Teacher's view on public education system's problems

[Unkotare]

Asking questions defines me as an asshole? Boy, are you in for a ride.

You asked no questions about the message but rather the messenger. In this case whether the OP is what he says he is has little bearing on the validity of the message (but I suspect you knew that). You can read thousands of similar stories right here on the Internet.

Yes, dear. All of the alleged issues are textbook. Everything from the parents to the liability issues. What this tells me is that those classes were never taken. Simply because an ID shows up bearing a message that you want to hear does not make it so.

And you may not want to hear that you're a douchebag, but it is so. Why not take the opportunity to ask a teacher a question and possibly learn something? You could use it.

 

[Samson]

No, being an asshole with no merit, no original ideas and nothing constructive to say makes you an asshole

That pretty much covers the USMB membership.

He's on ignore.

I'm certain he's devestated.

 

[Disir]

That pretty much covers the USMB membership.

He's on ignore.

I'm certain he's devestated.

I'm pretty sure he's not.

 

[JT8691]

Asking questions defines me as an asshole? Boy, are you in for a ride.

You asked no questions about the message but rather the messenger. In this case whether the OP is what he says he is has little bearing on the validity of the message (but I suspect you knew that). You can read thousands of similar stories right here on the Internet.

Yes, dear. All of the alleged issues are textbook. Everything from the parents to the liability issues. What this tells me is that those classes were never taken. Simply because an ID shows up bearing a message that you want to hear does not make it so.

You either ignored or missed a previous post of mine. I'll do you the favor and quote it below:

To be honest with you I don't care if you think that I'm a real educator, or if I'm making it all up. Whatever you choose to think is your own business. This isn't an interrogation. If you think I'm full of crap-fine I really don't care.

What makes you question me though? What portion of my post generates even the slightest bit of doubt to you?

Good. I still do.

The entire post is doubtful. But, the timing sure is right up there with tenure. Nay?

Much of what you have up there is covered in the basic education courses. It's text book. Yet, it's still mystifying.

Ok let me ask you higher level questions then. How and why does my "entire post" seem doubtful to you?

PS: As far as tenure goes...If you actually read my post you'd clearly see that I made it crystal clear that I just started this past February.

 

[jillian]

It's working as planned.

Our educational system was sabotaged and is now designed to "Graduate" generations of permanently uneducated underachievers who must rely on the government for their sustenance, vote Democrat and then go out and have children of their own.

It's a perfect system, it's just not geared to make kids succeed

nice hypothesis. bummer that it's all false.

and if what you were saying were true, it wouldn't be the red states with the worst educational levels and highest poverty rates.

but if it makes you feel better....

 

[Samson]

It's working as planned.

Our educational system was sabotaged and is now designed to "Graduate" generations of permanently uneducated underachievers who must rely on the government for their sustenance, vote Democrat and then go out and have children of their own.

It's a perfect system, it's just not geared to make kids succeed

nice hypothesis. bummer that it's all false.

and if what you were saying were true, it wouldn't be the red states with the worst educational levels and highest poverty rates.

but if it makes you feel better....

Hi rdean!

This tread was missing the partisan wonk appeal: Thanks!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's working as planned.

Our educational system was sabotaged and is now designed to "Graduate" generations of permanently uneducated underachievers who must rely on the government for their sustenance, vote Democrat and then go out and have children of their own.

It's a perfect system, it's just not geared to make kids succeed

nice hypothesis. bummer that it's all false.

and if what you were saying were true, it wouldn't be the red states with the worst educational levels and highest poverty rates.

but if it makes you feel better....

It's a NATIONAL PROBLEM and one that we must address ASAP.

It's not a Red or Blue State problem, it's an American problem. Our kids deserve better. They should be taught how to think about things and not what to think; they should be taught how to succeed and not that success is unfair. The system need to be reformed from the top down

 

[regent]

My high school had a 75% dropout rate, those few that graduated could do reasonably well, but then in fifties a new concept came into our culture, juvenile delinquency. Bingo, schools now had to keep kids in school rather than allow them on the streets. Tests, texts, assignments all made easier, we now have the dropout rate reduced significantly but the adjustments were not free.

 

[Disir]

To be honest with you I don't care if you think that I'm a real educator, or if I'm making it all up. Whatever you choose to think is your own business. This isn't an interrogation. If you think I'm full of crap-fine I really don't care.

