Socialism Creates Poverty

[Clementine]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

Of course, the die hard leftists will claim that it would work if the entire world were ruled by one dictatorship. They don't possess the intelligence to see where their own policies fail and choose to blame others for their own plans never working out.

Besides, those that rule over the people want for nothing. Chavez continued living like a king and remains the envy of the leftist airheads. I suspect that when liberal politicians dream about socialism, they imagine themselves as the next Chavez, not the part of the masses controlled by a dictator.

 

[occupied]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

Of course, the die hard leftists will claim that it would work if the entire world were ruled by one dictatorship. They don't possess the intelligence to see where their own policies fail and choose to blame others for their own plans never working out.

Besides, those that rule over the people want for nothing. Chavez continued living like a king and remains the envy of the leftist airheads. I suspect that when liberal politicians dream about socialism, they imagine themselves as the next Chavez, not the part of the masses controlled by a dictator.

How then do you explain authoritarianism, administrative ineptitude and poverty in countries where they allow western companies in to exploit people and resources to their heart's desire?

 

[The Rabbi]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

The Murdoch Street Journal strikes again.

Wow....you must watch fox alot

^^Lacks content.

 

[The Rabbi]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

Poverty exists in every system. Would say though that capitalism is the system poverty crops up in the most since any system based on greed and selfishness, as capitalism is, is going to see takers take and those too polite or kind to take from other suffer and become empoverished.

Sucky as that is, I don't think there's a better way of doing things.

Our poverty is upper middle class elsewhere.

That's a big talking point from the Right. Denying that the US has poor people.

The average poor person in America has at least one car, his own apartment with running water. a television, a cell phone and more calories per day than people who are truly poor get in a week.
If it's true is it still a talking point?

 

[The Rabbi]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

Of course, the die hard leftists will claim that it would work if the entire world were ruled by one dictatorship. They don't possess the intelligence to see where their own policies fail and choose to blame others for their own plans never working out.

Besides, those that rule over the people want for nothing. Chavez continued living like a king and remains the envy of the leftist airheads. I suspect that when liberal politicians dream about socialism, they imagine themselves as the next Chavez, not the part of the masses controlled by a dictator.

How then do you explain authoritarianism, administrative ineptitude and poverty in countries where they allow western companies in to exploit people and resources to their heart's desire?

Please list those countries.
Typically whatever exploitation occurs happens because the ruling elite demand bribes and other considerations from the multinationals and then stash the money in Switzerland.
Just what Dems would like to do here.

 

[bripat9643]

The Taiping Rebellion during the 19th century killed 20 million Chinese before Karl Marx put a single word to paper.

Yeah....it is the 70 million mao murdered that concerns communism...not the Taiping rebellion...

and the 25 million stalin murdered...

and 1/3 of the population that pol pot murdered....

and on and on...

Okay, besides the fact those numbers aren't even close to what is presented.... (Poor Old Stalin gets credit for people who died in famines.)

He created the famine deliberately, you fucking moron.

America complete genocided the Native Americans. Wiped out entire nations. Can we chalk that up to "Capitalism is Evil?"

Infectious diseases wipe out most of the Indians. Name one civilization that didn't expand into the territory of neighbouring more primitive societies. Certainly not the Russians or the Chinese or the British.

All three of those countries had civil wars that were pretty brutal before the Communists took over. For instance, the US bombed the shit out of Cambodia, driving millions of people from their homes and into the arms of the Khmer Rogue.

ROFL! Yeah, that's what the commie loving scumbag Noam Chomsky used as an excuse for murdering 1/3 of the population.

 

[The Rabbi]

The Taiping Rebellion during the 19th century killed 20 million Chinese before Karl Marx put a single word to paper.

Yeah....it is the 70 million mao murdered that concerns communism...not the Taiping rebellion...

and the 25 million stalin murdered...

and 1/3 of the population that pol pot murdered....

and on and on...

Okay, besides the fact those numbers aren't even close to what is presented.... (Poor Old Stalin gets credit for people who died in famines.)

He created the famine deliberately, you fucking moron.

America complete genocided the Native Americans. Wiped out entire nations. Can we chalk that up to "Capitalism is Evil?"

Infectious diseases wipe out most of the Indians. Name one civilization that didn't expand into the territory of neighbouring more primitive societies. Certainly not the Russians or the Chinese or the British.

All three of those countries had civil wars that were pretty brutal before the Communists took over. For instance, the US bombed the shit out of Cambodia, driving millions of people from their homes and into the arms of the Khmer Rogue.

