Tell Me Why Unions Are Bad

[AntiParty]

You are misrepresenting the position here. Very few people really think that unions as a whole are bad. That is reserved for those that really don’t bother to think. The position is not that unions are bad but that they have become a bad force in modern times. This is mostly due to the fact that unions have been offered special protections over the years that have reduced their requirement to actually fight for the workers. This is because membership in a union is a MANDATORY function of employment. In virtually all the problem areas, this has been the core problem. When your ‘members’ are legally bound to pay you, why would you offer a quality service?

The reality is that you don’t. That service does not gain you anything so they really don’t bother.

We are starting to fix that travesty though. Right to work states have taken that protection that no other entity receives and made it illegal allowing people to join a union at will rather than forcing them into one as a matter of employment.

Unions should not be destroyed or ended as a practice – they are vital for the workers to maintain leverage in their positions should they need or want it. There is nothing inherently wrong at all with joining together to represent your shared interests. There is something vitally wrong with those unions getting special protections though that forces one to participate in a practice that they do not want to be a part of.

It was one thing for workers to unite and strike or demand better wages, conditions and reasonable hours. Those things have been accomplished. Now it's a matter of unions demanding dues from people and they use those to fund campaigns. It doesn't matter what the members want.

The unions are all about politics these days. They make big money and spend big money and it's not all about the workers. The unions helped elect Obama. They helped push Obamacare and now want exempt. That attitude that it's okay for the rest of us but not good enough for unions is unacceptable.

The union bosses are nothing more than mobsters these days and they are no longer needed. They've become self-serving.

"The unions helped elect Obama. They helped push Obamacare and now want exempt."

Care to explain or is that what you heard on Fox News? Surely you have the facts and have the ability to explain your position, otherwise, what kind of American are you?

 

[AntiParty]

You are misrepresenting the position here. Very few people really think that unions as a whole are bad. That is reserved for those that really don’t bother to think. The position is not that unions are bad but that they have become a bad force in modern times. This is mostly due to the fact that unions have been offered special protections over the years that have reduced their requirement to actually fight for the workers. This is because membership in a union is a MANDATORY function of employment. In virtually all the problem areas, this has been the core problem. When your ‘members’ are legally bound to pay you, why would you offer a quality service?

The reality is that you don’t. That service does not gain you anything so they really don’t bother.

We are starting to fix that travesty though. Right to work states have taken that protection that no other entity receives and made it illegal allowing people to join a union at will rather than forcing them into one as a matter of employment.

Unions should not be destroyed or ended as a practice – they are vital for the workers to maintain leverage in their positions should they need or want it. There is nothing inherently wrong at all with joining together to represent your shared interests. There is something vitally wrong with those unions getting special protections though that forces one to participate in a practice that they do not want to be a part of.

It was one thing for workers to unite and strike or demand better wages, conditions and reasonable hours. Those things have been accomplished. Now it's a matter of unions demanding dues from people and they use those to fund campaigns. It doesn't matter what the members want.

The unions are all about politics these days. They make big money and spend big money and it's not all about the workers. The unions helped elect Obama. They helped push Obamacare and now want exempt. That attitude that it's okay for the rest of us but not good enough for unions is unacceptable.

The union bosses are nothing more than mobsters these days and they are no longer needed. They've become self-serving.

Those against unions, like the Koch brothers, backed Romney. The mystery is why middle class folks support the 1%, to their own detriment.

The rich have more unions today than the poor.

 

[AntiParty]

If Unions are bad, I would think that more people would have a valid argument against them. The only negative arguments brought up were the ones I brought up in the OP solidifying that the least intelligent people in forums read the title and nothing more.

It use to be "We The People".

Or maybe you think people demanding a fair days pay for a fair days work is Socialism?

 

[frigidweirdo]

If Unions are bad, I would think that more people would have a valid argument against them. The only negative arguments brought up were the ones I brought up in the OP solidifying that the least intelligent people in forums read the title and nothing more.

It use to be "We The People".

Or maybe you think people demanding a fair days pay for a fair days work is Socialism?

Unions are like everything else, they can be good and they can be bad.

