Teacher's view on public education system's problems

[Esmeralda]

It's not a private definition. This is what educators have to do. It's called continuing education and it's on they have to pay for it.

Explain what you think continuing education means. Do you actually mean 'lifelong learning'?

Educators have to do what? Explain.

 

[Disir]

It's not a private definition. This is what educators have to do. It's called continuing education and it's on they have to pay for it.

Explain what you think continuing education means. Do you actually mean 'lifelong learning'?

I'm not talking about lifelong learning.

He is an educator, amiright? He knows precisely what it means.

 

[Esmeralda]

It's not a private definition. This is what educators have to do. It's called continuing education and it's on they have to pay for it.

Explain what you think continuing education means. Do you actually mean 'lifelong learning'?

I'm not talking about lifelong learning.

He is an educator, amiright? He knows precisely what it means.

LMAO You are hilarious. Apparently you think you know what it means. Why can't you say? Too funny.

It means what I said it means; there is no other special definition for educators.

con·tin·u·ing ed·u·ca·tion

noun: continuing education

education provided for adults after they have left the formal education system, consisting typically of short or part-time courses.

You don't know what the fuck your are talking about. If you did, you would have explaind the term long ago.

 

[Disir]

Explain what you think continuing education means. Do you actually mean 'lifelong learning'?

I'm not talking about lifelong learning.

He is an educator, amiright? He knows precisely what it means.

LMAO You are hilarious. Apparently you think you know what it means. Why can't you say? Too funny.

It's not inherently important that you grasp this. There is no reason for some guy on the internet to lie about being an educator, amiright? He knows what I am talking about.

 

[Esmeralda]

I'm not talking about lifelong learning.

He is an educator, amiright? He knows precisely what it means.

LMAO You are hilarious. Apparently you think you know what it means. Why can't you say? Too funny.

It's not inherently important that you grasp this. There is no reason for some guy on the internet to lie about being an educator, amiright? He knows what I am talking about.

You think he is lying about being a teacher? I don't. I know that some people leave professions in the 'real world' and go into teaching; I have met such people. I also know enough about schools to know his rendition of what it is like is very much the reality; and, he provides very specific and detailed examples. He's not lying.

Your attempt at being secretive and mysterious is ludicrous.

 

[Disir]

Then he will have no problem answering the questions.

 

[Esmeralda]

^^^You are nuts.

I'm done with you, psycho.

 

[Disir]

I don't care.

 

[longknife]

Yet another interesting thread disrupted by the usual childish blah, blahs of 2 posters.

Shame they can't be deleted.

 

[Disir]

Are you afraid of questions, long knife?

 

[Samson]

I run my own business, and after years and years of hard work I got it to the point where I can get a job AND run my business....so I decided to become a teacher. I've been teaching since February and what I've found STUNS me. Here's a list of the main problems I've encountered (I teach at a public high school for the record):

February is a awkward time to begin the year. I wouldn't take your experience for the past 4 months as indicative of what may happen if you began in August

-Parents lack of interest/involvement with students. I had roughly 150 students and on teacher conference night where parents come in and meet with their teachers I had a total of THREE parents come in. THREE. (I teach a requirement for graduation btw).

Actually, count your lucky stars: The fewer parents you see, the better

-When I call home to parents about students misbehaving or not doing their work most (not all) of the parents don't care, they say it's my job and problem to deal with. So when I address it with the students their response is that their parents don't care, so they don't care.

Most (not all) people care very little about ANYTHING, until you make it personal. Again since you started in February, this is not easy to do. At the begining of the year, document the fuck out of everything. Eventually the discipline ladder will require parents to pick their kids up after school (a real pain in the ass)

-Points for trying. This drives me CRAZY. We're encouraged to give students points for simply trying! I have students asking me why they have C's or D's-and they point out that they do all of their work. I tell them that if they give me "C work", they're going to get a "C". MANY students complain at this and expect an "A" just for doing all of their work. The (obvious) problem is that this doesn't exist in the "real world".

