Ten Gun Myths and Memes-- Shot Down

[Saigon]

2nd Amendment -

Of course you can compare the US with Somalia, North Korea, Uzbekistan or Mexico if you want to make yourself feel better.

It also establishes very, very clearly that you don't have a case. If you did - you would compare like-on-like, not like-on-failed state.

 

[OKTexas]

2nd Amendment -

Of course you can compare the US with Somalia, North Korea, Uzbekistan or Mexico if you want to make yourself feel better.

It also establishes very, very clearly that you don't have a case. If you did - you would compare like-on-like, not like-on-failed state.

Do you have another country in mind with similar land mass, culture and population to the US, so this like-on-like comparison can be made?

 

[Saigon]

OKTexas -

It makes sense to compare the US with other large, multi-cultural western democracies, no?

So, look at the UK, France, Germany, Canada and perhaps Australia and Holland. All six countries have large amounts of immigrants, all are urbanised, and all share a kind of western lifestyle, so to speak.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

OKTexas -

It makes sense to compare the US with other large, multi-cultural western democracies, no?

So, look at the UK, France, Germany, Canada and perhaps Australia and Holland. All six countries have large amounts of immigrants, all are urbanised, and all share a kind of western lifestyle, so to speak.

Ok, let's start with the UK and Australia.

They have far worse VIOLENT CRIME RATES than the United States.

Violent crime worse in Britain than in US | Mail Online

Here's a link from the chief news media in all of the UK

UK is violent crime capital of Europe - Telegraph

A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.

It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 – a 67 per cent increase in the past decade – at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.

That quote is from THE TELEGRAPH, King of UK news.

 

[Saigon]

2nd Amendment -

Ok, let's start with the UK and Australia.

They have far worse VIOLENT CRIME RATES than the United States.

Seriously?

Australia had 30 gun-related homicides. England had 41. The US had 4,971.

Honestly.....I just don't know what to say about the level of intellectual merit on display here....

 

[Saigon]

That quote is from THE TELEGRAPH, King of UK news.

Yes, so is this -

How the murder rate has fallen
Last year saw the lowest murder rate since 1983 and a fall in overall crime, according to figures released today by the Office of National Statistics.

Graphic: how the murder rate has fallen - Telegraph

 

[The2ndAmendment]

2nd Amendment -

Ok, let's start with the UK and Australia.

They have far worse VIOLENT CRIME RATES than the United States.

Seriously?

Australia had 30 gun-related homicides. England had 41. The US had 4,971.

Honestly.....I just don't know what to say about the level of intellectual merit on display here....

Wait, are you denying the facts that the UK themselves have admitted to? Did you not click those links?

Saigon, you're about to find a thread about yourself in the Flame Zone. However, I always give my opponents an opportunity to recant first.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

That quote is from THE TELEGRAPH, King of UK news.

Yes, so is this -

How the murder rate has fallen
Last year saw the lowest murder rate since 1983 and a fall in overall crime, according to figures released today by the Office of National Statistics.

Graphic: how the murder rate has fallen - Telegraph

Because having boiling water poured in your ears, 4 foot rods stuck up your ass (requiring permanent daily treatment for the rest of your life), have your penis cut off ... being brutally raped, etc, are nothing to worry about? Having your car jacked and your children thrown out the door after the car starts moving. Being mugged period.

Apparently Gun Murder is the only violent crime you should fear. You heard it here first folks! All other types of violent crime are children's play! Even knife murders!

 

[Saigon]

2nd Amendment -

I suggest reading the material linked here and actually absorbing the facts.

The fact that the US has a relatively high rate of assaults is not disputed. The UK is quite a violence society - however - people in the UK are not being killed.

Those stats again:

Australia had 30 gun-related homicides. England had 41. The US had 4,971.

Last year the UK had the lowest murder rate since 1983 - thanks to changes in the gun laws.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

OKTexas -

It makes sense to compare the US with other large, multi-cultural western democracies, no?