I've been in a union once, they said "join the union and get more money, don't get less", this was in Six Flags summer job in Jersey.

However I also know a few British politicians' children, one of whom was a minister for a regional assembly that dealt with healthcare, and this region's healthcare was shockingly bad, especially after this politician left the job, and guess what? She was union all the way.

This politician did well in politics because she could appeal to the working class voters in the area, and there were a lot, but she couldn't actually seem to do a govt job properly.


Unions will often look out of unions. However a good union will be a force for good, a corrupt union will be a force for bad.

Isn't everything like this? Communism could be good if it didn't involve human beings making it bad. Democracy could be good if it wasn't controlled by human beings making it bad. Same with dictators, if the dictator were a force for good it would be a good govt.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Tell me why Unions are bad. Don't get me wrong, I study the abuse of Unions just like I study the abuse of everything that gets out of control.

Regulation isn't a bad word for either party. It's a necessary and Constitutional word.

So.......since Unions gave us;

1.Weekends without work
2.All breaks at work, including your lunch breaks
3.Paid vacation
4.Family & Medical Leave Act (FMLA)
5.Sick leave
6.Social Security
7.Minimum wage
8.Civil Rights Act/Title VII - prohibits employer discrimination
9.8-hour work day
10.Overtime pay
11.Child labor laws
12.Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)
13.40-hour work week
14.Workers’ compensation (workers’ comp)
15.Unemployment insurance
16.Pensions
17.Workplace safety standards and regulations
18.Employer health care insurance
19.Collective bargaining rights for employees
20.Wrongful termination laws
21.Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA)
22.Whistleblower protection laws
23.Employee Polygraph Protection Act (EPPA) - prohibits employers from using a lie detector test on an employee
24.Veteran's Employment and Training Services (VETS)
25.Compensation increases and evaluations (i.e. raises)
26.Sexual harassment laws
27.Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)
28.Holiday pay
29.Employer dental, life, and vision insurance
30.Privacy rights
31.Pregnancy and parental leave
32.Military leave
33.The right to strike
34.Public education for children
35.Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 - requires employers pay men and women equally for the same amount of work
36.Laws ending sweatshops in the United States

Tell me why they are bad.

Let me start. NO Union should force anyone to join a Union pending employment. That's the exact polar opposite of Citizens United forcing employee's to use their money to pay for something they don't believe in.

The people aren't stupid. Let the people chose. The people run this Country. NOT the Government or the Media that pays Millions to politicians.

And all of that is now law, not union protected but law for everyone.

The problem isn't what unions have done in the past they did some good things that have helped everyone but today it's what are they doing now. And what they are doing now is focusing not on business but the government where they can work back room deals with politicians that keep their coffers full with tax payers money not some corporate giant treating people like shit.

Private sector unions have always been fine, join one, don't join one I don't really give a crap. The problem is public sector unions when they are screwing the very tax payer they used to represent in order to get more government favors for themselves and the complete lack of the people actually paying that price to have any say in the process.

So I'm guessing you like Scott Walker, he is addressing this problem quite successfully.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

If Unions are bad, I would think that more people would have a valid argument against them. The only negative arguments brought up were the ones I brought up in the OP solidifying that the least intelligent people in forums read the title and nothing more.

It use to be "We The People".

Or maybe you think people demanding a fair days pay for a fair days work is Socialism?

The first page and a half of reply's were people sucking pro-union dick. Yet you never did call them out like you promised to do to any asshole just spewing the party line.

Pretty selective in your outrage here aren't you?

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Note; No argument is a bad argument. But if you just say, "You are stupid" you will be generalized as the bad and sadly typical argument.

Wait what?

They aren't bad, the far right hates them because they stand up for the middle class and working man.

Duh... because Rush Limbaugh and the Tea Party

It would be a good idea to give people an idea of what America was like before unions.

The Autobiography of Mother Jones.

The United States of America is a Union. We fought a "civil" war to keep it that way.

The grand old fucktea would like to take all that away so corporations can treat their workers like *******.

Even HL Mencken thought unions were a good idea for workers...he like many people today just had/has issues with who takes over unions and what they do with the power.

Only a fool would suggest unions as a concept are a bad idea

You have nothing to say to these people?