ROFL! Yeah, that's what the commie loving scumbag Noam Chomsky used as an excuse for murdering 1/3 of the population.

You'll have to excuse Joe. He never progressed beyond 4th grade so he has to fill in the gaps of his knowledge with imagination.

 

[bripat9643]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

The Murdoch Street Journal strikes again.

Wow....you must watch fox alot

The article is correct. Venezuela has been having shortages in basics for some time.

What they have been doing is what statists have been doing for decades. They create inflation, demonize capitalists for their own incompetence, implement price controls, then shortages appear. That has happened in Latin America over and over again for decades.

What has actually happened in Latin America is what has happened everywhere in the developing world. There is great power in such places in using populism as a political tool, which is fine, but as soon as some leader actually moves in the direction of socialism the capitalist world with America in the lead does everything in their power to undermine them up to and including assassination. It is actually unknown how socialism works because it has never been allowed to operate unhampered on any scale that matters. From a purely scientific standpoint no socialist experiment has ever been properly done, any example of socialist economic failure must also include what was done in opposition.

So you think capitalism has been allowed to operate unhampered? Really?

 

[occupied]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

Of course, the die hard leftists will claim that it would work if the entire world were ruled by one dictatorship. They don't possess the intelligence to see where their own policies fail and choose to blame others for their own plans never working out.

Besides, those that rule over the people want for nothing. Chavez continued living like a king and remains the envy of the leftist airheads. I suspect that when liberal politicians dream about socialism, they imagine themselves as the next Chavez, not the part of the masses controlled by a dictator.

How then do you explain authoritarianism, administrative ineptitude and poverty in countries where they allow western companies in to exploit people and resources to their heart's desire?

Please list those countries.
Typically whatever exploitation occurs happens because the ruling elite demand bribes and other considerations from the multinationals and then stash the money in Switzerland.
Just what Dems would like to do here.

Fail, political "cooperation" with big money has a long and proud tradition in capitalist history. It can be argued that big business could not exist without having some measure of political control in the places it operates.

 

[bripat9643]

One reason killings weren't on a massive scale was it was too difficult. I mean it takes weapons that can do the job quickly and
efficiently before people tire of the job. Chopping off heads hour after hour can get to be a real bore.

Stalin's victims sent to the Gulag weren't killed by bullets. They were killed by starvation, overwork and exposure.

 

[The Rabbi]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

Of course, the die hard leftists will claim that it would work if the entire world were ruled by one dictatorship. They don't possess the intelligence to see where their own policies fail and choose to blame others for their own plans never working out.

Besides, those that rule over the people want for nothing. Chavez continued living like a king and remains the envy of the leftist airheads. I suspect that when liberal politicians dream about socialism, they imagine themselves as the next Chavez, not the part of the masses controlled by a dictator.

How then do you explain authoritarianism, administrative ineptitude and poverty in countries where they allow western companies in to exploit people and resources to their heart's desire?

Please list those countries.
Typically whatever exploitation occurs happens because the ruling elite demand bribes and other considerations from the multinationals and then stash the money in Switzerland.
Just what Dems would like to do here.

Fail, political "cooperation" with big money has a long and proud tradition in capitalist history. It can be argued that big business could not exist without having some measure of political control in the places it operates.

Post fail.
Failure to support your earlier post with specific examples.
Failure to do anything other than sling unsupported generalities.
It could be argued you were dropped on your head as an infant.

 

[occupied]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

Of course, the die hard leftists will claim that it would work if the entire world were ruled by one dictatorship. They don't possess the intelligence to see where their own policies fail and choose to blame others for their own plans never working out.

Besides, those that rule over the people want for nothing. Chavez continued living like a king and remains the envy of the leftist airheads. I suspect that when liberal politicians dream about socialism, they imagine themselves as the next Chavez, not the part of the masses controlled by a dictator.

How then do you explain authoritarianism, administrative ineptitude and poverty in countries where they allow western companies in to exploit people and resources to their heart's desire?

Please list those countries.
Typically whatever exploitation occurs happens because the ruling elite demand bribes and other considerations from the multinationals and then stash the money in Switzerland.
Just what Dems would like to do here.

Fail, political "cooperation" with big money has a long and proud tradition in capitalist history. It can be argued that big business could not exist without having some measure of political control in the places it operates.

Post fail.
Failure to support your earlier post with specific examples.
Failure to do anything other than sling unsupported generalities.
It could be argued you were dropped on your head as an infant.

