Texas Abortion bill

[boilermaker55]

This sure pisses off the "guys".

 

[AmyNation]

Personally, I'd be ok with a blanket ban sometime after the 21st week, so long as the health of the mother was protected. I'm more libertarian than that, but I realize society needs an ability to police was is acceptable. Still, it is simply disengenous to say "we're protecting women," when the intent of a bill is simply not not have any abortions.

I agree.


I think if they had broken up the bill and tried to pass the 20 week ban by itself it would not have been the drama that it was. They could have passed that and it might have stood up to challenge.

However the silly unnecessary restrictions they tacked on that would have shut down more than 90% of abortion clinics was never going to happen. Of course women and dems would loudly oppose that and like other states that have tired, it would have been easily overturned.

 

[koshergrl]

Yes, it would have shut down the disgusting and dangerous charnel houses, and required that those people who are performing dangerous and invasive procedures on women and girls be required to have the authority to admit those women and girls to the hospital, if need be.

Unthinkable! How dare anyone suggest shutting down dangerous, infectious, unsanitary and illegal abortion operations!!! The left fought hard to make those legal!

 

[koshergrl]

So thank you, progressive mob. Against the will of the people, you have insured that abortions, performed by unlicensed, unprofessional butchers, may continue in disgusting clinics that would never in a million years be able to pass a health inspection.

Well done.

 

[francoHFW]

Thank god next year ALL people will get free birth control under O-care, and maybe they'll only need 5 places. Oh wait, the dumbazz Pubs there aren't allowing Medicaid expansion. People won't like that LOL

 

[bendog]

Personally, I'd be ok with a blanket ban sometime after the 21st week, so long as the health of the mother was protected. I'm more libertarian than that, but I realize society needs an ability to police was is acceptable. Still, it is simply disengenous to say "we're protecting women," when the intent of a bill is simply not not have any abortions.

I agree.


I think if they had broken up the bill and tried to pass the 20 week ban by itself it would not have been the drama that it was. They could have passed that and it might have stood up to challenge.

However the silly unnecessary restrictions they tacked on that would have shut down more than 90% of abortion clinics was never going to happen. Of course women and dems would loudly oppose that and like other states that have tired, it would have been easily overturned.

I dunno. Here in Miss, the legislature passed a similar bill that would have shut down the last remaining abortion clinic. It's been enjoined, but the legal status is not certain. Since or genius tea party governer actually said the intent was to end abortions in the state, I hope the 5th Circuit will uphold the injunction.

Koshergirl, if the real intent is to protect the safety of women getting abortions, the state can pass laws requiring certification and inspection of clinics. Doctors do the procedurs. State medical associations have professional standards. Of course malpractice occurs in some instances regardless of the proedure being provided. I suppose you could make it nearly impossible to get knee transplants to get a higher rate of success, but that wouldn't really help in terms of accessing healthcare. But, I understand you seem to be opposed to any abortion.

 

[AmyNation]

Mississippi, North Dakota and Alabama are neck deep in lawsuits (and injunctions )challenging the state because of the admitting privileges nonsense. From everything I've read, the clinics have a very good case and I don't doubt the laws will eventually be ruled unconstitutional.

 

[koshergrl]

Women don't have a right to abortions performed by real doctors.

They only deserve butchers who aren't allow to perform their particularly vile form of "medicine" in any respectable establishment.

 

[AmyNation]

Was there something in the Texas Bill about raising the medical qualifications of abotion doctors?

 

[koshergrl]

About requiring they have admitting rights to local hospitals.

Which means they have to be qualified to practice medicine in area hospitals.

Most abortionists today have crap credentials and scary backgrounds, and respectable hospitals don't even want them crossing the threshhold.

 

[Avatar4321]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...hall-because-of-maryland-democrats-smear.html Now the TPM hypocrites have abandoned this thread because it demonstrates their hypocrisy.

Well, it would be hypocrisy, if the TEA Party folks had actually been in the meeting. But they weren't -- Democrats lied to law enforcement and had their political enemies' rights suppressed.

But of course, you're a flat-out liar, so you think nothing of making this false equivalence.

That is merely your unfounded and lying opinion.

And it certainly applies to the disrupted town meetings in 2009 and 2010.

They were banned by the government from attending the meeting. That's neither unfounded, lying, nor an opinion. That's just plain fact.

 

[AmyNation]

Having admitting privledges is not based on medical qualifications. If it was I wouldn't object to the requirement.

Hospitials are not required to give AP to all qualified doctors. Each hospital has its own policy. Religious hospitals refuse doctors who don't align with their core values, some hospitals require the doctor be a graduate of their medical program, a member of a specific local doctors organization, or only grant them to doctors who are on the faculty. Many hospitals refuse abortion doctors because they fear protestors and simply don't want their hospital to be remotely linked to controversial issues.

So a doctor who performs abortions can be highly qualified and not be granted AP to any of the hospitals within the specified radius of his clinic. Which is exactly what is happening.

 

[koshergrl]

Yes, it is based on medical qualifications, as applied by individual hospitals.

Why are you so committed to having doctors that community hospitals won't accept, provide this risky service to vulnerable women, in substandard conditions?

