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I'm really going to address the highlighted part as I don't have much problem with anything else (with a few quibbles).I run my own business, and after years and years of hard work I got it to the point where I can get a job AND run my business....so I decided to become a teacher. I've been teaching since February and what I've found STUNS me. Here's a list of the main problems I've encountered (I teach at a public high school for the record):
-Parents lack of interest/involvement with students. I had roughly 150 students and on teacher conference night where parents come in and meet with their teachers I had a total of THREE parents come in. THREE. (I teach a requirement for graduation btw).
-When I call home to parents about students misbehaving or not doing their work most (not all) of the parents don't care, they say it's my job and problem to deal with. So when I address it with the students their response is that their parents don't care, so they don't care.
-Points for trying. This drives me CRAZY. We're encouraged to give students points for simply trying! I have students asking me why they have C's or D's-and they point out that they do all of their work. I tell them that if they give me "C work", they're going to get a "C". MANY students complain at this and expect an "A" just for doing all of their work. The (obvious) problem is that this doesn't exist in the "real world".
-Extra time. Some students who're struggling get granted extra time (under law), where I have to give them as much time as they need to complete work/tests/etc. This may be PC, but once again the problem is that this will NEVER happen for them in the "real world"
-One standard for everybody. Different classes have different personalities and different students learn at different paces/in different ways. But virtually everything has to be taught at a specific pace and in a specific way--the problem is that you can't expect 25 kids to learn at the same pace AND in the same way (let alone 150).
-The teacher's union. Luckily I live in a right to work state. I haven't had any real interaction with the actual union so I wont comment on that, BUT there are a few teachers in my department who (literally) carry around their contracts form the teacher's union and if they're asked to do something that's not on there-they'll refuse to do it. Such as putting books away at the end of the school year, or showing up 15 mins to work early for a duty (bus ramp/something similar). And you'd think that they were asked to run a marathon. The complaining blows me away. And then they wonder why teachers will less "experience" (in terms of years) get promoted to APs or Principals.
-Lack of control over situations. As a teacher I was told to NEVER touch a student. Which to me makes 100% sense. I'll give students a high five-but that's IT. The obvious problem comes about during fights, what do we do? I was instructed that even if one student is on top of the other kid and have them pinned against the ground and beating the kid to a bloody pulp that I am NOT to pull the kid off of the other. I have to call down to the main office and wait for our officer (we have a LEO on campus) or an AP/someone else to resolve the situation. Basically we're not allowed to grab a student by the shoulders and pull them off of another student who's getting the crap kicked out of them....because of fear of a lawsuit. Luckily I have complete control over my classroom, but this can (and has) happened to other teachers before.
-Teachers just clocking in. I think this bothers me the most. I'm usually at my school an extra hour or so (depending on the day) after we can leave. And I'm usually there about a half hour before we have to be. Some teachers book and just bolt. Teaching isn't a career where you should be doing this in my opinion.
-Students refusing to do work, and who fail without caring. I've had students with a 5.6% and 11.4% in class and BRAG about it. They think it's cool to get bad grades. And yet many out there are ready to subsidize them when they're out of highschool. They'll tell you that somehow "we" (society, teachers, school, etc). have let them down....because they wont admit that they brought it upon themselves. There's no accountability. I've seen quite a few kids drop-out and there's always 2 reasons (I've spoken with more seasoned teachers and they agree): 1) They don't show up to school. 2) They don't care about their grades.
I know I've done nothing but complain in this thread, but it's just very disheartening to see all of these obvious problems in my very limited experience and to see that the "solution" is by throwing more money at schools (it's not), or coddling the students. The coddling of kids is going to be a huge downfall for them. It's a crutch.
In the real world, if you are required to produce something, on time, the employer or anyone else is not going to care that you learn at a different rate. The expectation is that you meet goals set by someone (a job, teacher, university, government) and that you meet those goals; or you fail. This falls under the previous paragraph you had in which you complain about being given extra time. In the real world, extra time means you have failed and it is very likely that this failure will be held against you in some form in the future.
Listen asshat- I don't like people who lie for politics. So, get an argument together or STFU and sit down.
So let me get this straight you think that I would actually take the time to make up an entire story for a small forum on the Internet to discuss a topic with a total of 4-5 strangers that I'll never meet in person....just for the sake of "politics"? Really? I think one of the following:
-You have no life so to you it makes sense that somebody would actually do the above.
-You're very paranoid
-You're resorting to a lazy argument and are going after the poster(s) instead of the actual content
I assure you that I have better things to do than to start this thread based on a "lie", AND I certainly have much more better things to do than to "prove" myself to a complete stranger on an online forum.
