Speculate with me about the Iraq war...

[rdean]

What? Iraq or Afghanistan? Those are really the only two that Bush got us into. The rest is all Obama.

Someday, when you grow up, you'll better understand what the "domino-effect" implies.

Oh for crying out loud are you another persona of Jake the fake? No one but him could be such a big waste of bandwidth.

Why are you saying such bullshit???? Invading Iraq led to the destabilization of the entire Middle East. Or what is typically called a "domino effect". It's not like it can be denied.

 

[rdean]

Iraq has essentially disintegrated with Saddam's demise and is now occupied by any number of terrorist groups and largely under control of Iran, Iran-backed influencers, or both.

Iraq & Syria have essentially become a borderless, lawless version of the Wild West.

Millions are fleeing the chaos and butchery, creating a massive problem for Europeans.

It doesn't appear that anything is going to either stop or slow this down any time soon.
.

Again you keep acting as if Iraq is falling apart because an outside source is attacking it. The government is still there and ISIS hasn't done much recently. But that is a never mind it isn't Iraq where the recent fighting started it is Libya and Syria. THOSE are the countries that are being destabilized with the help of Obama. Why do you blame the destabilization, that has caused Iraq to be attacked, on Iraq? It makes absolutely no sense.

Because Iran is fighting and fueling proxy battles for influence all over the region, unencumbered by its former most dangerous enemy.

It can pretty much act with impunity right now.
.

So you would have Iran/Iraq wars and that is better? Are you sure that Iran is involved in the fighting? If so could you provide a link stating as much? And if they are then that makes another point that should be bargained with the Iran deal. They already said they were going to build their military so maybe Obama is making yet another mistake.

Yes, I would definitely rather have Iran & Iraq going at each other than Iran exercising murder and influence all over the area, with an Iraq in pieces.

I really don't think I need to provide proof that Iran is acting all over. A few Google clicks will back me up just fine.
.

Of course we know they are sponsoring terrorism they have always sponsored terrorism and have said they won't stop. Saddam sponsored terrorism (not 9/11 directly). BOTH countries were a problem, now all we need to deal with is one and we are taking the best deal they will give us and you are attacking with strawmen.

So Bin Laden and Saddam were enemies. Saddam and Iran were enemies. Who sponsored 9/11?

 

[MaryL]

We would have been better off IF Saddam Hussein was in power now. This is fact: Early 1990 (BEFORE THE GULF WAR), I saw in a local Burlington Northern marshalling yard, the build up of military equipment obviously meant for the mideast (desert tan camouflage paint instead of the standard NATO Olive drab).I came from a military family, I notice little things like that. There were preparations for a war BEFORE Saddam invaded Kuwait.We were Iraq's ally during the Iraq-Iran war 80' to 88, Saddam was seen as a bolster against Iranian extremists and their aggression. We allowed Saddam to invade Kuwait, instead of pull our many strings and stop it behind the curtain. But now we have a tiger by the tail.

Good points. We simply handed the power to Shiites aligned with Iran. Nothing good has come of the Iraq War. We only created bloody chaos over there. And it cost American Taxpayers untold $Billions. Along with the loss of a lot of good kids for nothing.

THIS TROUBLE STARTED OUTSIDE OF IRAQ, OUTSIDE. THIS IS ALL OBAMA.

No, Obama couldn't do much to stop the snowball effect Bush Jr. started in 2003 with a pointless invasion even his father didn't dare try back in 90. Obama is in a no win situation, damned no matter what he does, he can't fix this mess. Pull out, he gets condemned, stay, he gets condemned. ISIL sprung from the loins of GW Bushes' warmongering,And Obama can't abort this monster.

 

[nat4900]

No, Obama couldn't do much to stop the snowball effect Bush Jr. started in 2003 with a pointless invasion even his father didn't dare try back in 90. Obama is in a no win situation, damned no matter what he does, he can't fix this mess. Pull out, he gets condemned, stay, he gets condemned. ISIL sprung from the loins of GW Bushes' warmongering,And Obama can't abort this monster.

