky ones with a lot of family living in the USA at the time of WWII, so he has been blessed with extended family.

But he pointed to those, some now living here, who are the only living member of their families as all others were murdered at Auschwitz, Dachau, Belzec, and others. At least they have never been able to locate a member of their families since WWII ended. I can't imagine what that would be like, how painful, how lonely that would feel. And yes, Germany did make some restitution to the immediate victims of the Holocaust who had lost everything, but the descendants of that horror do not demand restitution/reparations.

Nor have the descendants of the Holocaust, while never forgetting that horror, considered themselves personally handicapped or disadvantaged. Most have gone on to accomplish great things and achieve personal success and satisfaction. Instead of feeling sorry for themselves and putting themselves out there as victims for fun and profit, they have taken full advantage of the opportunities and blessings available to them in their current home countries.

I think American racists should take lessons.

Great story but you neglected to provide 3 extremely important factors in the success of Jewish people after the Holocaust.

1. The Holocaust did not last for multiple generations so they never lost their religion, history, and culture. They never handed down to their descendents negative behaviors aimed more at survival than achievement.

The holocaust may not have been for multiple generations, but persecution and mass murdering of jews occurred for thousands of years in Europe and Russia.

There were progroms in Russia and Europe were thousands of jews were killed at a time.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0016_0_15895.html

The Czars and the Jews

The Black Death in Europe from 1347 - 1350 AD resulted in the massacre of large numbers of Jews

Prosecution of the Jews: Black death pogroms 1348-1350

2. The European white countries annexed land from another culture and provided the nurturing, money, and protection for it until it could operate on its own.

Once again you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

a) European white countries didn't annex land. Israel was part of the british empire and before that part of the Otttoman Empire. Israel was the ancesterol home of the jews for thousands of years, from the time of Abraham.

b) Europen countries hardly supported it. The British Empire was on the side of the arabs and overtly supported the arabs over the jews in Israel.

They stopped completely jewish immigration (at least legally), blockaded ships of jews, who just survivied the Holocaust from entering Israel, and in some cases caused those ships to sink murdering everyone on board.

Israel's money came from fellow jews, mainly from the US.

3. A simple name change is all that is required for a Jewish person to blend into the white power structure. Many Jewish people did just that to avoid discrimination.

Hardly. Jews had their culture and traditions and suffered discrimination in the US as well.


Religious Discrimination - Religion in the United States - People - USA - North America: part america, cornerstone american, government iraq, white america, nativist movement

Yes despite all this you don't hear jews demand special treatment.

 

[protectionist]

A group I am a member of recently toured the Holocaust and Intolerance Museum here in Albuquerque. Before the tour, we were treated to an excellent background lecture by a Jewish gentlemen, retired scientist and engineer, who now volunteers as a docent at the museum. He recounts that he was one of the lucky ones with a lot of family living in the USA at the time of WWII, so he has been blessed with extended family.

But he pointed to those, some now living here, who are the only living member of their families as all others were murdered at Auschwitz, Dachau, Belzec, and others. At least they have never been able to locate a member of their families since WWII ended. I can't imagine what that would be like, how painful, how lonely that would feel. And yes, Germany did make some restitution to the immediate victims of the Holocaust who had lost everything, but the descendants of that horror do not demand restitution/reparations.

Nor have the descendants of the Holocaust, while never forgetting that horror, considered themselves personally handicapped or disadvantaged. Most have gone on to accomplish great things and achieve personal success and satisfaction. Instead of feeling sorry for themselves and putting themselves out there as victims for fun and profit, they have taken full advantage of the opportunities and blessings available to them in their current home countries.

I think American racists should take lessons.

Great story but you neglected to provide 3 extremely important factors in the success of Jewish people after the Holocaust.

1. The Holocaust did not last for multiple generations so they never lost their religion, history, and culture. They never handed down to their descendents negative behaviors aimed more at survival than achievement.

2. The European white countries annexed land from another culture and provided the nurturing, money, and protection for it until it could operate on its own.

3. A simple name change is all that is required for a Jewish person to blend into the white power structure. Many Jewish people did just that to avoid discrimination.

You have to do better than that when you provide comparisons. The problem with your method is there is no comparison to the protracted abuse, oppression, and destruction Black people went through here in the US. The closests is the NA's

But THAT "protracted abuse, oppression, and destruction isn't yours. All you do is pretend that you have some claim to the injustices THEY suffered, so you can grab-loot America's money, to keep you from having to go out and work for a legitimate paycheck. Your are a pure symptom of the grab-loot culture that many American blacks display, all the while lying to themselves and each other that white America owes them something.

The only ones owed are the millions of white victims of 50 years of racist affirmative action discrimination against whites, and YOU are the debtor of that.

 

[Foxfyre]

A group I am a member of recently toured the Holocaust and Intolerance Museum here in Albuquerque. Before the tour, we were treated to an excellent background lecture by a Jewish gentlemen, retired scientist and engineer, who now volunteers as a docent at the museum. He recounts that he was one of the lucky ones with a lot of family living in the USA at the time of WWII, so he has been blessed with extended family.

