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Just a thought:
If homosexuality is genetic, and being as homo sex doesn't produce offspring, evolution would have eliminated homos from the human race a long time ago.
You Leftie homos twist and spin science to fit whatever is your agenda at the time.
The De Vay studies a few years pointed to a possibility that sense of smell may have something to do with it in a few cases, but that is indirect evidence of a genetic cause for a very few homosexuals, and not some 'gay gene' or other; most are not exclusively homosexual, and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of environmental causes and mental disorders. The only real issue is whether its an associative disorder or a primary disorder.
Unfortunately, no such research can be done given the political hoaxes surrounding the subject, making sure objective scientific studies never get conducted.
No, it's not. In fact, I've already posted a sizable crop of findings which show homosexuals and heterosexuals to be different at the biological level.
"Conversion" therapy needs to be banned for anyone under 18. If you're 18 or over and you want to go to angel therapy, pillow therapy or "conversion" therapy, fine.
Then you should also insist they ban treatment for gender dysphoria for anyone under 18, just to be intellectually consistent.
That wouldn't be being consistent. One is proven harmful and is panned by major medical associations, the other is not.
So we is the left saying that drug and alcohol therapy could be damaging to people. They have found addiction issues to be genetic. We are asking addicts to change the inherit quality. That is like asking a gay person to be straight, why are we not changing laws to accommodate the addicts?
Because there's no lobby in Washington for drunkards.
Yes, I've checked.
Technically "drunkards" probably not, for the alcohol industry? Yes
ANHEUSER-BUSCH COMPANIES INC. POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE
Location: ST. LOUIS, MO 63118
Industry: Beer, Wine & Liquor; Beer
Treasurer: ADAMS, RAYMOND J
FEC Committee ID: C00034488
Anheuser-Busch Summary | OpenSecrets
>>>>
How unfortunate that at a time when over one-third of the states in the United States are allowing for same-sex marriage and are condemning hate against GLBT people, Texas has to come out with this crud. Gay conversion therapy has been shot down by many medical professionals as not working and causing great harm to many. Yet Texas, the backward state, has to introduce this as the *main* part of the Republican's agenda for Texas. The following article explains it quite well and exemplifies the need for Republicans to gather more love and compassion for people who may be different from them and to stop feeling they are far superior to them. But people are taking note of this everywhere. And in the end, it can only be remembered as a black mark against Texas and a black eye for the nation as a whole.
Why is Texas GOP backing gay conversion therapy?
Opinion: Why is Texas GOP backing gay conversion therapy? - CNN.com
Why is Texas GOP backing gay conversion therapy?
So your contention is gays are the way the are, just because that's the way they are? So explain it to me, is it like preferring a blue item over say a red or green one? Come on, clue the rest of us uninformed why people become gay, what attracts them to that particular behavior if it's not genetic?
Didn't say it's not genetic. I said there is no one gay gene. There is no simple genetic on/off switch.
That said, the explanation for homosexuality vs heterosexuality that is forming out of research is "it's complicated." For instance, here is a compilation from Wikipedia of what modern studies have found are trending biological differences between straight and gay people:
I don't think anyone has to memorize lists like this or else they're "uninformed" but why not grasp what it means: that gay and straight people have differences at the biological level. So there seem to be a lot of factors to account for to say why someone turns out straight or gay but it's very clear at this point that someone can no more change their sexual orientation through therapy than they could the direction of their hair whorl.Gay men and straight women have, on average, equally proportioned brain hemispheres. Lesbian women and straight men have, on average, slightly larger right brain hemispheres.[55]
The VIP SCN nucleus of the hypothalamus is larger in men than in women, and larger in gay men than in heterosexual men.[56]
Gay men report, on an average, slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men.[57]
The average size of the INAH-3 in the brains of gay men is approximately the same size as INAH 3 in women, which is significantly smaller, and the cells more densely packed, than in heterosexual men's brains.[34]
The anterior commissure is larger in women than men and was reported to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men,[33] but a subsequent study found no such difference.[58]
Gay men's brains respond differently to fluoxetine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.[59]
The functioning of the inner ear and the central auditory system in lesbians and bisexual women are more like the functional properties found in men than in non-gay women (the researchers argued this finding was consistent with the prenatal hormonal theory of sexual orientation).[60]
The suprachiasmatic nucleus was found by Swaab and Hopffman to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men,[61] the suprachiasmatic nucleus is also known to be larger in men than in women.[62]
The startle response (eyeblink following a loud sound) is similarly masculinized in lesbians and bisexual women.[63]
Gay and non-gay people's brains respond differently to two putative sex pheromones (AND, found in male armpit secretions, and EST, found in female urine).[30][64][65]
The amygdala, a region of the brain, is more active in gay men than non-gay men when exposed to sexually arousing material.[66]
Finger length ratios between the index and ring fingers have been reported to differ, on average, between non-gay and lesbian women.[67][68][69][70][71][72][73][74][75][76]
Gay men and lesbians are significantly more likely to be left-handed or ambidextrous than non-gay men and women;[77][78][79] Simon LeVay argues that because "[h]and preference is observable before birth...[80] [t]he observation of increased non-right-handness in gay people is therefore consistent with the idea that sexual orientation is influenced by prenatal processes," perhaps heredity.[34]
A study of over 50 gay men found that about 23% had counterclockwise hair whorl, as opposed to 8% in the general population. This may correlate with left-handedness.[81]
Gay men have increased ridge density in the fingerprints on their left thumbs and pinkies.[81]
Length of limbs and hands of gay men is smaller compared to height than the general population, but only among white men.[81]
Determinism is the escape hatch for lazy people that don't want to deal with the fact that we have free will and prefer to blame unseen forces for their predicaments. It is the emotional and intellectual equivalent of religious fundamentalism or a belief in astrology, and I categorically reject it. Would you like me to go through the examples you posted individually to point out why they are flawed, or do you prefer to believe that gay men actually have larger penises?