Believe me or not--I really don't care.
I don't. Nothing that you have said in the last seven pages indicates that you have had any courses in education or comprehend the challenges in education.
I understand that. However, in order to address the cascading problems that exist in today's public education system would require of Me a doctoral thesis. So, I am going to limit the perspective to one in which the premise is that public education should focus on getting our young people the education necessary to cope with the realities of what will happen when they enter the adult world of business.I'm really going to address the highlighted part as I don't have much problem with anything else (with a few quibbles).I run my own business, and after years and years of hard work I got it to the point where I can get a job AND run my business....so I decided to become a teacher. I've been teaching since February and what I've found STUNS me. Here's a list of the main problems I've encountered (I teach at a public high school for the record):
-Parents lack of interest/involvement with students. I had roughly 150 students and on teacher conference night where parents come in and meet with their teachers I had a total of THREE parents come in. THREE. (I teach a requirement for graduation btw).
-When I call home to parents about students misbehaving or not doing their work most (not all) of the parents don't care, they say it's my job and problem to deal with. So when I address it with the students their response is that their parents don't care, so they don't care.
-Points for trying. This drives me CRAZY. We're encouraged to give students points for simply trying! I have students asking me why they have C's or D's-and they point out that they do all of their work. I tell them that if they give me "C work", they're going to get a "C". MANY students complain at this and expect an "A" just for doing all of their work. The (obvious) problem is that this doesn't exist in the "real world".
-Extra time. Some students who're struggling get granted extra time (under law), where I have to give them as much time as they need to complete work/tests/etc. This may be PC, but once again the problem is that this will NEVER happen for them in the "real world"
-One standard for everybody. Different classes have different personalities and different students learn at different paces/in different ways. But virtually everything has to be taught at a specific pace and in a specific way--the problem is that you can't expect 25 kids to learn at the same pace AND in the same way (let alone 150).
-The teacher's union. Luckily I live in a right to work state. I haven't had any real interaction with the actual union so I wont comment on that, BUT there are a few teachers in my department who (literally) carry around their contracts form the teacher's union and if they're asked to do something that's not on there-they'll refuse to do it. Such as putting books away at the end of the school year, or showing up 15 mins to work early for a duty (bus ramp/something similar). And you'd think that they were asked to run a marathon. The complaining blows me away. And then they wonder why teachers will less "experience" (in terms of years) get promoted to APs or Principals.
-Lack of control over situations. As a teacher I was told to NEVER touch a student. Which to me makes 100% sense. I'll give students a high five-but that's IT. The obvious problem comes about during fights, what do we do? I was instructed that even if one student is on top of the other kid and have them pinned against the ground and beating the kid to a bloody pulp that I am NOT to pull the kid off of the other. I have to call down to the main office and wait for our officer (we have a LEO on campus) or an AP/someone else to resolve the situation. Basically we're not allowed to grab a student by the shoulders and pull them off of another student who's getting the crap kicked out of them....because of fear of a lawsuit. Luckily I have complete control over my classroom, but this can (and has) happened to other teachers before.
-Teachers just clocking in. I think this bothers me the most. I'm usually at my school an extra hour or so (depending on the day) after we can leave. And I'm usually there about a half hour before we have to be. Some teachers book and just bolt. Teaching isn't a career where you should be doing this in my opinion.
-Students refusing to do work, and who fail without caring. I've had students with a 5.6% and 11.4% in class and BRAG about it. They think it's cool to get bad grades. And yet many out there are ready to subsidize them when they're out of highschool. They'll tell you that somehow "we" (society, teachers, school, etc). have let them down....because they wont admit that they brought it upon themselves. There's no accountability. I've seen quite a few kids drop-out and there's always 2 reasons (I've spoken with more seasoned teachers and they agree): 1) They don't show up to school. 2) They don't care about their grades.
I know I've done nothing but complain in this thread, but it's just very disheartening to see all of these obvious problems in my very limited experience and to see that the "solution" is by throwing more money at schools (it's not), or coddling the students. The coddling of kids is going to be a huge downfall for them. It's a crutch.
In the real world, if you are required to produce something, on time, the employer or anyone else is not going to care that you learn at a different rate. The expectation is that you meet goals set by someone (a job, teacher, university, government) and that you meet those goals; or you fail. This falls under the previous paragraph you had in which you complain about being given extra time. In the real world, extra time means you have failed and it is very likely that this failure will be held against you in some form in the future.
I agree with your point, but the problem is that in classes you could have a wide range of students on completely different reading levels. So at the very start of the year you could have 1/3 of the class being lower readers, 1/3 in the middle and another 1/3 in the higher range. Who do you design your lessons for?