But he pointed to those, some now living here, who are the only living member of their families as all others were murdered at Auschwitz, Dachau, Belzec, and others. At least they have never been able to locate a member of their families since WWII ended. I can't imagine what that would be like, how painful, how lonely that would feel. And yes, Germany did make some restitution to the immediate victims of the Holocaust who had lost everything, but the descendants of that horror do not demand restitution/reparations.

Nor have the descendants of the Holocaust, while never forgetting that horror, considered themselves personally handicapped or disadvantaged. Most have gone on to accomplish great things and achieve personal success and satisfaction. Instead of feeling sorry for themselves and putting themselves out there as victims for fun and profit, they have taken full advantage of the opportunities and blessings available to them in their current home countries.

I think American racists should take lessons.

Great story but you neglected to provide 3 extremely important factors in the success of Jewish people after the Holocaust.

1. The Holocaust did not last for multiple generations so they never lost their religion, history, and culture. They never handed down to their descendents negative behaviors aimed more at survival than achievement.

2. The European white countries annexed land from another culture and provided the nurturing, money, and protection for it until it could operate on its own.

3. A simple name change is all that is required for a Jewish person to blend into the white power structure. Many Jewish people did just that to avoid discrimination.

You have to do better than that when you provide comparisons. The problem with your method is there is no comparison to the protracted abuse, oppression, and destruction Black people went through here in the US. The closests is the NA's

The Jews have certainly been persecuted for multiple generations, in many places forbidden to own real property for multiple generations, shunned, harrassed, subject to viscious pograms. And many/most victims of the Holocaust not only lost everything they had ever owned and were driven out of the only homes they had ever known, but some, as I recounted, lost their entire families, villages, and cultures. The only reason they did not lose their sense of self and their religion is that they made sure it was passed down from generation to generation.

And many of them had that happen to them or their parents, grandparents etc. far more recently than any of your ancesters. I think it is an excellent comparison of the difference between those who avail themselves of whatever choices, opportunities, and and blessings made available to them and those who presume a victimization that is mostly for profit amd further use it to justify that they haven't availed themselves of the choices, opportunities, and blessings made available to them.

And shame on those who do that and kudos to those who do not.

 

[JohnL.Burke]

To be fair, the jews did not forgo the same modern horrors as the black community in the sense that the jewish community was not targeted for a liberal welfare state assuring generations of its victims to stagnate and die in the ghettos, broken schools and joblessness that liberalism always creates.

 

[CMike]

To be fair, the jews did not forgo the same modern horrors as the black community in the sense that the jewish community was not targeted for a liberal welfare state assuring generations of its victims to stagnate and die in the ghettos, broken schools and joblessness that liberalism always creates.

That's true. They were just mass murdered, their property taken away from them, they weren't allowed to have a job, and were pillaged.

Oh yeah...and 6 million were mass murdered in extrementiation camps.

Other than that they have suffered nothing compared to the blacks in the US.

 

[JohnL.Burke]

To be fair, the jews did not forgo the same modern horrors as the black community in the sense that the jewish community was not targeted for a liberal welfare state assuring generations of its victims to stagnate and die in the ghettos, broken schools and joblessness that liberalism always creates.

That's true. They were just mass murdered, their property taken away from them, they weren't allowed to have a job, and were pillaged.

Oh yeah...and 6 million were mass murdered in extrementiation camps.

Other than that they have suffered nothing compared to the blacks in the US.

Of course Jews have suffered more than blacks. That's not even debatable. My point is that modern liberalism kept the blacks from overcoming societal sins by making it harder for them to move on and prosper.

 

[Asclepias]

A group I am a member of recently toured the Holocaust and Intolerance Museum here in Albuquerque. Before the tour, we were treated to an excellent background lecture by a Jewish gentlemen, retired scientist and engineer, who now volunteers as a docent at the museum. He recounts that he was one of the lucky ones with a lot of family living in the USA at the time of WWII, so he has been blessed with extended family.

But he pointed to those, some now living here, who are the only living member of their families as all others were murdered at Auschwitz, Dachau, Belzec, and others. At least they have never been able to locate a member of their families since WWII ended. I can't imagine what that would be like, how painful, how lonely that would feel. And yes, Germany did make some restitution to the immediate victims of the Holocaust who had lost everything, but the descendants of that horror do not demand restitution/reparations.

Nor have the descendants of the Holocaust, while never forgetting that horror, considered themselves personally handicapped or disadvantaged. Most have gone on to accomplish great things and achieve personal success and satisfaction. Instead of feeling sorry for themselves and putting themselves out there as victims for fun and profit, they have taken full advantage of the opportunities and blessings available to them in their current home countries.

I think American racists should take lessons.

The holocaust may not have been for multiple generations, but persecution and mass murdering of jews occurred for thousands of years in Europe and Russia.