Yeah? Guess what: You're NOT IN THE "REAL WORLD." You'd better get used to this or get back to your Real Job.

-Extra time. Some students who're struggling get granted extra time (under law), where I have to give them as much time as they need to complete work/tests/etc. This may be PC, but once again the problem is that this will NEVER happen for them in the "real world"

More of the "real world" vs academic world. See Above.

-One standard for everybody. Different classes have different personalities and different students learn at different paces/in different ways. But virtually everything has to be taught at a specific pace and in a specific way--the problem is that you can't expect 25 kids to learn at the same pace AND in the same way (let alone 150).

I'm not sure exactly why you're having a problem. Who expects everyone to learn at the same speed? You are the teacher: augment, tutor, do whatever, but its your JOB to teach to a wide variety of learning styles.

-The teacher's union. Luckily I live in a right to work state. I haven't had any real interaction with the actual union so I wont comment on that, BUT there are a few teachers in my department who (literally) carry around their contracts form the teacher's union and if they're asked to do something that's not on there-they'll refuse to do it. Such as putting books away at the end of the school year, or showing up 15 mins to work early for a duty (bus ramp/something similar). And you'd think that they were asked to run a marathon. The complaining blows me away. And then they wonder why teachers will less "experience" (in terms of years) get promoted to APs or Principals.

All employees complain about extra duties; teachers are no exception. Administrators that make it clear what their expectations will be, and what the consequences will be for those unable to meet those expectations have fewer whiny teachers

-Lack of control over situations. As a teacher I was told to NEVER touch a student. Which to me makes 100% sense. I'll give students a high five-but that's IT. The obvious problem comes about during fights, what do we do? I was instructed that even if one student is on top of the other kid and have them pinned against the ground and beating the kid to a bloody pulp that I am NOT to pull the kid off of the other. I have to call down to the main office and wait for our officer (we have a LEO on campus) or an AP/someone else to resolve the situation. Basically we're not allowed to grab a student by the shoulders and pull them off of another student who's getting the crap kicked out of them....because of fear of a lawsuit. Luckily I have complete control over my classroom, but this can (and has) happened to other teachers before.

Yeah, don't touch a student. Sounds like you know the drill: Call for someone trained to handle the situation. I'm not sure why anyone would be eagar to do anything else, but I do suppress the urge to take bets on who will lose the most blood.

-Teachers just clocking in. I think this bothers me the most. I'm usually at my school an extra hour or so (depending on the day) after we can leave. And I'm usually there about a half hour before we have to be. Some teachers book and just bolt. Teaching isn't a career where you should be doing this in my opinion.

Again this goes back to the administration: if they allow it, then teachers will do it

-Students refusing to do work, and who fail without caring. I've had students with a 5.6% and 11.4% in class and BRAG about it. They think it's cool to get bad grades. And yet many out there are ready to subsidize them when they're out of highschool. They'll tell you that somehow "we" (society, teachers, school, etc). have let them down....because they wont admit that they brought it upon themselves. There's no accountability. I've seen quite a few kids drop-out and there's always 2 reasons (I've spoken with more seasoned teachers and they agree): 1) They don't show up to school. 2) They don't care about their grades.

I assume you are teaching kids. Let me enlighten you: Almost none care about you, school, or their grades. They do care deeply about music and food. I suggest using these, or whatever as rewards. I've even used bananas, and have been astonished to find what a kid will do for a banana


I know I've done nothing but complain in this thread, but it's just very disheartening to see all of these obvious problems in my very limited experience and to see that the "solution" is by throwing more money at schools (it's not), or coddling the students. The coddling of kids is going to be a huge downfall for them. It's a crutch.

Um, how old are these kids? I agree that 11-12 graders probably need very little "coddling" but there is a reason most have not been released into the general population: They are kids. By definition, they require coddling. If you cannot get used to this I suggest you teach adults.

