Sympathy for the Devil?

[Nosmo King]

Those who died as a result of terrorist attacks HAVE died holding a moral high ground.

It is amazing to see rock ribbed Conservatives using moral relativism and a total lack of ethics right out in the open! Usually those qualities are masked and obfuscated. But not when it comes to torture! Nope! the Conservatives show their true colors, and those colors are absolutely not American colors in the least.

What moral high ground did the victims at the Towers occupy? They were innocent people who unfortunately happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. There was nothing moral about their deaths,
There is no moral relativsm here. There is an issue of dealing with a very determined fanatical enemy and trying to foil his plans.

Torture means we're adopting the morals of our enemies. And that means we are surrendering the moral high ground. We have fought other foes, just as ruthless as Al Qeida. But we did not adopt their morality as a paradigm for defeating them. Only people with ambiguous morals in the first place could support abandoning our own morality for that of the enemy. Therefore, those who argue that Al Qeida is immoral therefore we must be immoral too are, in fact, practicing moral relativism.

You seem to be having trouble with this.
Let's start simply: how do you define torture?

Using physical pain as a means of interrogation. Cruel and unusual punishment. Pretty clear cut.

They don't use pain they use mental anguish. That's legal.

Inserting probes into different body orifices, waterboarding, stress positions. Are these things not painful?

 

[Nosmo King]

What would Jesus do? I thought Christians were supposed to try to act like Jesus. LOL!

I do believe I recognize some screen names here, that are from the religious forum.

Republicans think anything less than crucifixion is not torture

Jesus took it....Why can't you?

Endorsing torture, endorsing harsh police tactics. Conservative small government types think the use of agents of the government should be harsh and uncompromising. Does anyone else smell hypocrisy cooking?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

You've clearly never been beaten in your life. Besides which you were asked for evidence that anyone was beaten. A link would also be nice.

I provided a link and several cites from the link.

Jesus. You really do have your eyes clamped shut, don't you.

Slaps, beatings, wallings, shackling a prisoner in a standing position until the prisoner required medical treatment, and then pumping the prisoner full of blood thinners to make him able to stand in a shackled position even longer.

It's all there. RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE, willfully blind monkey.

No you didn't provide a link so we can verify the accuracy of your source. And you still haven't established that it actually occurred. It's like all the idiots who claim whites gave smallpox infested blankets to the Indians based on journal entries where military advisors discussed it as a possible tactic. Asserting that something actually occurred requires a higher standard of proof than you're providing. Waterboarding for example was actually rarely utilized, so we can't avoid the question of what strategies were actually used, nor assume that every tactic for which authorization was sought was actually used. Rise to the challenge or admit you lack sufficient evidence for your claim.

 

[The Rabbi]

So you see? You can find evidence of beatings and much more if...you know...you LOOK!

I didnt see a single piece of evidence of beating, except by one contractor, who was convicted of a felony over the incident and punished.
SO I'd say you've failed to prove your case.

 

[Camp]

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

havin

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

I don't consider it torture you dumber foolish fuck.

Having your fingernails pulled out, your balls hooked up to a car battery, being beaten with barbed wire now thats torture.

Enduring what McCain endured. Thats torture. Not the fear of drowning which is all waterboarding does.

Your a fool and an asshole.

No, water boarding is drowning. The person being water boarded is being drowned. The fear they experience is the fear of being drowned to death. A fear that the torturers will not stop the drowning in time to prevent death.

 

[The Rabbi]

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

So we must torture some of our military trainees too, because they also get waterboarded.
dunce

 

[The Rabbi]

The United States tortured prisoners. If you deny this, then you are one sick Nazi fuck. There is nothing more to say to you assholes. Just keep sucking off your totalitarian friends, but know you are exposing your true selves to the world.

If you think we tortured anyone you are one ninny socialist namby pamby fuck.

 

[The Rabbi]

What moral high ground did the victims at the Towers occupy? They were innocent people who unfortunately happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. There was nothing moral about their deaths,
There is no moral relativsm here. There is an issue of dealing with a very determined fanatical enemy and trying to foil his plans.

Torture means we're adopting the morals of our enemies. And that means we are surrendering the moral high ground. We have fought other foes, just as ruthless as Al Qeida. But we did not adopt their morality as a paradigm for defeating them. Only people with ambiguous morals in the first place could support abandoning our own morality for that of the enemy. Therefore, those who argue that Al Qeida is immoral therefore we must be immoral too are, in fact, practicing moral relativism.

