"Smaller government" advocates

[dblack]

The PATRIOT ACT.

can the liberal say how the patriot act decrease our individual liberty??

Yes.

but the stupid liberal is afraid to try. How will you learn if you are afraid to try? What does your fear teach you?

You are a thoroughgoing idiot, Ed. A moron. Worthless and not worth the effort.

translation: as a typical stupid liberal I'm afraid to explain for fear of looking stupid as always so I'll resort to personal attack and hope no one sees that I'm trying to change the subject.

it's not really personal. I don't know you at all as a person. But your posts are uniformly blindly partisan and stupid. You really come off as a total idiot. Even when you're right, you're wrong - in the sense that you really don't seem to think about anything, you just cram it into your Republican viewpoint machine and go from there. You're worse than stupid - you're deliberately ignorant.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The PATRIOT ACT.

can the liberal say how the patriot act decrease our individual liberty??

Yes.

Question: how has the Patriot Act ever effect you? How about anybody in your family? Your friends? Your coworkers or neighbors?

Who was affected by the Patriot Act that you know of?

 

[paulitician]

the Patriot Act allowed government to listen in on your phone call to the pizza place, but that is wrong.

as I recall it allowed them to create a data base of billions of connected telephone numbers so that if you were ever implicated as a terrorist the FBI could learn your associates and then listen in on your calls after securing permission from a FISA court. This is 1000% minor compared to what Census Bureaus, IRS, credit card companies, health insurance companies, etc know.

Thanks a lot 'Small Government' Republicans. You expanded the size and scope of Government beyond anyone's worst expectations. Homeland Security, Patriot Act, NDAA, and massive NSA spying. Thanks again guys.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

But your posts are uniformly blindly partisan and stupid.

of course if true you would not be so afraid to present your most substantive example. What does your fear teach you about the character and IQ of a liberal?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

the Patriot Act allowed government to listen in on your phone call to the pizza place, but that is wrong.

As I recall The patriot Act allowed the govt to create a data base of billions of connected telephone numbers so that if you were ever implicated as a terrorist the FBI could then learn your associates and then listen in on your calls after securing permission from a FISA court. This is 1000% minor compared to what Census Bureau, IRS, credit card companies, health insurance companies, schools, etc know about you.

Actually all they did was listen in on phone calls of interest, but never knew who they were listening to.

They had computers comb through thousands of messages per minute. It worked like a search engine. It would only bring up transmissions that had key words in it; words terrorist organizations would use. Nobody has ever been prosecuted using the Patriot Act as far as I know of.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Thanks a lot 'Small Government' Republicans. You expanded the size and scope of Government beyond anyone's worst expectations..

how??????????????????????? and how could they be small govt Republicans if they did that????????

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

the Patriot Act allowed government to listen in on your phone call to the pizza place, but that is wrong.

as I recall it allowed them to create a data base of billions of connected telephone numbers so that if you were ever implicated as a terrorist the FBI could learn your associates and then listen in on your calls after securing permission from a FISA court. This is 1000% minor compared to what Census Bureaus, IRS, credit card companies, health insurance companies, etc know.

Thanks a lot 'Small Government' Republicans. You expanded the size and scope of Government beyond anyone's worst expectations. Homeland Security, Patriot Act, NDAA, and massive NSA spying. Thanks again guys.

What were the Republicans supposed to do? After 911, the first complaint by the left was how our Republican government left us unprotected; how they used OUR cell phones; how they used OUR e-mail for communications; how some of these jokers were known to be in terrorist organizations.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[leftwinger]

Very few are really for 'Smaller Government.'

It seems they could eliminate many departments (back to states), Consolidate others, Cut Govt pay/pensions/healthcare. shrink Pentagon bureaucracy,,,,,,,on and on. SMALLER less costly yes. Make them live like we have to. They work for us. Now it seems they are at war against us?

Obama pushed for Travoyn, Furgeson, OWS , Baltimore....he should not fan those flames.

 

[paulitician]

Thanks a lot 'Small Government' Republicans. You expanded the size and scope of Government beyond anyone's worst expectations..

how??????????????????????? and how could they be small govt Republicans if they did that????????