 

[AntiParty]

If Unions are bad, I would think that more people would have a valid argument against them. The only negative arguments brought up were the ones I brought up in the OP solidifying that the least intelligent people in forums read the title and nothing more.

It use to be "We The People".

Or maybe you think people demanding a fair days pay for a fair days work is Socialism?

Unions are like everything else, they can be good and they can be bad.

I've been in a union once, they said "join the union and get more money, don't get less", this was in Six Flags summer job in Jersey.

However I also know a few British politicians' children, one of whom was a minister for a regional assembly that dealt with healthcare, and this region's healthcare was shockingly bad, especially after this politician left the job, and guess what? She was union all the way.

This politician did well in politics because she could appeal to the working class voters in the area, and there were a lot, but she couldn't actually seem to do a govt job properly.


Unions will often look out of unions. However a good union will be a force for good, a corrupt union will be a force for bad.

Isn't everything like this? Communism could be good if it didn't involve human beings making it bad. Democracy could be good if it wasn't controlled by human beings making it bad. Same with dictators, if the dictator were a force for good it would be a good govt.

Sure. I said it before. The 1% Unionize and it's a fact. But this movement that the workers can't think for themselves is not a fact.

 

[AntiParty]

Tell me why Unions are bad. Don't get me wrong, I study the abuse of Unions just like I study the abuse of everything that gets out of control.

Regulation isn't a bad word for either party. It's a necessary and Constitutional word.

So.......since Unions gave us;

1.Weekends without work
2.All breaks at work, including your lunch breaks
3.Paid vacation
4.Family & Medical Leave Act (FMLA)
5.Sick leave
6.Social Security
7.Minimum wage
8.Civil Rights Act/Title VII - prohibits employer discrimination
9.8-hour work day
10.Overtime pay
11.Child labor laws
12.Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)
13.40-hour work week
14.Workers’ compensation (workers’ comp)
15.Unemployment insurance
16.Pensions
17.Workplace safety standards and regulations
18.Employer health care insurance
19.Collective bargaining rights for employees
20.Wrongful termination laws
21.Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA)
22.Whistleblower protection laws
23.Employee Polygraph Protection Act (EPPA) - prohibits employers from using a lie detector test on an employee
24.Veteran's Employment and Training Services (VETS)
25.Compensation increases and evaluations (i.e. raises)
26.Sexual harassment laws
27.Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)
28.Holiday pay
29.Employer dental, life, and vision insurance
30.Privacy rights
31.Pregnancy and parental leave
32.Military leave
33.The right to strike
34.Public education for children
35.Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 - requires employers pay men and women equally for the same amount of work
36.Laws ending sweatshops in the United States

Tell me why they are bad.

Let me start. NO Union should force anyone to join a Union pending employment. That's the exact polar opposite of Citizens United forcing employee's to use their money to pay for something they don't believe in.

The people aren't stupid. Let the people chose. The people run this Country. NOT the Government or the Media that pays Millions to politicians.

And all of that is now law, not union protected but law for everyone.

The problem isn't what unions have done in the past they did some good things that have helped everyone but today it's what are they doing now. And what they are doing now is focusing not on business but the government where they can work back room deals with politicians that keep their coffers full with tax payers money not some corporate giant treating people like shit.

Private sector unions have always been fine, join one, don't join one I don't really give a crap. The problem is public sector unions when they are screwing the very tax payer they used to represent in order to get more government favors for themselves and the complete lack of the people actually paying that price to have any say in the process.

So I'm guessing you like Scott Walker, he is addressing this problem quite successfully.

Naw............guessing you follow Fox News.

 

[AntiParty]

If Unions are bad, I would think that more people would have a valid argument against them. The only negative arguments brought up were the ones I brought up in the OP solidifying that the least intelligent people in forums read the title and nothing more.

It use to be "We The People".

Or maybe you think people demanding a fair days pay for a fair days work is Socialism?

The first page and a half of reply's were people sucking pro-union dick. Yet you never did call them out like you promised to do to any asshole just spewing the party line.

Pretty selective in your outrage here aren't you?