You're flopping around like a fish, Staph. The Texas GOP put unicorn fart therapy in their platform. That makes them a laughingstock. Let's just hope their irresponsible behavior doesn't lead to more gay kids committing suicide.
Organizational Positions on Reparative Therapy
American Academy of Pediatrics
"Confusion about sexual orientation is not unusual during adolescence. Counseling may be helpful for young people who are uncertain about their sexual orientation or for those who are uncertain about how to express their sexuality and might profit from an attempt at clarification through a counseling or psychotherapeutic initiative. Therapy directed specifically at changing sexual orientation is contraindicated, since it can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation."
Homosexuality and Adolescence, Pediatrics.
American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy
"The American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy takes the position that same sex orientation is not a mental disorder. Therefore, we do not believe that sexual orientation in and of itself requires treatment or intervention."
Statement on Nonpathologizing Sexual Orientation.
American Counseling Association
"The American Counseling Association opposes portrayals of lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation; and supports the dissemination of accurate information about sexual orientation, mental health, and appropriate interventions in order to counteract bias that is based on ignorance or unfounded beliefs about same-gender sexual orientation."
Resolution, as reported in the American Psychological Association's publication, "Just the Facts about Sexual Orientation and Youth."
American Medical Association
"Our AMA… opposes, the use of 'reparative' or 'conversion' therapy that is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation."
H-160.991, Health Care Needs of the Homosexual Population.
American Psychiatric Association
"Psychotherapeutic modalities to convert or 'repair' homosexuality are based on developmental theories whose scientific validity is questionable. Furthermore, anecdotal reports of "cures" are counterbalanced by anecdotal claims of psychological harm. In the last four decades, "reparative" therapists have not produced any rigorous scientific research to substantiate their claims of cure. Until there is such research available, [the American Psychiatric Association] recommends that ethical practitioners refrain from attempts to change individuals' sexual orientation, keeping in mind the medical dictum to first, do no harm.
The potential risks of reparative therapy are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient. Many patients who have undergone reparative therapy relate that they were inaccurately told that homosexuals are lonely, unhappy individuals who never achieve acceptance or satisfaction. The possibility that the person might achieve happiness and satisfying interpersonal relationships as a gay man or lesbian is not presented, nor are alternative approaches to dealing with the effects of societal stigmatization discussed.
Therefore, the American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as reparative or conversion therapy which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her sexual homosexual orientation."
Position Statement on Therapies Focused on Attempts to Change Sexual Orientation (Reparative or Conversion Therapies).
American Psychoanalytic Association
"Same-gender sexual orientation cannot be assumed to represent a deficit in personality development or the expression of psychopathology. As with any societal prejudice, anti-homosexual bias negatively affects mental health, contributing to an enduring sense of stigma and pervasive self-criticism in people of same-gender sexual orientation through the internalization of such prejudice.
As in all psychoanalytic treatments, the goal of analysis with homosexual patients is understanding. Psychoanalytic technique does not encompass purposeful efforts to "convert" or "repair" an individual's sexual orientation. Such directed efforts are against fundamental principles of psychoanalytic treatment and often result in substantial psychological pain by reinforcing damaging internalized homophobic attitudes."
Position Statement on Reparative Therapy.