What makes you question me though? What portion of my post generates even the slightest bit of doubt to you?

Good. I still do.

The entire post is doubtful. But, the timing sure is right up there with tenure. Nay?

Much of what you have up there is covered in the basic education courses. It's text book. Yet, it's still mystifying.

Ok let me ask you higher level questions then. How and why does my "entire post" seem doubtful to you?

PS: As far as tenure goes...If you actually read my post you'd clearly see that I made it crystal clear that I just started this past February.

Public education is not a business. It should not be run as one.

There are several reasons that parents don't show up to meet the teachers. None of them are acknowledged. The primary reason is that you represent an authority figure and if the parents had any issues when they went to school then they carry that with them via their own children. If it's a meet the teacher night that does not delve into the learners progress then it is considered a waste of time. If they are employed and work those hours, they won't show up. If they have other children and/or no transportation then they may not show up. If they think their kid is a holy terror then it's another round of humiliation and they won't show. There are those that won't show up because they are high. Those are the breaks.

Inclusion. Yep, there is a name for it. It's the districts way of saying that they don't want to pay for special needs teachers. In fact, many of them should not even be mainstreamed. Some are easy enough providing the learner has already been taught how to work with a specific disability (like dyslexia). That depends on when it was diagnosed and what steps were taken after (services that should have been in place before they get to your classroom). Time is the only issue if it's been done well. In fact, there are those that become speed readers.

Whole 'nother ballgame dealing with CAPD or severe cognitive delays. When the IEP reads pick a pencil up and move it across the desk then you have major problems. By the way, get that out in 55 minutes a day. In the first two instances (dyslexia and CAPD), they won't get "extra time" in the real world so they are learning how to adapt to that world so that they can "measure up" to the assholes that don't have to take any of this into consideration.

Are your instructional rubrics clear? Yep, there is a name for that also. That's where the criteria is set for a C paper. There shouldn't be any questions of what qualifies as a C paper. All bets are off if you continuously try to send paperwork up that says this kid is failing and the administration sends paperwork back down saying, "No."

Many adults complain when they do C work and don't get an A. In the real world, cutting corners pays pretty damn well. You didn't major in what you teach, amiright? When that doesn't play well then they turn to "office politics" or sabotage other people's work.

You don't know what purpose tenure serves? You have no idea of why it is in place? Liability not covered? I do find it rather odd that one who is solo in a class all day could make judgements about others who are solo in their classes all day.

 

[DGS49]

You can blame "society as a whole" for the decline in American public education (and believe me, there is great deterioration), but the greatest single negative factor is the posture taken by our largest teachers' unions (AFT and NEA). They have abandoned and emphatically rejected any semblance of professionalism and they function in EXACTLY THE SAME way as a labor union representing the most unskilled workers imaginable. They go to incredible lengths to ensure the retention of incompetent, lazy, and insubordinate teachers, they FIGHT any attempts to measure teacher performance and to link performance to compensation - unless the additional compensation is virtually guaranteed to go to the most senior union members.

Rather than being in the forefront of developing optimum curricula, tests, teaching methodologies, they do nothing but evaluate and criticize any new initiative based SOLELY on how it benefits the members. The only initiatives that they have any interest in whatsoever are the ones that provide less work, more money, or less responsibility for the teachers.

It does not have to be this way. There are professional unions both here and abroad that represent engineers and others, and which are working hand-in-hand with Management to make their employers more successful and profitable.

And this is why Teaching has gone from a respected, though underpaid, "profession" to one that is mightily resented by the majority of the American public - and the situation will get worse before it gets better, as we see our property taxes double over the next ten years to pay for their fucking pensions and retiree health benefits.

Blame society.

Right.

It is not difficult to see where the main problem lies.

 

[BobPlumb]

We just need to get all teachers a copy of that textbook that Disir has been referring to and all education problems will be solved.

 

[JT8691]

Public education is not a business. It should not be run as one.

Please quote where I suggested that public education should be run like a business. Thanks!

There are several reasons that parents don't show up to meet the teachers. None of them are acknowledged. The primary reason is that you represent an authority figure and if the parents had any issues when they went to school then they carry that with them via their own children. If it's a meet the teacher night that does not delve into the learners progress then it is considered a waste of time. If they are employed and work those hours, they won't show up. If they have other children and/or no transportation then they may not show up. If they think their kid is a holy terror then it's another round of humiliation and they won't show. There are those that won't show up because they are high. Those are the breaks.

