So...Sweden got it right on the chinese flu.....

[Rigby5]

They did not need mandates because the population did it voluntarily.

Good point, but also the fact is the faster you reach herd immunity by young/healthy recovering, then the fewer deaths you have in total.
Masks and social distancing can not save any lives, but kills more by making it last longer than it should have normally.

Try looking at Sweden's neighbors (Denmark, Finland, and Norway) who DID lock down and mitigate.

THOUSANDS less dead and economies in better shape

Wrong.
Denmark, Finland, and Norway masked and locked down less than Sweden.
They just have less transients and outside contact.

It is easy to tell just by what you wrote, "economies in better shape".
It is impossible to have an economy in better shape by locking down more.
The only way to have a better economy is to lock down less.

 

[Rigby5]

A closer look at what is really going on in Sweden...

And the dramatic drop in new cases and deaths in that country point to a rapidly improving situation there in defiance of many earlier predictions.
The Swedish government has engaged in minimal interventions and imposed relatively few restrictions upon its citizenry for the duration of the pandemic. Yet the so-called "Swedish model" has for months drawn alarm and derision from countless world health authorities. Many have insisted that sweeping, open-ended restrictions on social and economic activity — including lockdowns, strict "social distancing" measures, and mandatory face mask orders — are the only practical methods by which the coronavirus can be halted.
------

Perhaps more pointedly, in countries that imposed some of the more draconian lockdowns in the Western world — the U.K., Italy, Spain — the pandemic at times seemed to rage out of control compared with Sweden's relatively level epidemic curve. Italy and Spain at the height of their outbreaks recorded many hundreds of deaths per day and saw, at times, local health systems on the verge of collapse.

Both countries have population-adjusted fatality rates above that of Sweden; smaller government authorities, such as those of New York and New Jersey, also have fatality rates far above Sweden's. New York State, where Gov.

Andrew Cuomo instituted one of the strongest and most restrictive lockdowns in the U.S., has a population-adjusted death rate three times that of Sweden.

After 6 months without lockdown, Sweden's COVID-19 deaths, infections bottom out

Open schools, little mask usage, few restrictions have flouted much of the world's response.

justthenews.com

So the the final tally is:
US had 1831.74 deaths per million people.
Sweden had 1421.33 deaths per million people.

COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista

COVID deaths worldwide were highest in Peru, topping a list that compares deaths per million in 210 countries worldwide.

www.statista.com

So Sweden did better without any mask or social distancing mandates.

They didn't do it voluntarily until thousands had died and their economy cratered anyway

Wrong.
Far fewer % died in Sweden than the US, and their economy did better than the US.
For example, they were never foolish enough to close schools, knowing that those under 18 essentially are inherently immune.

 

[Rigby5]

A closer look at what is really going on in Sweden...

And the dramatic drop in new cases and deaths in that country point to a rapidly improving situation there in defiance of many earlier predictions.
The Swedish government has engaged in minimal interventions and imposed relatively few restrictions upon its citizenry for the duration of the pandemic. Yet the so-called "Swedish model" has for months drawn alarm and derision from countless world health authorities. Many have insisted that sweeping, open-ended restrictions on social and economic activity — including lockdowns, strict "social distancing" measures, and mandatory face mask orders — are the only practical methods by which the coronavirus can be halted.
------

Perhaps more pointedly, in countries that imposed some of the more draconian lockdowns in the Western world — the U.K., Italy, Spain — the pandemic at times seemed to rage out of control compared with Sweden's relatively level epidemic curve. Italy and Spain at the height of their outbreaks recorded many hundreds of deaths per day and saw, at times, local health systems on the verge of collapse.

Both countries have population-adjusted fatality rates above that of Sweden; smaller government authorities, such as those of New York and New Jersey, also have fatality rates far above Sweden's. New York State, where Gov.

Andrew Cuomo instituted one of the strongest and most restrictive lockdowns in the U.S., has a population-adjusted death rate three times that of Sweden.

After 6 months without lockdown, Sweden's COVID-19 deaths, infections bottom out

Open schools, little mask usage, few restrictions have flouted much of the world's response.

justthenews.com

So the the final tally is:
US had 1831.74 deaths per million people.
Sweden had 1421.33 deaths per million people.

COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista

COVID deaths worldwide were highest in Peru, topping a list that compares deaths per million in 210 countries worldwide.

www.statista.com

So Sweden did better without any mask or social distancing mandates.

It just means Sweden had fewer people fall off of buildings or get hit by buses.

The statistics claimed to only be counting covid deaths, but with the US you never know.
But Sweden is more trustworthy.

 

[Lesh]

Wrong.
Far fewer % died in Sweden than the US, and their economy did better than the US.