American Psychological Association
"THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, That the American Psychological Association affirms that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality regardless of sexual orientation identity;
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the American Psychological Association reaffirms its position that homosexuality per se is not a mental disorder and opposes portrayals of sexual minority youths and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation;
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the American Psychological Association concludes that there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation;
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the American Psychological Association encourages mental health professionals to avoid misrepresenting the efficacy of sexual orientation change efforts by promoting or promising change in sexual orientation when providing assistance to individuals distressed by their own or others' sexual orientation…"
Resolution on Appropriate Affirmative Responses to Sexual Orientation Distress and Change Efforts.
Every single one of those organizations supported it just a few years ago, and changed their support as the result of political pressure, not science. In other words, all psychology is fake science anyway, so all therapies are equally valid.
In case you missed the point, that means all therapies are invalid, but it still remains none of the government's business what consenting adults do.
Then you should also insist they ban treatment for gender dysphoria for anyone under 18, just to be intellectually consistent.
That wouldn't be being consistent. One is proven harmful and is panned by major medical associations, the other is not.
One is arbitrary declared harmful because some practitioners used outmoded techniques back in the dark ages, the other isn't because it would be political suicide for the groups to point out the fact that most children who get treated for dysphoria end up regretting the decision later in life. I suppose you might see yourself as being intellectually consistent because you blindly follow the decrees of the high priest instead of thinking for yourself, but I don't see it that way.
Translation: you know you cannot answer my question and so offer up a red herring.A better question would be....How does disagreeing with the usual liberal line on homosexuals equate to hate?
How unfortunate that at a time when over one-third of the states in the United States are allowing for same-sex marriage and are condemning hate against GLBT people, Texas has to come out with this crud. Gay conversion therapy has been shot down by many medical professionals as not working and causing great harm to many. Yet Texas, the backward state, has to introduce this as the *main* part of the Republican's agenda for Texas. The following article explains it quite well and exemplifies the need for Republicans to gather more love and compassion for people who may be different from them and to stop feeling they are far superior to them. But people are taking note of this everywhere. And in the end, it can only be remembered as a black mark against Texas and a black eye for the nation as a whole.
Why is Texas GOP backing gay conversion therapy?
Opinion: Why is Texas GOP backing gay conversion therapy? - CNN.com
How unfortunate that at a time when over one-third of the states in the United States are allowing for same-sex marriage and are condemning hate against GLBT people, Texas has to come out with this crud. Gay conversion therapy has been shot down by many medical professionals as not working and causing great harm to many. Yet Texas, the backward state, has to introduce this as the *main* part of the Republican's agenda for Texas. The following article explains it quite well and exemplifies the need for Republicans to gather more love and compassion for people who may be different from them and to stop feeling they are far superior to them. But people are taking note of this everywhere. And in the end, it can only be remembered as a black mark against Texas and a black eye for the nation as a whole.
Why is Texas GOP backing gay conversion therapy?
Opinion: Why is Texas GOP backing gay conversion therapy? - CNN.com
How exactly is it "hateful"? Misguided perhaps, wasteful even but you lefties are wearing out the word "hate" almost as fast as you did "Racist".
Hey torch, one third of States are not allowing same sex marriage. In most of those States a Liberal perverted Judge has arbitrarily overruled the Democratic will of the people.
You're flopping around like a fish, Staph. The Texas GOP put unicorn fart therapy in their platform. That makes them a laughingstock. Let's just hope their irresponsible behavior doesn't lead to more gay kids committing suicide.Organizational Positions on Reparative Therapy
American Academy of Pediatrics
"Confusion about sexual orientation is not unusual during adolescence. Counseling may be helpful for young people who are uncertain about their sexual orientation or for those who are uncertain about how to express their sexuality and might profit from an attempt at clarification through a counseling or psychotherapeutic initiative. Therapy directed specifically at changing sexual orientation is contraindicated, since it can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation."
Homosexuality and Adolescence, Pediatrics.
American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy
"The American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy takes the position that same sex orientation is not a mental disorder. Therefore, we do not believe that sexual orientation in and of itself requires treatment or intervention."
Statement on Nonpathologizing Sexual Orientation.
American Counseling Association
"The American Counseling Association opposes portrayals of lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation; and supports the dissemination of accurate information about sexual orientation, mental health, and appropriate interventions in order to counteract bias that is based on ignorance or unfounded beliefs about same-gender sexual orientation."
Resolution, as reported in the American Psychological Association's publication, "Just the Facts about Sexual Orientation and Youth."
American Medical Association
"Our AMA opposes, the use of 'reparative' or 'conversion' therapy that is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation."