 

[JT8691]

Teacher's view on public education system's problems

Can anyone tell me how this is wrong??? Teacher???

Obviously it's grammatically incorrect. I tried to make it concise so it could fit in the title of the thread, and people would know what it meant. I'm new to USMB, so I wasn't sure as to how long/many characters I would have. Nice try in trying to detract from my argument though!

 

[Samson]

^^^If you are referring to the OP, he is one person, one teacher. Why are you asking him such questions? He has no more power than the rest of us to make changes to the school system or do anything about continuing education (which means education after high school).

Obviously, if you ask someone what they are doing about continuing education, you are not asking them what they are doing about the community college; You are asking about THEIR OWN continuing education. I'm not sure why this is any more relevant?

Are you suggesting that many of the complaints listed may be a result of poor teacher preparation, and that additional training may be required for the OP? I don't think so, necessarily. Almost anyone is shocked during the first few months of teaching. Most begining teachers are given mentors so they can cope.

 

[JT8691]

I run my own business, and after years and years of hard work I got it to the point where I can get a job AND run my business....so I decided to become a teacher. I've been teaching since February and what I've found STUNS me. Here's a list of the main problems I've encountered (I teach at a public high school for the record):

February is a awkward time to begin the year. I wouldn't take your experience for the past 4 months as indicative of what may happen if you began in August

-Parents lack of interest/involvement with students. I had roughly 150 students and on teacher conference night where parents come in and meet with their teachers I had a total of THREE parents come in. THREE. (I teach a requirement for graduation btw).

Actually, count your lucky stars: The fewer parents you see, the better

-When I call home to parents about students misbehaving or not doing their work most (not all) of the parents don't care, they say it's my job and problem to deal with. So when I address it with the students their response is that their parents don't care, so they don't care.

Most (not all) people care very little about ANYTHING, until you make it personal. Again since you started in February, this is not easy to do. At the begining of the year, document the fuck out of everything. Eventually the discipline ladder will require parents to pick their kids up after school (a real pain in the ass)

-Points for trying. This drives me CRAZY. We're encouraged to give students points for simply trying! I have students asking me why they have C's or D's-and they point out that they do all of their work. I tell them that if they give me "C work", they're going to get a "C". MANY students complain at this and expect an "A" just for doing all of their work. The (obvious) problem is that this doesn't exist in the "real world".

Yeah? Guess what: You're NOT IN THE "REAL WORLD." You'd better get used to this or get back to your Real Job.

-Extra time. Some students who're struggling get granted extra time (under law), where I have to give them as much time as they need to complete work/tests/etc. This may be PC, but once again the problem is that this will NEVER happen for them in the "real world"

More of the "real world" vs academic world. See Above.

-One standard for everybody. Different classes have different personalities and different students learn at different paces/in different ways. But virtually everything has to be taught at a specific pace and in a specific way--the problem is that you can't expect 25 kids to learn at the same pace AND in the same way (let alone 150).

I'm not sure exactly why you're having a problem. Who expects everyone to learn at the same speed? You are the teacher: augment, tutor, do whatever, but its your JOB to teach to a wide variety of learning styles.

-The teacher's union. Luckily I live in a right to work state. I haven't had any real interaction with the actual union so I wont comment on that, BUT there are a few teachers in my department who (literally) carry around their contracts form the teacher's union and if they're asked to do something that's not on there-they'll refuse to do it. Such as putting books away at the end of the school year, or showing up 15 mins to work early for a duty (bus ramp/something similar). And you'd think that they were asked to run a marathon. The complaining blows me away. And then they wonder why teachers will less "experience" (in terms of years) get promoted to APs or Principals.

