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I've seen countless liberals complain about the supposed "intel failures" that lead to Orlando.
There's no actual evidence of any "intel failures", though.
WTF? You have a 2nd gun dealer that alerted the FBI to this guy trying to purchase 1st rate body armor just 6 weeks before the killing. THAT -- doesn't reopen an FBI terrorist investigation??
His DAD probably should have been under surveillance as well given what we're finding out his Afghan allegiances.
I've seen countless liberals complain about the supposed "intel failures" that lead to Orlando.
There's no actual evidence of any "intel failures", though.
It not the intel failure but the reality they knew the guy was a threat and did not keep him under surveillance or worked on busting him for the threat he was.
They investigated him at least three times, and his statements and pledges made it clear he was unstable and the fact he had contact with a known terrorist made him a possible threat.
When there is smoke there most likely a blaze that could kill many.
The FBI need to do a better job and if the Congress has to allow the FBI to flag those people like the Orlando shooter while making sure the FBI has the resources and trained staff to investigate those like the Orlando shooter.
They investigated him 3 times - but they didn't find anything. Because he hadn't killed anyone yet.
He hadn't broken any laws at all until his first trigger pull.
Never gonna get legally solid evidence in surveillance. Don't NEED that standard of evidence to KEEP surveilling.
Those cases shouldn't just close because of bullshit "deadlines" to make a determination. Let the NSA follow THEM for a couple years. --- Not all of us...
I can't afford to be my normal liberal self on these issues because the government is so funking broken. If the FBI was COMPETENT -- I'd be a hell of a lot more liberal like you...............
You do now that these people think the government can do no wrong as long as Obama is president don't you?Remember when Democrats RIPPED into the intelligence community?? Oh I do. CIA. FBI. All of em. Especially with the WMD fiasco.
Well....honestly...the FBI dropped the ball big time. It's obvious.
Why aren't Dems knocking them again??? ALL they do is mention guns now. Not a peep about obvious Intel failures.
Because....they really really REALLY don't want to upset the FBI right now...
I've seen countless liberals complain about the supposed "intel failures" that lead to Orlando.
There's no actual evidence of any "intel failures", though.
WTF? You have a 2nd gun dealer that alerted the FBI to this guy trying to purchase 1st rate body armor just 6 weeks before the killing. THAT -- doesn't reopen an FBI terrorist investigation??
His DAD probably should have been under surveillance as well given what we're finding out his Afghan allegiances.
The FBI has no record of that "alert" ever happening - it's just the word of the gun store.
The store also didn't know his name when they "alerted" the FBI - and erased the CC tapes before the FBI could get them.
So, no. A supposed report with no specifics, no name, no description and no pictures does not automatically reopen an investigation.
I've seen countless liberals complain about the supposed "intel failures" that lead to Orlando.
There's no actual evidence of any "intel failures", though.
WTF? You have a 2nd gun dealer that alerted the FBI to this guy trying to purchase 1st rate body armor just 6 weeks before the killing. THAT -- doesn't reopen an FBI terrorist investigation??
His DAD probably should have been under surveillance as well given what we're finding out his Afghan allegiances.
The FBI has no record of that "alert" ever happening - it's just the word of the gun store.
The store also didn't know his name when they "alerted" the FBI - and erased the CC tapes before the FBI could get them.
So, no. A supposed report with no specifics, no name, no description and no pictures does not automatically reopen an investigation.
How many former terrorist cases live in Florida?
THey had a time date for a cell phone call..
Where was the "NSA surveillance" capability? In a foreign language??? Trust me --- for NSA that's a 10 sec database query...
It's too simple an excuse for not being interested.
I've seen countless liberals complain about the supposed "intel failures" that lead to Orlando.
There's no actual evidence of any "intel failures", though.
It not the intel failure but the reality they knew the guy was a threat and did not keep him under surveillance or worked on busting him for the threat he was.
They investigated him at least three times, and his statements and pledges made it clear he was unstable and the fact he had contact with a known terrorist made him a possible threat.
When there is smoke there most likely a blaze that could kill many.
The FBI need to do a better job and if the Congress has to allow the FBI to flag those people like the Orlando shooter while making sure the FBI has the resources and trained staff to investigate those like the Orlando shooter.
They investigated him 3 times - but they didn't find anything. Because he hadn't killed anyone yet.
He hadn't broken any laws at all until his first trigger pull.
Never gonna get legally solid evidence in surveillance. Don't NEED that standard of evidence to KEEP surveilling.