Venezuela is a good example in itself, Chavez could never have been so successful in his populist quest if petroleum and mining operations there had been doing anything except stealing the wealth of a nation without doing anything to make it a better place. Just a look at the mining operations on google earth shows what happens when irresponsible capitalists team up with a cooperative government. Strip mining about ruined the place.

 

[bripat9643]

Of course, the die hard leftists will claim that it would work if the entire world were ruled by one dictatorship. They don't possess the intelligence to see where their own policies fail and choose to blame others for their own plans never working out.

Besides, those that rule over the people want for nothing. Chavez continued living like a king and remains the envy of the leftist airheads. I suspect that when liberal politicians dream about socialism, they imagine themselves as the next Chavez, not the part of the masses controlled by a dictator.

How then do you explain authoritarianism, administrative ineptitude and poverty in countries where they allow western companies in to exploit people and resources to their heart's desire?

Please list those countries.
Typically whatever exploitation occurs happens because the ruling elite demand bribes and other considerations from the multinationals and then stash the money in Switzerland.
Just what Dems would like to do here.

Fail, political "cooperation" with big money has a long and proud tradition in capitalist history. It can be argued that big business could not exist without having some measure of political control in the places it operates.

Post fail.
Failure to support your earlier post with specific examples.
Failure to do anything other than sling unsupported generalities.
It could be argued you were dropped on your head as an infant.

Venezuela is a good example in itself, Chavez could never have been so successful in his populist quest if petroleum and mining operations there had been doing anything except stealing the wealth of a nation without doing anything to make it a better place. Just a look at the mining operations on google earth shows what happens when irresponsible capitalists team up with a cooperative government. Strip mining about ruined the place.

What do you imagine happens?

 

[Toro]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

The Murdoch Street Journal strikes again.

Wow....you must watch fox alot

The article is correct. Venezuela has been having shortages in basics for some time.

What they have been doing is what statists have been doing for decades. They create inflation, demonize capitalists for their own incompetence, implement price controls, then shortages appear. That has happened in Latin America over and over again for decades.

What has actually happened in Latin America is what has happened everywhere in the developing world. There is great power in such places in using populism as a political tool, which is fine, but as soon as some leader actually moves in the direction of socialism the capitalist world with America in the lead does everything in their power to undermine them up to and including assassination. It is actually unknown how socialism works because it has never been allowed to operate unhampered on any scale that matters. From a purely scientific standpoint no socialist experiment has ever been properly done, any example of socialist economic failure must also include what was done in opposition.

Venezuela is a basket case because of their own incompetence. Their policies have been tried over and over and over again, and the results are always the same. Blaming it on "assassination" is idiotic. It's not a serious response. It's why these countries get so fucked up - they are clueless.

As for socialism never working, get out of the class room. The same thing can be said of capitalism. What matters is the real world, not some wonk's theoretical definition.

 

[The Rabbi]

Of course, the die hard leftists will claim that it would work if the entire world were ruled by one dictatorship. They don't possess the intelligence to see where their own policies fail and choose to blame others for their own plans never working out.

Besides, those that rule over the people want for nothing. Chavez continued living like a king and remains the envy of the leftist airheads. I suspect that when liberal politicians dream about socialism, they imagine themselves as the next Chavez, not the part of the masses controlled by a dictator.

How then do you explain authoritarianism, administrative ineptitude and poverty in countries where they allow western companies in to exploit people and resources to their heart's desire?

Please list those countries.
Typically whatever exploitation occurs happens because the ruling elite demand bribes and other considerations from the multinationals and then stash the money in Switzerland.
Just what Dems would like to do here.

Fail, political "cooperation" with big money has a long and proud tradition in capitalist history. It can be argued that big business could not exist without having some measure of political control in the places it operates.

Post fail.
Failure to support your earlier post with specific examples.
Failure to do anything other than sling unsupported generalities.
It could be argued you were dropped on your head as an infant.

Venezuela is a good example in itself, Chavez could never have been so successful in his populist quest if petroleum and mining operations there had been doing anything except stealing the wealth of a nation without doing anything to make it a better place. Just a look at the mining operations on google earth shows what happens when irresponsible capitalists team up with a cooperative government. Strip mining about ruined the place.

Chavez nationalized the oil companies in 2003, lamebrain. Look at what happened to oil production after that.\
Venezuela Crude Oil Production by Year Thousand Barrels per Day

 

[occupied]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

The Murdoch Street Journal strikes again.

Wow....you must watch fox alot

The article is correct. Venezuela has been having shortages in basics for some time.

