Speaking of gun control, it's time to weaken the definition of felony

[ShootSpeeders]

Ffederal law says anyone with a felony conviction cannot have a gun and a felony is defined as any crime for which you COULD (not did but could) have gotten a year or more in prison. That is an extremely low bar and should be raised to 5 or maybe 10 years.

This would make a good negotiating point. The right could say "Okay we will extend criminal background checks to private sales if you accept raising the felony definition to 10 years."

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Ffederal law says anyone with a felony conviction cannot have a gun and a felony is defined as any crime for which you COULD (not did but could) have gotten a year or more in prison. That is an extremely low bar and should be raised to 5 or maybe 10 years.

This would make a good negotiating point. The right could say "Okay we will extend criminal background checks to private sales if you accept raising the felony definition to 10 years."

Anyone convicted of a crime of violence or who is not a citizen of the United States should NOT be permitted to purchase a firearm or vote under any circumstances, ever.

 

[pismoe]

Ffederal law says anyone with a felony conviction cannot have a gun and a felony is defined as any crime for which you COULD (not did but could) have gotten a year or more in prison. That is an extremely low bar and should be raised to 5 or maybe 10 years.

This would make a good negotiating point. The right could say "Okay we will extend criminal background checks to private sales if you accept raising the felony definition to 10 years."

I'm more in line with Billys thinking , felony crime of violence and can't have a gun but that doesn't include giving your brother or friend a black eye . I'm talking 'lautenberg' where getting in a fight with your brother and then your Mom calls the cops and you lose your gun RIGHTS for a domestic violence misdemeanor . REAL Violence and you lose your gun RIGHTS is ok with me but I'd prefer they stay in jail for rape , murder , molestation and other REAL violence .

 

[pismoe]

and I do think that non violent so called felons should be FREE after release from incarceration .

 

[Mr. H.]

How about changing the law to allow "warning shots"?

Woman jailed for 20 years freed to spend two years under house arrest

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

How about changing the law to allow "warning shots"?

Woman jailed for 20 years freed to spend two years under house arrest

I would never give a warning shot. If I draw a weapon, it's for a reason.

 

[Mr. H.]

How about changing the law to allow "warning shots"?

Woman jailed for 20 years freed to spend two years under house arrest

I would never give a warning shot. If I draw a weapon, it's for a reason.

Good point. In my concealed carry class, we were instructed to not draw our weapon unless it was a last resort and that our intent was to permanently stop a threat to our lives or the lives of others.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

How about changing the law to allow "warning shots"?

Woman jailed for 20 years freed to spend two years under house arrest

I would never give a warning shot. If I draw a weapon, it's for a reason.

Good point. In my concealed carry class, we were instructed to not draw our weapon unless it was a last resort and that our intent was to permanently stop a threat to our lives or the lives of others.

The attorney at my qual class took a number of us aside, and advised that were we ever to shoot a perp justifiably, kill him. Otherwise, his family will rape you in civil court for a lifetime of medical bills.

 

[Spinster]

All the felons I've encountered own guns, which tells me they haven't had any problems getting their's. There must be a quite readily available supply of used or hot weapons if one has the right connections.

 

[MikeK]

I believe the actual circumstances of one's felonious offense, the length of time since punishment was completed, and verifiable evidence that the offender has reformed and is leading an honest, productive life should be weighed as determining factors as to whether the right to own firearms should be withheld.

I know someone who became a heroin addict in his late teens, was convicted of a series of burglaries and served eighteen months on Rikers Island. I've known him since we were kids. In fact our families lived in the same Brooklyn Waterfront tenement in the 1940s. I know he was not and is not a bad person. He made the stupid mistake of trying heroin and he got hooked.

That was over fifty years ago. I know he profoundly regrets his mistake and has since become a very different person. Were it not for the fact that I knew him then I would not believe the ugly chapter in his background. He ended up owning a small but successful roofing business and I recall his once mentioning being forbidden to own even a .22 target rifle because of his felony record.

I'm sure there are others in the same situation.

 

[whitehall]

If the democrat party could gain a voter base among "former" felons you could bet your ass that they would revise the definition of "felon" even if it endangered the safety of normal Americans.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
The attorney at my qual class took a number of us aside, and advised that were we ever to shoot a perp justifiably, kill him. Otherwise, his family will rape you in civil court for a lifetime of medical bills.

If you kill him, they can still sue you for wrongful death.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Anyone convicted of a crime of violence or who is not a citizen of the United States should NOT be permitted to purchase a firearm or vote under any circumstances, ever.

Tough to define a "crime of violence". I would say drunk driving or extreme speeding qualifies.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

[
The attorney at my qual class took a number of us aside, and advised that were we ever to shoot a perp justifiably, kill him. Otherwise, his family will rape you in civil court for a lifetime of medical bills.

If you kill him, they can still sue you for wrongful death.

Yes, hence the word "justifiably". The exposure to civil court would be limited.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I believe the actual circumstances of one's felonious offense, the length of time since punishment was completed, and verifiable evidence that the offender has reformed and is leading an honest, productive life should be weighed as determining factors as to whether the right to own firearms should be withheld.