Those cases shouldn't just close because of bullshit "deadlines" to make a determination. Let the NSA follow THEM for a couple years. --- Not all of us...
I can't afford to be my normal liberal self on these issues because the government is so funking broken. If the FBI was COMPETENT -- I'd be a hell of a lot more liberal like you...............
There are over a million people on the "terror watch list".
There aren't enough FBI agents in this country to keep surveillance on all of them.
Hindsight is 20-20.
I've seen countless liberals complain about the supposed "intel failures" that lead to Orlando.
There's no actual evidence of any "intel failures", though.
WTF? You have a 2nd gun dealer that alerted the FBI to this guy trying to purchase 1st rate body armor just 6 weeks before the killing. THAT -- doesn't reopen an FBI terrorist investigation??
His DAD probably should have been under surveillance as well given what we're finding out his Afghan allegiances.
The FBI has no record of that "alert" ever happening - it's just the word of the gun store.
The store also didn't know his name when they "alerted" the FBI - and erased the CC tapes before the FBI could get them.
So, no. A supposed report with no specifics, no name, no description and no pictures does not automatically reopen an investigation.
How many former terrorist cases live in Florida?
What do you mean by "former terrorist cases"? If you mean "people on the watch list", likely thousands.
THey had a time date for a cell phone call..
What do you mean? I'm not sure I understand.
Where was the "NSA surveillance" capability? In a foreign language??? Trust me --- for NSA that's a 10 sec database query...
What would "NSA surveillance" have turned up? There's no evidence he shared his plans with anyone but his wife.
It's too simple an excuse for not being interested.
It retrospect, it's easy to say what should have happened.
I've seen countless liberals complain about the supposed "intel failures" that lead to Orlando.
There's no actual evidence of any "intel failures", though.
It not the intel failure but the reality they knew the guy was a threat and did not keep him under surveillance or worked on busting him for the threat he was.
They investigated him at least three times, and his statements and pledges made it clear he was unstable and the fact he had contact with a known terrorist made him a possible threat.
When there is smoke there most likely a blaze that could kill many.
The FBI need to do a better job and if the Congress has to allow the FBI to flag those people like the Orlando shooter while making sure the FBI has the resources and trained staff to investigate those like the Orlando shooter.
They investigated him 3 times - but they didn't find anything. Because he hadn't killed anyone yet.
He hadn't broken any laws at all until his first trigger pull.
Never gonna get legally solid evidence in surveillance. Don't NEED that standard of evidence to KEEP surveilling.
Those cases shouldn't just close because of bullshit "deadlines" to make a determination. Let the NSA follow THEM for a couple years. --- Not all of us...
I can't afford to be my normal liberal self on these issues because the government is so funking broken. If the FBI was COMPETENT -- I'd be a hell of a lot more liberal like you...............
There are over a million people on the "terror watch list".
There aren't enough FBI agents in this country to keep surveillance on all of them.
Hindsight is 20-20.
It's not hindsight to suggest that maybe there should be TWO million on it. And that a more competent agency be found to run it. Any eleven month investigation should never be completely closed. Those folks should be on surveillance for several years.
When Mateen deeded his house to his family for $10 ---- that might have been all they needed...
Quit fucking with my 10 amendments and grow some competency in government. The ONLY bastion of competency in the ENTIRE US government is NSA ---- and they should NEVER have been unleashed on domestic operations.. It's broken. And I can't afford to be patient or understanding anymore..
I've seen countless liberals complain about the supposed "intel failures" that lead to Orlando.
There's no actual evidence of any "intel failures", though.
WTF? You have a 2nd gun dealer that alerted the FBI to this guy trying to purchase 1st rate body armor just 6 weeks before the killing. THAT -- doesn't reopen an FBI terrorist investigation??
His DAD probably should have been under surveillance as well given what we're finding out his Afghan allegiances.
The FBI has no record of that "alert" ever happening - it's just the word of the gun store.
The store also didn't know his name when they "alerted" the FBI - and erased the CC tapes before the FBI could get them.
So, no. A supposed report with no specifics, no name, no description and no pictures does not automatically reopen an investigation.
How many former terrorist cases live in Florida?
What do you mean by "former terrorist cases"? If you mean "people on the watch list", likely thousands.
THey had a time date for a cell phone call..
What do you mean? I'm not sure I understand.
Where was the "NSA surveillance" capability? In a foreign language??? Trust me --- for NSA that's a 10 sec database query...
What would "NSA surveillance" have turned up? There's no evidence he shared his plans with anyone but his wife.
It's too simple an excuse for not being interested.
It retrospect, it's easy to say what should have happened.