I understand that. However, in order to address the cascading problems that exist in today's public education system would require of Me a doctoral thesis. So, I am going to limit the perspective to one in which the premise is that public education should focus on getting our young people the education necessary to cope with the realities of what will happen when they enter the adult world of business.I'm really going to address the highlighted part as I don't have much problem with anything else (with a few quibbles).
In the real world, if you are required to produce something, on time, the employer or anyone else is not going to care that you learn at a different rate. The expectation is that you meet goals set by someone (a job, teacher, university, government) and that you meet those goals; or you fail. This falls under the previous paragraph you had in which you complain about being given extra time. In the real world, extra time means you have failed and it is very likely that this failure will be held against you in some form in the future.
I agree with your point, but the problem is that in classes you could have a wide range of students on completely different reading levels. So at the very start of the year you could have 1/3 of the class being lower readers, 1/3 in the middle and another 1/3 in the higher range. Who do you design your lessons for?
This means that an employer may have low educational standards for the employees they hire to perform specific tasks. They are not going to care that some are less educated than others, only that the work is performed to the standard they have set.
This, to Me, has to be one of the first and biggest lesson to be drummed into young people from the 6th grade onward. Once they understand that, it is very possible they will actually begin to see the real benefit of trying to be smarter than the people around them. If for no other reason than it benefits them reputation-wise.
Nothing that you have said in the last seven pages indicates that you have had any courses in education or comprehend the challenges in education.
Nothing that you have said in the last seven pages indicates that you have had any courses in education or comprehend the challenges in education.
The same could be said of you. Why the big act? What are you hiding, you faker?
I run my own business, and after years and years of hard work I got it to the point where I can get a job AND run my business....so I decided to become a teacher
I agree with your point, but the problem is that in classes you could have a wide range of students on completely different reading levels. So at the very start of the year you could have 1/3 of the class being lower readers, 1/3 in the middle and another 1/3 in the higher range. Who do you design your lessons for?
Listen asshat- I don't like people who lie for politics. So, get an argument together or STFU and sit down.
So let me get this straight you think that I would actually take the time to make up an entire story for a small forum on the Internet to discuss a topic with a total of 4-5 strangers that I'll never meet in person....just for the sake of "politics"? Really? I think one of the following:
-You have no life so to you it makes sense that somebody would actually do the above.
-You're very paranoid
-You're resorting to a lazy argument and are going after the poster(s) instead of the actual content
I assure you that I have better things to do than to start this thread based on a "lie", AND I certainly have much more better things to do than to "prove" myself to a complete stranger on an online forum.
Believe me or not--I really don't care.
I don't. Nothing that you have said in the last seven pages indicates that you have had any courses in education or comprehend the challenges in education.
So let me get this straight you think that I would actually take the time to make up an entire story for a small forum on the Internet to discuss a topic with a total of 4-5 strangers that I'll never meet in person....just for the sake of "politics"? Really? I think one of the following:
-You have no life so to you it makes sense that somebody would actually do the above.
-You're very paranoid
-You're resorting to a lazy argument and are going after the poster(s) instead of the actual content
I assure you that I have better things to do than to start this thread based on a "lie", AND I certainly have much more better things to do than to "prove" myself to a complete stranger on an online forum.
Believe me or not--I really don't care.
I don't. Nothing that you have said in the last seven pages indicates that you have had any courses in education or comprehend the challenges in education.
That pretty much describes the average teacher.
I don't. Nothing that you have said in the last seven pages indicates that you have had any courses in education or comprehend the challenges in education.
That pretty much describes the average teacher.
It reads like something ripped from the headlines of a Faux news report. You don't find it the least bit odd? At all? Basic concepts missing and you don't find this the least bit odd?
I don't. Nothing that you have said in the last seven pages indicates that you have had any courses in education or comprehend the challenges in education.
That pretty much describes the average teacher.
It reads like something ripped from the headlines of a Faux news report. You don't find it the least bit odd? At all? Basic concepts missing and you don't find this the least bit odd?
That pretty much describes the average teacher.
It reads like something ripped from the headlines of a Faux news report. You don't find it the least bit odd? At all? Basic concepts missing and you don't find this the least bit odd?
Considering the audience, no. The audience of this message board is the general population, not just education professionals. Thus the over use of education jargon would be a bad idea.
Also, you posts on this thread provide no evidence that you have any more knowlege about education and teaching than he does.
I run my own business, and after years and years of hard work I got it to the point where I can get a job AND run my business....so I decided to become a teacher
I agree with your point, but the problem is that in classes you could have a wide range of students on completely different reading levels. So at the very start of the year you could have 1/3 of the class being lower readers, 1/3 in the middle and another 1/3 in the higher range. Who do you design your lessons for?
in your business you must have had a very niche market of customers. Many businesses cater to a wide variety of customers. Successful businesses are flexible to the demands of customers. Experienced teachers will teach to the majority skill set, then augment the lesson spending time with individuals that need more help.