So, look at the UK, France, Germany, Canada and perhaps Australia and Holland. All six countries have large amounts of immigrants, all are urbanised, and all share a kind of western lifestyle, so to speak.

What other large, multicultural, western democracies? The US has about half the population of the entire European Union, which might make it a comparable population if we ignore the fact that the member nations tend to be the exact opposite of multicultural. Canada is larger in land mass, but has a much smaller population that tends to concentrate itself culturally, which is why Quebec refuses to admit that the rest of the country speaks English.

As for the immigrants, they are generally clustered together, and rarely allowed the opportunity to assimilate into mainstream culture unless they subsume themselves to it, or did you forget that France outlawed the Burqa, and that most of those countries you are trying to compare to the US have a higher incidence of domestic terrorism from those immigrant communities than the US?

In other words, all the similarities exist only if we ignore the fact that the difference are much more prominent. Only a superficial examination of the cultures would find similarities.

I do see why you think Pogo has debated well though, he is slightly smarter than you, so you are blinded by your ignorance.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

2nd Amendment -

Ok, let's start with the UK and Australia.

They have far worse VIOLENT CRIME RATES than the United States.

Seriously?

Australia had 30 gun-related homicides. England had 41. The US had 4,971.

Honestly.....I just don't know what to say about the level of intellectual merit on display here....

Why don't you compare the ratio of legal guns to gun crimes in all three countries? Would that tax your analytical ability to the breaking point?

 

[Saigon]

QW -

So your point is that the US can not be compared with ANY other country.

How....conveniant.

btw. I have now idea whatsoever what you mean by immigrants into Europe not being "allowed" to "assimilate" into "mainstream" culture. What the hell are you taking about?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

2nd Amendment -

I suggest reading the material linked here and actually absorbing the facts.

The fact that the US has a relatively high rate of assaults is not disputed. The UK is quite a violence society - however - people in the UK are not being killed.

Those stats again:

Australia had 30 gun-related homicides. England had 41. The US had 4,971.

Last year the UK had the lowest murder rate since 1983 - thanks to changes in the gun laws.

They did not change their gun laws last year, but thanks for showing how desperate you are to take away everyone's guns.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

QW -

So your point is that the US can not be compared with ANY other country.

How....conveniant.

btw. I have now idea whatsoever what you mean by immigrants into Europe not being "allowed" to "assimilate" into "mainstream" culture. What the hell are you taking about?

The funny part is, you really can't COMPARE the US to ANOTHER COUNTRY. So we are we even doing that?

You need to get LOCAL when it comes to the United States. We have this thing called FEDERALISM. The LAWS of each of the 50 States are DIFFERENT. Also, the LAWS of every CITY/TOWN are also different. We are NOT a UNITARY government. In a UNITARY government, the laws only vary microscopically.

So, keeping that in mind. How are those gun control laws working in Chicago, Rochester and Detroit?

 

[ABikerSailor]

That quote is from THE TELEGRAPH, King of UK news.

Yes, so is this -

How the murder rate has fallen
Last year saw the lowest murder rate since 1983 and a fall in overall crime, according to figures released today by the Office of National Statistics.

Graphic: how the murder rate has fallen - Telegraph

Because having boiling water poured in your ears, 4 foot rods stuck up your ass (requiring permanent daily treatment for the rest of your life), have your penis cut off ... being brutally raped, etc, are nothing to worry about? Having your car jacked and your children thrown out the door after the car starts moving. Being mugged period.

Apparently Gun Murder is the only violent crime you should fear. You heard it here first folks! All other types of violent crime are children's play! Even knife murders!

A couple of questions...................

When was the last time that someone had boiling water poured in their ears?

When was the last time someone had a 4 ft rod stuck up their ass?

When (other than the Lorena Bobbit story) did a man have their penis cut off?

Last brutal rape I heard of didn't happen here in the US, it was in India.

And, when was the last carjacking that had small children thrown out of the vehicle?

Can you provide a link for any of this bullshit? I don't think you can.

But, just like your lemming leader LaPierre, you use the scariest stuff that will probably never happen to scare people into buying guns.