Testimony from the shop owner that he pulled away from the counter to have an agitated phone call in a foreign language. Snap for the capabilities at NSA to find that call..
It not the intel failure but the reality they knew the guy was a threat and did not keep him under surveillance or worked on busting him for the threat he was.
They investigated him at least three times, and his statements and pledges made it clear he was unstable and the fact he had contact with a known terrorist made him a possible threat.
When there is smoke there most likely a blaze that could kill many.
The FBI need to do a better job and if the Congress has to allow the FBI to flag those people like the Orlando shooter while making sure the FBI has the resources and trained staff to investigate those like the Orlando shooter.
They investigated him 3 times - but they didn't find anything. Because he hadn't killed anyone yet.
He hadn't broken any laws at all until his first trigger pull.
Never gonna get legally solid evidence in surveillance. Don't NEED that standard of evidence to KEEP surveilling.
Those cases shouldn't just close because of bullshit "deadlines" to make a determination. Let the NSA follow THEM for a couple years. --- Not all of us...
I can't afford to be my normal liberal self on these issues because the government is so funking broken. If the FBI was COMPETENT -- I'd be a hell of a lot more liberal like you...............
There are over a million people on the "terror watch list".
There aren't enough FBI agents in this country to keep surveillance on all of them.
Hindsight is 20-20.
It's not hindsight to suggest that maybe there should be TWO million on it. And that a more competent agency be found to run it. Any eleven month investigation should never be completely closed. Those folks should be on surveillance for several years.
When Mateen deeded his house to his family for $10 ---- that might have been all they needed...
Quit fucking with my 10 amendments and grow some competency in government. The ONLY bastion of competency in the ENTIRE US government is NSA ---- and they should NEVER have been unleashed on domestic operations.. It's broken. And I can't afford to be patient or understanding anymore..
You're saying that there should be 2 million FBI agents investigating the "watch list"?
There are currently less than 15,000 FBI Special Agents. How do you suggest we pay for expanding the FBI nearly 200-fold?
They investigated him 3 times - but they didn't find anything. Because he hadn't killed anyone yet.
He hadn't broken any laws at all until his first trigger pull.
Never gonna get legally solid evidence in surveillance. Don't NEED that standard of evidence to KEEP surveilling.
Those cases shouldn't just close because of bullshit "deadlines" to make a determination. Let the NSA follow THEM for a couple years. --- Not all of us...
I can't afford to be my normal liberal self on these issues because the government is so funking broken. If the FBI was COMPETENT -- I'd be a hell of a lot more liberal like you...............
There are over a million people on the "terror watch list".
There aren't enough FBI agents in this country to keep surveillance on all of them.
Hindsight is 20-20.
It's not hindsight to suggest that maybe there should be TWO million on it. And that a more competent agency be found to run it. Any eleven month investigation should never be completely closed. Those folks should be on surveillance for several years.
When Mateen deeded his house to his family for $10 ---- that might have been all they needed...
Quit fucking with my 10 amendments and grow some competency in government. The ONLY bastion of competency in the ENTIRE US government is NSA ---- and they should NEVER have been unleashed on domestic operations.. It's broken. And I can't afford to be patient or understanding anymore..
You're saying that there should be 2 million FBI agents investigating the "watch list"?
There are currently less than 15,000 FBI Special Agents. How do you suggest we pay for expanding the FBI nearly 200-fold?
That's the OLD FBI.. The ones that wouldn'tt give up their teletypes and forms and rolodex and rotary phones. You don't NEED 2 million agents. You need automation and machine intelligence.
Not joking man. I spent 7 years in the spy biz. And we were lightyears ahead of the gumshoe FBI back in the late 80s...
WTF? You have a 2nd gun dealer that alerted the FBI to this guy trying to purchase 1st rate body armor just 6 weeks before the killing. THAT -- doesn't reopen an FBI terrorist investigation??
His DAD probably should have been under surveillance as well given what we're finding out his Afghan allegiances.
The FBI has no record of that "alert" ever happening - it's just the word of the gun store.
The store also didn't know his name when they "alerted" the FBI - and erased the CC tapes before the FBI could get them.
So, no. A supposed report with no specifics, no name, no description and no pictures does not automatically reopen an investigation.
How many former terrorist cases live in Florida?
What do you mean by "former terrorist cases"? If you mean "people on the watch list", likely thousands.
THey had a time date for a cell phone call..
What do you mean? I'm not sure I understand.
Where was the "NSA surveillance" capability? In a foreign language??? Trust me --- for NSA that's a 10 sec database query...