All employees complain about extra duties; teachers are no exception. Administrators that make it clear what their expectations will be, and what the consequences will be for those unable to meet those expectations have fewer whiny teachers

-Lack of control over situations. As a teacher I was told to NEVER touch a student. Which to me makes 100% sense. I'll give students a high five-but that's IT. The obvious problem comes about during fights, what do we do? I was instructed that even if one student is on top of the other kid and have them pinned against the ground and beating the kid to a bloody pulp that I am NOT to pull the kid off of the other. I have to call down to the main office and wait for our officer (we have a LEO on campus) or an AP/someone else to resolve the situation. Basically we're not allowed to grab a student by the shoulders and pull them off of another student who's getting the crap kicked out of them....because of fear of a lawsuit. Luckily I have complete control over my classroom, but this can (and has) happened to other teachers before.

Yeah, don't touch a student. Sounds like you know the drill: Call for someone trained to handle the situation. I'm not sure why anyone would be eagar to do anything else, but I do suppress the urge to take bets on who will lose the most blood.

-Teachers just clocking in. I think this bothers me the most. I'm usually at my school an extra hour or so (depending on the day) after we can leave. And I'm usually there about a half hour before we have to be. Some teachers book and just bolt. Teaching isn't a career where you should be doing this in my opinion.

Again this goes back to the administration: if they allow it, then teachers will do it

-Students refusing to do work, and who fail without caring. I've had students with a 5.6% and 11.4% in class and BRAG about it. They think it's cool to get bad grades. And yet many out there are ready to subsidize them when they're out of highschool. They'll tell you that somehow "we" (society, teachers, school, etc). have let them down....because they wont admit that they brought it upon themselves. There's no accountability. I've seen quite a few kids drop-out and there's always 2 reasons (I've spoken with more seasoned teachers and they agree): 1) They don't show up to school. 2) They don't care about their grades.

I assume you are teaching kids. Let me enlighten you: Almost none care about you, school, or their grades. They do care deeply about music and food. I suggest using these, or whatever as rewards. I've even used bananas, and have been astonished to find what a kid will do for a banana


I know I've done nothing but complain in this thread, but it's just very disheartening to see all of these obvious problems in my very limited experience and to see that the "solution" is by throwing more money at schools (it's not), or coddling the students. The coddling of kids is going to be a huge downfall for them. It's a crutch.

Um, how old are these kids? I agree that 11-12 graders probably need very little "coddling" but there is a reason most have not been released into the general population: They are kids. By definition, they require coddling. If you cannot get used to this I suggest you teach adults.

I teach seniors and juniors. (EIII and EIVH to answer people who were asking me the question earlier in the thread). And most of my seniors ARE adults by the end of high school. They can sign legally binding contracts.

I do "coddle" when necessary, but my main point about coddling is you have 17/18 year olds wanting to hand work in late by 8 weeks and expect to get credit for it. While I agree there's an academic and real world (I use quotes for "real world" because I don't like the term, but I have nothing else to use for it)....the problem is that the "coddling" ceases to exist in higher education. Once you're in college/university the coddling stops. I think we can both agree on that.

A teacher's job is to teach the curriculum first and foremost. I also view my job as preparing them for life beyond high school (especially my seniors). Teaching a 18 "kid" that it's ok to hand in work weeks late doesn't really do them any favors in the long run. It teaches them that's it ok to miss deadlines, it's ok not to own up to your responsibilities, people will give you the benefit of the doubt, people will look past your irresponsible decisions. I think everybody can agree that this will NOT happen after high school (and that includes the rest of their academic career).

I do cut some slack when I need to, I'm not entirely strict. I'm ok with "coddling", for lack of a better term, when necessary. My point was that I think we're coddling too much. I think we've gone past the point that makes sense.

 

[JT8691]

^^^If you are referring to the OP, he is one person, one teacher. Why are you asking him such questions? He has no more power than the rest of us to make changes to the school system or do anything about continuing education (which means education after high school).

Obviously, if you ask someone what they are doing about continuing education, you are not asking them what they are doing about the community college; You are asking about THEIR OWN continuing education. I'm not sure why this is any more relevant?

