So if a private business owner says one has to be vaxxed to work there

[Ben Thomson]

What can the employee do? As of today? At will employment says all power is with the employer.

If an employer wants to protect his other employees and customers that's his prerogative.

 

[freyasman]

True. You do not have prove your drug test was negative, nor your

If don't want to be part of this society, then maybe you should look elsewhere, although, I don't know where. Just about everywhere there is civilization people ban together for the common good and inevitable that leads to government.

I don't want to be a part of what the leftists have been hellbent on turning this society into; what this society has always been, is fine with me, for the most part.


And government is nothing but organized crime; it should be stomped out wherever you find it.



People who want you to be dependent, are not on your side.

 

[freyasman]

Pardon me, hotshot. Pharmacies give those tests at no cost, and it is done all the time. Insurance companies decide what is necessary and whether they will pay and that is why not. We have an influx of Covid infections. You and your fucking lawsuits.
No, the employee is singled out because he may infect others and cause the business to close or be incapable of operating effectively. Maybe that employee should be sued. Grow up!

Awww...... is reality pissing on your cornflakes?

 

[freyasman]

I know, I know. Everyone is lying, yes? The medical, science communities--all lying. For what reason?

Power.

 

[Rigby5]

If an employer wants to protect his other employees and customers that's his prerogative.

But we already went through that, and vaccines do not protect from infection or transferal, but only lessens symptoms.
And lessening symptoms only helps the individual, no one else.
It does not help the employer, other employees, or customers.

And if the vaccine initiates deadly allergic autoimmune responses, then the vaccine is much more of a threat than the covid virus.

 

[freyasman]

I didn't know that the best workers will refuse the vaccines. Gosh, you have enlightened me.
The "best" workers also make the best money for the most part, and they have enough sense to
recognize that staying home sick does nothing for their paycheck.

The best workers are also the ones who keep your business afloat, and they're the ones who have the least trouble finding other work.



This isn't going to to be the "win" for you guys that you seem to think it is.

 

[freyasman]

Lockdowns and mandates have shown a correlation with COVID-19 prevention and that is the issue.

 

[ThisIsMe]

It wasn't an exact law. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the rulings were at least partially based on the "right to work" laws.

A Texas conservative judge appointed by Ronald Reagan ruled that a private business can mandate that a person be vaccinated or they can be fired.

Judge rules in favor of Houston hospital requiring COVID vaccine for employees

The employees filed a lawsuit sued the hospital over its vaccine requirement, but a judge called the lawsuit frivolous.

abc7news.com

Here is part of his ruling:

"The public's interest in having a hospital capable of caring for patients during a pandemic far outweighs protecting the vaccination preferences of 116 employees," Hughes wrote. "The plaintiffs are not just jeopardizing their own health; they are jeopardizing the health of doctors, nurses, support staff, patients and their families."

Then there is the judge in Indiana who ruled that the University of Indiana can mandate vaccinations. The plaintiffs are appealing the ruling.

College Can Mandate Covid-19 Vaccinations, Federal Judge Rules

A judge ruled to uphold Indiana University's policy to require vaccinations for students and staff entering campus in the fall.

www.forbes.com

Here is part of that ruling:

Federal Judge Damon Leichty denied a request for an injunction, writingthat Indiana University was within its right to create the policy in the “interest of public health” for staff and students.

Then there is the over 100 year ruling by the Supreme Court giving states the right to mandate vaccines with the small pox vaccination.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905)

In 1905, the U.S. Supreme Court said that Massachusett's compulsory smallpox vaccination program did not violate a pastor's religious freedom rights under the First Amendment in Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

mtsu.edu

Finally if people didn't spend so many decades fighting to kill unions, strip worker's rights and give a lot more power to private business people might not be in this situation now.

Yeah, well, the signs are there...vaccine mandates are coming.

About the only thing I can see that might get in the way if that is productivity. A lot of people are dead set against vaccines.

If companies force people into a choice of vaccine or find another job, it could lead to a situation where people call their bluff. If companies lose too many workers, it could hurt their production. This could lead to companies being a bit lax with a vaccine mandate.