What would "NSA surveillance" have turned up? There's no evidence he shared his plans with anyone but his wife.
It's too simple an excuse for not being interested.
It retrospect, it's easy to say what should have happened.
Testimony from the shop owner that he pulled away from the counter to have an agitated phone call in a foreign language. Snap for the capabilities at NSA to find that call..
Why would they have spent so much time and energy investigating something that wasn't actually a crime? How would they have gotten a warrant to access the cell tower records?
It's not a crime to try to buy ammo and body armor, even if the customer is "creepy", and speaks a foreign language.
You are expecting way too much from the government.
Never gonna get legally solid evidence in surveillance. Don't NEED that standard of evidence to KEEP surveilling.
Those cases shouldn't just close because of bullshit "deadlines" to make a determination. Let the NSA follow THEM for a couple years. --- Not all of us...
I can't afford to be my normal liberal self on these issues because the government is so funking broken. If the FBI was COMPETENT -- I'd be a hell of a lot more liberal like you...............
There are over a million people on the "terror watch list".
There aren't enough FBI agents in this country to keep surveillance on all of them.
Hindsight is 20-20.
It's not hindsight to suggest that maybe there should be TWO million on it. And that a more competent agency be found to run it. Any eleven month investigation should never be completely closed. Those folks should be on surveillance for several years.
When Mateen deeded his house to his family for $10 ---- that might have been all they needed...
Quit fucking with my 10 amendments and grow some competency in government. The ONLY bastion of competency in the ENTIRE US government is NSA ---- and they should NEVER have been unleashed on domestic operations.. It's broken. And I can't afford to be patient or understanding anymore..
You're saying that there should be 2 million FBI agents investigating the "watch list"?
There are currently less than 15,000 FBI Special Agents. How do you suggest we pay for expanding the FBI nearly 200-fold?
That's the OLD FBI.. The ones that wouldn'tt give up their teletypes and forms and rolodex and rotary phones. You don't NEED 2 million agents. You need automation and machine intelligence.
Not joking man. I spent 7 years in the spy biz. And we were lightyears ahead of the gumshoe FBI back in the late 80s...
Tell you a little story that was funny and my brother would say stupid nonsense to me over the cellphone and one day I told him to quit because the government might be recording this. The following year the NSA scandal broke and my brother was so worry he was targeted for his stupid jokes...
I told him if they thought he was a threat he would have been already contacted...
The FBI failed...
There are over a million people on the "terror watch list".
There aren't enough FBI agents in this country to keep surveillance on all of them.
Hindsight is 20-20.
It's not hindsight to suggest that maybe there should be TWO million on it. And that a more competent agency be found to run it. Any eleven month investigation should never be completely closed. Those folks should be on surveillance for several years.
When Mateen deeded his house to his family for $10 ---- that might have been all they needed...
Quit fucking with my 10 amendments and grow some competency in government. The ONLY bastion of competency in the ENTIRE US government is NSA ---- and they should NEVER have been unleashed on domestic operations.. It's broken. And I can't afford to be patient or understanding anymore..
You're saying that there should be 2 million FBI agents investigating the "watch list"?
There are currently less than 15,000 FBI Special Agents. How do you suggest we pay for expanding the FBI nearly 200-fold?
That's the OLD FBI.. The ones that wouldn'tt give up their teletypes and forms and rolodex and rotary phones. You don't NEED 2 million agents. You need automation and machine intelligence.
Not joking man. I spent 7 years in the spy biz. And we were lightyears ahead of the gumshoe FBI back in the late 80s...
Tell you a little story that was funny and my brother would say stupid nonsense to me over the cellphone and one day I told him to quit because the government might be recording this. The following year the NSA scandal broke and my brother was so worry he was targeted for his stupid jokes...
I told him if they thought he was a threat he would have been already contacted...
The FBI failed...
You don't think I sometimes think TWICE about my 40,000 posts on USMB?? Or the hate sites I have to visit doing mod duty? They'd have a freaking field day on me. Especially when they find my bio and previous employment and clearances.
Remember when Democrats RIPPED into the intelligence community?? Oh I do. CIA. FBI. All of em. Especially with the WMD fiasco.
Well....honestly...the FBI dropped the ball big time. It's obvious.
Why aren't Dems knocking them again??? ALL they do is mention guns now. Not a peep about obvious Intel failures.
Because....they really really REALLY don't want to upset the FBI right now...
Remember when Democrats RIPPED into the intelligence community?? Oh I do. CIA. FBI. All of em. Especially with the WMD fiasco.