Here we see a SHINING example of what party lines are. This small brain thinks that Unions are Only a Left wing thing. When in history it has been a human movement.

I'm so sad for this kid. Propaganda sheep aren't wrong because they believe propaganda. They are wrong because they haven't received true information.

 

[AntiParty]

Note; No argument is a bad argument. But if you just say, "You are stupid" you will be generalized as the bad and sadly typical argument.

Wait what?

They aren't bad, the far right hates them because they stand up for the middle class and working man.

The grand old fucktea would like to take all that away so corporations can treat their workers like *******.

Even HL Mencken thought unions were a good idea for workers...he like many people today just had/has issues with who takes over unions and what they do with the power.

Only a fool would suggest unions as a concept are a bad idea

You have nothing to say to these people?

AZMike, I think that you think you are advanced in political thinking. Sadly, I see you as a 2-5 year newbie in politics. I really doubt you have been in politics long. Sorry, as I said, Im me and I think for me.

 

[AntiParty]

Ignore the thread de-rail machine.

The topic is Unions.

Explain what Unions have done to hurt America.

So far. Unions have obvious flaws, but are winning. Besides what was in the OP there has been no valid argument for why Unions shouldn't be in place.

(basically because Unions are workers that demand their worth, HOW DARE THEY!)

 

[zeke]

Ultra wealthy people have a union. They call it our Congress. Or the International Brotherhood of Plutocrats.
But unionized they are. How the hell else did they get bailed out during the economic collapse? Any of you on here get any of those TARP funds? Big bonuses for shoddy work?

The most powerful, cash rich organization in the work force is the union of the ultra wealthy. They have it going on for the rich. Any of you notice the income gains for the ultra rich? Percentage of the nations wealth held by the ultra rich? Bail outs of the ultra rich?

That is one powerful union they belong to. The union of the ultra wealthy.

 

[FJO]

Nobody disputes that there was a time when unions were needed.
So they came into existence and did the work which slowly and/or suddenly resulted in all the benefits listed in the first post in this thread.

But then the inevitable happened.

Unions got to love themselves too much.

They overestimated their power and importance. They started to demand things for their members that were unattainable in a real and normal world, and when they got them they were shocked to see the jobs of their members migrate to China or Bangladesh.

They started to defend teachers who were/are child abusers and pedophiles.

They stick up for - with unfortunate legal support - lazy and non-productive slugs.

They force hard working and diligent people to carry stupid signs and go on strikes for things/benefits/wages their contributions to the company or society don't justify.

They deny people the right to work.

They beat up, terrorize and intimidate decent folks who only want to support their families.

They abuse your dues by giving large potions of them to parties and candidates you don't support.

They think you are an idiot who needs a wise person like them to speak for you.

Unions are an atavism, a sociological dinosaur.

 

[Avorysuds]

What an ignorant or trolling thread.

Unions played a hand in getting some important things done, but the question is how many things needed to get done before their purpose was exhausted? Today Unions are a net deficit on production as their goal has changed from representing the people to representing the weakest link in the chain.

The biggest problem is the direct correlation between Unions and politicians. Unions have become nothing more than way to fun political groups... This is of course speaking about the "bad" unions as not all unions fit everything I said here.

Make it so people don't have to join a union, no law requiring you join and pay a union just because you get a job.

 

[editec]

BAD unions are BAD.


Good unions are good.

Der!

Pretending that facts (history) don't matter when it comes to evaluating unions is a typical CON game.

Painting with a broad brush is typical of partisan thinking.

Partisan thinking is my nice way of saying "willing to LIE like a rug for the TEAM"

That is why in every case on this board we find that there are always at least two different sets of facts.

The dishonesty that most of you partisans display here is blatant.