What they have been doing is what statists have been doing for decades. They create inflation, demonize capitalists for their own incompetence, implement price controls, then shortages appear. That has happened in Latin America over and over again for decades.

What has actually happened in Latin America is what has happened everywhere in the developing world. There is great power in such places in using populism as a political tool, which is fine, but as soon as some leader actually moves in the direction of socialism the capitalist world with America in the lead does everything in their power to undermine them up to and including assassination. It is actually unknown how socialism works because it has never been allowed to operate unhampered on any scale that matters. From a purely scientific standpoint no socialist experiment has ever been properly done, any example of socialist economic failure must also include what was done in opposition.

Venezuela is a basket case because of their own incompetence. Their policies have been tried over and over and over again, and the results are always the same. Blaming it on "assassination" is idiotic. It's not a serious response. It's why these countries get so fucked up - they are clueless.

As for socialism never working, get out of the class room. The same thing can be said of capitalism. What matters is the real world, not some wonk's theoretical definition.

You are correct in looking at what works in the real world, so am I. In the real world populism gets crushed as a threat to the elite. In the real world a carefully maintained balance of socialism and capitalism works well but when things get out of balance there is always the chance that things will pendulum all the way back the other way. Nationalistic socialism is NOT a good system any more than Fascistic capitalism and yet they often follow one another until a balance is finally struck. I am not a zealot for socialism but I do see it as a necessary thing to promote stability in a nation and wonder how capitalist zealots can think a nation could survive without it.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Socialism creates terror states. Progressives have murdered more than 100 million innocent souls since 1917, probably 150 million according to the late R.J. Rummel, political science professor at Yale, and professor emeritus of the political science department at the University of Hawaii. Rummel is famous for introducing the word "democide" into the political science lexicon.

Frustrated that Western academia concentrated almost exclusively on the Holocaust for its finger-pointing and hand-wringing, to the exclusion of more than 100 million other victims of despots, democide was almost universally defined by political scientists as "murder by government". Rummel found the word "genocide" as defined by the United Nations, far too limiting to grasp the almost unfathomable scope of government-sanctioned mass murder in the century past. Democide also came to mean "murder by government stupidity", like Mao's war against the sparrows that cost 32 million lives in the famine that followed.

At the University of Hawaii link provided, you can see more than fifty years of Rummel's research collated into humanity's butcher's bill. The numbers are hard to believe. He determined that six times as many lives were taken by governments in the century past, as people who died in all the wars of the century past. Victims include political opponents, suspected political opponents, religious opponents, academics, the mentally ill, the physically disabled, homosexuals, the outspoken, and several other categories that some government might pigeon hole people for the sake of justifying for their murder. At the time of his death in his mid 80's, Rummel had spent the previous 12 years working with Chinese academics on the communist butcher's bill in that country. Like I said, the numbers are hard to believe.

R.J. Rummel

 

[Political Junky]

Venezuela's Chavez was a big hero of the Left here. He came in with a program of Hope and Change that involved every leftist's wet dream: punish the rich, nationalize industry, screw the big corporations.
How'd that work out?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/despite-riches-venezuela-starts-food-rationing-1414025667
The country is out of basic necessities. Every adverse event was followed by more and stricter government controls. These in turn led to more problems. Price controls led to people diverting toilet paper across the border.
You cannot legislate laws of economics out of existence. Which is what the left here wants.

Poverty exists in every system. Would say though that capitalism is the system poverty crops up in the most since any system based on greed and selfishness, as capitalism is, is going to see takers take and those too polite or kind to take from other suffer and become empoverished.

Sucky as that is, I don't think there's a better way of doing things.

Our poverty is upper middle class elsewhere.

That's a big talking point from the Right. Denying that the US has poor people.

The average poor person in America has at least one car, his own apartment with running water. a television, a cell phone and more calories per day than people who are truly poor get in a week.
If it's true is it still a talking point?

Why does the Right think they can make up stuff and be believed?

 

[2aguy]

according to the late R.J. Rummel,

I read his book on Democide...great book....

 

[JoeB131]

ROFL! Yeah, that's what the commie loving scumbag Noam Chomsky used as an excuse for murdering 1/3 of the population.

I don't think Noam was anywhere in the area. But here was the problem. Cambodia was nuetral and Norodom Sihanhouk did his best to keep it that way. But the US decided to sponsor a coup and then bomb the shit out of the Eastern part of the country, which gave a willing and able army to the Khmer Rogue.

and when they did win, they took it out on the losers. That's what happens in civil wars. The winners make the losers their bitch.