Are you suggesting that many of the complaints listed may be a result of poor teacher preparation, and that additional training may be required for the OP? I don't think so, necessarily. Almost anyone is shocked during the first few months of teaching. Most begining teachers are given mentors so they can cope.

Obviously I'm a new teacher and I made had many challenges, and made quite a few mistakes. I'm not trying to pretend that I'm a perfect teacher, or even a great teacher.

I have my license, I've taken many educational classes (although I will admit that my major is not in education, or even the subject that I teach). My principal/APs have told me numerous times that I'm doing a great job and am exceeding their expectations. All of my evaluations have gone very well, and my student's test scores are above-average (not amazing, but above-average). I will absolutely admit that I was shocked with how things were run. That was the point of my post. I'm obviously not egotistical to think that I'm Paul Revere or anything, I just thought that I'd post my observations on what I think is wrong with the system today. In all fairness there ARE things that the system (at least at my school) are getting right.

Since I came in halfway through the school year I wasn't given a mentor (I will be getting one for this upcoming August). I adjusted by asking my department head, assistant department head and co-workers TONS of questions.

 

[JT8691]

I'm not talking about lifelong learning.

He is an educator, amiright? He knows precisely what it means.

LMAO You are hilarious. Apparently you think you know what it means. Why can't you say? Too funny.

It's not inherently important that you grasp this. There is no reason for some guy on the internet to lie about being an educator, amiright? He knows what I am talking about.

To be honest with you I don't care if you think that I'm a real educator, or if I'm making it all up. Whatever you choose to think is your own business. This isn't an interrogation. If you think I'm full of crap-fine I really don't care.

What makes you question me though? What portion of my post generates even the slightest bit of doubt to you?

 

[Samson]

I teach seniors and juniors. (EIII and EIVH to answer people who were asking me the question earlier in the thread). And most of my seniors ARE adults by the end of high school. They can sign legally binding contracts.

I do "coddle" when necessary, but my main point about coddling is you have 17/18 year olds wanting to hand work in late by 8 weeks and expect to get credit for it. While I agree there's an academic and real world (I use quotes for "real world" because I don't like the term, but I have nothing else to use for it)....the problem is that the "coddling" ceases to exist in higher education. Once you're in college/university the coddling stops. I think we can both agree on that.

A teacher's job is to teach the curriculum first and foremost. I also view my job as preparing them for life beyond high school (especially my seniors). Teaching a 18 "kid" that it's ok to hand in work weeks late doesn't really do them any favors in the long run. It teaches them that's it ok to miss deadlines, it's ok not to own up to your responsibilities, people will give you the benefit of the doubt, people will look past your irresponsible decisions. I think everybody can agree that this will NOT happen after high school (and that includes the rest of their academic career).

I do cut some slack when I need to, I'm not entirely strict. I'm ok with "coddling", for lack of a better term, when necessary. My point was that I think we're coddling too much. I think we've gone past the point that makes sense.

Well, it seems like you have the right idea. I would expect that when you begin next year it will be much easier to establish your expectations for students.

I would advise concentrating on students and your classroom, and being very diligent about discipline. Frankly, if there are issues, then the parents have heard about them for the past 17-18 years, and if they're not resolved, they never will be. Be a hard-ass disciplinarian: DOCUMENT everything, and hope that your major problems will be sent to an alternative campus before Christmas. Try to avoid other teachers, administrators, and parents. A strict speak, see, and hear-no-evil policy is the best. Make adult friends OUTSIDE the school.

 

[JT8691]

I teach seniors and juniors. (EIII and EIVH to answer people who were asking me the question earlier in the thread). And most of my seniors ARE adults by the end of high school. They can sign legally binding contracts.

I do "coddle" when necessary, but my main point about coddling is you have 17/18 year olds wanting to hand work in late by 8 weeks and expect to get credit for it. While I agree there's an academic and real world (I use quotes for "real world" because I don't like the term, but I have nothing else to use for it)....the problem is that the "coddling" ceases to exist in higher education. Once you're in college/university the coddling stops. I think we can both agree on that.