Well....honestly...the FBI dropped the ball big time. It's obvious.
Why aren't Dems knocking them again??? ALL they do is mention guns now. Not a peep about obvious Intel failures.
Because....they really really REALLY don't want to upset the FBI right now...
another reason to laugh at you. We’ll add it to the multitude….
The FBI didn’t drop the ball; they followed our flawed laws that virtually allow anyone to buy as many weapons as they or their ISIS handlers can afford.
The reason for focusing on guns is simple.
We have disgruntled white folks who shoot up black churches, who blow up buildings, blow up abortion clinics, drive their trucks into hotels, shoot clerks at the Waffle House for doing nothing at all.
We have disgruntled people of middle eastern lineage who shoot up night clubs, community centers, and hijack planes into buildings.
If you take guns away from those who shoot but black churches, shoot up clerks, shoot up night clubs, or community centers…then you just have disgruntled people who may or may not escalate to higher body counts. Most often though…they simply put their hands into their pocket and walk by the church, by the night club, by the community center, by the Planned Parenthood site, by the theater etc…
Nothing will prevent all rampage shootings or killings.
I never said they did. I agree with you. He wasn't on the list. And he was allowed to go on his merry way. If you're questioned twice (I heard 3 times) by the FBI, there should be some sort of probable cause to have increased scrutiny of that individual in my opinion. Therefore I called our laws "flawed".Remember when Democrats RIPPED into the intelligence community?? Oh I do. CIA. FBI. All of em. Especially with the WMD fiasco.
Well....honestly...the FBI dropped the ball big time. It's obvious.
Why aren't Dems knocking them again??? ALL they do is mention guns now. Not a peep about obvious Intel failures.
Because....they really really REALLY don't want to upset the FBI right now...
another reason to laugh at you. We’ll add it to the multitude….
The FBI didn’t drop the ball; they followed our flawed laws that virtually allow anyone to buy as many weapons as they or their ISIS handlers can afford.
The reason for focusing on guns is simple.
We have disgruntled white folks who shoot up black churches, who blow up buildings, blow up abortion clinics, drive their trucks into hotels, shoot clerks at the Waffle House for doing nothing at all.
We have disgruntled people of middle eastern lineage who shoot up night clubs, community centers, and hijack planes into buildings.
If you take guns away from those who shoot but black churches, shoot up clerks, shoot up night clubs, or community centers…then you just have disgruntled people who may or may not escalate to higher body counts. Most often though…they simply put their hands into their pocket and walk by the church, by the night club, by the community center, by the Planned Parenthood site, by the theater etc…
Nothing will prevent all rampage shootings or killings.
You are obviously confused about a couple of things. The Orlando perp was NOT on the terrorist list. They closed him out 2 or 3 times and without any further surveillance. So "the laws" haven't put guns into terrorist hands. Not even in the San Bernadino case since that was an illegal transfer.
I'm sure the victims are appreciating the difference. To quote Sun Tzu, "Kill one, terrorize a thousand". You don't think the movie goers in Colorado, church goers in SC, or those who went to UT after Whitman did his thing from the tower were not terrorized--regardless of the goal of Root, Whitman (or the guy in Colorado whose name escapes me at this point in time)?Secondly -- most of the incidents you mentioned are CRIMES -- not terrorism. Funny that leftists who like to believe they can just sniff out HATE crimes --- seem to have proclivities for separating radical Islamic terrorism from crime,.
You'd have to support that with evidence to convince me.The FBI has dropped the ball REPEATEDLY on terrorism attacks. Like Boston or Orlando.. Ft Hood should not have been a surprise if political correctness didn't run amok in the Army. And if you are closing interesting FBI cases because of "time limits" instead of continuing to surveill these people, they are gonna continue to miss clues and evidence.
Maybe it IS a bit weird that we don't get torqued out of shape over "crimes" -- but we do when it's "terrorism". I think we should declare war on Chicago gangs. But that's not in the political cards. It takes more lives in a month than most "muslim terrorists" take in a year. But that would be racist and bigoted also I suppose..
Firearm sell themselves… BecauseI've never heard of anyone trying not to kill someone by pushing them out of bed. Your gun sales must be aweful. You spend all day on a message board.Less people are killed by someone using a ar15...There are even fewer homicides by pushing someone out of bed.The fact is very few people Are killed by someone using an ar15...What is the stat for homicides committed by pushing someone out of bed?
Nice try your deflection did not work
The key phrase, people kill not guns. I've never heard of an AR 15 chasing someone down the street and kill them...