 

[Flopper]

That is totally wrong.
The delta variant is slightly more infectious, but much less lethal, so fewer are being hospitalized than ever.
And the vaccine does not make you less likely to be infected, at all.
The only point you may have is that a person vaccinated may shed less virus?
But even that is just idle speculation.
Since the vaccinated will be less symptomatic, it is also more likely they will come to work even if infected, because they won't know it.

"The delta variant is slightly more infectious, but much less lethal, so fewer are being hospitalized than ever."
Partially true. The delta variant is much more infections. The transmissivity of delta variant is twice that as of the original Wuhan strain. Viral load delivery upon transmission, far greater than the ordinal virus, up to a 1000 times greater. Furthermore, significantly more viral particles have been found in the airways of patients infected with the Delta variant.

Deaths and hospitalizations are less than with the original virus in the US and the UK because of the vaccine and and better treatment methods such as availability of antivirals and better use of ventilators, use of steroids, and blood thinners As the delta variant sweeps Africa where on only 1.7% of population is vaccinated and most hospitals are short on just about everything needed to fight the virus, the death toll is skyrocketing. Weekly Deaths increased by 89%, from 13,242 to 24,987, in the last 28 days, when compared against statistics for the previous 28 days. There is no doubt the delta variant in Africa is far more deadly than alpha variant.

"And the vaccine does not make you less likely to be infected, at all."
If you consider the initial attack of viral particles breaking into cells as an infection, no vaccine can protects you against this. However, if you consider an infection to be an invasion of the body by the virus which makes you ill or interferes with bodily functions, then being vaccinated will certainly reduce infection and most probably keep you out of the hospital.

If you understand how the immune system actually works and how vaccines works, it might change your mind about vaccines, or maybe not. The CDC link below discusses. In short, the vaccine, interacts with the muscle tissue it is injected into to create a duplicate of the spike protein which on the outside the virus. Once the spike protein is created, two things happen, the vaccine having done it's job passes from the body and it is recognized by the immune system as a foreign substance. The immune system creates a response which can take up to two weeks to complete. This response is remembered by the immune reducing the time needed for the body to respond to the virus. That time can drastically reduced by the vaccine. Just like an epidemic, the faster the response, the better the outcome.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/03/africa/delta-variant-covid-africa-intl/index.htmlhttps://asm.org/Articles/2021/July/How-Dangerous-is-the-Delta-Variant-B-1-617-2

Explaining How Vaccines Work

These resources for healthcare providers can help parents understand how vaccines work.

www.cdc.gov

How Dangerous Is the Delta Variant (B.1.617.2)? | ASM.org

Delta has quickly become the dominant SARS-CoV-2 variant in over a dozen countries around the world. How contagious and deadly is this variant? Will vaccines remain protective against Delta?

asm.org

 

[Dana7360]

They are at the top for cases TODAY, yes. That does not mean they will translate into deaths or that the spikes now have any relation to the spikes before mass vaccination. What we do know is that FL and TX are nowhere near the death rates that you have seen in NY, NJ or MA period. They are very unlikely to get there, almost everyone in a high risk category has already gotten vaccinated.

If we are looking at policy and trying to see what the ACTUAL outcomes have been, lockdowns and mandates show no correlative function with death. none at all. Pulling out a specific slice in time and focusing on something that is irrelevant - I do not care how many cases there are, only how many may die/become disabled - does not bolster the idea that such mandates were effective. By all available information, they have been utterly ineffective.

I just looked up the death totals for NY, FL and TX.

Yes they are near the death rate as New York. Especially Texas.

New York deaths 54,325
Florida deaths. 39,695
Texas 52,452

Give it time, Florida and Texas will catch up to the death total New York has. Especially since both Texas and Florida have made mask mandates illegal.

 

[Dana7360]

Yeah, well, the signs are there...vaccine mandates are coming.

About the only thing I can see that might get in the way if that is productivity. A lot of people are dead set against vaccines.

If companies force people into a choice of vaccine or find another job, it could lead to a situation where people call their bluff. If companies lose too many workers, it could hurt their production. This could lead to companies being a bit lax with a vaccine mandate.

I guess you forget about the meat processing plants that had to shutdown more than once last year because of the virus.

Too many of their employees were in the hospital fighting for their lives. Many of them died.