A teacher's job is to teach the curriculum first and foremost. I also view my job as preparing them for life beyond high school (especially my seniors). Teaching a 18 "kid" that it's ok to hand in work weeks late doesn't really do them any favors in the long run. It teaches them that's it ok to miss deadlines, it's ok not to own up to your responsibilities, people will give you the benefit of the doubt, people will look past your irresponsible decisions. I think everybody can agree that this will NOT happen after high school (and that includes the rest of their academic career).

I do cut some slack when I need to, I'm not entirely strict. I'm ok with "coddling", for lack of a better term, when necessary. My point was that I think we're coddling too much. I think we've gone past the point that makes sense.

Well, it seems like you have the right idea. I would expect that when you begin next year it will be much easier to establish your expectations for students.

I would advise concentrating on students and your classroom, and being very diligent about discipline. Frankly, if there are issues, then the parents have heard about them for the past 17-18 years, and if they're not resolved, they never will be. Be a hard-ass disciplinarian: DOCUMENT everything, and hope that your major problems will be sent to an alternative campus before Christmas. Try to avoid other teachers, administrators, and parents. A strict speak, see, and hear-no-evil policy is the best. Make adult friends OUTSIDE the school.

Thanks for taking the time for advice! I sincerely appreciate it!

 

[longknife]

So sad this has become yet another Nyah, Nyah, Nyah thread.

 

[Samson]

I teach seniors and juniors. (EIII and EIVH to answer people who were asking me the question earlier in the thread). And most of my seniors ARE adults by the end of high school. They can sign legally binding contracts.

I do "coddle" when necessary, but my main point about coddling is you have 17/18 year olds wanting to hand work in late by 8 weeks and expect to get credit for it. While I agree there's an academic and real world (I use quotes for "real world" because I don't like the term, but I have nothing else to use for it)....the problem is that the "coddling" ceases to exist in higher education. Once you're in college/university the coddling stops. I think we can both agree on that.

A teacher's job is to teach the curriculum first and foremost. I also view my job as preparing them for life beyond high school (especially my seniors). Teaching a 18 "kid" that it's ok to hand in work weeks late doesn't really do them any favors in the long run. It teaches them that's it ok to miss deadlines, it's ok not to own up to your responsibilities, people will give you the benefit of the doubt, people will look past your irresponsible decisions. I think everybody can agree that this will NOT happen after high school (and that includes the rest of their academic career).

I do cut some slack when I need to, I'm not entirely strict. I'm ok with "coddling", for lack of a better term, when necessary. My point was that I think we're coddling too much. I think we've gone past the point that makes sense.

Well, it seems like you have the right idea. I would expect that when you begin next year it will be much easier to establish your expectations for students.

I would advise concentrating on students and your classroom, and being very diligent about discipline. Frankly, if there are issues, then the parents have heard about them for the past 17-18 years, and if they're not resolved, they never will be. Be a hard-ass disciplinarian: DOCUMENT everything, and hope that your major problems will be sent to an alternative campus before Christmas. Try to avoid other teachers, administrators, and parents. A strict speak, see, and hear-no-evil policy is the best. Make adult friends OUTSIDE the school.

Thanks for taking the time for advice! I sincerely appreciate it!

One other nugget: You are not, and never will be, the students' peer.

This is especially difficult to remember around 17-18 year olds who may seem to be adults. I advise dressing very differently. Teachers that dress casually confuse students. Wear a coat and tie and real fucking leather shoes: Its your uniform, and it says, "I'm the Boss." You may have an ID badge. Wear this around your neck on a very heavy gage chain (the heavier, the better) that you find at Home Depot. Being known as "The Man With The Chain" lends a certain air of freightening mystery to your persona that can command respect in about every situation.