That freak in Florida doesn't speak for me

[Newby]

i think its quite a stretch to compare this to crystal night

Hey, how about that, we agree on something.

 

[xotoxi]

What am I defending? Since you seem to know so much better than I do?

You are defending his right to burn the Koran, yet you take offense when people interpret your defense as supporting him.

However, on the other side, many of us oppose him burning the Koran, yet you interpret this opposition as advocating having his rights and freedoms revoked.

Do you see the hypocrisy?

You can oppose his burning of it all you want, do you agree that it is his right to do so tho?

Of course.

Do you agree that most of those who have spoken out in opposition are not advocating for his rights being infringed?

 

[martybegan]

You are a Christian. Do you morally approve of these buffoons in Florida?

Do I morally approve? On what grounds? That they're burning what is a sacred text to some? That they're making a negative statement about Islam? Or that their actions could potentially cause harm to someone else?

As a christian, I would not burn a Koran, I simply do not care one way or the other about the book itself, and it would prove nothing, nor change anything. My question to you, which has been brought up by others earlier in the thread, is do you allow the threat of violence or harm to stiffle free speech, which is clearly the implication here? Which is more wrong to you?

You don't give a shit if someone else's holy book is burned. It's all free speech to you.

Remember the Nazi's on Kristalnacht breaking into Jewish shops. That was free speech too.
It was wrong. You do follow a code of ethics about right and wrong don't you? Is destroying a holy book right or wrong?

Free speech doesn't not allow fighting words. Burning someone sacred text is fighting words IMO.
I can't believe you defend these horrible people in Florida just because they're Christians. I'm Buddhist and I deplore the fighting by Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka. They are not following the Buddha's teachings.

Bzzt! wrong!. Breaking the windows was an actual crime, called destruction of property.

And burning a book is no where NEAR fighting words if you are a rational human being. Fighting words are actual call outs, like "I'm going to kick your fucking ass" or " I hate *******" standing in a black church.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Are all Christians alike? Is this church in Florida an anomaly or typical? Don't hide behind free speech rights.

We all concede they have the right to do this even if its wrong.

Is it right or wrong Newby?

Do you approve of these extremists just because they're attacking Muslims?

What if it was the Torah they were burning?

 

[Newby]

You are defending his right to burn the Koran, yet you take offense when people interpret your defense as supporting him.

However, on the other side, many of us oppose him burning the Koran, yet you interpret this opposition as advocating having his rights and freedoms revoked.

Do you see the hypocrisy?

You can oppose his burning of it all you want, do you agree that it is his right to do so tho?

Of course.

Do you agree that most of those who have spoken out in opposition are not advocating for his rights being infringed?

Why are you arguing with me then? Sounds like you agree with me? And you wonder how I can take it that you want his rights infringed? All I'm arguing is that he has a right to do this if he so choses, yet I'm getting a lot of crap for doing so.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Breaking into private property was 'free speech'? Really?

I'm not defending them because they're 'christians' Sky, I'm not defending what they're doing at all, sadly you just don't get where I'm coming from. It's actually kind of scary that some people don't get it.

You haven't once condemned them.

While you're condemning them, are you in agreement that it's their right?

Yes. Do YOU condemn them or not?

 

[Sky Dancer]

You can oppose his burning of it all you want, do you agree that it is his right to do so tho?

Of course.

Do you agree that most of those who have spoken out in opposition are not advocating for his rights being infringed?

Why are you arguing with me then? Sounds like you agree with me? And you wonder how I can take it that you want his rights infringed? All I'm arguing is that he has a right to do this if he so choses, yet I'm getting a lot of crap for doing so.

You're getting crap because you don't condemn the book burning of the Qu'ran. It's aok with you. You are defending a Christian even when they're wrong. Why?

Not one iota of condemnation for this wretched action.

 

[Newby]

Are all Christians alike? Is this church in Florida an anomaly or typical? Don't hide behind free speech rights.

We all concede they have the right to do this even if its wrong.

Is it right or wrong Newby?

Do you approve of these extremists just because they're attacking Muslims?

What if it was the Torah they were burning?

You really need to get out more Sky, you must live a very sheltered existance.

I asked you to put the right and wrong of it in context before, and you haven't. I've answered your question before.

 

[Newby]

You haven't once condemned them.

While you're condemning them, are you in agreement that it's their right?

Yes. Do YOU condemn them or not?

I replied with this, and you ignored it.

Do I morally approve? On what grounds? That they're burning what is a sacred text to some? That they're making a negative statement about Islam? Or that their actions could potentially cause harm to someone else?

As a christian, I would not burn a Koran, I simply do not care one way or the other about the book itself, and it would prove nothing, nor change anything. My question to you, which has been brought up by others earlier in the thread, is do you allow the threat of violence or harm to stiffle free speech, which is clearly the implication here? Which is more wrong to you?

 

[strollingbones]

okay this thread is totally derailed....

1. i dont think newby has to condemn anyone to prove a point

2. no one is trying to deny this minister his right to burn the koran

3. sky has proven which law....godwins?

 

[Sky Dancer]

No, I'm too busy being an American and being more concerned about my rights, so sorry.

Defending the right to do harm. I don't consider that very American. Why can't you state that this Church is exttremist? Does your church burn the Qu'ran? Why or why not?

Where's the harm? What are you saying is harmful?