Homeland Security, Patriot Act, NDAA, and the massive expansion of NSA domestic spying operations. Your 'Conservative' boy George W. Bush expanded the size and scope of Government beyond anyone's worst expectations. You guys are for anything but 'Smaller Government.'

 

[paulitician]

the Patriot Act allowed government to listen in on your phone call to the pizza place, but that is wrong.

as I recall it allowed them to create a data base of billions of connected telephone numbers so that if you were ever implicated as a terrorist the FBI could learn your associates and then listen in on your calls after securing permission from a FISA court. This is 1000% minor compared to what Census Bureaus, IRS, credit card companies, health insurance companies, etc know.

Thanks a lot 'Small Government' Republicans. You expanded the size and scope of Government beyond anyone's worst expectations. Homeland Security, Patriot Act, NDAA, and massive NSA spying. Thanks again guys.

What were the Republicans supposed to do? After 911, the first complaint by the left was how our Republican government left us unprotected; how they used OUR cell phones; how they used OUR e-mail for communications; how some of these jokers were known to be in terrorist organizations.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

You guys have conributed heavily to the rapid massive expansion of the size of our Government. You're just as bad, if not worse than Communists/Progressives.

 

[paulitician]

Very few are really for 'Smaller Government.'

It seems they could eliminate many departments (back to states), Consolidate others, Cut Govt pay/pensions/healthcare. shrink Pentagon bureaucracy,,,,,,,on and on. SMALLER less costly yes. Make them live like we have to. They work for us. Now it seems they are at war against us?

Obama pushed for Travoyn, Furgeson, OWS , Baltimore....he should not fan those flames.

Obama's a rabid Communist/Progressive. So expanding the size and scope of Government is predictable with him. I'm much more angry with the 'Small Government Republicans' who've actually done more expanding than him. George W. Bush was a heinous fraud. He was no 'Small Government Conservative.' He was the exact opposite.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't get people who say they want smaller government.

Mainly because I don't believe they want smaller government.

You are crazy.

I want much smaller government.

I want government to do the few necessary things like defense, police, protecting the border, courts etc.

I do not want it to provide any entitlements.

I do not want it to provide any welfare and that includes foreign welfare.

I do not want it to provide any subsidies to anybody.

I do not want it to provide bailouts to anybody.

I want the filthy ass government to stay out of the business of taking money from one person and giving it to another.

I do not want the government to create protected classes like queers and Negroes.

I want the government to tax the smalest amount possible to do the minimal necessary things.

I do not want the government ever to borrow money unless it absolutely necessary for national defense in a time of war.

I want it to stay out of the business of regulating my life and curtailing my liberties.

Crazy? Why? Because I see people being hypocritical, it makes ME crazy?

You want the govt to do the necessary things like defense? Is defense things like invading Iraq? That wasn't defense, that was attack. Yet many who support smaller govt supported the invasion of Iraq.

Do you want it to provide entitlements to, say, Amazon? Texas gives Amazon $277 million a year. It hands out $19 billion a year to companies. You like them apples?

No welfare? So if someone loses their job, they're fucked?

So you'd let the entire economy go like the Great Depression then?

Protected classes? You mean, you don't want human rights? But then you talk about curtailing liberties, but you've just said you don't like it when they protect the liberties of gay people etc.

Hmm.

 

[Flash]

[


Crazy? Why? Because I see people being hypocritical, it makes ME crazy?

You want the govt to do the necessary things like defense? Is defense things like invading Iraq? That wasn't defense, that was attack. Yet many who support smaller govt supported the invasion of Iraq.

Do you want it to provide entitlements to, say, Amazon? Texas gives Amazon $277 million a year. It hands out $19 billion a year to companies. You like them apples?

No welfare? So if someone loses their job, they're fucked?

So you'd let the entire economy go like the Great Depression then?

Protected classes? You mean, you don't want human rights? But then you talk about curtailing liberties, but you've just said you don't like it when they protect the liberties of gay people etc.

Hmm.

You missed the part where I said no welfare for foreign countries and that includes interventionism and fighting other people's wars for them.