You seem to be having trouble with this.
Let's start simply: how do you define torture?

Using physical pain as a means of interrogation. Cruel and unusual punishment. Pretty clear cut.

That would include handcuffing people during questioning. Which is standard procedure in most police departments.
And that is totally unrelated to cruel and unusual punishment.
You'll have to try again.

Handcuff are not necessarily a means of inducing pain during an interrogation. Do you think handcuff and water boarding are the same thing? You'll have to try again.

Handcufffs induce pain. Your definition of torture was inducing pain. Go back and rethink what torture means and we'll go from there.

 

[The Rabbi]

What moral high ground did the victims at the Towers occupy? They were innocent people who unfortunately happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. There was nothing moral about their deaths,
There is no moral relativsm here. There is an issue of dealing with a very determined fanatical enemy and trying to foil his plans.

Torture means we're adopting the morals of our enemies. And that means we are surrendering the moral high ground. We have fought other foes, just as ruthless as Al Qeida. But we did not adopt their morality as a paradigm for defeating them. Only people with ambiguous morals in the first place could support abandoning our own morality for that of the enemy. Therefore, those who argue that Al Qeida is immoral therefore we must be immoral too are, in fact, practicing moral relativism.

You seem to be having trouble with this.
Let's start simply: how do you define torture?

Using physical pain as a means of interrogation. Cruel and unusual punishment. Pretty clear cut.

They don't use pain they use mental anguish. That's legal.

Inserting probes into different body orifices, waterboarding, stress positions. Are these things not painful?

Being handcuffed. Being shoved in the back of a police cruiser. Being made to stand for a couple of hours for booking. Those are also painful.

 

[The Rabbi]

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

havin

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

I don't consider it torture you dumber foolish fuck.

Having your fingernails pulled out, your balls hooked up to a car battery, being beaten with barbed wire now thats torture.

Enduring what McCain endured. Thats torture. Not the fear of drowning which is all waterboarding does.

Your a fool and an asshole.

No, water boarding is drowning. The person being water boarded is being drowned. The fear they experience is the fear of being drowned to death. A fear that the torturers will not stop the drowning in time to prevent death.

But no one is actually drowned, which would defeat the purpose. Thus irrelevant.

 

[Nosmo King]

Torture means we're adopting the morals of our enemies. And that means we are surrendering the moral high ground. We have fought other foes, just as ruthless as Al Qeida. But we did not adopt their morality as a paradigm for defeating them. Only people with ambiguous morals in the first place could support abandoning our own morality for that of the enemy. Therefore, those who argue that Al Qeida is immoral therefore we must be immoral too are, in fact, practicing moral relativism.

You seem to be having trouble with this.
Let's start simply: how do you define torture?

Using physical pain as a means of interrogation. Cruel and unusual punishment. Pretty clear cut.

That would include handcuffing people during questioning. Which is standard procedure in most police departments.
And that is totally unrelated to cruel and unusual punishment.
You'll have to try again.

Handcuff are not necessarily a means of inducing pain during an interrogation. Do you think handcuff and water boarding are the same thing? You'll have to try again.

Handcufffs induce pain. Your definition of torture was inducing pain. Go back and rethink what torture means and we'll go from there.

Cops will cuff perps. Do they then go and waterboard them too? Do the cops put perps into stress positions for hours at a time? Do they insert probes into various body orifices?

Do you actually believe that handcuff and water boarding are not different?

How much scrambling should I let you try before I call you on the bullshit you're slinging?

 

[The Rabbi]

You seem to be having trouble with this.
Let's start simply: how do you define torture?

Using physical pain as a means of interrogation. Cruel and unusual punishment. Pretty clear cut.

That would include handcuffing people during questioning. Which is standard procedure in most police departments.
And that is totally unrelated to cruel and unusual punishment.
You'll have to try again.

Handcuff are not necessarily a means of inducing pain during an interrogation. Do you think handcuff and water boarding are the same thing? You'll have to try again.

Handcufffs induce pain. Your definition of torture was inducing pain. Go back and rethink what torture means and we'll go from there.