Well stated.....and why do some people keep on FORGETTING that GWB made a deal with a "duly" elected Iraqi government for us to be OUT OF THERE on a specific date.

Bottom line: In trying to appease their own consciences many....on both sides of the aisle........try to spread the blame; only ONE republican voted against the invasion....remember, ONLY ONE !!!!

 

[Freewill]

We would have been better off IF Saddam Hussein was in power now. This is fact: Early 1990 (BEFORE THE GULF WAR), I saw in a local Burlington Northern marshalling yard, the build up of military equipment obviously meant for the mideast (desert tan camouflage paint instead of the standard NATO Olive drab).I came from a military family, I notice little things like that. There were preparations for a war BEFORE Saddam invaded Kuwait.We were Iraq's ally during the Iraq-Iran war 80' to 88, Saddam was seen as a bolster against Iranian extremists and their aggression. We allowed Saddam to invade Kuwait, instead of pull our many strings and stop it behind the curtain. But now we have a tiger by the tail.

Good points. We simply handed the power to Shiites aligned with Iran. Nothing good has come of the Iraq War. We only created bloody chaos over there. And it cost American Taxpayers untold $Billions. Along with the loss of a lot of good kids for nothing.

THIS TROUBLE STARTED OUTSIDE OF IRAQ, OUTSIDE. THIS IS ALL OBAMA.

No, Obama couldn't do much to stop the snowball effect Bush Jr. started in 2003 with a pointless invasion even his father didn't dare try back in 90. Obama is in a no win situation, damned no matter what he does, he can't fix this mess. Pull out, he gets condemned, stay, he gets condemned. ISIL sprung from the loins of GW Bushes' warmongering,And Obama can't abort this monster.

The point of the Iraq war was to remove Saddam and his murderous regime from power, done.

You who wish to cover for Obama are really nothing but liars or deluded. What is going on in the ME has nothing to do with the Iraq war that ended years ago. You know when Obama pulled out. But even him pulling out you blame on Bush.

This situation, after 7 years of Obama, is ALL Obama.

 

[Freewill]

What? Iraq or Afghanistan? Those are really the only two that Bush got us into. The rest is all Obama.

Someday, when you grow up, you'll better understand what the "domino-effect" implies.

Oh for crying out loud are you another persona of Jake the fake? No one but him could be such a big waste of bandwidth.

Why are you saying such bullshit???? Invading Iraq led to the destabilization of the entire Middle East. Or what is typically called a "domino effect". It's not like it can be denied.

HOW IN THE HELL CAN YOU MAKE SUCH STATEMENTS? Really? Libya was not destabilized until Obama bombed the crap out of it and they killed Qaddafi. Syria has a civil war going on that Obama is supporting the opposition giving rise to the murderous ISIS. What is wrong with you people do you really hate America this much? I suggest you go join ISIS and ask for a front line position.

 

[Freewill]

What destabilization are you speaking of? What we are seeing today? Saddam was someway able to keep the other ME countries in check? Maybe I am wrong but the current humanitarian crisis didn't originate in Iraq or Iran. And what good was there to Iran and Iraq having a war every few years? All his neighbors were glad to see the butcher of Baghdad gone. He was a threat.

Iraq has essentially disintegrated with Saddam's demise and is now occupied by any number of terrorist groups and largely under control of Iran, Iran-backed influencers, or both.

Iraq & Syria have essentially become a borderless, lawless version of the Wild West.

Millions are fleeing the chaos and butchery, creating a massive problem for Europeans.

It doesn't appear that anything is going to either stop or slow this down any time soon.
.

Again you keep acting as if Iraq is falling apart because an outside source is attacking it. The government is still there and ISIS hasn't done much recently. But that is a never mind it isn't Iraq where the recent fighting started it is Libya and Syria. THOSE are the countries that are being destabilized with the help of Obama. Why do you blame the destabilization, that has caused Iraq to be attacked, on Iraq? It makes absolutely no sense.

Because Iran is fighting and fueling proxy battles for influence all over the region, unencumbered by its former most dangerous enemy.

It can pretty much act with impunity right now.
.