I know someone who became a heroin addict in his late teens, was convicted of a series of burglaries and served eighteen months on Rikers Island. I've known him since we were kids. In fact our families lived in the same Brooklyn Waterfront tenement in the 1940s. I know he was not and is not a bad person. He made the stupid mistake of trying heroin and he got hooked.

That was over fifty years ago. I know he profoundly regrets his mistake and has since become a very different person. Were it not for the fact that I knew him then I would not believe the ugly chapter in his background. He ended up owning a small but successful roofing business and I recall his once mentioning being forbidden to own even a .22 target rifle because of his felony record.

I'm sure there are others in the same situation.

Your friend is probably an anomaly. I've rented to felon drug users and had nothing but problems with them. In one case the lowlife owed money to a dealer he didn't have and they came and burned my house nearly to the ground.

It's very difficult to determine the felons who will no longer be a problem and the majority of them that will. It's simpler for me to just refuse rental to them and then I have a better chance at not having any problems.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How about changing the law to allow "warning shots"?

Woman jailed for 20 years freed to spend two years under house arrest

I would never give a warning shot. If I draw a weapon, it's for a reason.

Good point. In my concealed carry class, we were instructed to not draw our weapon unless it was a last resort and that our intent was to permanently stop a threat to our lives or the lives of others.

The attorney at my qual class took a number of us aside, and advised that were we ever to shoot a perp justifiably, kill him. Otherwise, his family will rape you in civil court for a lifetime of medical bills.

It's possible but not probable. Not many juries are going to side with a criminal who brought harm to you and was gunned down in the process. In my state, we have protections against such suits if the intruder broke into your home. If he hurts himself or you hurt or kill him, there is nothing he nor his family can do to you. That's the way it should be in every state.

However it's different if you need to shoot somebody outside of your home. There you can be held liable, but again, not probable.

 

[MikeK]

Your friend is probably an anomaly. I've rented to felon drug users and had nothing but problems with them. In one case the lowlife owed money to a dealer he didn't have and they came and burned my house nearly to the ground.

It's very difficult to determine the felons who will no longer be a problem and the majority of them that will. It's simpler for me to just refuse rental to them and then I have a better chance at not having any problems.

I fully agree with your rejection of and disdain for the stereotypical low-life junkie. But the fellow I wrote about is one example of complete and obvious redemption. If I didn't know him since childhood I would not believe he is the same person.

Another example is Anthony Bourdain who hosts an interesting tv show in which he travels all over the world sampling foreign foods and cultures. He is a former heroin junkie.

The only point I tried to make is there are certain individuals who have made non-violent felonious mistakes but are obviously reformed and should not be permanently denied the right to own firearms.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

The only point I tried to make is there are certain individuals who have made non-violent felonious mistakes but are obviously reformed and should not be permanently denied the right to own firearms.

Who's to say if someone is "obviously reformed". You want the govt to set up panels of experts to decide such things and that means they will ok only people who pay them a big enough bribe.

Judgement calls always lead to trouble. We need to redefine felony to crimes punishable by more than 10 years and even those people should get RKBA restored if they go a certain number of years with no further felonies. No judgement calls there.

 

[MikeK]

Who's to say if someone is "obviously reformed". You want the govt to set up panels of experts to decide such things and that means they will ok only people who pay them a big enough bribe.

Judgement calls always lead to trouble. We need to redefine felony to crimes punishable by more than 10 years and even those people should get RKBA restored if they go a certain number of years with no further felonies. No judgement calls there.

If you were to verify the questions on an ordinary firearm permit application you would find that my friend was convicted on three counts of burglary and possession of a controlled substance (heroin) in the early 1950s and that he served eighteen months in prison, which he freely and honestly admits. Since that time he has been a gainfully employed taxpayer, a small business owner and home-owner with a spotless record.

This man has paid his debt to society and he's proven to be an honest, decent, law-abiding and productive citizen for more than the past fifty years. Why should he be forbidden to own even a target rifle? This bureaucratic restriction seems to me to be maliciously and unnecessarily vindictive. And if you met the fellow I'm talking about you'd find it hard to believe he once was a junkie/thief.

In response to the substance of your message, the circumstances referenced above are easily verified. If they were not they should not be required on a firearms application form.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I understand your point. I say if you've been clean for 15 years or longer, chances are you won't be much of a problem in the future.

I have a work associate who became friends with a guy at a bar he frequented. They started to hang out together going to sports events and he even had the guy over for Thanksgiving.

After about a year, his friend asked if he knew anybody that sold coke. As it happened he did have another friend that would sell drugs on the side. He set them up to meet at his home. After the sale, he heard his door being knocked down, people crawling through the window yelling "POLICE DON'T MOVE." His buddy was an undercover cop. They used my friend to get to the guy they were really after--the pusher.

He didn't spend any time in jail but as you would expect, he now has a criminal record just for setting the deal up. He wasn't even involved in drugs himself. He's a beer man like me.