So here's what I think happened between Kavanaugh & Ford

[boedicca]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

She said he was trying to get her clothes off. She took a polygraph test and passed. He refused. Not SCOTUS material.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That polygraph was absolutely worthless, and you know it.

She was asked two questions which she embellished into taking hours and covering her whole life.

Snowflake Drama Queen.

 

[bripat9643]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I agree with the fundamental premise that Kavvy's behavior was partially inspired by juvenile recklessness. But your hypothesis is almost entirely a series of alleged events. There is no substantive link between the particulars that Ford has alleged and the particulars you are suggesting as an alternative, and no basis to invent these alternate allegations.

I see no reason to discount the fundamental story that Ford has told. I don't believe she is lying when she says she was pushed into the room by Judge, nor when she says that Kavvy covered her mouth to suppress her screams. Believing your suggestions requires that we either believe Ford is lying, or that her mind invented those things over time. Neither one is a justifiable hypothesis. And, incidentally, ends up essentially being the same tired "She's crazy, she's confused" excuses that have historically been used to marginalize women when they bring sexual assaults to light.

There's a fine line here, and I'm just trying to drill down a bit on it. Maybe a good term would be "perceived intent". I'm not trying to discount her story as much as I am theorizing a situation in which she reasonably perceived herself to be in grave danger when she in fact was not.

I can sure as hell picture a situation in which a drunk guy forces himself on a woman without actually intending to rape her. For him it's, maybe, aggressive, drunk, manly playfulness. For her, it's a fuckin' attack.

Such theorizing is dangerous on a highly partisan message board, granted, but what the hell.

And then, I think it's fair to question whether something that happened that long ago applies today. If my little story is close to being right, then I'd think he was being dishonest in his testimony, and that's that.
.

I'd have to largely agree with that. Along similar lines, I can't help but remember that Ford herself said that her fear was that Kavvy would accidentally kill her. It seems clear that she would concede that--to a certain extent--he may not have fully recognized the significance of his actions. Even then, I think we have to still balance that against the fact that she did not fully recognize the significance of his actions. As she's said, because he didn't actually rape her she told herself it wasn't really a big deal.

There are plenty of lines of inquiry that could end inconclusively trying to examine whether being drunk leads people to do things that are incompatible with their true nature, or reflective of their true nature. And plenty more about to the degree teenage immaturity implies a need for youthful correction or adult punishment. And while I'm not generally inclined to tolerate a "boys will be boys" defense I also think that it has to be remembered that teenagers of the 70s and early 80s were raised differently than those being raised today.

I think most people have been barking up the wrong tree over all of this. I'm not willing to say that Ford's allegations, even if true, are disqualifying. If Ford had reported the assault when it happened, and if he had been charged and convicted, he would have ended up with a sealed juvenile record, and none of us would be able to know about it now. Chances are, even despite all that, he would still have ended up in the same place and would still have been nominated now, but this story would not be on anyone's plate (and rightly so, because I don't think a single mistake from decades in one's past should hang over them forever). Maybe the sum total of the various allegations that seem to reach well into his adult life, but that is probably left as a separate discussion.

I think the credibility question is more important. And for my part, I've continually pointed to discrepancies that indicate he has lied under oath. Considering the wider context of his nomination and judicial history, his dishonesty is the most important matter.

Astoundingly well put. I agree with literally everything in this post with the possible exception of teenagers "being raised differently" in different eras.

Well mainly I just mean that society's attitudes towards the genders has been in constant and dramatic flux for many decades now.

Yes, now women treat men like prey and men hate all women.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I think you are looking at this from the perspective of an old geezer who has no fucking clue about what it's like to be a 15 year old girl who has two boys cornering her, jumping her, covering her mouth, pulling on her clothes, feeling her up and turning up the music so no one would hear her scream.

Not a fucking iota of empathy in your post.

It's attitudes like yours that make women yell at senators in elevators.

It's comments like yours that has spurred the #MeToo movement to a noise level in November that will be so high even old farts like you will be able to hear it.
.
.
.

 

[bripat9643]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I think you are looking at this from the perspective of an old geezer who has no fucking clue about what it's like to be a 15 year old girl who has two boys cornering her, jumping her, covering her mouth, pulling on her clothes, feeling her up and turning out the music so no one would hear her scream.

Not a fucking iota of empathy in your post.

It's attitudes like yours that make women yell at senators in elevators.

It's comments like yours that has spurred the #MeToo movement to a noise level in November that will be so high that even old farts like you will be able to hear it.
.
.
.

It never happened, douchebag.