Excuses. Parents have plenty of opportunities to meet teachers. And while some of those reasons may be valid for quite a bit of students....not roughly 122/125. If 1% of parents show up something is wrong.

Inclusion. Yep, there is a name for it. It's the districts way of saying that they don't want to pay for special needs teachers. In fact, many of them should not even be mainstreamed. Some are easy enough providing the learner has already been taught how to work with a specific disability (like dyslexia). That depends on when it was diagnosed and what steps were taken after (services that should have been in place before they get to your classroom). Time is the only issue if it's been done well. In fact, there are those that become speed readers.

Whole 'nother ballgame dealing with CAPD or severe cognitive delays. When the IEP reads pick a pencil up and move it across the desk then you have major problems. By the way, get that out in 55 minutes a day. In the first two instances (dyslexia and CAPD), they won't get "extra time" in the real world so they are learning how to adapt to that world so that they can "measure up" to the assholes that don't have to take any of this into consideration.

You can complain about the "assholes" that don't take disabilities into account in the "real world" all you want. But the reality is that society will NOT adapt to these students. They need to adapt to society. It may be harsh, it may be unpleasant to think about, it may not be PC....but it's the truth.

Are your instructional rubrics clear? Yep, there is a name for that also. That's where the criteria is set for a C paper. There shouldn't be any questions of what qualifies as a C paper. All bets are off if you continuously try to send paperwork up that says this kid is failing and the administration sends paperwork back down saying, "No."

Yes they are clear. However we're mandated to give them work from textbooks (that are obviously NOT papers). Defining words, practicing metaphors, etc. I think I made it clear what I meant by grades.

Many adults complain when they do C work and don't get an A. In the real world, cutting corners pays pretty damn well. You didn't major in what you teach, amiright? When that doesn't play well then they turn to "office politics" or sabotage other people's work.

Absolutely many adults complain when they do C work and don't get A's in the "real world". That's becoming a learned trait through the education system though (or at home). It doesn't make it any less of a problem. And when adults DO complain aobut C work not being an A in the "real world"....do they ever win? No. They don't. That's why it should be important to ease the students (and really society as a whole) out of the philosophy.

You don't know what purpose tenure serves? You have no idea of why it is in place? Liability not covered? I do find it rather odd that one who is solo in a class all day could make judgements about others who are solo in their classes all day.

Did I ever say I don't know what purpose tenure serves? Please fine me that quote...you're starting to develop a habit of putting words in my mouth. It makes your arguments look weak and desperate to be honest with you. I merely said that I don't believe in it--not that I didn't understand it.

 

[JT8691]

You can blame "society as a whole" for the decline in American public education (and believe me, there is great deterioration), but the greatest single negative factor is the posture taken by our largest teachers' unions (AFT and NEA). They have abandoned and emphatically rejected any semblance of professionalism and they function in EXACTLY THE SAME way as a labor union representing the most unskilled workers imaginable. They go to incredible lengths to ensure the retention of incompetent, lazy, and insubordinate teachers, they FIGHT any attempts to measure teacher performance and to link performance to compensation - unless the additional compensation is virtually guaranteed to go to the most senior union members.

Rather than being in the forefront of developing optimum curricula, tests, teaching methodologies, they do nothing but evaluate and criticize any new initiative based SOLELY on how it benefits the members. The only initiatives that they have any interest in whatsoever are the ones that provide less work, more money, or less responsibility for the teachers.

It does not have to be this way. There are professional unions both here and abroad that represent engineers and others, and which are working hand-in-hand with Management to make their employers more successful and profitable.

And this is why Teaching has gone from a respected, though underpaid, "profession" to one that is mightily resented by the majority of the American public - and the situation will get worse before it gets better, as we see our property taxes double over the next ten years to pay for their fucking pensions and retiree health benefits.

Blame society.

Right.

It is not difficult to see where the main problem lies.

It was very frustrating to see a co-worker of mine who's a teacher (literally) lose all of the work that students handed into them for the entire semester. That same person also complained about having to read tons of essays, and openly admits that they skim through the essays. I know this because that teacher has actually told me those things...and acted like it wasn't that big of a deal.

That person has seniority over MANY teachers who actually do their jobs well.

I don't think the unions are the only main problem...but they definitely are one of them.

There are some crappy teachers...some REALLY crappy teachers. But most teachers are good and bust their asses for the future of their children. It's not accurate to paint all teachers with a broad brush.