H-160.991, Health Care Needs of the Homosexual Population.
American Psychiatric Association
"Psychotherapeutic modalities to convert or 'repair' homosexuality are based on developmental theories whose scientific validity is questionable. Furthermore, anecdotal reports of "cures" are counterbalanced by anecdotal claims of psychological harm. In the last four decades, "reparative" therapists have not produced any rigorous scientific research to substantiate their claims of cure. Until there is such research available, [the American Psychiatric Association] recommends that ethical practitioners refrain from attempts to change individuals' sexual orientation, keeping in mind the medical dictum to first, do no harm.
The potential risks of reparative therapy are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient. Many patients who have undergone reparative therapy relate that they were inaccurately told that homosexuals are lonely, unhappy individuals who never achieve acceptance or satisfaction. The possibility that the person might achieve happiness and satisfying interpersonal relationships as a gay man or lesbian is not presented, nor are alternative approaches to dealing with the effects of societal stigmatization discussed.
Therefore, the American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as reparative or conversion therapy which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her sexual homosexual orientation."
Position Statement on Therapies Focused on Attempts to Change Sexual Orientation (Reparative or Conversion Therapies).
American Psychoanalytic Association
"Same-gender sexual orientation cannot be assumed to represent a deficit in personality development or the expression of psychopathology. As with any societal prejudice, anti-homosexual bias negatively affects mental health, contributing to an enduring sense of stigma and pervasive self-criticism in people of same-gender sexual orientation through the internalization of such prejudice.
As in all psychoanalytic treatments, the goal of analysis with homosexual patients is understanding. Psychoanalytic technique does not encompass purposeful efforts to "convert" or "repair" an individual's sexual orientation. Such directed efforts are against fundamental principles of psychoanalytic treatment and often result in substantial psychological pain by reinforcing damaging internalized homophobic attitudes."
Position Statement on Reparative Therapy.
American Psychological Association
"THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, That the American Psychological Association affirms that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality regardless of sexual orientation identity;
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the American Psychological Association reaffirms its position that homosexuality per se is not a mental disorder and opposes portrayals of sexual minority youths and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation;
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the American Psychological Association concludes that there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation;
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the American Psychological Association encourages mental health professionals to avoid misrepresenting the efficacy of sexual orientation change efforts by promoting or promising change in sexual orientation when providing assistance to individuals distressed by their own or others' sexual orientation "
Resolution on Appropriate Affirmative Responses to Sexual Orientation Distress and Change Efforts.
Every single one of those organizations supported it just a few years ago, and changed their support as the result of political pressure, not science. In other words, all psychology is fake science anyway, so all therapies are equally valid.
In case you missed the point, that means all therapies are invalid, but it still remains none of the government's business what consenting adults do.
"A few years ago?" The American Psychoanalytic Association stopped classifying homosexuality as a mental disorder in 1991. The American Psychological Association did it in 1975 and the American Psychiatric Association in 1973. Many of the organizations on that list finally came together and released a document on homosexuality which, among other items, definitively stated they were opposed to so-called reparative therapy in 1999.
Didn't say it's not genetic. I said there is no one gay gene. There is no simple genetic on/off switch.
That said, the explanation for homosexuality vs heterosexuality that is forming out of research is "it's complicated." For instance, here is a compilation from Wikipedia of what modern studies have found are trending biological differences between straight and gay people:
I don't think anyone has to memorize lists like this or else they're "uninformed" but why not grasp what it means: that gay and straight people have differences at the biological level. So there seem to be a lot of factors to account for to say why someone turns out straight or gay but it's very clear at this point that someone can no more change their sexual orientation through therapy than they could the direction of their hair whorl.
Determinism is the escape hatch for lazy people that don't want to deal with the fact that we have free will and prefer to blame unseen forces for their predicaments. It is the emotional and intellectual equivalent of religious fundamentalism or a belief in astrology, and I categorically reject it. Would you like me to go through the examples you posted individually to point out why they are flawed, or do you prefer to believe that gay men actually have larger penises?
Do it.
Are People Born Gay?The above problems aside, even the data from LeVay's study did not prove that anyone was born gay. This is the case for at least two reasons:
- Both groups of men covered essentially the same range of sizes. One could be gay (HM) with a small INAH-3 or with a large one. One could also be in the "heterosexual" category (M) with either a small or large INAH-3. Clearly, these men were not held to a sexual orientation by their INAH-3 biology! As the data shows, the INAH-3 size of three of the homosexual men puts them clearly in the "heterosexual" category (with one having the second largest INAH-3!). If all you know about any of LeVay's subjects is INAH-3 size, you could not accurately predict whether they are heterosexual or homosexual, male or female.