 

[Pogo]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I agree with the fundamental premise that Kavvy's behavior was partially inspired by juvenile recklessness. But your hypothesis is almost entirely a series of alleged events. There is no substantive link between the particulars that Ford has alleged and the particulars you are suggesting as an alternative, and no basis to invent these alternate allegations.

I see no reason to discount the fundamental story that Ford has told. I don't believe she is lying when she says she was pushed into the room by Judge, nor when she says that Kavvy covered her mouth to suppress her screams. Believing your suggestions requires that we either believe Ford is lying, or that her mind invented those things over time. Neither one is a justifiable hypothesis. And, incidentally, ends up essentially being the same tired "She's crazy, she's confused" excuses that have historically been used to marginalize women when they bring sexual assaults to light.

There's a fine line here, and I'm just trying to drill down a bit on it. Maybe a good term would be "perceived intent". I'm not trying to discount her story as much as I am theorizing a situation in which she reasonably perceived herself to be in grave danger when she in fact was not.

I can sure as hell picture a situation in which a drunk guy forces himself on a woman without actually intending to rape her. For him it's, maybe, aggressive, drunk, manly playfulness. For her, it's a fuckin' attack.

Such theorizing is dangerous on a highly partisan message board, granted, but what the hell.

And then, I think it's fair to question whether something that happened that long ago applies today. If my little story is close to being right, then I'd think he was being dishonest in his testimony, and that's that.
.

I'd have to largely agree with that. Along similar lines, I can't help but remember that Ford herself said that her fear was that Kavvy would accidentally kill her. It seems clear that she would concede that--to a certain extent--he may not have fully recognized the significance of his actions. Even then, I think we have to still balance that against the fact that she did not fully recognize the significance of his actions. As she's said, because he didn't actually rape her she told herself it wasn't really a big deal.

There are plenty of lines of inquiry that could end inconclusively trying to examine whether being drunk leads people to do things that are incompatible with their true nature, or reflective of their true nature. And plenty more about to the degree teenage immaturity implies a need for youthful correction or adult punishment. And while I'm not generally inclined to tolerate a "boys will be boys" defense I also think that it has to be remembered that teenagers of the 70s and early 80s were raised differently than those being raised today.

I think most people have been barking up the wrong tree over all of this. I'm not willing to say that Ford's allegations, even if true, are disqualifying. If Ford had reported the assault when it happened, and if he had been charged and convicted, he would have ended up with a sealed juvenile record, and none of us would be able to know about it now. Chances are, even despite all that, he would still have ended up in the same place and would still have been nominated now, but this story would not be on anyone's plate (and rightly so, because I don't think a single mistake from decades in one's past should hang over them forever). Maybe the sum total of the various allegations that seem to reach well into his adult life, but that is probably left as a separate discussion.

I think the credibility question is more important. And for my part, I've continually pointed to discrepancies that indicate he has lied under oath. Considering the wider context of his nomination and judicial history, his dishonesty is the most important matter.

Astoundingly well put. I agree with literally everything in this post with the possible exception of teenagers "being raised differently" in different eras.

Well mainly I just mean that society's attitudes towards the genders has been in constant and dramatic flux for many decades now.

It's a minor minor point. The only thing I could find that I didn't completely agree with.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

Maybe

But I think it was more than just a dry hump for fun

He tried to remove her clothes but she had a bathing suit on underneath and he gave up

Prove it, asshole.

AM I THE ONLY ONE who has noticed the ring around Chrissy's throat?

View attachment 219298

What is that?

1. Residual marks left from her B&D sex collar removed for the hearing?
2. Deliberately put there to subliminally make her appear more the "victim?"
3. Leftover choke marks from her husband after pleading with the psycho liberal bitch not to go through with this crap failed?

I want this to end up with Brett on the Supreme Court, Feinstein impeached and Chrissy Ford counter-sued for one million dollars.

She looks way older than 51.

My how catty and trollish of you.
Have anything relevant to say besides shallow criticism of her looks?
What would you look like on live camera under the klieg lights?
.
.
..

 

[Pogo]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I agree with the fundamental premise that Kavvy's behavior was partially inspired by juvenile recklessness. But your hypothesis is almost entirely a series of alternate alleged events. There is no substantive link between the particulars that Ford has alleged and the particulars you are suggesting as an alternative, and no basis to invent these alternate allegations.