 

[PredFan]

Here's your list edited to only show actual good things done by unions:

1.Weekends without work
2.All breaks at work, including your lunch breaks
3.Paid vacation
4.Family & Medical Leave Act (FMLA)
5.Sick leave
8.Civil Rights Act/Title VII - prohibits employer discrimination
9.8-hour work day
10.Overtime pay
11.Child labor laws
12.Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)
13.40-hour work week
14.Workers’ compensation (workers’ comp)
17.Workplace safety standards and regulations
19.Collective bargaining rights for employees
20.Wrongful termination laws
21.Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA)
22.Whistleblower protection laws
24.Veteran's Employment and Training Services (VETS)
25.Compensation increases and evaluations (i.e. raises)
26.Sexual harassment laws
27.Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)
28.Holiday pay
30.Privacy rights
31.Pregnancy and parental leave
32.Military leave
34.Public education for children
35.Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 - requires employers pay men and women equally for the same amount of work
36.Laws ending sweatshops in the United States

Most of these things were accomplished many years ago. They are now law.

I can't speak for all conservatives but I think that private sector unions have outlived their usefulness. They have destroyed some major manufacturing industries in the US like the auto industry, the steel industry, and the textile industry.

Public sector unions should be illegal. The left wings hero FDR, also bieved that unions had no place in the public sector.

And btw, Citizens United doesnt force employees to use their money for anything.

 

[Wildman]

Tell me why Unions are bad. Don't get me wrong, I study the abuse of Unions just like I study the abuse of everything that gets out of control.

Regulation isn't a bad word for either party. It's a necessary and Constitutional word.

So.......since Unions gave us;

1.Weekends without work
2.All breaks at work, including your lunch breaks
3.Paid vacation
4.Family & Medical Leave Act (FMLA)
5.Sick leave
6.Social Security
7.Minimum wage
8.Civil Rights Act/Title VII - prohibits employer discrimination
9.8-hour work day
10.Overtime pay
11.Child labor laws
12.Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)
13.40-hour work week
14.Workers’ compensation (workers’ comp)
15.Unemployment insurance
16.Pensions
17.Workplace safety standards and regulations
18.Employer health care insurance
19.Collective bargaining rights for employees
20.Wrongful termination laws
21.Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA)
22.Whistleblower protection laws
23.Employee Polygraph Protection Act (EPPA) - prohibits employers from using a lie detector test on an employee
24.Veteran's Employment and Training Services (VETS)
25.Compensation increases and evaluations (i.e. raises)
26.Sexual harassment laws
27.Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)
28.Holiday pay
29.Employer dental, life, and vision insurance
30.Privacy rights
31.Pregnancy and parental leave
32.Military leave
33.The right to strike
34.Public education for children
35.Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 - requires employers pay men and women equally for the same amount of work
36.Laws ending sweatshops in the United States

Tell me why they are bad.

Let me start. NO Union should force anyone to join a Union pending employment. That's the exact polar opposite of Citizens United forcing employee's to use their money to pay for something they don't believe in.

The people aren't stupid. Let the people chose. The people run this Country. NOT the Government or the Media that pays Millions to politicians.

they are BAD now simply because they have out lived their usefulness, and have become politically criminal.

 

[dannyboys]

Union membership is collapsing. That is a fact. Unions served a valuable purpose. With the rise of union power came a pesky little side effect: It's called 'The Culture of Entitlement'. Simply put this meant that a school drop-out with a grade nine education could get a job in a union run factory and be paid the same as high school teacher. The unions are directly responsible for the mass exodus of manufacturing jobs over seas. The wealthy union thugs, sorry, bosses, were refusing to negotiate sane agreements and calling for strikes as the factory owners were basically telling the union thugs to shove it.
Today employees who have decent jobs prefer to keep them rather than stand outside in the fucking cold around a burning barrel watching their union delegate drive by in this year's Escalade taking the kids to their private schools then picking up the fully paid for 'family included' annual two weeks 'Christmas Conference' on Maui first class plane tickets.
The union bosses committed murder on their Golden Goose'. They have no one but themselves to blame.

 

[WinterBorn]

If Unions are bad, I would think that more people would have a valid argument against them. The only negative arguments brought up were the ones I brought up in the OP solidifying that the least intelligent people in forums read the title and nothing more.

It use to be "We The People".

Or maybe you think people demanding a fair days pay for a fair days work is Socialism?

Unions themselves are not bad. There was a time where they changed the way we work, and we owe them our gratitude.

But the unions of today are not based on helping workers. They are based on a power struggle. They serve the worker no more than the 1%ers. Unions do not want workers and mgmt. to get along.