 

[Disir]

We just need to get all teachers a copy of that textbook that Disir has been referring to and all education problems will be solved.

No, Bob. It's not just one, it's several. Further, just playing along to agree with someone that tells you what you want to hear does not resolve issues. It merely reinforces your bias.

 

[Samson]

Excuses. Parents have plenty of opportunities to meet teachers. And while some of those reasons may be valid for quite a bit of students....not roughly 122/125. If 1% of parents show up something is wrong.

No.

It means only 1% of the parents think you may be doing something wrong.

If I were you, I'd be grateful.

Wait until 100% of parents show up: You'll see what I mean.

 

[Samson]

It was very frustrating to see a co-worker of mine who's a teacher (literally) lose all of the work that students handed into them for the entire semester. .

Well, stop watching your co-workers, and you'll be much less frustrated.

Teaching is one of the few opportunities people have to sequester themselves in their own room and do their job. Unless you're invited, do not come out. Make every attempt to eat lunch, grade papers, plan, whatever, in YOUR ROOM ALONE. If invited to a meeting, remain SILENT: Everything you say will be held against you.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I went to public school in the Bronx and my parents would never dare to miss a Parent teachers conference.

 

[Disir]

Public education is not a business. It should not be run as one.

Please quote where I suggested that public education should be run like a business. Thanks!

There are several reasons that parents don't show up to meet the teachers. None of them are acknowledged. The primary reason is that you represent an authority figure and if the parents had any issues when they went to school then they carry that with them via their own children. If it's a meet the teacher night that does not delve into the learners progress then it is considered a waste of time. If they are employed and work those hours, they won't show up. If they have other children and/or no transportation then they may not show up. If they think their kid is a holy terror then it's another round of humiliation and they won't show. There are those that won't show up because they are high. Those are the breaks.

Excuses. Parents have plenty of opportunities to meet teachers. And while some of those reasons may be valid for quite a bit of students....not roughly 122/125. If 1% of parents show up something is wrong.



You can complain about the "assholes" that don't take disabilities into account in the "real world" all you want. But the reality is that society will NOT adapt to these students. They need to adapt to society. It may be harsh, it may be unpleasant to think about, it may not be PC....but it's the truth.


Yes they are clear. However we're mandated to give them work from textbooks (that are obviously NOT papers). Defining words, practicing metaphors, etc. I think I made it clear what I meant by grades.

Many adults complain when they do C work and don't get an A. In the real world, cutting corners pays pretty damn well. You didn't major in what you teach, amiright? When that doesn't play well then they turn to "office politics" or sabotage other people's work.

Absolutely many adults complain when they do C work and don't get A's in the "real world". That's becoming a learned trait through the education system though (or at home). It doesn't make it any less of a problem. And when adults DO complain aobut C work not being an A in the "real world"....do they ever win? No. They don't. That's why it should be important to ease the students (and really society as a whole) out of the philosophy.

You don't know what purpose tenure serves? You have no idea of why it is in place? Liability not covered? I do find it rather odd that one who is solo in a class all day could make judgements about others who are solo in their classes all day.

Did I ever say I don't know what purpose tenure serves? Please fine me that quote...you're starting to develop a habit of putting words in my mouth. It makes your arguments look weak and desperate to be honest with you. I merely said that I don't believe in it--not that I didn't understand it.

I don't have to find an exact quote. It's insinuated in the first line of the OP. These are offered as credentials.
I run my own business, and after years and years of hard work I got it to the point where I can get a job AND run my business....so I decided to become a teacher. I've been teaching since February and what I've found STUNS me. Here's a list of the main problems I've encountered (I teach at a public high school for the record):

It's indicated here:

The teacher's union. Luckily I live in a right to work state.

It's indicated here:

End tenure of teachers. Not every teacher on tenure sucks. In fact most teachers at my schools are very good at what they do. There are a handful of ones who shouldn't be teachers though

It's indicated here:

Pay teachers based on performance.

Furthermore, Trying to say that people don't win by cutting corners or whining about C when they don't make an A is exactly how the world works. They do win. That's what the kids see in action. This is how it filters down. Oddly enough it is those higher up the socioeconomic ladder that have a knipshit. Those are the ones that have parents that come in and complain that you are holding the kid back from entering Stanford. Working class parents are most often ready to do a beat down on the kid.