I see no reason to discount the fundamental story that Ford has told. I don't believe she is lying when she says she was pushed into the room by Judge, nor when she says that Kavvy covered her mouth to suppress her screams. Believing your suggestions requires that we either believe Ford is lying, or that her mind invented those things over time. Neither one is a justifiable hypothesis. And, incidentally, ends up essentially being the same tired "She's crazy, she's confused" excuses that have historically been used to marginalize women when they bring sexual assaults to light.

Why do you believe her and not Judge? This is just another variation of "guilty until proven innocent." Your theory requires Judge to be lying. I'm far more inclined to believe him than to believe her. She admits she was so drunk she can't remember anything clearly.

I have no trouble believing Ford is lying. She has been well paid for lying.

No, she "admits" to one beer. The insignificant details of a day 36 years ago would be fuzzy to nonexistent for all of us.

She says she can't remember where the party was or who drove her home and who was even at the party, but we are supposed to believe her and not Judge? Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.

Judge hasn't even been heard from yet there, Walter Krankheit.

 

[Pogo]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I think you are looking at this from the perspective of an old geezer who has no fucking clue about what it's like to be a 15 year old girl who has two boys cornering her, jumping her, covering her mouth, pulling on her clothes, feeling her up and turning out the music so no one would hear her scream.

Not a fucking iota of empathy in your post.

It's attitudes like yours that make women yell at senators in elevators.

It's comments like yours that has spurred the #MeToo movement to a noise level in November that will be so high that even old farts like you will be able to hear it.
.
.
.

It never happened, douchebag.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand we continue to sit and we continue to wait, for you to prove that negative.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I think you are looking at this from the perspective of an old geezer who has no fucking clue about what it's like to be a 15 year old girl who has two boys cornering her, jumping her, covering her mouth, pulling on her clothes, feeling her up and turning out the music so no one would hear her scream.

Not a fucking iota of empathy in your post.

It's attitudes like yours that make women yell at senators in elevators.

It's comments like yours that has spurred the #MeToo movement to a noise level in November that will be so high that even old farts like you will be able to hear it.
.
.
.

It never happened, douchebag.

You don't know that, douchebag.
And when the FBI report comes out, I'm sure you'll still be firmly settled in your big fat bi-assss.
.
.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I think you are looking at this from the perspective of an old geezer who has no fucking clue about what it's like to be a 15 year old girl who has two boys cornering her, jumping her, covering her mouth, pulling on her clothes, feeling her up and turning up the music so no one would hear her scream.

Not a fucking iota of empathy in your post.

It's attitudes like yours that make women yell at senators in elevators.

It's comments like yours that has spurred the #MeToo movement to a noise level in November that will be so high even old farts like you will be able to hear it.
.
.
.

Well, there's some rational, pragmatic, logical, out-of-the-box thinking to add to the conversation.

Thanks so much.
.

 

[bripat9643]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I think you are looking at this from the perspective of an old geezer who has no fucking clue about what it's like to be a 15 year old girl who has two boys cornering her, jumping her, covering her mouth, pulling on her clothes, feeling her up and turning out the music so no one would hear her scream.

Not a fucking iota of empathy in your post.

It's attitudes like yours that make women yell at senators in elevators.

It's comments like yours that has spurred the #MeToo movement to a noise level in November that will be so high that even old farts like you will be able to hear it.
.
.
.

It never happened, douchebag.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand we continue to sit and we continue to wait, for you to prove that negative.

I've already proven multiple times that she's lying. She lied about the witnesses. She lied about being afraid to fly. She lied about having nothing to gain. Lie, lie, lie.

 

[Synthaholic]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I agree with the fundamental premise that Kavvy's behavior was partially inspired by juvenile recklessness. But your hypothesis is almost entirely a series of alleged events. There is no substantive link between the particulars that Ford has alleged and the particulars you are suggesting as an alternative, and no basis to invent these alternate allegations.

I see no reason to discount the fundamental story that Ford has told. I don't believe she is lying when she says she was pushed into the room by Judge, nor when she says that Kavvy covered her mouth to suppress her screams. Believing your suggestions requires that we either believe Ford is lying, or that her mind invented those things over time. Neither one is a justifiable hypothesis. And, incidentally, ends up essentially being the same tired "She's crazy, she's confused" excuses that have historically been used to marginalize women when they bring sexual assaults to light.

There's a fine line here, and I'm just trying to drill down a bit on it. Maybe a good term would be "perceived intent". I'm not trying to discount her story as much as I am theorizing a situation in which she reasonably perceived herself to be in grave danger when she in fact was not.

I can sure as hell picture a situation in which a drunk guy forces himself on a woman without actually intending to rape her. For him it's, maybe, aggressive, drunk, manly playfulness. For her, it's a fuckin' attack.

