Supremes: Hobby Lobby wins

[Quantum Windbag]

I want you to do me a favor. Take this out of the insurance argument.

Let me ask you this: Lets say that someday a company is founded by a Muslim that becomes, lets say, a nationwide chain of car dealerships. As we know, Muslims have a big problem being subordinate to a woman.

Could a company that is completely privately held by a Muslim family, find religious footing to not promote women?

No, because the decision already says that the government has a compelling government interest in that area,m which you would know if you actually did a little research.

On the other hand, you did prove you are willing to jump to wild assed conclusions without any evidence to support them.

Just asked a question;

A question based on not reading anything.

 

[PeoplePower]

I don't know why conservatives are happy. Less contraceptives=more abortions.



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[gallantwarrior]

Awesome. Now we can all die because a corporation can assert that their religion prevents them from covering blood transfusions and life saving procedures. While they laugh their asses off to the bank knowing they lied, got Americans killed, and take in more profits.

This country is heading to third world status fast.

He's absolutely right.

While many agree with statement: This country is heading to third world status fast.", many disagree with the causes of this degradation.

 

[gallantwarrior]

This decision says companies can impose their 'religious' dogma on their employees thus walling them off from medical coverage. It says the employer's 'religious' rights are protected, yet the employee's religious rights can take a back seat so long as they draw a paycheck.

Surely there are aspects of Obamacare that badly need adjusting. But this decision makes a claim of 'religion' strong enough to harm or kill an employee and call it regrettable, but "God's" will.

So, let me get this straight. Religious business owners can't "enforce their dogma" on their employees, but the government can force it's own on them? Why?

And just a burning question, how does not having an abortion kill the woman if she is fully capable of giving birth to the child? This only proves liberals want abortive rights for those women who would like to be afforded the convenience, not the necessity of having an abortion.

An employer has no place, let alone 'right' imposing his [articular religious dogma on employees. You sign on for a paycheck in exchange for labor or services, not religious indoctrination. And if that religious dogma says one cannot have particular lifesaving medical treatment, let the employer die from ignorance. Don't take out the innocent employees there just to do a job.

And if an employer chooses (no longer an option) to provide health insurance as part of an employee's compensation package, it should be up to the employer to decide what services should be included in that package. If the employer is generous enough, perhaps they arrange a few options for employees to choose from. It is not part of the Constitutional mandates that government force all employers to provide such coverage, nor to dictate what coverage should be provided when it is part of employee compensation. If an employee desires anything over and above what is offered, they should not be prevented from seeking such additional services on their own. (I.e. employers may offer health care insurance but may not force employees to accept or pay for it.)

 

[Darkwind]

I don't know why conservatives are happy. Less contraceptives=more abortions.



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Where do you get the notion that there will be less contraception?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I don't know why conservatives are happy. Less contraceptives=more abortions.



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Where do you get the notion that there will be less contraception?

There won't be. Everyone in all of liberalism knows this. Hobby Lobby was providing contraceptive coverage before the ruling, and will STILL be providing contraceptive coverage in spite of this ruling. 16 of 20 types of contraception will be provided regardless, and now the Democrats will try and make this an election issue. But it is too little too late.

 

[candycorn]

I did answer it. I think it was post #98.

The answer is YES, YOU WOULD NEED TO CHANGE JOBS. It's called property rights. You buy something, you own it. Employees have had to change jobs for many reasons, and I'm certain that Unfairness is at the top of each one's excuse.

Grow Up.

Thanks for the clarity. Swallow must be right then. If you're okay with this--that you can be discriminated against--LEGALLY--because of the owner's faith then today is a dark day.

Not so much if the question is contraception but if your career is now jeopardized simply because of your gender and the court approves of it...we are in trouble.

You are an idiot, the decision addressed all of those issues. You really need to grow up, next thing you will be telling me there are monsters under your bed.

Quote where they were addressed.

You can't.
You won't.

 

[candycorn]

I don't know why conservatives are happy. Less contraceptives=more abortions.



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Not only that but from a political standpoint, it gets the base fired up. This may not cost the GOP the Senate in November--I fully expect them to take control of it--but it may cost them a seat or two that they otherwise would have won.

