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As a kid, I recall many WWII vets, and one thing they had in common, they rarely talked about it.
Nothing to debate here. It's cut and dried .People eitheir insult veterans or they don't. If they do then they are an undeserving foul piece of excrement. Period.Well I can see i'm outdone here. Amazing debating skills, and so clever.If you look anything like your avi, Uncle Sam wouldn't want your sorry ass.Much more credibility than all that nonsense about fighting for freedom. I remember seeing that bumper sticker that read "My son is in Iraq so you can have your freedom" Somebody suggested that was propaganda. I stated no, it's an outright lie. In my books military personel get less respect than others. We can blame Bush or any other president for these invasions and wars but the real problem is those who sign up to blindly do their bidding.Pretty much what I thought.Absolutely not. Never going to fight to help the rich get richer.I would have thought that was obvious - a 'gimme'.
By that, I mean, are you a veteran of the US or an allied military, yourself?
The rest of us will view your remark: 'A veteran should not be considered above anyone else.' with all the seriousness and credibility it deserves.
Pretty much sums it up....Nothing to debate here. It's cut and dried .People eitheir insult veterans or they don't. If they do then they are an undeserving foul piece of excrement. Period.
True dat. When I get together with my bunch you need hip waders and a steel helmet. Bullets fly thick as a bee swarm.As a kid, I recall many WWII vets, and one thing they had in common, they rarely talked about it.
I have heard this mentioned many times and it could stand to be slightly corrected.
It is true veterans seldom talk about their experiences ... With civilians who don't have anything to compare it to. Put a bunch of vets with common experiences together and it is sometimes hard to get a word in edgewise.
.
THe problem is the US completely ignores or sweeps under the rug the attrocities of their military. Look at how many people still defend the invasions of North Korea or Vietnam. The My Lai Massacre, the No Gun Ri Massacre, or the Gulf Of Tonkin incidents are sometimes completely ignored by US history books or manipulated by propaganda so that there is still support for these events still today. Yes we know Bush and his cronies lied to bring support to the war but this has been done in the past numerous times. Lies were spread about even the smaller interventions against Cuba, Guatemala, Panama, Grenada...etcOh, there's no escaping the idea that the Iraq War was complete and total bullshit.Much more credibility than all that nonsense about fighting for freedom. I remember seeing that bumper sticker that read "My son is in Iraq so you can have your freedom" Somebody suggested that was propaganda. I stated no, it's an outright lie. In my books military personel get less respect than others. We can blame Bush or any other president for these invasions and wars but the real problem is those who sign up to blindly do their bidding.Pretty much what I thought.Absolutely not. Never going to fight to help the rich get richer.I would have thought that was obvious - a 'gimme'.You need to elaborate. What club are you talking about?
By that, I mean, are you a veteran of the US or an allied military, yourself?
The rest of us will view your remark: 'A veteran should not be considered above anyone else.' with all the seriousness and credibility it deserves.
However, when you are in the Armed Forces, you don't get to pick and choose your wars; you go where your country needs you to go.
Hindsight is 20/20 - the casus belli for Iraq was already looking questionable at the time but things were far less clear in 2003 than they were a couple of years later, when that horseshit bumper sticker would have been printed.
And that uncertainty goes double for the personal confusion experienced by the young people of the times who were badly used by their civilian superiors.
Do not blame the young kids who went into harm's way, in connection with Iraq. Blame their civilian elected officials, who sent them there on false premises.
If you truly believe that the REAL problem is the people who sign-up to serve their country and to put themselves into harm's way, rather than the errant public officials who, from time to time, send them on missions or campaigns of questionable value or merit, then, you are not someone whom most of your countrymen would want to stand beside.
And, if you truly cannot correctly distinguish between dedication and service to country and countrymen, versus misuse by elected civilian government officials, then you are also not particularly perceptive, nor realistic - nor, for that matter, much of an American, as that appellation is commonly perceived and applied by most of your own countrymen.
As I said before - the rest of us will view your remark - 'A veteran should not be considered above anyone else' - with all the seriousness and credibility that it deserves.
Thank you for your feedback.
Lighten up Francis!!!, its the internetz. I used to pass 98% of the types of people on this forum through my stool back when I served.Asclepias insisted a man that claims to be a vet is not and insults him. Who thinks this is poor form? How would you feel if someone claimed you were not a vet as you claim?