Not rocket science.
It reads like something ripped from the headlines of a Faux news report. You don't find it the least bit odd? At all? Basic concepts missing and you don't find this the least bit odd?
Considering the audience, no. The audience of this message board is the general population, not just education professionals. Thus the over use of education jargon would be a bad idea.
Also, you posts on this thread provide no evidence that you have any more knowlege about education and teaching than he does.
This is what I think is being lost in translation. It was the real purpose of why I mentioned my business background...to highlight the point that I think most people without a background in education would be shocked, just like I was. But of course the other poster decided to deflect that topic and say that that was me suggesting that the public educational system should be run like a business.
But you have to keep in mind that not all schools are equal. For example I had one class full of seniors where they didn't know the word "bias", or they couldn't write a paragraph without a plethora of errors...forget about an essay. They couldn't tell you difference between "their" "there" or "they're". All of those students would have been the ones that needed more help.
JT8691: Aside from AP classes, does your school segregate students by ability level?
But you have to keep in mind that not all schools are equal. For example I had one class full of seniors where they didn't know the word "bias", or they couldn't write a paragraph without a plethora of errors...forget about an essay. They couldn't tell you difference between "their" "there" or "they're". All of those students would have been the ones that needed more help.
You started teaching in February in more than one school?
That's amazing. How many schools have you taught in during the past 4 months?
JT8691: Aside from AP classes, does your school segregate students by ability level?
AP, Honors, and Regular, ESE, etc. But in reg classes you can have students who greatly fluctuate in reading levels. Also in the 9th grade classes you can have students in there solely based on their behavior (because middle schools in my district give out conduct grades).
But you have to keep in mind that not all schools are equal. For example I had one class full of seniors where they didn't know the word "bias", or they couldn't write a paragraph without a plethora of errors...forget about an essay. They couldn't tell you difference between "their" "there" or "they're". All of those students would have been the ones that needed more help.
You started teaching in February in more than one school?
That's amazing. How many schools have you taught in during the past 4 months?
Are you suggesting that all schools are equal?
States have different titles of schools (specifically those in lower socioeconomic areas). Is that not true?
That pretty much describes the average teacher.
It reads like something ripped from the headlines of a Faux news report. You don't find it the least bit odd? At all? Basic concepts missing and you don't find this the least bit odd?
Well, I've already admitted that I did an internet search for phrases in the OP that might indicate it was some cut-n-paste or a bot. You can try the same and perhaps be more successful, I found nothing. Obviously I found the OP somewhat suspicious.
Also suspicious is the greater concern the OP has demonstreated defending your accusations, and the focus on more global issues (like unions), rather than those that actually effect the classroom teacher's POV: I spent 6 years as a teacher and administrator, and the fact that I was or was not unionized never crossed my mind as something that effected my job or the system that employed me.
However, real or not; what is the relevance?
There are MANY teachers who, despite whatever training they may have, were unable to grasp basic concepts or implement them effectively. As evidence, one simply needs to access attrition rates. Few teach more than five (5) years. The OP has only taught since February, so I would not expect him to be terribly organized, or for students to be on their best behaviour. If he continues to be "frustrated," then I doubt he'll last more than a year or two.
JT8691: Aside from AP classes, does your school segregate students by ability level?
AP, Honors, and Regular, ESE, etc. But in reg classes you can have students who greatly fluctuate in reading levels. Also in the 9th grade classes you can have students in there solely based on their behavior (because middle schools in my district give out conduct grades).
You started teaching in February in more than one school?
That's amazing. How many schools have you taught in during the past 4 months?
Are you suggesting that all schools are equal?
States have different titles of schools (specifically those in lower socioeconomic areas). Is that not true?
First, I'm suggesting that unless you've taught in more than one school, that you would not be able to compare your experience with any other school. The fact that you would detail the example, without contrast, is frankly a little weird.
Second, I have not made any such comparative suggestion myself, but you could quite easily find yourself in different schools, but with the same classroom challenges. Conversely, you could find yourself in very similar schools, and find different classroom challenges.
Finally, I have no idea what the phrase "States have different titles of schools," is supposed to mean. Each school is named differently. Depending on the state, each school may be given a rating, or "grade" based on a variety of rubrics, but none is based on the economic class of the students.
However I would admit that lower rated schools serve lower socioeconomic areas.
Regardless, classroom management techniques of either high or low rated schools are the same.