So you would have Iran/Iraq wars and that is better? Are you sure that Iran is involved in the fighting? If so could you provide a link stating as much? And if they are then that makes another point that should be bargained with the Iran deal. They already said they were going to build their military so maybe Obama is making yet another mistake.

Yes, I would definitely rather have Iran & Iraq going at each other than Iran exercising murder and influence all over the area, with an Iraq in pieces.

I really don't think I need to provide proof that Iran is acting all over. A few Google clicks will back me up just fine.
.

Spoken as a person who can't back up what they said. You sure you are not a liberal democrat, you are playing their game. You're repeating their lies, if you are not you ought to join.

 

[Mac1958]

Iraq has essentially disintegrated with Saddam's demise and is now occupied by any number of terrorist groups and largely under control of Iran, Iran-backed influencers, or both.

Iraq & Syria have essentially become a borderless, lawless version of the Wild West.

Millions are fleeing the chaos and butchery, creating a massive problem for Europeans.

It doesn't appear that anything is going to either stop or slow this down any time soon.
.

Again you keep acting as if Iraq is falling apart because an outside source is attacking it. The government is still there and ISIS hasn't done much recently. But that is a never mind it isn't Iraq where the recent fighting started it is Libya and Syria. THOSE are the countries that are being destabilized with the help of Obama. Why do you blame the destabilization, that has caused Iraq to be attacked, on Iraq? It makes absolutely no sense.

Because Iran is fighting and fueling proxy battles for influence all over the region, unencumbered by its former most dangerous enemy.

It can pretty much act with impunity right now.
.

So you would have Iran/Iraq wars and that is better? Are you sure that Iran is involved in the fighting? If so could you provide a link stating as much? And if they are then that makes another point that should be bargained with the Iran deal. They already said they were going to build their military so maybe Obama is making yet another mistake.

Yes, I would definitely rather have Iran & Iraq going at each other than Iran exercising murder and influence all over the area, with an Iraq in pieces.

I really don't think I need to provide proof that Iran is acting all over. A few Google clicks will back me up just fine.
.

Spoken as a person who can't back up what they said. You sure you are not a liberal democrat, you are playing their game. You're repeating their lies, if you are not you ought to join.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, so tell me: Are you claiming that, since Saddam was removed, Iran has not been exercising increasing influence outside of its borders?
.

.

 

[Bassman007]

I know, I know that asking folks to speculate is always a risky business.....But give it a try....

Have we NOT had the invasion in Iraq:

Would we have the current fear of Iran with the potential nukes? (bear in mind that prior to 2001, Iran had zero centrifuges)???

Would we have the brutal rise of ISIS???

Would we have the civil war in Syria and the tragedy of hundred of thousands of refugees???

Would we have the plight of Jordan and Lebanon???

Would we have the messes that now exist in Egypt and Libya???

If you care to honestly speculate, then think of the tragedy that was the Cheney-Bush administration.

There is nothing to speculate about, none of those things would not exist if the USA had not invaded Iraq

 

[nat4900]

There is nothing to speculate about, none of those things would not exist if the USA had not invaded Iraq

A lot of double negatives in that sentence. LOL

 

[paulitician]

We would have been better off IF Saddam Hussein was in power now. This is fact: Early 1990 (BEFORE THE GULF WAR), I saw in a local Burlington Northern marshalling yard, the build up of military equipment obviously meant for the mideast (desert tan camouflage paint instead of the standard NATO Olive drab).I came from a military family, I notice little things like that. There were preparations for a war BEFORE Saddam invaded Kuwait.We were Iraq's ally during the Iraq-Iran war 80' to 88, Saddam was seen as a bolster against Iranian extremists and their aggression. We allowed Saddam to invade Kuwait, instead of pull our many strings and stop it behind the curtain. But now we have a tiger by the tail.

Good points. We simply handed the power to Shiites aligned with Iran. Nothing good has come of the Iraq War. We only created bloody chaos over there. And it cost American Taxpayers untold $Billions. Along with the loss of a lot of good kids for nothing.

THIS TROUBLE STARTED OUTSIDE OF IRAQ, OUTSIDE. THIS IS ALL OBAMA.