- A study that showed a clear difference in INAH-3 sizes, would still leave another question unanswered: are men gay because of a smaller INAH-3, or was their INAH-3 smaller because of their homosexual actions, thoughts, and/or feelings? It is known that the brain does change in response to changes in behaviour and environment. For example, Newsweek reported that "in people reading Braille after becoming blind, the area of the brain controlling the reading finger grew larger." As well, in male songbirds, "the brain area associated with mating is not only larger than in the female, but varies according to the season" (Newsweek, Feb. 24, 1992, p. 50).
Determinism is the escape hatch for lazy people that don't want to deal with the fact that we have free will and prefer to blame unseen forces for their predicaments. It is the emotional and intellectual equivalent of religious fundamentalism or a belief in astrology, and I categorically reject it. Would you like me to go through the examples you posted individually to point out why they are flawed, or do you prefer to believe that gay men actually have larger penises?
Do it.
I don't use Wiki as a source, hope that actual science doesn't confuse you.
Are People Born Gay?The above problems aside, even the data from LeVay's study did not prove that anyone was born gay. This is the case for at least two reasons:
- Both groups of men covered essentially the same range of sizes. One could be gay (HM) with a small INAH-3 or with a large one. One could also be in the "heterosexual" category (M) with either a small or large INAH-3. Clearly, these men were not held to a sexual orientation by their INAH-3 biology! As the data shows, the INAH-3 size of three of the homosexual men puts them clearly in the "heterosexual" category (with one having the second largest INAH-3!). If all you know about any of LeVay's subjects is INAH-3 size, you could not accurately predict whether they are heterosexual or homosexual, male or female.
- A study that showed a clear difference in INAH-3 sizes, would still leave another question unanswered: are men gay because of a smaller INAH-3, or was their INAH-3 smaller because of their homosexual actions, thoughts, and/or feelings? It is known that the brain does change in response to changes in behaviour and environment. For example, Newsweek reported that "in people reading Braille after becoming blind, the area of the brain controlling the reading finger grew larger." As well, in male songbirds, "the brain area associated with mating is not only larger than in the female, but varies according to the season" (Newsweek, Feb. 24, 1992, p. 50).
Oops, that blew the biggest piece of your argument out of the water, so sorry.
Even PFLAG scoffs at the "Born gay" meme.
Why Ask Why?: Addressing the Research on Homosexuality and Biology - Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays - Google Books
Feel free to keep believing in astrology though, I know it makes you feel smart. I prefer to go with the evidence and not make excuses for people's sexual preference. In otter words, I accept them as they are, I don't try to force them into a box to make myself feel better about them.
You should try it sometime.
Do it.
I don't use Wiki as a source, hope that actual science doesn't confuse you.
Are People Born Gay?The above problems aside, even the data from LeVay's study did not prove that anyone was born gay. This is the case for at least two reasons:
- Both groups of men covered essentially the same range of sizes. One could be gay (HM) with a small INAH-3 or with a large one. One could also be in the "heterosexual" category (M) with either a small or large INAH-3. Clearly, these men were not held to a sexual orientation by their INAH-3 biology! As the data shows, the INAH-3 size of three of the homosexual men puts them clearly in the "heterosexual" category (with one having the second largest INAH-3!). If all you know about any of LeVay's subjects is INAH-3 size, you could not accurately predict whether they are heterosexual or homosexual, male or female.
- A study that showed a clear difference in INAH-3 sizes, would still leave another question unanswered: are men gay because of a smaller INAH-3, or was their INAH-3 smaller because of their homosexual actions, thoughts, and/or feelings? It is known that the brain does change in response to changes in behaviour and environment. For example, Newsweek reported that "in people reading Braille after becoming blind, the area of the brain controlling the reading finger grew larger." As well, in male songbirds, "the brain area associated with mating is not only larger than in the female, but varies according to the season" (Newsweek, Feb. 24, 1992, p. 50).
Oops, that blew the biggest piece of your argument out of the water, so sorry.
Even PFLAG scoffs at the "Born gay" meme.
Why Ask Why?: Addressing the Research on Homosexuality and Biology - Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays - Google Books
Feel free to keep believing in astrology though, I know it makes you feel smart. I prefer to go with the evidence and not make excuses for people's sexual preference. In otter words, I accept them as they are, I don't try to force them into a box to make myself feel better about them.
You should try it sometime.
Try reading some biological studies:
Science: Homosexuality Isn't Genetic, but It Is Biological
Not "genetic". biological.
And the far left hates anyone that is not far left...