Comparing Sweden to their neighbors (Finland, Denmark, and Norway) shows the utter failure of the Sweden approach

 

[Lesh]

Wrong.
Denmark, Finland, and Norway masked and locked down less than Sweden.
They just have less transients and outside contact.

That...is an abject lie

 

[Rigby5]

Wrong.
Far fewer % died in Sweden than the US, and their economy did better than the US.

Comparing Sweden to their neighbors (Finland, Denmark, and Norway) shows the utter failure of the Sweden approach

Totally wrong.
It is a lie to claim Finland, Denmark, and Norway prove social distancing was better than what Sweden did.
First of all, the low infection rate in these countries was because most people get to these countries through Sweden, so Sweden was catching the infected people for them.
Second is that these other Scandinavian countries did social distancing even less than Sweden did.

 

[Lesh]

First of all, the low infection rate in these countries was because most people get to these countries through Sweden, so Sweden was catching the infected people for them.

What kind of bizarre logic let you spew that nonsense? Do you think that you leave the virus behind you when you cross a border?

Sheesh

Second is that these other Scandinavian countries did social distancing even less than Sweden did.

They did just the opposite.

Please stop spewing nonsense

 

[Lesh]

https://escholarship.org/content/qt0v87n84k/qt0v87n84k_noSplash_657919e72eed970def2440df233f60df.pdf

Non‑COVID‑19 deaths after social distancing in Norway

 

[Lesh]

Fast in, first out: Denmark leads lockdown exit

Four weeks after Denmark began easing its lockdown, Danes on Monday returned to cafes and restaurants, confident that the coronavirus outbreak is under control.

www.reuters.com

Denmark coming out of LOCK DOWN dopey

And newsflash. You don't go through Sweden to get to Denmark

And airlines don't have to land in Sweden to get to Finland or Norway

What an idiot

 

[Rigby5]

Wrong.
Denmark, Finland, and Norway masked and locked down less than Sweden.
They just have less transients and outside contact.

That...is an abject lie

You are the liar.
I know people living in Scandinavia, so I know what is really happening, not what you want to believe.

First of all, the low infection rate in these countries was because most people get to these countries through Sweden, so Sweden was catching the infected people for them.

What kind of bizarre logic let you spew that nonsense? Do you think that you leave the virus behind you when you cross a border?

Sheesh

Second is that these other Scandinavian countries did social distancing even less than Sweden did.

They did just the opposite.

Please stop spewing nonsense

Wrong.
The majority of the traffic to and from these smaller Scandinavian countries, has to go through Sweden, which has the major transportation routes.
So then Sweden was filtering out the infected for these other countries, keeping them safe.
And yes the virus is left behind at the border if one is doing things like checking temperatures at the border.

And YES, Norway, Finland, etc., have even less restrictions than Sweden.

How Finland and Norway Proved Sweden’s Approach to COVID-19 Works

Norway and Finland have some of the lowest COVID-19 death rates in the world. Many have pointed to their success as a contrast to Sweden, which has a much higher COVID-19 death rate. But a key factor is being overlooked.

fee.org

{...
Belgium, for example, has the second highest COVID-19 death rate in the world even though it implemented one of the strictest lockdowns in the world (81.5 stringency). Italy and Spain had even harsher lockdowns, and both countries are also among the most devastated by the virus. (Italy’s current death rate is lower than that of Belgium and Spain, but the country is facing a resurgence of the virus that looks positively frightening.)

Italy's pattern looks scary right now. Calls for lockdown are growing.

Prediction: Mass lockdowns are coming again - not because they work, but because for politicians the incentives are obvious. You have to make it look like you're "doing something." pic.twitter.com/Zcw9qHwjtG
— Jon Miltimore (@miltimore79) November 12, 2020

We can measure lockdown stringency because of a feature created by Our World in Data, a research team based at the University of Oxford that produces information in all sorts of wonderful charts and graphs.

While most of the world went into lockdown in March, Swedish officials chose to forgo a full lockdown, opting instead for a “lighter touch” approach that relied on cooperation with citizens, who were given public health information and encouraged to behave responsibly.

Our World in Data shows Sweden’s government response stringency never reached 50, peaking at about 46 from late April to early June. (As a point of reference, the US averaged a stringency of about 70 from March to September.) This is well below the top stringency of Spain (85) and Italy (94).

Yet, Sweden’s per capita death rate is lower than Spain, Belgium, Italy and other nations despite the fact that it did not initiate a lockdown. As a result, Sweden’s economy was spared much of the damage these nations suffered (though not all).

Despite the apparent success of Sweden’s strategy, the Swedes have found themselves attacked. The New York Times has described Sweden’s policy as a “cautionary tale,” while other media outlets have used it as an illustration of how not to handle the coronavirus.

Critics of Sweden’s policy point out that although Sweden has experienced fewer deaths than many European nations, it has suffered more than its Nordic neighbors, Finland and Norway.

This is true, but it needs to be contextualized.