There were progroms in Russia and Europe were thousands of jews were killed at a time.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0016_0_15895.html

The Czars and the Jews

The Black Death in Europe from 1347 - 1350 AD resulted in the massacre of large numbers of Jews

Prosecution of the Jews: Black death pogroms 1348-1350




Once again you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

a) European white countries didn't annex land. Israel was part of the british empire and before that part of the Otttoman Empire. Israel was the ancesterol home of the jews for thousands of years, from the time of Abraham.

b) Europen countries hardly supported it. The British Empire was on the side of the arabs and overtly supported the arabs over the jews in Israel.

They stopped completely jewish immigration (at least legally), blockaded ships of jews, who just survivied the Holocaust from entering Israel, and in some cases caused those ships to sink murdering everyone on board.

Israel's money came from fellow jews, mainly from the US.

3. A simple name change is all that is required for a Jewish person to blend into the white power structure. Many Jewish people did just that to avoid discrimination.

Hardly. Jews had their culture and traditions and suffered discrimination in the US as well.


Religious Discrimination - Religion in the United States - People - USA - North America: part america, cornerstone american, government iraq, white america, nativist movement

Yes despite all this you don't hear jews demand special treatment.

You do realize that in Russia it was Jews murdering Jews right? Ever heard of a guy named Genrikh Yagoda? I think you miss the import of having your history, religion, and culture denied you for multiple generations. You can die by the millions but if you have those 3 things you will be all right. BTW since we are now expanding outside of the US in this instance we can count the millions murdered in Africa due to European invasions. Or we can just look at the Black experience in the US vs the Jewish experience in the US.

Israel was part of the British empire? How the hell do you think it became part of the British empire? They took it. Ever heard of the Balfour Declaration?

His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

We see how that worked out. Make no mistake the land was given to the Jewish people and supported by US and European interest.

Your answer regarding the name change does nothing to dispute what I said. Are you denying that Jews frequently changed their names to avoid discrimination and in doing so had opportunities open to them that would not have appeared had it been known they were Jewish?

Yes the Jewish people did demand reparations and received them. They will also not let you ever forget about the holocaust just like Black people will not let you forget about slavery. Same thing except the Jewish people got compensation for their Maafa.

 

[protectionist]

Yes the Jewish people did demand reparations and received them. They will also not let you ever forget about the holocaust just like Black people will not let you forget about slavery. Same thing except the Jewish people got compensation for their Maafa.

As you've been told, the Jews who got reparations were the ones who suffered from the holocaust. YOU didn't suffer from slavery. The only ones who have suffered racial injustice over the last 50 years in America, are whites, from affirmative action.

 

[Friends]

As a result of the presence of blacks in the United States, racist white people like you are scared as hell.

Anyone with sense is afraid of young black men. This is what Jesse Jackson wrote about them:

"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.... After all we have been through. Just to think we can't walk down our own streets, how humiliating."

Remarks at a meeting of Operation PUSH in Chicago (27 November 1993). Quoted in "Crime: New Frontier - Jesse Jackson Calls It Top Civil-Rights Issue" by Mary A. Johnson, 29 November 1993, Chicago Sun-Times (ellipsis in original). Partially quoted in US News & World Report (10 March 1996)

 

[Friends]

Yes the Jewish people did demand reparations and received them. They will also not let you ever forget about the holocaust just like Black people will not let you forget about slavery. Same thing except the Jewish people got compensation for their Maafa.

As you've been told, the Jews who got reparations were the ones who suffered from the holocaust. YOU didn't suffer from slavery. The only ones who have suffered racial injustice over the last 50 years in America, are whites, from affirmative action.

In addition to affirmative action, whites have suffered greatly from black crime.

Blacks in the United States are better off because their ancestors were brought over as slaves. Whites in the United States are worse off because of the same reason.

The United States would be a far better country if blacks had not been brought here as slaves, and if they had not been allowed to move here.

 

[Asclepias]

As a result of the presence of blacks in the United States, racist white people like you are scared as hell.

Anyone with sense is afraid of young black men. This is what Jesse Jackson wrote about them:

"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.... After all we have been through. Just to think we can't walk down our own streets, how humiliating."

Remarks at a meeting of Operation PUSH in Chicago (27 November 1993). Quoted in "Crime: New Frontier - Jesse Jackson Calls It Top Civil-Rights Issue" by Mary A. Johnson, 29 November 1993, Chicago Sun-Times (ellipsis in original). Partially quoted in US News & World Report (10 March 1996)

So you and Jessie Jackson are both sissies? I'm not afraid of young Black men. They would have more to do if they were able to have reparations.

 

[Friends]

Of course Jews have suffered more than blacks. That's not even debatable. My point is that modern liberalism kept the blacks from overcoming societal sins by making it harder for them to move on and prosper.

White liberals are not responsible for black poverty. Black genes are responsible for black poverty.

 

[tinydancer]

Pay me yo bastards. I'm Irish. Pay me you mother fuckers.I didnt post this.

Ah crap its the aussie crew again. I am really tired of this.

 

[tinydancer]

Tell me you know you made me a slave before you made the black man a slave. Tell me you know the truth.

 

[Asclepias]

I know I frighten you but no. I just know you are a sissy and to you I am more frightening than a young Black man. Thats why you guys only go after the young babies. You couldnt possible deal with a full adult male. Thats also why you are afraid of the very word reparations.