No one believes I served? Meh. The only thing that matters is that I, and Nature's God know 
The rest is irrelevant static.
I'm a Pepper,relax Francis, its the internetz. I used to pass 98% of the types of people on this forum through my stool back when I served.Asclepias insisted a man that claims to be a vet is not and insults him. Who thinks this is poor form? How would you feel if someone claimed you were not a vet as you claim?
Maybe you should have quit when you were ahead, Killer?True dat. When I get together with my bunch you need hip waders and a steel helmet. Bullets fly thick as a bee swarm.As a kid, I recall many WWII vets, and one thing they had in common, they rarely talked about it.
I have heard this mentioned many times and it could stand to be slightly corrected.
It is true veterans seldom talk about their experiences ... With civilians who don't have anything to compare it to. Put a bunch of vets with common experiences together and it is sometimes hard to get a word in edgewise.
.
I have reached the conclusion that you are not an American, and I don't think I want to take this exchange much further....THe problem is the US completely ignores or sweeps under the rug the attrocities of their military...
Kondor3, I admire your candor about accepting the US military has it's faults. Am I angry at every individual in the military? Hell no. I even feel some join with the best of intentions. My rant has more to do with looking at the organization as a whole. I feel the top brass are just as crooked as the politicians and they have plenty of fodder (both civilian and serviceman) to believe everything that is thrown at them. I believe that it is just harder to criticize this crookedness because some feel the military demands respect and is imune to criticism. I'm sorry if I offended you, I just go off on rants from time to time.I have reached the conclusion that you are not an American, and I don't think I want to take this exchange much further....THe problem is the US completely ignores or sweeps under the rug the attrocities of their military...
This has nothing to do with admitting that the US military has committed atrocities on occasion, over the years, not does it have to do with our own particular style of justice for such crimes, and our subsequent tendency to relegate such matters to the dust-bin of history, nor does it have to do with the quality of the US educational system.
It has far more to do with personal outrage at the implication that the US military is comprised primarily of criminals and that the nation covers up their actions and that the military itself is responsible for initiating wars rather than its civilian masters.
Somebody else can chip-in and take you to task for the rather broad, sweeping collection of partisan assessments and condemnations. I choose not to ruin my Sunday afternoon with the sort of bile that would otherwise rise to the surface.
< end of sequence >
You're partly right about the top brass. Obama, like Stalin and every good dictator, is purging the military of patriotic Generals and Admirals and high ranking officers. He's keeping his yes-men and coffee fetchers and defanging the military. But you can't attach any blame to the rank and file. All the veterans know what is happening but it won't happen long.Kondor3, I admire your candor about accepting the US military has it's faults. Am I angry at every individual in the military? Hell no. I even feel some join with the best of intentions. My rant has more to do with looking at the organization as a whole. I feel the top brass are just as crooked as the politicians and they have plenty of fodder (both civilian and serviceman) to believe everything that is thrown at them. I believe that it is just harder to criticize this crookedness because some feel the military demands respect and is imune to criticism. I'm sorry if I offended you, I just go off on rants from time to time.I have reached the conclusion that you are not an American, and I don't think I want to take this exchange much further....THe problem is the US completely ignores or sweeps under the rug the attrocities of their military...
This has nothing to do with admitting that the US military has committed atrocities on occasion, over the years, not does it have to do with our own particular style of justice for such crimes, and our subsequent tendency to relegate such matters to the dust-bin of history, nor does it have to do with the quality of the US educational system.
It has far more to do with personal outrage at the implication that the US military is comprised primarily of criminals and that the nation covers up their actions and that the military itself is responsible for initiating wars rather than its civilian masters.
Somebody else can chip-in and take you to task for the rather broad, sweeping collection of partisan assessments and condemnations. I choose not to ruin my Sunday afternoon with the sort of bile that would otherwise rise to the surface.