Such theorizing is dangerous on a highly partisan message board, granted, but what the hell.

And then, I think it's fair to question whether something that happened that long ago applies today. If my little story is close to being right, then I'd think he was being dishonest in his testimony, and that's that.
.

I can sure as hell picture a situation in which a drunk guy forces himself on a woman without actually intending to rape her. For him it's, maybe, aggressive, drunk, manly playfulness. For her, it's a fuckin' attack.
Manly playfulness? Forces himself on a woman without actually intending to rape her? What IS he doing, then, Mac?

Showing off. Being an asshole. I don't know about you, but I saw stuff not terribly unlike this, and varying degrees of this shit happens every weekend on college campuses.

I'm not condoning or pardoning it. I have two daughters. I just don't see life as a simple, binary, either/or thing. That's just not the way my little brain works.
.

I don’t think he’s a serial sexual abuser or anything like that (although he has been proven to be a serial liar). I think he was a privileged rich kid asshole who acts like a lot of privileged rich kid assholes: like he can do whatever he wants without any real, lasting consequences.

 

[bripat9643]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I think you are looking at this from the perspective of an old geezer who has no fucking clue about what it's like to be a 15 year old girl who has two boys cornering her, jumping her, covering her mouth, pulling on her clothes, feeling her up and turning out the music so no one would hear her scream.

Not a fucking iota of empathy in your post.

It's attitudes like yours that make women yell at senators in elevators.

It's comments like yours that has spurred the #MeToo movement to a noise level in November that will be so high that even old farts like you will be able to hear it.
.
.
.

It never happened, douchebag.

You don't know that, douchebag.
And when the FBI report comes out, I'm sure you'll still be firmly settled in your big fat bi-assss.
.
.
.

Yeah, we pretty much know it as well as it's possible to know anything, and the FBI report won't settle a thing for the Dim douchebags who will stop at nothing to get a scalp.

 

[OldLady]

[

I did my share of wrestling to keep boys from "stealing bases" so to speak

Funny, I did my share of wrestling to steal bases from boys who were too timid or oblivious to make a move. To each their own.

Gosh, are you the REAL Stormy Daniels? Would you sign my autograph book?

 

[bripat9643]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I agree with the fundamental premise that Kavvy's behavior was partially inspired by juvenile recklessness. But your hypothesis is almost entirely a series of alleged events. There is no substantive link between the particulars that Ford has alleged and the particulars you are suggesting as an alternative, and no basis to invent these alternate allegations.

I see no reason to discount the fundamental story that Ford has told. I don't believe she is lying when she says she was pushed into the room by Judge, nor when she says that Kavvy covered her mouth to suppress her screams. Believing your suggestions requires that we either believe Ford is lying, or that her mind invented those things over time. Neither one is a justifiable hypothesis. And, incidentally, ends up essentially being the same tired "She's crazy, she's confused" excuses that have historically been used to marginalize women when they bring sexual assaults to light.

There's a fine line here, and I'm just trying to drill down a bit on it. Maybe a good term would be "perceived intent". I'm not trying to discount her story as much as I am theorizing a situation in which she reasonably perceived herself to be in grave danger when she in fact was not.

I can sure as hell picture a situation in which a drunk guy forces himself on a woman without actually intending to rape her. For him it's, maybe, aggressive, drunk, manly playfulness. For her, it's a fuckin' attack.

Such theorizing is dangerous on a highly partisan message board, granted, but what the hell.

And then, I think it's fair to question whether something that happened that long ago applies today. If my little story is close to being right, then I'd think he was being dishonest in his testimony, and that's that.
.

I can sure as hell picture a situation in which a drunk guy forces himself on a woman without actually intending to rape her. For him it's, maybe, aggressive, drunk, manly playfulness. For her, it's a fuckin' attack.
Manly playfulness? Forces himself on a woman without actually intending to rape her? What IS he doing, then, Mac?

Showing off. Being an asshole. I don't know about you, but I saw stuff not terribly unlike this, and varying degrees of this shit happens every weekend on college campuses.

I'm not condoning or pardoning it. I have two daughters. I just don't see life as a simple, binary, either/or thing. That's just not the way my little brain works.
.

I don’t think he’s a serial sexual abuser or anything like that (although he has been proven to be a serial liar). I think he was a privileged rich kid asshole who acts like a lot of privileged rich kid assholes: like he can do whatever he wants without any real, lasting consequences.