Our military should be used to defend the US like guarding the friggin Mexican border and not guarding a foreign border 6K miles away. Remember that Obama has been at war every day of his administration and that he fought the war in Iraq for three years and called it a success and now he is back bombing and sending in ground troops so you Libtrads that elected Obama own a piece of that shit pie. Even Hillary Clinton voted for the invasion and most of you Moon Bats will vote for her for President next year so don't give me any of theat hippy peacenik bullshit.

No welfare means no welfare and that includes unemployment. You need to take personal responsibility for your own welfare and not expect other people to pay your bills for you. Using the government to get money that you did not earn is thievery and it is wrong.

I don't want the government giving anybody any money and that includes Amazon or Solyndra or a Ferguson welfare queen or an Idaho potato farmer.

Libtards are very selective about "human rights" when most of them justify killing children on demand for the sake of convenience. Criminal laws are fine because it is equal to all but the fucking government creating protected classes is wrong no matter how you look at it.

If the government would stay away from interfering with business it would do just fine. It is the government that creates recessions and depressions through interference.

The government is the problem. We have a bloated out of control debt ridden oppressive government and that is why poverty is increasing, family income decreasing, welfare rolls increasing and the debt is astronomical.

If we don't get back to restoring fiscal responsibility and do away with this corrupt bloated welfare state we can expect for poverty to increase even more than it already has.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

the Patriot Act allowed government to listen in on your phone call to the pizza place, but that is wrong.

as I recall it allowed them to create a data base of billions of connected telephone numbers so that if you were ever implicated as a terrorist the FBI could learn your associates and then listen in on your calls after securing permission from a FISA court. This is 1000% minor compared to what Census Bureaus, IRS, credit card companies, health insurance companies, etc know.

Thanks a lot 'Small Government' Republicans. You expanded the size and scope of Government beyond anyone's worst expectations. Homeland Security, Patriot Act, NDAA, and massive NSA spying. Thanks again guys.

What were the Republicans supposed to do? After 911, the first complaint by the left was how our Republican government left us unprotected; how they used OUR cell phones; how they used OUR e-mail for communications; how some of these jokers were known to be in terrorist organizations.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

You guys have conributed heavily to the rapid massive expansion of the size of our Government. You're just as bad, if not worse than Communists/Progressives.

So we have terrorists coming over our border, getting on airplanes, killing thousands of Americans, and your libertarian position is to do nothing? Maybe that's why we'll never see a Libertarian President in our lifetime.

There is a piece I would like you to read, it's called the US Constitution. The founders charged our leaders with the protection of our country. It's their duty to protect us from enemies within or outside of our borders.

Maybe our founders were big government people too.......at least by your standards.

 

[Indeependent]

the Patriot Act allowed government to listen in on your phone call to the pizza place, but that is wrong.

as I recall it allowed them to create a data base of billions of connected telephone numbers so that if you were ever implicated as a terrorist the FBI could learn your associates and then listen in on your calls after securing permission from a FISA court. This is 1000% minor compared to what Census Bureaus, IRS, credit card companies, health insurance companies, etc know.

Thanks a lot 'Small Government' Republicans. You expanded the size and scope of Government beyond anyone's worst expectations. Homeland Security, Patriot Act, NDAA, and massive NSA spying. Thanks again guys.

What were the Republicans supposed to do? After 911, the first complaint by the left was how our Republican government left us unprotected; how they used OUR cell phones; how they used OUR e-mail for communications; how some of these jokers were known to be in terrorist organizations.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

You guys have conributed heavily to the rapid massive expansion of the size of our Government. You're just as bad, if not worse than Communists/Progressives.

So we have terrorists coming over our border, getting on airplanes, killing thousands of Americans, and your libertarian position is to do nothing? Maybe that's why we'll never see a Libertarian President in our lifetime.

There is a piece I would like you to read, it's called the US Constitution. The founders charged our leaders with the protection of our country. It's their duty to protect us from enemies within or outside of our borders.

Maybe our founders were big government people too.......at least by your standards.

Libertarians CAN be nuts.

 

[frigidweirdo]

[


Crazy? Why? Because I see people being hypocritical, it makes ME crazy?