Cops will cuff perps. Do they then go and waterboard them too? Do the cops put perps into stress positions for hours at a time? Do they insert probes into various body orifices?

Do you actually believe that handcuff and water boarding are not different?

How much scrambling should I let you try before I call you on the bullshit you're slinging?

I am trying to get you to understand that your definition of "torture" would include things routinely done in police work, and thus the definition sucks.
Try again.

 

[TooTall]

I bet suicide bombing the terrorists would be pretty effective. What do you think cons? Or are you gonna be pussies about that too?

Are you volunteering for suicide duty?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

What would Jesus do? I thought Christians were supposed to try to act like Jesus. LOL!

I do believe I recognize some screen names here, that are from the religious forum.

Republicans think anything less than crucifixion is not torture

Jesus took it....Why can't you?

Endorsing torture, endorsing harsh police tactics. Conservative small government types think the use of agents of the government should be harsh and uncompromising. Does anyone else smell hypocrisy cooking?

Yes. It's redolent of droning people overseas and anyone else unfortunate enough to be close by. But as long as it's authorized by a Nobel Peace prize winner, right?

 

[Claudette]

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

havin

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

I don't consider it torture you dumber foolish fuck.

Having your fingernails pulled out, your balls hooked up to a car battery, being beaten with barbed wire now thats torture.

Enduring what McCain endured. Thats torture. Not the fear of drowning which is all waterboarding does.

Your a fool and an asshole.

No, water boarding is drowning. The person being water boarded is being drowned. The fear they experience is the fear of being drowned to death. A fear that the torturers will not stop the drowning in time to prevent death.

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

havin

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

I don't consider it torture you dumber foolish fuck.

Having your fingernails pulled out, your balls hooked up to a car battery, being beaten with barbed wire now thats torture.

Enduring what McCain endured. Thats torture. Not the fear of drowning which is all waterboarding does.

Your a fool and an asshole.

No, water boarding is drowning. The person being water boarded is being drowned. The fear they experience is the fear of being drowned to death. A fear that the torturers will not stop the drowning in time to prevent death.

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

havin

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

Waterboarding is a long way from beating or torturing and beheading.

Waterboarding IS torture, you dumb sick fuck.

It was a matter of US policy that waterboarding is torture...until the Führer Bush came along. We sentenced a Japanese officer from WWII to hard labor for waterboarding prisoners.

I don't consider it torture you dumber foolish fuck.

Having your fingernails pulled out, your balls hooked up to a car battery, being beaten with barbed wire now thats torture.

Enduring what McCain endured. Thats torture. Not the fear of drowning which is all waterboarding does.

Your a fool and an asshole.

No, water boarding is drowning. The person being water boarded is being drowned. The fear they experience is the fear of being drowned to death. A fear that the torturers will not stop the drowning in time to prevent death.

Nope. Its the sensation of drowing and doctors are right there to make sure nothing happens.

We Americans are to soft to actually torture someone and I agree with that policy. I would never condone someone have their balls hooked up to a batter, have their fingernails removed or be beaten with barbed wire. Thats real torture and I would never condone that being used on anyone.

I just don't happen to believe waterboarding is torture and have no problem with waterboarding those dirtbags. Other than that my first preference to to kill the bastards.

 

[Nosmo King]

Using physical pain as a means of interrogation. Cruel and unusual punishment. Pretty clear cut.

That would include handcuffing people during questioning. Which is standard procedure in most police departments.
And that is totally unrelated to cruel and unusual punishment.
You'll have to try again.

Handcuff are not necessarily a means of inducing pain during an interrogation. Do you think handcuff and water boarding are the same thing? You'll have to try again.

Handcufffs induce pain. Your definition of torture was inducing pain. Go back and rethink what torture means and we'll go from there.

Cops will cuff perps. Do they then go and waterboard them too? Do the cops put perps into stress positions for hours at a time? Do they insert probes into various body orifices?

Do you actually believe that handcuff and water boarding are not different?

How much scrambling should I let you try before I call you on the bullshit you're slinging?

I am trying to get you to understand that your definition of "torture" would include things routinely done in police work, and thus the definition sucks.
Try again.

Apprehension, detention and control are not interrogation. You seem confused as usual. Try again.

 

[Nosmo King]

What would Jesus do? I thought Christians were supposed to try to act like Jesus. LOL!

I do believe I recognize some screen names here, that are from the religious forum.