In 2016, it probably added tens of millions of dollars to the PACs and Super PACs that the DEMS would have perhaps not seen.

 

[JFK_USA]

Dear [MENTION=25283]Sallow[/MENTION] [MENTION=20709]JFK_USA[/MENTION] [MENTION=20704]Nosmo King[/MENTION]:
This is why conservatives/Constitutionalists argue to keep
HEALTH CARE OUT OF GOVT

[/QUOTE]

You say that yet you applaud corporations getting between you and your doctor.

That's the ironic thing about this entire ruling and the celebration on the right. We constantly hear from the right "Keep the government out of our health care! My healthcare should be between me and my doctor!" I understand that. Then when it's a for profit corporation, you then say "WOOOO!!! Yeah, Corporations should get in between you and your doctor!" Huh?

Is government perfect? Hell no. It's can be frustrating and very slow. However, it's the only entity we have that looks out solely for the citizens. It's hard and it's not always right but at least it tries. A corporation is not a person, it is a machine that follows one simple equation:

Revenue - Costs = PROFIT.

If it can reduce it's costs by any means legally (and sometimes Illegally (see HSBC)), they will do it. They do not care about people, they care about profit. That's it. Nothing else. Why do you see cuts in wages, benefits and massive layoffs? Because they value profit over people. Always have and always will. Yet you and every conservative forget that simple fact and hate government but love corporations. I'll never understand that.

It's not as easy as it sounds to get your own health insurance. Sometimes, an individual catastrophic plan in the new health exchange cost $100 a month for a healthy 20 something (like me, I priced myself). If I would have done that, it would have been tough but doable. I stuck with my work's plan because I made the economically feasible decision to do so. It was cheaper and covered more. Now I have to wonder will my employer cover a blood transfusion or nor because of a religious belief?

The courts can try to put Pandora back in her box, but she is already out. They gave the precedent a company needed to get out of paying for healthcare. This narrow ruling will be challenged and I can't see with this decision and Citizens United how they can contain it. Corporations are now people with religious beliefs. What religious beliefs? Well according to the 1st Amendment, anything they want it to be. Even one that believes it's a sin to pay workers and it's religious duty is to own slaves. Now how to do handle that one Emily? I mean which values do we cherish? Freedom of religion or actual freedom and not being another person's property.

You can say it won't happen but if you would of told me 10 years ago when I began college that Corporations are people with their own religious beliefs that can dictate the type of health care you receive based upon that religious belief. I would have thought you were a crazy person. Yet that's exactly what's happened today.

So the question is in 10 years, is it too far fetched to think that a company can dictate your healthcare whether or not you get your health insurance from them? I don't know anymore.

 

[Geaux4it]

Companies get sold all the time; should I have to give up my career if my new employers are Muslim? How would I be able to find out if they are Muslim? I don't know the faith of my current company's owners.... In fact, with the exception of my first job, I haven't known the religious faith of any of my employers.

Partnerships have buy-outs all the time too. What if your family-held-business decides they want to convert to Islam; should I have to quit because of their religious beliefs getting in the way of my career?

I'm really not trying to play "gotcha"; I was curious if this opens the door to the Muslim family to employ this argument for not promoting women.

Can you answer it?

I did answer it. I think it was post #98.

The answer is YES, YOU WOULD NEED TO CHANGE JOBS. It's called property rights. You buy something, you own it. Employees have had to change jobs for many reasons, and I'm certain that Unfairness is at the top of each one's excuse.

Grow Up.

Thanks for the clarity. Swallow must be right then. If you're okay with this--that you can be discriminated against--LEGALLY--because of the owner's faith then today is a dark day.

Not so much if the question is contraception but if your career is now jeopardized simply because of your gender and the court approves of it...we are in trouble.

Hello Rip VanWinkle- Get out much?

We got much more to worry about relative to SCOTUS rulings than worried about fags and whether someone gets free controception

-Geaux

 

[BobPlumb]

Dear [MENTION=25283]Sallow[/MENTION] [MENTION=20709]JFK_USA[/MENTION] [MENTION=20704]Nosmo King[/MENTION]:
This is why conservatives/Constitutionalists argue to keep
HEALTH CARE OUT OF GOVT

You say that yet you applaud corporations getting between you and your doctor.