No, Obama couldn't do much to stop the snowball effect Bush Jr. started in 2003 with a pointless invasion even his father didn't dare try back in 90. Obama is in a no win situation, damned no matter what he does, he can't fix this mess. Pull out, he gets condemned, stay, he gets condemned. ISIL sprung from the loins of GW Bushes' warmongering,And Obama can't abort this monster.

You're right for the most part. Iraq is Bush's mess. However, ISIS didn't just magically spring up. It's a well funded and armed American, Saudi, and British creation. It was created to kill Assad in Syria. And Obama had a hand in that.

 

[paulitician]

What? Iraq or Afghanistan? Those are really the only two that Bush got us into. The rest is all Obama.

Someday, when you grow up, you'll better understand what the "domino-effect" implies.

Oh for crying out loud are you another persona of Jake the fake? No one but him could be such a big waste of bandwidth.

Why are you saying such bullshit???? Invading Iraq led to the destabilization of the entire Middle East. Or what is typically called a "domino effect". It's not like it can be denied.

HOW IN THE HELL CAN YOU MAKE SUCH STATEMENTS? Really? Libya was not destabilized until Obama bombed the crap out of it and they killed Qaddafi. Syria has a civil war going on that Obama is supporting the opposition giving rise to the murderous ISIS. What is wrong with you people do you really hate America this much? I suggest you go join ISIS and ask for a front line position.

Different Presidents, same policies. You're correct on Libya and Syria. Our aggressive Foreign Interventionist policies have led to bloody chaos over there. ISIS especially, couldn't have happened without American, Saudi, and British support. It was all about killing Assad in Syria. Acknowledging that our constant meddling creates horrific carnage, doesn't mean you hate America. It's just accepting reality.

 

[nat4900]

Different Presidents, same policies. You're correct on Libya and Syria. Our aggressive Foreign Interventionist policies have led to bloody chaos over there. ISIS especially, couldn't have happened without American, Saudi, and British support. It was all about killing Assad in Syria. Acknowledging that our constant meddling creates horrific carnage, doesn't mean you hate America. It's just accepting reality.

Although I mostly agree, I would also (and mostly) blame the rise of ISIS on the vengeful Malaki administration that ousted many, many Sunni from the military echelon.....Without a salary, without their former status and without much of a future, these experienced folks turned to the revolutionary ISIS.

 

[MaryL]

We would have been better off IF Saddam Hussein was in power now. This is fact: Early 1990 (BEFORE THE GULF WAR), I saw in a local Burlington Northern marshalling yard, the build up of military equipment obviously meant for the mideast (desert tan camouflage paint instead of the standard NATO Olive drab).I came from a military family, I notice little things like that. There were preparations for a war BEFORE Saddam invaded Kuwait.We were Iraq's ally during the Iraq-Iran war 80' to 88, Saddam was seen as a bolster against Iranian extremists and their aggression. We allowed Saddam to invade Kuwait, instead of pull our many strings and stop it behind the curtain. But now we have a tiger by the tail.

Good points. We simply handed the power to Shiites aligned with Iran. Nothing good has come of the Iraq War. We only created bloody chaos over there. And it cost American Taxpayers untold $Billions. Along with the loss of a lot of good kids for nothing.

THIS TROUBLE STARTED OUTSIDE OF IRAQ, OUTSIDE. THIS IS ALL OBAMA.

No, Obama couldn't do much to stop the snowball effect Bush Jr. started in 2003 with a pointless invasion even his father didn't dare try back in 90. Obama is in a no win situation, damned no matter what he does, he can't fix this mess. Pull out, he gets condemned, stay, he gets condemned. ISIL sprung from the loins of GW Bushes' warmongering,And Obama can't abort this monster.

You're right for the most part. Iraq is Bush's mess. However, ISIS didn't just magically spring up. It's a well funded and armed American, Saudi, and British creation. It was created to kill Assad in Syria. And Obama had a hand in that.

Obama isn't any more responsible for ISIL than GW Bush was for Al queda. They grew out of Muslim extremism far apart from American politics, a whole different universe they occupy. I am posting on 9/11. Remember 9/11?