Republicans think anything less than crucifixion is not torture

Jesus took it....Why can't you?

Endorsing torture, endorsing harsh police tactics. Conservative small government types think the use of agents of the government should be harsh and uncompromising. Does anyone else smell hypocrisy cooking?

Yes. It's redolent of droning people overseas and anyone else unfortunate enough to be close by. But as long as it's authorized by a Nobel Peace prize winner, right?

The CIA kept Bush in the dark (not that keeping Bush in the dark is a terribly difficult thing to do). They lied to Congress, they lied to the American public.

But my point, which you missed in spectacular fashion, is Conservatives, the folks who want smaller less intrusive government, are hell bent to get police forces and CIA and contractors to be as intrusive as possible!

Isn't that curious? Isn't that hypocritical?

 

[The Rabbi]

That would include handcuffing people during questioning. Which is standard procedure in most police departments.
And that is totally unrelated to cruel and unusual punishment.
You'll have to try again.

Handcuff are not necessarily a means of inducing pain during an interrogation. Do you think handcuff and water boarding are the same thing? You'll have to try again.

Handcufffs induce pain. Your definition of torture was inducing pain. Go back and rethink what torture means and we'll go from there.

Cops will cuff perps. Do they then go and waterboard them too? Do the cops put perps into stress positions for hours at a time? Do they insert probes into various body orifices?

Do you actually believe that handcuff and water boarding are not different?

How much scrambling should I let you try before I call you on the bullshit you're slinging?

I am trying to get you to understand that your definition of "torture" would include things routinely done in police work, and thus the definition sucks.
Try again.

Apprehension, detention and control are not interrogation. You seem confused as usual. Try again.

No, you are the one who is confused.
I ask what your definition of torture is, and reply anything that inflicts pain.
I point out routine police work falls under that definition and you need a better defintion. ANd you punk out and deflect to something else.
See the problem here?

 

[The Rabbi]

What would Jesus do? I thought Christians were supposed to try to act like Jesus. LOL!

I do believe I recognize some screen names here, that are from the religious forum.

Republicans think anything less than crucifixion is not torture

Jesus took it....Why can't you?

Endorsing torture, endorsing harsh police tactics. Conservative small government types think the use of agents of the government should be harsh and uncompromising. Does anyone else smell hypocrisy cooking?

Yes. It's redolent of droning people overseas and anyone else unfortunate enough to be close by. But as long as it's authorized by a Nobel Peace prize winner, right?

The CIA kept Bush in the dark (not that keeping Bush in the dark is a terribly difficult thing to do). They lied to Congress, they lied to the American public.

But my point, which you missed in spectacular fashion, is Conservatives, the folks who want smaller less intrusive government, are hell bent to get police forces and CIA and contractors to be as intrusive as possible!

Isn't that curious? Isn't that hypocritical?

The CIA did no such thing. They informed Congress and the members were free to ask questions. That they didnt want to hear the answers is their own fault.
Conservatives believe in a strong national defense. Did you miss the part that all of this is to elicit information to make the US safer? Or did you think this was some sort of jobs program by the Bush Administration?

 

[Nosmo King]

Handcuff are not necessarily a means of inducing pain during an interrogation. Do you think handcuff and water boarding are the same thing? You'll have to try again.

Handcufffs induce pain. Your definition of torture was inducing pain. Go back and rethink what torture means and we'll go from there.

Cops will cuff perps. Do they then go and waterboard them too? Do the cops put perps into stress positions for hours at a time? Do they insert probes into various body orifices?

Do you actually believe that handcuff and water boarding are not different?

How much scrambling should I let you try before I call you on the bullshit you're slinging?

I am trying to get you to understand that your definition of "torture" would include things routinely done in police work, and thus the definition sucks.
Try again.

Apprehension, detention and control are not interrogation. You seem confused as usual. Try again.

No, you are the one who is confused.
I ask what your definition of torture is, and reply anything that inflicts pain.
I point out routine police work falls under that definition and you need a better defintion. ANd you punk out and deflect to something else.
See the problem here?

My definition, which is still plain to see, had you the guts, integrity and smarts to do so, say torture is using physical pain as a means of interrogation.

You, confused and befuddled as you usually are, are trying to put words ion my mouth at best, demonstrating an acute lack of comprehension at worst.

Try again.