< end of sequence >
The US has shed a lot of blood and tears for freedom all over the world. And would be right there for Canada so malcontents like you have the freedom to spew your hate.THe problem is the US completely ignores or sweeps under the rug the attrocities of their military. Look at how many people still defend the invasions of North Korea or Vietnam. The My Lai Massacre, the No Gun Ri Massacre, or the Gulf Of Tonkin incidents are sometimes completely ignored by US history books or manipulated by propaganda so that there is still support for these events still today. Yes we know Bush and his cronies lied to bring support to the war but this has been done in the past numerous times. Lies were spread about even the smaller interventions against Cuba, Guatemala, Panama, Grenada...etc
The US military has far been the world's largest aggressor since WW2. Now I know you can state most of these young ones do not know the actual history of their military because of poor education and american nationalist propaganda but another problem that stems is what another poster once called "military masturbation". America's fixation on it's military and propping them up to god-like status. Gushing like 12 year old girls over their next teen idol. Empty slogans about the reasons why they serve using terms like "protect" and "freedom". You use the terms dedication and service to country and countrymen but every country uses those terms for it's military, including the ones that you or your country's leaders deem evil. Even before Bush started the Iraq war I could see he was spouting BS. Many couldn't because of their nationalistic blindness. Part of that "blindness" is when the general population puts it's military above all.
Please tell me which country jepoardized your freedom. There are many reasons why you go to war but to secure your freedom is not one of them.The US has shed a lot of blood and tears for freedom all over the world. And would be right there for Canada so malcontents like you have the freedom to spew your hate.THe problem is the US completely ignores or sweeps under the rug the attrocities of their military. Look at how many people still defend the invasions of North Korea or Vietnam. The My Lai Massacre, the No Gun Ri Massacre, or the Gulf Of Tonkin incidents are sometimes completely ignored by US history books or manipulated by propaganda so that there is still support for these events still today. Yes we know Bush and his cronies lied to bring support to the war but this has been done in the past numerous times. Lies were spread about even the smaller interventions against Cuba, Guatemala, Panama, Grenada...etc
The US military has far been the world's largest aggressor since WW2. Now I know you can state most of these young ones do not know the actual history of their military because of poor education and american nationalist propaganda but another problem that stems is what another poster once called "military masturbation". America's fixation on it's military and propping them up to god-like status. Gushing like 12 year old girls over their next teen idol. Empty slogans about the reasons why they serve using terms like "protect" and "freedom". You use the terms dedication and service to country and countrymen but every country uses those terms for it's military, including the ones that you or your country's leaders deem evil. Even before Bush started the Iraq war I could see he was spouting BS. Many couldn't because of their nationalistic blindness. Part of that "blindness" is when the general population puts it's military above all.
"all the veterans"? I don't remember nominating you as my spokesman.You're partly right about the top brass. Obama, like Stalin and every good dictator, is purging the military of patriotic Generals and Admirals and high ranking officers. He's keeping his yes-men and coffee fetchers and defanging the military. But you can't attach any blame to the rank and file. All the veterans know what is happening but it won't happen long.
Germany, Japan, the USSR. I said we have helped free many others, did you miss that? South Korea probably prefers not to be part of North Korea. The cold war killed communism to a large extent in Russia and the USSR broke up. Sorry if that bothers you, eh.Please tell me which country jepoardized your freedom. There are many reasons why you go to war but to secure your freedom is not one of them.
OK You're dismissed."all the veterans"? I don't remember nominating you as my spokesman.You're partly right about the top brass. Obama, like Stalin and every good dictator, is purging the military of patriotic Generals and Admirals and high ranking officers. He's keeping his yes-men and coffee fetchers and defanging the military. But you can't attach any blame to the rank and file. All the veterans know what is happening but it won't happen long.
I just think they're dumb and move on.How would you feel if someone claimed you were not a vet as you claim?
I already stated since WW2 so Japan & Germany are nullified. As for the USSR, they were never threatening your freedom. The cold war was 2 war mongering countries that spent way too much money beefing up their military might. Money that would have been better used elsewhere. Cold War didn't kill communism, the people of the communist bloc countries killed communism themselves. As for South & North Korea, there conflict was the product of two super-powers trying to control them each with their own puppet governments. Anytime the US interfers in the Koreas the two get further apart.Germany, Japan, the USSR. I said we have helped free many others, did you miss that? South Korea probably prefers not to be part of North Korea. The cold war killed communism to a large extent in Russia and the USSR broke up. Sorry if that bothers you, eh.Please tell me which country jepoardized your freedom. There are many reasons why you go to war but to secure your freedom is not one of them.