 

[Freewill]

What? Iraq or Afghanistan? Those are really the only two that Bush got us into. The rest is all Obama.

Someday, when you grow up, you'll better understand what the "domino-effect" implies.

Oh for crying out loud are you another persona of Jake the fake? No one but him could be such a big waste of bandwidth.

Why are you saying such bullshit???? Invading Iraq led to the destabilization of the entire Middle East. Or what is typically called a "domino effect". It's not like it can be denied.

HOW IN THE HELL CAN YOU MAKE SUCH STATEMENTS? Really? Libya was not destabilized until Obama bombed the crap out of it and they killed Qaddafi. Syria has a civil war going on that Obama is supporting the opposition giving rise to the murderous ISIS. What is wrong with you people do you really hate America this much? I suggest you go join ISIS and ask for a front line position.

Different Presidents, same policies. You're correct on Libya and Syria. Our aggressive Foreign Interventionist policies have led to bloody chaos over there. ISIS especially, couldn't have happened without American, Saudi, and British support. It was all about killing Assad in Syria. Acknowledging that our constant meddling creates horrific carnage, doesn't mean you hate America. It's just accepting reality.

And if we help remove al-Assad from power, like Obama did with Libya. Can you imagine the power vacuum? The power that will give ISIS? This is ALL Obama.

 

[MaryL]

c

Someday, when you grow up, you'll better understand what the "domino-effect" implies.

Oh for crying out loud are you another persona of Jake the fake? No one but him could be such a big waste of bandwidth.

Why are you saying such bullshit???? Invading Iraq led to the destabilization of the entire Middle East. Or what is typica

HOW IN THE HELL CAN YOU MAKE SUCH STATEMENTS? Really? Libya was not destabilized until Obama bombed the crap out of it and they killed Qaddafi. Syria has a civil war going on that Obama is supporting the opposition giving rise to the murderous ISIS. What is wrong with you people do you really hate America this much? I suggest you go join ISIS and ask for a front line position.

Different Presidents, same policies. You're correct on Libya and Syria. Our aggressive Foreign Interventionist policies have led to bloody chaos over there. ISIS especially, couldn't have happened without American, Saudi, and British support. It was all about killing Assad in Syria. Acknowledging that our constant meddling creates horrific carnage, doesn't mean you hate America. It's just accepting reality.

And if we help remove al-Assad from power, like Obama did with Libya. Can you imagine the power vacuum? The power that will give ISIS? This is ALL Obama.

What? Iraq or Afghanistan? Those are really the only two that Bush got us into. The rest is all Obama.

Someday, when you grow up, you'll better understand what the "domino-effect" implies.

Oh for crying out loud are you another persona of Jake the fake? No one but him could be such a big waste of bandwidth.

Why are you saying such bullshit???? Invading Iraq led to the destabilization of the entire Middle East. Or what is typically called a "domino effect". It's not like it can be denied.

The invasion of Iraq was counterproductive, and didn't address threats like al Qaeda and further inflamed anti American sentiments, and fed into this nasty Muslim theocratic Nazi-like control fetish of theirs. Muslims want to dominate, I don't know what else to call their mindset. Even the Nazis didn't pull the stunts Muslims have. We could ended them, a long time ago. But we are nice.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I know, I know that asking folks to speculate is always a risky business.....But give it a try....

Have we NOT had the invasion in Iraq:

Would we have the current fear of Iran with the potential nukes? (bear in mind that prior to 2001, Iran had zero centrifuges)???

Would we have the brutal rise of ISIS???

Would we have the civil war in Syria and the tragedy of hundred of thousands of refugees???

Would we have the plight of Jordan and Lebanon???

Would we have the messes that now exist in Egypt and Libya???

If you care to honestly speculate, then think of the tragedy that was the Cheney-Bush administration.

Yes.

Probably not.

Eventually.

No.

Yes.

What about...would we have a lot of money to do other things had we not spent it on that insanity ?

What about....would Obama have been elected had Bush and his moron congress not turned American on itself ?