That's the ironic thing about this entire ruling and the celebration on the right. We constantly hear from the right "Keep the government out of our health care! My healthcare should be between me and my doctor!" I understand that. Then when it's a for profit corporation, you then say "WOOOO!!! Yeah, Corporations should get in between you and your doctor!" Huh?

Is government perfect? Hell no. It's can be frustrating and very slow. However, it's the only entity we have that looks out solely for the citizens. It's hard and it's not always right but at least it tries. A corporation is not a person, it is a machine that follows one simple equation:

Revenue - Costs = PROFIT.

If it can reduce it's costs by any means legally (and sometimes Illegally (see HSBC)), they will do it. They do not care about people, they care about profit. That's it. Nothing else. Why do you see cuts in wages, benefits and massive layoffs? Because they value profit over people. Always have and always will. Yet you and every conservative forget that simple fact and hate government but love corporations. I'll never understand that.

It's not as easy as it sounds to get your own health insurance. Sometimes, an individual catastrophic plan in the new health exchange cost $100 a month for a healthy 20 something (like me, I priced myself). If I would have done that, it would have been tough but doable. I stuck with my work's plan because I made the economically feasible decision to do so. It was cheaper and covered more. Now I have to wonder will my employer cover a blood transfusion or nor because of a religious belief?

The courts can try to put Pandora back in her box, but she is already out. They gave the precedent a company needed to get out of paying for healthcare. This narrow ruling will be challenged and I can't see with this decision and Citizens United how they can contain it. Corporations are now people with religious beliefs. What religious beliefs? Well according to the 1st Amendment, anything they want it to be. Even one that believes it's a sin to pay workers and it's religious duty is to own slaves. Now how to do handle that one Emily? I mean which values do we cherish? Freedom of religion or actual freedom and not being another person's property.

You can say it won't happen but if you would of told me 10 years ago when I began college that Corporations are people with their own religious beliefs that can dictate the type of health care you receive based upon that religious belief. I would have thought you were a crazy person. Yet that's exactly what's happened today.

So the question is in 10 years, is it too far fetched to think that a company can dictate your healthcare whether or not you get your health insurance from them? I don't know anymore.

Damn those evil corporations! Hail to the benevolent goverment!

 

[Darkwind]

Never mind. I had the quotes backward.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

I'm glad I was gone all day..Major meltdown from the forum libruls and over what?? Not being able to trash someone's Constitutional right to choice? That's all we ever hear from liberals, "IT'S ALL ABOUT CHOICE," the freedom to choose but today we learned that only applies if it fits the leftist narrative.

 

[JFK_USA]

Dear [MENTION=25283]Sallow[/MENTION] [MENTION=20709]JFK_USA[/MENTION] [MENTION=20704]Nosmo King[/MENTION]:
This is why conservatives/Constitutionalists argue to keep
HEALTH CARE OUT OF GOVT

You say that yet you applaud corporations getting between you and your doctor.

That's the ironic thing about this entire ruling and the celebration on the right. We constantly hear from the right "Keep the government out of our health care! My healthcare should be between me and my doctor!" I understand that. Then when it's a for profit corporation, you then say "WOOOO!!! Yeah, Corporations should get in between you and your doctor!" Huh?

Is government perfect? Hell no. It's can be frustrating and very slow. However, it's the only entity we have that looks out solely for the citizens. It's hard and it's not always right but at least it tries. A corporation is not a person, it is a machine that follows one simple equation:

Revenue - Costs = PROFIT.

If it can reduce it's costs by any means legally (and sometimes Illegally (see HSBC)), they will do it. They do not care about people, they care about profit. That's it. Nothing else. Why do you see cuts in wages, benefits and massive layoffs? Because they value profit over people. Always have and always will. Yet you and every conservative forget that simple fact and hate government but love corporations. I'll never understand that.