You want the govt to do the necessary things like defense? Is defense things like invading Iraq? That wasn't defense, that was attack. Yet many who support smaller govt supported the invasion of Iraq.

Do you want it to provide entitlements to, say, Amazon? Texas gives Amazon $277 million a year. It hands out $19 billion a year to companies. You like them apples?

No welfare? So if someone loses their job, they're fucked?

So you'd let the entire economy go like the Great Depression then?

Protected classes? You mean, you don't want human rights? But then you talk about curtailing liberties, but you've just said you don't like it when they protect the liberties of gay people etc.

Hmm.

You missed the part where I said no welfare for foreign countries and that includes interventionism and fighting other people's wars for them.

Our military should be used to defend the US like guarding the friggin Mexican border and not guarding a foreign border 6K miles away. Remember that Obama has been at war every day of his administration and that he fought the war in Iraq for three years and called it a success and now he is back bombing and sending in ground troops so you Libtrads that elected Obama own a piece of that shit pie. Even Hillary Clinton voted for the invasion and most of you Moon Bats will vote for her for President next year so don't give me any of theat hippy peacenik bullshit.

No welfare means no welfare and that includes unemployment. You need to take personal responsibility for your own welfare and not expect other people to pay your bills for you. Using the government to get money that you did not earn is thievery and it is wrong.

I don't want the government giving anybody any money and that includes Amazon or Solyndra or a Ferguson welfare queen or an Idaho potato farmer.

Libtards are very selective about "human rights" when most of them justify killing children on demand for the sake of convenience. Criminal laws are fine because it is equal to all but the fucking government creating protected classes is wrong no matter how you look at it.

If the government would stay away from interfering with business it would do just fine. It is the government that creates recessions and depressions through interference.

The government is the problem. We have a bloated out of control debt ridden oppressive government and that is why poverty is increasing, family income decreasing, welfare rolls increasing and the debt is astronomical.

If we don't get back to restoring fiscal responsibility and do away with this corrupt bloated welfare state we can expect for poverty to increase even more than it already has.

I missed bits out simply because I replying to every little detail is often just not worth it. I posted what I deemed the most important parts.

Welfare for other countries includes invading Iraq? Hmmm... okay. I'd suggest when you write things that you be a little less vague about things, but I'm not going to get pedantic on this.

Did you support the Iraq War in 2003? Did you support troops in Afghanistan?

"You Libtards"??? Do you know me? I don't support the Democrats.

The Democrats and the Republicans are the problem. Many Democrats voted for the Iraq war because they're unprincipled politicians, they want to be popular, so they vote the way they see public opinion, public opinion that was made by the media doing the bidding of the govt who is doing the bidding of big money, which controls the media anyway.

However Obama's been at war because war was made by Bush. Are you defending Bush here? Are you defending the Republicans and their political machine which is owned by big money?

Your no welfare opinion is just plain wrong. It is a necessity of the modern system. People get laid off work, lose their job, sometimes for no fault of their own. Why should they be punished when the people who are playing the game aren't losing out, except for their own incompetency?

Welfare can be beneficial, and it can be bad. This is the problem, you've seen a system which doesn't really work well. However it benefits a lot of people who are out of work for a few months.

They don't lose their homes (to rich banks who would benefit, and to property speculators and so on who would benefit), they don't lose their ability to find another job (because they have no home), it allows continuity within society, keeps things together.

I'm not "most of" Liberals, I'm not answering for them. Just as the OP was about MOST people who support smaller govt being hypocritical. I didn't say ALL people who support smaller govt want bigger govt in certain areas.

Govt stayed away from interfering in business in the 1920s, how'd that work out?
The problem is a certain amount of regulation is needed to stop monopolies and bad practices which would happen far more without govt restrictions.

The govt is a problem, I agree. Mainly because people vote in politicians who are doing the bidding of big business, rather than working for the people who elected them.
The people are the problem too, they don't THINK.

 

[Flopper]

Good point

Wealth does not go anywhere....it is distributed

Guess who gets to decide how it is distributed? The wealthy

Is this a great country or what?

Wrong, moron, wealth is produced and earned by those who produce it. Your welfare check, on the other hand, was stolen from the people who earned the money.