 

[paulitician]

Different Presidents, same policies. You're correct on Libya and Syria. Our aggressive Foreign Interventionist policies have led to bloody chaos over there. ISIS especially, couldn't have happened without American, Saudi, and British support. It was all about killing Assad in Syria. Acknowledging that our constant meddling creates horrific carnage, doesn't mean you hate America. It's just accepting reality.

Although I mostly agree, I would also (and mostly) blame the rise of ISIS on the vengeful Malaki administration that ousted many, many Sunni from the military echelon.....Without a salary, without their former status and without much of a future, these experienced folks turned to the revolutionary ISIS.

Somewhat true. But ISIS really got its start and backing in Syria. It was well funded armed, and trained by American, Saudi, and British Intelligence. It was created to overthrow Assad. And now it's an awful mess.

It looks like it's up to Russia and Iran to exterminate ISIS in Syria now. We should have listened to both those nations when they warned us not to fund & arm groups in Syria.

 

[paulitician]

We would have been better off IF Saddam Hussein was in power now. This is fact: Early 1990 (BEFORE THE GULF WAR), I saw in a local Burlington Northern marshalling yard, the build up of military equipment obviously meant for the mideast (desert tan camouflage paint instead of the standard NATO Olive drab).I came from a military family, I notice little things like that. There were preparations for a war BEFORE Saddam invaded Kuwait.We were Iraq's ally during the Iraq-Iran war 80' to 88, Saddam was seen as a bolster against Iranian extremists and their aggression. We allowed Saddam to invade Kuwait, instead of pull our many strings and stop it behind the curtain. But now we have a tiger by the tail.

Good points. We simply handed the power to Shiites aligned with Iran. Nothing good has come of the Iraq War. We only created bloody chaos over there. And it cost American Taxpayers untold $Billions. Along with the loss of a lot of good kids for nothing.

THIS TROUBLE STARTED OUTSIDE OF IRAQ, OUTSIDE. THIS IS ALL OBAMA.

No, Obama couldn't do much to stop the snowball effect Bush Jr. started in 2003 with a pointless invasion even his father didn't dare try back in 90. Obama is in a no win situation, damned no matter what he does, he can't fix this mess. Pull out, he gets condemned, stay, he gets condemned. ISIL sprung from the loins of GW Bushes' warmongering,And Obama can't abort this monster.

You're right for the most part. Iraq is Bush's mess. However, ISIS didn't just magically spring up. It's a well funded and armed American, Saudi, and British creation. It was created to kill Assad in Syria. And Obama had a hand in that.

Obama isn't any more responsible for ISIL than GW Bush was for Al queda. They grew out of Muslim extremism far apart from American politics, a whole different universe they occupy. I am posting on 9/11. Remember 9/11?

Both Al qaeda and ISIS couldn't be what they are today, without U.S. funding, arming, and training. ISIS especially, is a U.S., Saudi, and British creation. Created to kill Assad in Syria.

 

[paulitician]

Someday, when you grow up, you'll better understand what the "domino-effect" implies.

Oh for crying out loud are you another persona of Jake the fake? No one but him could be such a big waste of bandwidth.

Why are you saying such bullshit???? Invading Iraq led to the destabilization of the entire Middle East. Or what is typically called a "domino effect". It's not like it can be denied.

HOW IN THE HELL CAN YOU MAKE SUCH STATEMENTS? Really? Libya was not destabilized until Obama bombed the crap out of it and they killed Qaddafi. Syria has a civil war going on that Obama is supporting the opposition giving rise to the murderous ISIS. What is wrong with you people do you really hate America this much? I suggest you go join ISIS and ask for a front line position.

Different Presidents, same policies. You're correct on Libya and Syria. Our aggressive Foreign Interventionist policies have led to bloody chaos over there. ISIS especially, couldn't have happened without American, Saudi, and British support. It was all about killing Assad in Syria. Acknowledging that our constant meddling creates horrific carnage, doesn't mean you hate America. It's just accepting reality.

And if we help remove al-Assad from power, like Obama did with Libya. Can you imagine the power vacuum? The power that will give ISIS? This is ALL Obama.

Things are so bad, Russia and Iran will have to save the day in Syria. They'll exterminate ISIS. They'll clean up our awful mess.