 

[koshergrl]

Do you have such a low opinion of abortion clinicians (many aren't even MDs) that you don't think they have the ability to be accepted by local clinics?

Are you so adverse to raising the standard a little, or do you just think these patients are undeserving of the same standard of care that is provided to your average dental patient?

 

[AmyNation]

I'm sorry, perhaps I should have said, its not based solely on medical qualifications. Of course you have to be a doctor to request AP.

If you're willing to force hospitals including christian hospitals to give admitting privileges to all medically qualified doctors who apply, than I think I'd agree its fine to have that as a requirement.

 

[deltex1]

Wendy still has a great rack...otherwise she sucks....

 

[koshergrl]

I'm sorry, perhaps I should have said, its not based solely on medical qualifications. Of course you have to be a doctor to request AP.

If you're willing to force hospitals including christian hospitals to give admitting privileges to all medically qualified doctors who apply, than I think I'd agree its fine to have that as a requirement.

Hm. Do we force all hospitals to give admitting privileges to orthopedic surgeons? To heart surgeons? To brain surgeons?

Nope. See here's the thing...doctors have to compete to get admitting privileges...and that includes abortion doctors.

And here's the other thing...the reason most of them don't have admitting privileges isn't because they're abortionists...it's because they aren't doctors in good standing.

The abortion industry has always attracted the quacks, the perverts, and the monsters.

And refusing to require them to adhere to the same policies and meet the same standards that everyone else in the medical community have to adhere to pretty much guarantees they will always have more than their share of quacks, perverts and monsters...

Thus...women, who should be receiving the best of medical care, will continue to die of sepsis, hemorrhage, perforated bowels, etc.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Well, it would be hypocrisy, if the TEA Party folks had actually been in the meeting. But they weren't -- Democrats lied to law enforcement and had their political enemies' rights suppressed.

But of course, you're a flat-out liar, so you think nothing of making this false equivalence.

That is merely your unfounded and lying opinion.

And it certainly applies to the disrupted town meetings in 2009 and 2010.

They were banned by the government from attending the meeting. That's neither unfounded, lying, nor an opinion. That's just plain fact.

Yup, because they had reason to believe the group would disrupt the public's business.

Avatar: do you believe that citizens have the right to yell and scream in a public tax-supported meeting to communicate their dislike with whatever the public policy is?

 

[AmyNation]

Hospitals grant admitting privileges because they want to make money.

An OBGYN will bring in money because her patients will need the hospital at the end of their pregnancy. Every type of doctor you listed will bring in money because they will absolutely need the hospital. Abortion is not surgery, and a typical abortion will never need to visit the local hospital. There is no incentive for the hospital to grant AP to abortion doctors because the cost(protestors, loss of benefactors, etc) far exceeds the rare cases where a woman who seeks an abortion will need to be treated in the hospital and would like to be treated by the same doctor who performed her abortion.

Also, it's nice to see you totally ignore the large list of reasons I provided as to why hospitals don't grant abortion doctors AP and solely focus on what you consider "the real reason".

What are established clinics supposed to do when the only hospitals in the required radius are Christian hospitals? Or hospitals that have any of the rules and requirements I listed? It then becomes an impossible requiremnt and they are forced to close. Which is, lets be honest, the whole reason for the law.

 

[koshergrl]

Hospitals grant admitting privileges because they want to make money.

An OBGYN will bring in money because her patients will need the hospital at the end of their pregnancy. Every type of doctor you listed will bring in money because they will absolutely need the hospital. Abortion is not surgery, and a typical abortion will never need to visit the local hospital. There is no incentive for the hospital to grant AP to abortion doctors because the cost(protestors, loss of benefactors, etc) far exceeds the rare cases where a woman who seeks an abortion will need to be treated in the hospital and would like to be treated by the same doctor who performed her abortion.

Also, it's nice to see you totally ignore the large list of reasons I provided as to why hospitals don't grant abortion doctors AP and solely focus on what you consider "the real reason".

What are established clinics supposed to do when the only hospitals in the required radius are Christian hospitals? Or hospitals that have any of the rules and requirements I listed? It then becomes an impossible requiremnt and they are forced to close. Which is, lets be honest, the whole reason for the law.

If hospitals granted admitting privileges just to make money, then they would be welcoming abortionists with open arms.

I ignored your reasons because they are foolish imaginings that have nothing to do with anything. Progressives insist on assigning "motives" to organizations and people, and justify pro-criminal, pro-death policies based on what THEY claim motivates OTHERS.

Try to look past the emotion to the reality of the issue. You don't eliminate jails because there are too many murderers. You don't remove laws that protect people because there are people who break those laws.

And you don't protect vulnerable women by refusing to provide oversight of abortion clinics, based on the fact that if there was any oversight, abortion clinics would be forced to close. That's the point. You get rid of the chaff and you force the industry to abide by the same regulations that everybody else abides by. That's what's known as *reform*.

You people are supporting the most vile practices the world has ever seen...and you squawk about what it "used" to be like. It's much, much worse than it ever was...and you abortion acolytes continue to fight to make it ever worse.