It's hurting the Muslims that this Christian group burns their holy books. It is done with the intention of hurting Muslims.

This is still ok with you apparently. You must really hate Muslims.

I respect all religious texts and would not deliberately destroy or deface other's property.

 

[Frank]

Defending the right to do harm. I don't consider that very American. Why can't you state that this Church is exttremist? Does your church burn the Qu'ran? Why or why not?

Where's the harm? What are you saying is harmful?

It's hurting the Muslims that this Christian group burns their holy books. It is done with the intention of hurting Muslims.

This is still ok with you apparently. You must really hate Muslims.

Sorta like putting a mosque close to ground zero? I can see that....

 

[xotoxi]

You can oppose his burning of it all you want, do you agree that it is his right to do so tho?

Of course.

Do you agree that most of those who have spoken out in opposition are not advocating for his rights being infringed?

Why are you arguing with me then? Sounds like you agree with me? And you wonder how I can take it that you want his rights infringed? All I'm arguing is that he has a right to do this if he so choses, yet I'm getting a lot of crap for doing so.

I'm arguing with you because I disagree with him burning the books. I would like to see him decide not to do it. I have a problem with it.

 

[Newby]

Of course.

Do you agree that most of those who have spoken out in opposition are not advocating for his rights being infringed?

Why are you arguing with me then? Sounds like you agree with me? And you wonder how I can take it that you want his rights infringed? All I'm arguing is that he has a right to do this if he so choses, yet I'm getting a lot of crap for doing so.

You're getting crap because you don't condemn the book burning of the Qu'ran. It's aok with you. You are defending a Christian even when they're wrong. Why?

Not one iota of condemnation for this wretched action.

I don't think 'condemn' is the right word, I'm not emotionally invested in this one way or the other, other than free speech rights. I don't agree that it's the right or good thing to do, as I said it proves nothing, nor does it change anything. The actual act of burning a book in symbolism doesn't rank up there at the top of the list of atrocities, so I have a bit of a hard time getting as worked up about it as you apparently are.

If the 'harm' you are referring too is the potential violence it could cause by muslim extremists resorting to real violence, my question to you was if you felt it was right to stiffle free speech at that point?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Are all Christians alike? Is this church in Florida an anomaly or typical? Don't hide behind free speech rights.

We all concede they have the right to do this even if its wrong.

Is it right or wrong Newby?

Do you approve of these extremists just because they're attacking Muslims?

What if it was the Torah they were burning?

You really need to get out more Sky, you must live a very sheltered existance.

I asked you to put the right and wrong of it in context before, and you haven't. I've answered your question before.

It's pretty simple. You either say I don't approve of this churches action to burn holy books or I do.

 

[xotoxi]

Why are you arguing with me then? Sounds like you agree with me? And you wonder how I can take it that you want his rights infringed? All I'm arguing is that he has a right to do this if he so choses, yet I'm getting a lot of crap for doing so.

You're getting crap because you don't condemn the book burning of the Qu'ran. It's aok with you. You are defending a Christian even when they're wrong. Why?

Not one iota of condemnation for this wretched action.

I don't think 'condemn' is the right word, I'm not emotionally invested in this one way or the other, other than free speech rights. I don't agree that it's the right or good thing to do, as I said it proves nothing, nor does it change anything. The actual act of burning a book in symbolism doesn't rank up there at the top of the list of atrocities, so I have a bit of a hard time getting as worked up about it as you apparently are.

If the 'harm' you are referring too is the potential violence it could cause by muslim extremists resorting to real violence, my question to you was if you felt it was right to stiffle free speech at that point?

Newby, did you oppose the building of a mosque near ground zero?

If so, why? If not, why not?

 

[Jeremy]

Can we at least all agree that Terry Jones is an asshole?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Of course.

Do you agree that most of those who have spoken out in opposition are not advocating for his rights being infringed?

Why are you arguing with me then? Sounds like you agree with me? And you wonder how I can take it that you want his rights infringed? All I'm arguing is that he has a right to do this if he so choses, yet I'm getting a lot of crap for doing so.

I'm arguing with you because I disagree with him burning the books. I would like to see him decide not to do it. I have a problem with it.

Thank you for being so clear. Please teach Newby.

 

[strollingbones]

whooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa she doesnt have to be that way....she has said she supports his freedom of expression...which does allow anyone to burn anything if they have a permit or the land....

and no its not pretty simple....book burning is always a complex issue

 

[Newby]

Defending the right to do harm. I don't consider that very American. Why can't you state that this Church is exttremist? Does your church burn the Qu'ran? Why or why not?

Where's the harm? What are you saying is harmful?

It's hurting the Muslims that this Christian group burns their holy books. It is done with the intention of hurting Muslims.

This is still ok with you apparently. You must really hate Muslims.

I respect all religious texts and would not deliberately destroy or deface other's property.

Why would muslims care about what others think of their book? Really Sky, in all honesty, it wouldn't bother me the slightest if someone burned a Bible, it changes nothing in how I feel or what I believe. I hear crap each and every day on here about christians and no one gives a damn whether it hurts me or not. It's kind of sad that you seem to care if muslim's feelings are hurt, but the opposite is true for christians. We should tolerate what anyone says or does, and 'tolerate' it.

And it doesn't matter even if it was done with the intention to slight muslims, you can't infringe someone's free speech rights because you don't agree with them. It's as simple as that.