Norway and Finland have some of the lowest COVID-19 death rates in the world, with 54 deaths per one million citizens and 66 per million respectively. This is well below the median in Europe (240 per million) and Sweden’s rate (605 per million).

What these critics fail to realize is that both Finland and Norway have had less restrictive policies than Sweden for the bulk of the pandemic—not more lockdowns.

Norway’s lockdown stringency has been less than 40 since early June, and fell all the way to 28.7 in September and October. Finland’s lockdown stringency followed a similar pattern, floating around the mid to low 30s for most of the second half of the year, before creeping back up to 41 around Halloween.

When people compare Sweden unfavorably to Finland and Norway to dismiss its laissez-faire policy, they are drawing the opposite conclusion from what the data point really reveals. Yes, Finland and Norway have lower deaths than Sweden—but they have actually been more laissez-faire than their neighbor for the majority of the pandemic.

Since June, Finland and Norway have had less restrictive government policies than Sweden, and both nations have endured the coronavirus remarkably well. They have been among the freest nations in the world since early June, and COVID-19 deaths have been miniscule.
...}

 

[Rigby5]

https://escholarship.org/content/qt0v87n84k/qt0v87n84k_noSplash_657919e72eed970def2440df233f60df.pdf

Non‑COVID‑19 deaths after social distancing in Norway

Nonsense.
Of course there as social distancing both in Norway AND Sweden.
But the point is that there was less social distancing than places like Belgium and Italy, and yet far lower death rates.
And your link is pointless because it only compare NON-COVID related deaths.
In no way does your link actually compare the amount of social distancing between Norway and Sweden for example.

 

[Rigby5]

Fast in, first out: Denmark leads lockdown exit

Four weeks after Denmark began easing its lockdown, Danes on Monday returned to cafes and restaurants, confident that the coronavirus outbreak is under control.

www.reuters.com

Denmark coming out of LOCK DOWN dopey

And newsflash. You don't go through Sweden to get to Denmark

And airlines don't have to land in Sweden to get to Finland or Norway

What an idiot

Wrong.
The majority of traffic in and out of Denmark does come from Sweden, and almost no one flies to Finland or Norway, but instead takes mass transit through Sweden.

The fact Denmark is coming out of lock down does NOT at all imply that Denmark implemented more social distancing then Sweden.
All sources indicate much less social distancing in places like Finland and Norway, as compared to Sweden.

 

[Lesh]

Fast in, first out: Denmark leads lockdown exit

Four weeks after Denmark began easing its lockdown, Danes on Monday returned to cafes and restaurants, confident that the coronavirus outbreak is under control.

www.reuters.com

Denmark coming out of LOCK DOWN dopey

And newsflash. You don't go through Sweden to get to Denmark

And airlines don't have to land in Sweden to get to Finland or Norway

What an idiot

Wrong.
The majority of traffic in and out of Denmark does come from Sweden, and almost no one flies to Finland or Norway, but instead takes mass transit through Sweden.

The fact Denmark is coming out of lock down does NOT at all imply that Denmark implemented more social distancing then Sweden.
All sources indicate much less social distancing in places like Finland and Norway, as compared to Sweden.

So “coming out of lock down” means they were never in lockdown?
Welcome to Rigby world

What sources are you using??

 

[Lesh]

https://escholarship.org/content/qt0v87n84k/qt0v87n84k_noSplash_657919e72eed970def2440df233f60df.pdf

Non‑COVID‑19 deaths after social distancing in Norway

Nonsense.
Of course there as social distancing both in Norway AND Sweden.
But the point is that there was less social distancing than places like Belgium and Italy, and yet far lower death rates.
And your link is pointless because it only compare NON-COVID related deaths.
In no way does your link actually compare the amount of social distancing between Norway and Sweden for example.

Belgium and Italy are NOT a good comparison.

Fail

 

[Rigby5]

Fast in, first out: Denmark leads lockdown exit

Four weeks after Denmark began easing its lockdown, Danes on Monday returned to cafes and restaurants, confident that the coronavirus outbreak is under control.

www.reuters.com

Denmark coming out of LOCK DOWN dopey

And newsflash. You don't go through Sweden to get to Denmark

And airlines don't have to land in Sweden to get to Finland or Norway

What an idiot

Wrong.
The majority of traffic in and out of Denmark does come from Sweden, and almost no one flies to Finland or Norway, but instead takes mass transit through Sweden.

The fact Denmark is coming out of lock down does NOT at all imply that Denmark implemented more social distancing then Sweden.
All sources indicate much less social distancing in places like Finland and Norway, as compared to Sweden.

So “coming out of lock down” means they were never in lockdown?
Welcome to Rigby world

What sources are you using??