Try again loser.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

QW -

So your point is that the US can not be compared with ANY other country.

How....conveniant.

btw. I have now idea whatsoever what you mean by immigrants into Europe not being "allowed" to "assimilate" into "mainstream" culture. What the hell are you taking about?

Did I say that? I am just pointing out that the way you are trying to do it is superficial. I would expect better of a fifth grader doing a report for school.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Can you provide a link for any of this bullshit? I don't think you can.

Wait, are you denying that criminal elements carry out these heinous acts upon each other?

Are you denying that car jackings happen? Are you denying that mugging happens? Are you denying that rape happens? Are denying that this world is full of very bad things? Sheltered are we?

But hey, in your world, the only violent crime that exists are gun murders!

However, if you want to enter the REAL HISTORICAL WORLD, READ THIS THREAD:

http://www.saveamericafoundation.co...-guns-and-freedom-by-former-sealmatt-bracken/

 

[The2ndAmendment]

QW -

So your point is that the US can not be compared with ANY other country.

How....conveniant.

btw. I have now idea whatsoever what you mean by immigrants into Europe not being "allowed" to "assimilate" into "mainstream" culture. What the hell are you taking about?

Did I say that? I am just pointing out that the way you are trying to do it is superficial.

You should say it, because it's true:

The funny part is, you really can't COMPARE the US to ANOTHER COUNTRY. So we are we even doing that?

You need to get LOCAL when it comes to the United States. We have this thing called FEDERALISM. The LAWS of each of the 50 States are DIFFERENT. Also, the LAWS of every CITY/TOWN are also different. We are NOT a UNITARY government. In a UNITARY government, the laws only vary microscopically.

So, keeping that in mind. How are those gun control laws working in Chicago, Rochester and Detroit?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Can you provide a link for any of this bullshit? I don't think you can.

Wait, are you denying that criminal elements carry out these heinous acts upon each other?

Are you denying that car jackings happen? Are you denying that mugging happens? Are you denying that rape happens? Are denying that this world is full of very bad things? Sheltered are we?

But hey, in your world, the only violent crime that exists are gun murders!

No, I'm not denying that car jackings, muggings or rapes happen. I was wondering if you can back up these extreme acts that you'd referred to in your previous post..................

Because having boiling water poured in your ears, 4 foot rods stuck up your ass (requiring permanent daily treatment for the rest of your life), have your penis cut off ... being brutally raped, etc, are nothing to worry about? Having your car jacked and your children thrown out the door after the car starts moving. Being mugged period.

I wanted to know when any of those acts quoted in your previous post had ever happened in the US.

I gave you examples where I said you were bullshitting...............

When has anyone in this country ever had boiling water poured in their ears?

When has someone in this country had a 4 ft. rod stuck up their ass?

When has anyone (other than Bobbitt) had their penis cut off? The only reason it made national news when Lorena did it was because it was the first time it had happened.

When has a car been jacked and the children thrown out of the car after it's been put in motion?

Provide links for the questions asked, or be known as a fear mongering asshole lemming like LaPierre.

 

[OKTexas]

OKTexas -

It makes sense to compare the US with other large, multi-cultural western democracies, no?

So, look at the UK, France, Germany, Canada and perhaps Australia and Holland. All six countries have large amounts of immigrants, all are urbanised, and all share a kind of western lifestyle, so to speak.

A kind of western lifestyle you say, the European cultures, histories, share very little with the US and the US is only urbanized in select areas around major cities. Over all the US population is much more dispersed than any of the countries you mentioned with the possible exceptions of Canada and Australia and their cultures lean more democratic socialist. So my point is the US as imperfect as it is, it's pretty much incomparable with any other country. Of course you can cherry pick data and try to make comparisons based simply on incidents per 100,000 population or what ever, but they will never be a true like-on-like comparison. And before you say it, I know there are "experts" that claim they can interpret data to make scientific comparisons, but even you have to admit when they start the interpretations, even they are just giving a giant SWAG. AKA Scientific Wild Assed Guess.