Your confused about who has been proven beyond all doubt to be a liar.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

Blasey Ford has a great life in Palo Alto, CA.
Four degrees: BA, two Masters and a PhD.
Kids and a great career.
She was hoping her letter to Feinstein would stay confidential.
It didn't.
So she rose to the occasion of her accusations and showed bigger stones that Kavanaughty has ever had in his entire, alcohol-soaked, gambling-indebted life.


'I find it very hard to imagine that he never blacked out': Registered Republican Yale classmate speaks out to detail how Brett Kavanaugh DID repeatedly drink in excess
Republican Yale classmate speaks out to detail how Brett Kavanaugh DID repeatedly drink to excess | Daily Mail Online
.
.
.
.

 

[Pogo]

Maybe

But I think it was more than just a dry hump for fun

He tried to remove her clothes but she had a bathing suit on underneath and he gave up

Prove it, asshole.

AM I THE ONLY ONE who has noticed the ring around Chrissy's throat?

View attachment 219298

What is that?

1. Residual marks left from her B&D sex collar removed for the hearing?
2. Deliberately put there to subliminally make her appear more the "victim?"
3. Leftover choke marks from her husband after pleading with the psycho liberal bitch not to go through with this crap failed?

I want this to end up with Brett on the Supreme Court, Feinstein impeached and Chrissy Ford counter-sued for one million dollars.

She looks way older than 51.

In that picture she look more like 81

She has bad skin - the kind that wrinkles and and pits quickly with age. I wonder if some of her emotional instability is due to untreated early onset menopause. That would explain a lot.

Whereas BK's endless references to "beer" (he likes beer, did you know?) and "skis" and puking etc etc etc ---- would not. Funny how that works

 

[bripat9643]

Blasey Ford has a great life in Palo Alto, CA.
Four degrees: BA, two Masters and a PhD.
Kids and a great career.
She was hoping her letter to Feinstein would stay confidential.
It didn't.
So she rose to the occasion of her accusations and showed bigger stones that Kavanaughty has ever had in his entire, alcohol-soaked, gambling-indebted life.


'I find it very hard to imagine that he never blacked out': Registered Republican Yale classmate speaks out to detail how Brett Kavanaugh DID repeatedly drink in excess
Republican Yale classmate speaks out to detail how Brett Kavanaugh DID repeatedly drink to excess | Daily Mail Online
.
.
.
.

You know how you keep something "confidential?" You don't tell anyone about it. The last thing you do is tell a politician who has a strong motive to make it public. Anyone who believes this story has "gullible" tattooed on his forehead.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

Ford has gained $750,000, moron. And don't think that was all from small donors. It's Soros money.

LOL! I keep hearing that bullshit.
Soros is the go-to guy whenever the Repubes take a a hit.
Would you like to post a link providing the source of this conspiracy?
I'll be waiting.
.
.
..

 

[Pogo]

Having spent four fairly boozy years in college, having been to my share of college parties, and just having a fundamental understanding of that environment, here's what I think happened.

I think he was drunk and he dry humped her for "fun". Stupid, sophomoric, thoughtless, "fun". The mix of booze, testosterone and adrenaline can make a young guy do some pretty stupid shit, and you can DOUBLE that when a buddy is there. He and his buddy laughed about it, and maybe she hid her horror by not acting like she had been attacked. Ask them about it a week later, and they may or may not have remembered it.

Different people (men and women) are sensitive to entirely different things. Clearly this really, profoundly hurt Ford, even though he was clowning around. It wasn't a rape, it wasn't an attempted rape, it was a short, stupid, ignorant act by a drunk kid who was showing off and should have fucking known better. Some women would have laughed it off, some would not, and there is no right or wrong response to it.

Should that disqualify any candidate, three decades later, nominated by a President from either party, for the Supreme Court? Not in my book, but it certainly provides a pretty good excuse for partisans of the opposite party nowadays.

My two cents. Yours?
.

I think you are looking at this from the perspective of an old geezer who has no fucking clue about what it's like to be a 15 year old girl who has two boys cornering her, jumping her, covering her mouth, pulling on her clothes, feeling her up and turning out the music so no one would hear her scream.

Not a fucking iota of empathy in your post.

It's attitudes like yours that make women yell at senators in elevators.

It's comments like yours that has spurred the #MeToo movement to a noise level in November that will be so high that even old farts like you will be able to hear it.
.
.
.

It never happened, douchebag.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand we continue to sit and we continue to wait, for you to prove that negative.

I've already proven multiple times that she's lying. She lied about the witnesses. She lied about being afraid to fly. She lied about having nothing to gain. Lie, lie, lie.

We continue to sit, and we continue to wait.