If a customer gets the virus in a business and can prove it, that customer can and probably will sue that business.

A lot of people don't want to work at a business where they can get a virus that can possibly kill them. That business may have a hard time getting people to work there if people know that they can possibly die from working there.

 

[Colin norris]

I don't believe you can prove that.

So tell me, how exactly did you get access to the private medical records of all these patients?






Or are you just another liar?

Your problem is you don't think at all. Medical records are irrelevant. They don't admit them for covid for the exercise or to skim off money from the government.
Do your own checking dickhead.

Vast majority of ICU patients with COVID-19 are unvaccinated, ABC News survey finds

Dozens of hospitals surveyed by ABC News across the country report that very few fully vaccinated people are ending up in the ICU with COVID-19.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Flopper]

Yeah, well, the signs are there...vaccine mandates are coming.

About the only thing I can see that might get in the way if that is productivity. A lot of people are dead set against vaccines.

If companies force people into a choice of vaccine or find another job, it could lead to a situation where people call their bluff. If companies lose too many workers, it could hurt their production. This could lead to companies being a bit lax with a vaccine mandate.

It's not just about jobs. Without a vaccine, a lot of things in our society such as international travel, use of public transportation, admissions to large indoor events, and job opportunities will either be denied or will require routine corvid tests which are are a pain in the ass. Once the FDA approves the vaccine, probably next month, there's going to be a lot of businesses that are going to require vaccinations or recent covid tests. I have already seen several restaurants and bars that require proof of vaccination to enter. Although society can't force you to get vaccinated, it can certainly make life better for you with a vaccine.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The integrity of your body is being violated. Only you should decide what goes into your body.

Who says you can't? Get a different job, then. Tough titties, you chose the wrong side of morality, of ethics, and of history. That's on you.

 

[dblack]

The integrity of your body is being violated. Only you should decide what goes into your body.

You do get to decide.

 

[Orangecat]

I believe in equality, so, much like an employee can terminate the employment for any reason, an employer should be able to as well.

 

[Flopper]

All those guys who run the power plants, build your houses, drill for oil and run the refineries, well...... those guys like me a lot more than they do you.
And they're a lot more likely to side with folks like me, than they will with people like you.

You ever work on an oil rig?

You got any mechanics in the family?

Do you know how to raise livestock?

Repair an HVAC unit?

You know any electricians?


All of us do.


Good luck getting along without us.

I would bet that most of them after having to get a covid test every week to keep their job, or go to a concert, indoor sporting event, or their favorite bar or restaurant will make a decision to go get vaxed.

 

[Ordinary Guy]

Saying they do proves nothing. Your assertion is utterly without merit. AGAIN, HIPPA just does not allow the acquisition of medical records without your authorization. That is it.

You are claiming that practices that happen right now are illegal. Hospitals require CURRENT vaccinations in, at a minimum, certain roles. Refuse the flu vaccine and a cancer ward will get you fired.

And I already addressed what laws cover HIV, ADA not HIPPA. Those are 2 entirely different laws.

If I were people would be getting fired, they aren't.

 

[Flopper]

That's totally messed up. I'm self-employed so it doesn't affect me, and a hospital is somewhat in a grey zone, but Amazon or GM mandating an experimental drug to keep your job? Well, there go any Charter of rights and Freedom right onto the fire heap, might as well throw the whole Constitution in the garbage since there is no body autonomy anymore. I bet you want to outlaw abortion as well.

It's not experimental. It passed FDA safety and effectiveness requirements in the lab 18 months ago, passed FDA requirements in 3 clinical trials of 40,000 people. And it's safety and effectiveness has been confirmed by 330 million vaccinations. FDA final approval for these vaccines is just a formality. By the time most of those mandates take effect, the vaccines will have full FDA approval. Expect a number of other companies to require vaccinations or weekly covid tests after full FDA approval.

 

[Flopper]

Somebody who isn't vaxxed could pass it along to others who are or are not vaxxed and spread the pandemic, and that is what is happening now. If vaxxed, your chances are greatly improved.

I don't know how many people would be willing to risk their job by lying to their employer over a vaccine. You got to be pretty committed to the cause to do that. In most states, vaccination records can be verified.