Wealth is produced by the workers
It is distributed by the Capitalists

No, wealth is not produced by the workers. Work is produced by the workers. Wealth is produced by taking a manufactured product (or service) and selling it at a profit. Workers don't do that, companies and CEO's do that.

Labor and management together produce wealth. Neither can be successful without the other. Without labor, there is no product. Without management there is no one to market the product.

The difference of course is that there are plenty of workers and a much smaller group of employers. The employee needs the employer more than the other way around.

Well that's like saying the chickens are more important than eggs. An employer has no product without the labor to create it and labor can produce nothing without management overseeing the business and marketing the product.

 

[Flopper]

Actually, Republican laws like right to work ( right to get paid less) erode the power of workers to negotiate. Throw in attacks on collective bargaining and you have workers right where the wealthy need them....hungry and desperate

'Right to work' is the 'right' to get paid less, the 'right' to be denied full-time employment, the 'right' to be deny benefits, and the 'right' to lose your job for any reason through no fault of your own.

With so many 'rights' it's impossible for many Americans to find a full-time job or make a living wage.

That is the way the one percent want it. Keep the workers unstable, in fear for their jobs. Fire those who dare to stand up for themselves.

of course the beauty of capitalism is that you have to provide the best possible jobs and products just to survive. A liberal will lack the IQ to understand even the basics that a child can understand. Liberals make no more sense that Nazi fascists monarchs and despots. They are merely the latest stupid, violent people in human history

Unrestrained capitalism leads to a breakdown of the working class

Unrestrained capitalism led to the wealthiest society the world has ever seen.

I doubt unrestrained capitalism has every existed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wrong, moron, wealth is produced and earned by those who produce it. Your welfare check, on the other hand, was stolen from the people who earned the money.

Wealth is produced by the workers
It is distributed by the Capitalists

No, wealth is not produced by the workers. Work is produced by the workers. Wealth is produced by taking a manufactured product (or service) and selling it at a profit. Workers don't do that, companies and CEO's do that.

Labor and management together produce wealth. Neither can be successful without the other. Without labor, there is no product. Without management there is no one to market the product.

The difference of course is that there are plenty of workers and a much smaller group of employers. The employee needs the employer more than the other way around.

Well that's like saying the chickens are more important than eggs. An employer has no product without the labor to create it and labor can produce nothing without management overseeing the business and marketing the product.

No because what you are hinting at is that both entities play an equal part. There is no truth to that.

If a person digs a hole for no reason whatsoever, he doesn't produce anything. If an employer hires a person to dig a hole, both employer and employee benefit from the profit made by the digger digging that hole.

There is no chicken and egg here. The employer comes first and always has. It's the employee that comes later on to materialize the ideas of the employer. Without an employer, there would be no employee(s).

Ideas are what creates profit--not the actual work. Work produces the product or service. Creating a market and selling that product or service for a profit is what creates wealth. Workers are merely part of the food chain, not the top of the food chain.

 

[kaz]

The product does not exist without workers to produce it. Selling a finished product is a very small value added

The problem today is that workers used to get a larger piece of the Poe of the wealth they create. Now, the pie is getting bigger but the workers share gets smaller

Whose role is it to change that?

Good question
It used to be strong unions who fought for the workers. But with Republicans steadily degrading the influence of unions, it has become every man for himself......just like the one percent want

So, it seems like only the government has the power to stand up for workers

The only thing that has been reduced is the artificial power given by government to workers. Workers are as free or more than ever to unite and negotiate on actual market power

Actually, Republican laws like right to work ( right to get paid less) erode the power of workers to negotiate. Throw in attacks on collective bargaining and you have workers right where the wealthy need them....hungry and desperate

'Right to work' is the 'right' to get paid less, the 'right' to be denied full-time employment, the 'right' to be deny benefits, and the 'right' to lose your job for any reason through no fault of your own.

With so many 'rights' it's impossible for many Americans to find a full-time job or make a living wage.

Stop being such a pussy and work out your own deal with your own boss. Good workers are hard to find and retain, we treat them well, we have to.

It's the ones who have a bad attitude and suck like you that don't know that. work on your attitude to start, that's going to do a hell of a lot more for your career than Obama will