It's not as easy as it sounds to get your own health insurance. Sometimes, an individual catastrophic plan in the new health exchange cost $100 a month for a healthy 20 something (like me, I priced myself). If I would have done that, it would have been tough but doable. I stuck with my work's plan because I made the economically feasible decision to do so. It was cheaper and covered more. Now I have to wonder will my employer cover a blood transfusion or nor because of a religious belief?

The courts can try to put Pandora back in her box, but she is already out. They gave the precedent a company needed to get out of paying for healthcare. This narrow ruling will be challenged and I can't see with this decision and Citizens United how they can contain it. Corporations are now people with religious beliefs. What religious beliefs? Well according to the 1st Amendment, anything they want it to be. Even one that believes it's a sin to pay workers and it's religious duty is to own slaves. Now how to do handle that one Emily? I mean which values do we cherish? Freedom of religion or actual freedom and not being another person's property.

You can say it won't happen but if you would of told me 10 years ago when I began college that Corporations are people with their own religious beliefs that can dictate the type of health care you receive based upon that religious belief. I would have thought you were a crazy person. Yet that's exactly what's happened today.

So the question is in 10 years, is it too far fetched to think that a company can dictate your healthcare whether or not you get your health insurance from them? I don't know anymore.

Damn those evil corporations! Hail to the benevolent goverment!

Damn that evil government! Hail to the benevolent corporation! See I can do it too. Did you actually have something constructive to add?

 

[JFK_USA]

I'm glad I was gone all day..Major meltdown from the forum libruls and over what?? Not being able to trash someone's Constitutional right to choice? That's all we ever hear from liberals, "IT'S ALL ABOUT CHOICE," the freedom to choose but today we learned that only applies if it fits the leftist narrative.

Why should a corporation make the decision that should be left between you and your doctor? Why shouldn't you have the contraception you want?

 

[Geaux4it]

I'm glad I was gone all day..Major meltdown from the forum libruls and over what?? Not being able to trash someone's Constitutional right to choice? That's all we ever hear from liberals, "IT'S ALL ABOUT CHOICE," the freedom to choose but today we learned that only applies if it fits the leftist narrative.

Why should a corporation make the decision that should be left between you and your doctor? Why shouldn't you have the contraception you want?

Go out and buy it. Probably less than the pack of smokes and a 24 ouncer. How about that cell phone? maybe give up the movie?

Think they are sell for about $8.00

-Geaux

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

I'm glad I was gone all day..Major meltdown from the forum libruls and over what?? Not being able to trash someone's Constitutional right to choice? That's all we ever hear from liberals, "IT'S ALL ABOUT CHOICE," the freedom to choose but today we learned that only applies if it fits the leftist narrative.

Why should a corporation make the decision that should be left between you and your doctor? Why shouldn't you have the contraception you want?

Why is Hobby Lobby responsible for your bad decision to fuck without a condom last night?

 

[blackhawk]

I'm glad I was gone all day..Major meltdown from the forum libruls and over what?? Not being able to trash someone's Constitutional right to choice? That's all we ever hear from liberals, "IT'S ALL ABOUT CHOICE," the freedom to choose but today we learned that only applies if it fits the leftist narrative.

Why should a corporation make the decision that should be left between you and your doctor? Why shouldn't you have the contraception you want?

You can go to the store and buy it the same way people got it before there ever was Obamacare.

 

[Luissa]

not sure what that has to do with this thread---but



no

no

yes

yes

no

It has to do with your claim you are for freedom. I am yes on all of them. Who is really for freedom here?

I will give you a hint, it isn't the person you see in a mirror. That person wants the government to force her beliefs on everyone else.

Hahaha!

 

[JFK_USA]

I'm glad I was gone all day..Major meltdown from the forum libruls and over what?? Not being able to trash someone's Constitutional right to choice? That's all we ever hear from liberals, "IT'S ALL ABOUT CHOICE," the freedom to choose but today we learned that only applies if it fits the leftist narrative.

Why should a corporation make the decision that should be left between you and your doctor? Why shouldn't you have the contraception you want?

Why is Hobby Lobby responsible for your bad decision to fuck without a condom last night?

IUDs cost in the thousands, what middle class woman can afford that? This wasn't only about the morning after pill. It was about IUDs too.