And that union that is so despised? They are the ones fighting for you to have more control over the classroom. They are also the ones that are going to insist that you should be fairly investigated should a student fail or not have acquired the A and then make false accusations of sexual misconduct. If you are a male, it isn't a question of if that happens but when. Gee, again with libaility.


Too, those disabilities that will not be allowed in the "real world"? They are currently learning how to work with those disabilities via the schools so that those assholes won't be able to tell the difference. I'm not down with inclusion.

You can look down your nose all you want and call those excuses from the parents all you want. Doesn't change anything. These are people. People are messy. If people did what I thought they should do then we wouldn't be here. Some of the parents are intellectually challenged. Some are mentally ill. Some kids are truant because mom has younger kids that need to be watched while they work. Some parents are gang bangers. Some kids are in foster care because some parents are in prison or dead or they have been neglected/abused. Some kids live with family members that are bed ridden and have no control over the kids because..........they are bedridden. Some of the parents are drug addicts or heavy drinkers. Some parents are helicopter parents. Some are enablers. Some parents are overwhelmed. Some parents are so involved in the school that they use it for power. Some parents take the word of the administration and don't know how to navigate the schools to acquire testing for their kids because special education services require money.

The above IS the real world and the only way that you can pretend that it doesn't exist is if you make enough cash to separate yourself from the rest of society.

 

[Unkotare]

I wonder why 'Ditsy' there is so threatened by someone who actually teaches discussing the state of education today?

 

[JT8691]

I don't have to find an exact quote. It's insinuated in the first line of the OP. These are offered as credentials.
I run my own business, and after years and years of hard work I got it to the point where I can get a job AND run my business....so I decided to become a teacher. I've been teaching since February and what I've found STUNS me. Here's a list of the main problems I've encountered (I teach at a public high school for the record):

I stated that I run my own business to provide a little background. If you ASSUMED that I was suggesting that public education should be run like a business then you're incorrect. And we both know what assuming makes of you.

It's indicated here:


It's indicated here:

End tenure of teachers. Not every teacher on tenure sucks. In fact most teachers at my schools are very good at what they do. There are a handful of ones who shouldn't be teachers though

It's indicated here:

Pay teachers based on performance.

Once again you're not grasping the difference between "understanding" and "agreeing with". For example one can understand the arguments for the death penalty...but still not agree with its practice. This isn't a hard concept to grasp, if you're honestly having trouble to do so I suggest that you step back and think about it for a moment.

Furthermore, Trying to say that people don't win by cutting corners or whining about C when they don't make an A is exactly how the world works. They do win. That's what the kids see in action. This is how it filters down. Oddly enough it is those higher up the socioeconomic ladder that have a knipshit. Those are the ones that have parents that come in and complain that you are holding the kid back from entering Stanford. Working class parents are most often ready to do a beat down on the kid.

So you're suggesting that high school kids are studying or actual care about how corporate America operates? Have you been in a classroom since you were in high school? They're much more concerned with what party they're going to over the weekend, or about their significant other drama.

Also cutting corners tends NOT to work in the real world. It catches up with you. People who claim that others get ahead merely by "cutting corners" are using lazy way to explain the success of others, opposed for your own failure.

And that union that is so despised? They are the ones fighting for you to have more control over the classroom. They are also the ones that are going to insist that you should be fairly investigated should a student fail or not have acquired the A and then make false accusations of sexual misconduct. If you are a male, it isn't a question of if that happens but when. Gee, again with libaility.

Actually in my county female teachers are accused of sexual misconduct at a much higher rate than male teachers are. The headlines just aren't as negative, and it doesn't generate as much media attention. I can't speak about where you live, but where I live this is 100% the case.

They unions are also the ones who protect bad teachers, bad policies. Personally I want teachers to be paid based on performance. Like I said in my county we have bonuses if teachers achieve specific goals. Why should two teachers be compensated the same amount if they're doing two very different jobs? Where's the incentive for crappy teachers to do better?

Too, those disabilities that will not be allowed in the "real world"? They are currently learning how to work with those disabilities via the schools so that those assholes won't be able to tell the difference. I'm not down with inclusion.

Many of these disabilities you cannot simply "hide" from the real world. They're very real disabilities, but instead of trying to pull the wool over society's eyes....why not help the child be able to function in society under society's rules? It's a crappy thing I agree. But if you honestly think that society will EVER adapt to the students with disabilities....then you're being very naive.