No, the reality is the voluntary social distancing of Sweden was stricter than the mandated social distancing of Norway, Finland, etc.
Lock down is a word, not at all an implication of degree.
You would have to compare if all restaurants were closed or not, what density stores were allowed, what the compliance % was, etc.
And what I read says Sweden was stricter lock down than Norway, Finland, etc., just voluntary.

 

[Rigby5]

https://escholarship.org/content/qt0v87n84k/qt0v87n84k_noSplash_657919e72eed970def2440df233f60df.pdf

Non‑COVID‑19 deaths after social distancing in Norway

Nonsense.
Of course there as social distancing both in Norway AND Sweden.
But the point is that there was less social distancing than places like Belgium and Italy, and yet far lower death rates.
And your link is pointless because it only compare NON-COVID related deaths.
In no way does your link actually compare the amount of social distancing between Norway and Sweden for example.

Belgium and Italy are NOT a good comparison.

Fail

True, but they do show how social distancing may not be the only or best solution.
Its more complicated than that.
Historically it still is best to accelerate the initial spike, not try to "flatten the curve".

 

[justinacolmena]

The Swedish government has engaged in minimal interventions and imposed relatively few restrictions upon its citizenry for the duration of the pandemic. Yet the so-called "Swedish model" has for months drawn alarm and derision from countless world health authorities.

In other words, Communist Party or Jewish world health authorities resent the relative freedoms and liberties of Swedish citizens, and instead are demanding a more authoritarian or totalitarian form of local government for each län and stad throughout Sweden.

 

[Lesh]

https://escholarship.org/content/qt0v87n84k/qt0v87n84k_noSplash_657919e72eed970def2440df233f60df.pdf

Non‑COVID‑19 deaths after social distancing in Norway

Nonsense.
Of course there as social distancing both in Norway AND Sweden.
But the point is that there was less social distancing than places like Belgium and Italy, and yet far lower death rates.
And your link is pointless because it only compare NON-COVID related deaths.
In no way does your link actually compare the amount of social distancing between Norway and Sweden for example.

Belgium and Italy are NOT a good comparison.

Fail

True, but they do show how social distancing may not be the only or best solution.
Its more complicated than that.
Historically it still is best to accelerate the initial spike, not try to "flatten the curve".

You admit you’re full of shit and fall back on other bullshit

 

[Rigby5]

https://escholarship.org/content/qt0v87n84k/qt0v87n84k_noSplash_657919e72eed970def2440df233f60df.pdf

Non‑COVID‑19 deaths after social distancing in Norway

Nonsense.
Of course there as social distancing both in Norway AND Sweden.
But the point is that there was less social distancing than places like Belgium and Italy, and yet far lower death rates.
And your link is pointless because it only compare NON-COVID related deaths.
In no way does your link actually compare the amount of social distancing between Norway and Sweden for example.

Belgium and Italy are NOT a good comparison.

Fail

True, but they do show how social distancing may not be the only or best solution.
Its more complicated than that.
Historically it still is best to accelerate the initial spike, not try to "flatten the curve".

You admit you’re full of shit and fall back on other bullshit

Wrong.
I admit Italy and Belgium are cherry picking the worst, and is not valid proof since we don't really know why they were so bad.
But obviously Sweden did not do as badly as the US.
No one can deny that.
Nor can anyone ever defend "flattening the curve".
That by anyone's value system is incredibly stupid, as all it does is prevent herd immunity from ever ending the epidemic.
And a perpetual epidemic obviously is the worst case for largest total deaths eventually.
You get the least number of deaths by accelerating it as quickly as possible, with the most healthy volunteers

 

[Lesh]

https://escholarship.org/content/qt0v87n84k/qt0v87n84k_noSplash_657919e72eed970def2440df233f60df.pdf

Non‑COVID‑19 deaths after social distancing in Norway

Nonsense.
Of course there as social distancing both in Norway AND Sweden.
But the point is that there was less social distancing than places like Belgium and Italy, and yet far lower death rates.
And your link is pointless because it only compare NON-COVID related deaths.
In no way does your link actually compare the amount of social distancing between Norway and Sweden for example.

Belgium and Italy are NOT a good comparison.

Fail

True, but they do show how social distancing may not be the only or best solution.
Its more complicated than that.
Historically it still is best to accelerate the initial spike, not try to "flatten the curve".

You admit you’re full of shit and fall back on other bullshit

Wrong.
I admit Italy and Belgium are cherry picking the worst, and is not valid proof since we don't really know why they were so bad.
But obviously Sweden did not do as badly as the US.
No one can deny that.
Nor can anyone ever defend "flattening the curve".
That by anyone's value system is incredibly stupid, as all it does is prevent herd immunity from ever ending the epidemic.
And a perpetual epidemic obviously is the worst case for largest total deaths eventually.
You get the least number of deaths by accelerating it as quickly as possible, with the most healthy volunteers

And you seamlessly move on to more bullshit assertions