That Which Is Caesar's....

[Gadawg73]

Our rights do not come from God as no one has ever had the authority to speak for God anymore than anyone else. Can not even get people that follow The Bible to agree on the translations, interpretations and meanings.
Someone stating or writing down that they speak for God doesn't make it true.
Ask someone that is jailed for smoking weed if his rights were given to him by God. Wasn't God that made it illegal to smoke weed, that was man that did that.
Women were denied the right to vote by man, not God. Man changed the law. Slavery used to be legal and now it is not, man not God made that law.
Human progress has always been dependent on the greatest moral reasoning of mankind, not God. Laws can be made to make things better in society and they can be made to oppress. There are good laws and bad laws regardless of any claim that God commands or does not command law has a particular divine authority.
So let us add God to the equation. OK
How do we decide which people claiming to speak for God and which laws of the religion should be followed? Should we stone people to death that work on the Sabbath, cut off the hand off of a thief? When it comes to Scripture Americans pick and choose which laws to follow based on their own religious and moral convictions and reasoning. Some people have a greater authority to enforce their religious opinions than others. This is POLITICAL authority and not divine authority.
The Founders knew this and created a secular government with the United States Constitution, LAWS as the foundation of this country.
"The foundation of our Empire was not laid in the gloomy age of ignorance and superstition but at an epoch when the rights of mankind were better understood and more clearly defined than at any former period" George Washington 1783

More importantly, our rights from a God who defines himself (and the founding Fathers defined him as) the "Creator". He created you and I and everyone else in the universe to be unique and special. Each one of us he created with a purpose.

If you remove the recognition that all men were "created" equal, then it turns into a question of where did the rights come from. If we evolved, then it is a matter of whoever is the fittest god of his/her own universe. The man with the bigger gun and the biggest ego will subject all those around him/her to their morals or lack thereof.

In the name of evolution, millions of unborn children have been murdered because "evolutionary thinking" deemed them "not human", eugenics are promoted because those who "don't have a good quality of life" should be killed according to survival of the fittest, and the list goes on...

The reason there are disputes over Bible translations is because there is a thing called moral absolutes. In other words, it is worth fighting for the truth. If there was no truth then there would be nothing to dispute over, everything would be correct. You obviously believe there is a right and a wrong or you wouldn't be posting on these forums.

What religion on this earth has consistently TREATED all men equally?
That is why there is a secular government created here backed by the foundation of The Constitution.
Religion, Christianity included for hundreds of years, has a very poor record of treating man equally.
NO where in the law, The United States Constitution, is there any mention of any God or Supreme Being.
My religious beliefs are so strong I do not need one and particularly like the fact there isn't.
Adding God or a Supreme being would have been used to oppress someone that may not believe in God.
The Founders knew that as that is why there is NO religious test for public office clause in The Constitution.

 

[Mad Scientist]

NO WHERE in any place in the Constitution does it state that "rights came from God".

That's right! Because it's in the Declaration of Independence!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…

You DO know there are three documents?

Declaration of Independence: Told the King of England to "Toss off!"
Constitution: Establishes the Framework of Gov't and Separation of Powers.
Bill of Rights: Rights so important the Founding Fathers had them Enumerated.

If you ALLOW that Rights come from MAN then ANY MAN can come along and change them AT WILL.

But if you understand and accept they come from God then no man may take them away from you. Even if they sign a Law.

 

[Gadawg73]

NO WHERE in any place in the Constitution does it state that "rights came from God".

That's right! Because it's in the Declaration of Independence!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…

You DO know there are three documents?

Declaration of Independence: Told the King of England to "Toss off!"
Constitution: Establishes the Framework of Gov't and Separation of Powers.
Bill of Rights: Rights so important the Founding Fathers had them Enumerated.

If you ALLOW that Rights come from MAN then ANY MAN can come along and change them AT WILL.

But if you understand and accept they come from God then no man may take them away from you. Even if they sign a Law.

And that is NOT the law and has no standing anywhere in the law.
Fact is the monarchies changed the law at will because God allowed to them to under his power of divine right.
That is the way it was and that was the law.
A royal could come in your house and fuck your wife and daughter if he wanted to and that was his "right" given to him by the divine right from God.
And the Founders ran from that shit and ended the power of divine right from God with The United States Constitution.
I suggest you try reading it, a most interesting document.
That happens to be the LAW YOU are governed under.
Amazed you never knew that.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Our rights do not come from God as no one has ever had the authority to speak for God anymore than anyone else. Can not even get people that follow The Bible to agree on the translations, interpretations and meanings.
Someone stating or writing down that they speak for God doesn't make it true.
Ask someone that is jailed for smoking weed if his rights were given to him by God. Wasn't God that made it illegal to smoke weed, that was man that did that.
Women were denied the right to vote by man, not God. Man changed the law. Slavery used to be legal and now it is not, man not God made that law.
Human progress has always been dependent on the greatest moral reasoning of mankind, not God. Laws can be made to make things better in society and they can be made to oppress. There are good laws and bad laws regardless of any claim that God commands or does not command law has a particular divine authority.
So let us add God to the equation. OK
How do we decide which people claiming to speak for God and which laws of the religion should be followed? Should we stone people to death that work on the Sabbath, cut off the hand off of a thief? When it comes to Scripture Americans pick and choose which laws to follow based on their own religious and moral convictions and reasoning. Some people have a greater authority to enforce their religious opinions than others. This is POLITICAL authority and not divine authority.
The Founders knew this and created a secular government with the United States Constitution, LAWS as the foundation of this country.
"The foundation of our Empire was not laid in the gloomy age of ignorance and superstition but at an epoch when the rights of mankind were better understood and more clearly defined than at any former period" George Washington 1783

More importantly, our rights from a God who defines himself (and the founding Fathers defined him as) the "Creator". He created you and I and everyone else in the universe to be unique and special. Each one of us he created with a purpose.

If you remove the recognition that all men were "created" equal, then it turns into a question of where did the rights come from. If we evolved, then it is a matter of whoever is the fittest god of his/her own universe. The man with the bigger gun and the biggest ego will subject all those around him/her to their morals or lack thereof.

In the name of evolution, millions of unborn children have been murdered because "evolutionary thinking" deemed them "not human", eugenics are promoted because those who "don't have a good quality of life" should be killed according to survival of the fittest, and the list goes on...

The reason there are disputes over Bible translations is because there is a thing called moral absolutes. In other words, it is worth fighting for the truth. If there was no truth then there would be nothing to dispute over, everything would be correct. You obviously believe there is a right and a wrong or you wouldn't be posting on these forums.

What religion on this earth has consistently TREATED all men equally?
That is why there is a secular government created here backed by the foundation of The Constitution.
Religion, Christianity included for hundreds of years, has a very poor record of treating man equally.
NO where in the law, The United States Constitution, is there any mention of any God or Supreme Being.
My religious beliefs are so strong I do not need one and particularly like the fact there isn't.
Adding God or a Supreme being would have been used to oppress someone that may not believe in God.
The Founders knew that as that is why there is NO religious test for public office clause in The Constitution.

No there is no test for public office clause in the US Constitution because that was left up to the individual states, many of which DID originally have religious test clauses stating that one had to be a Christian (and in some cases Jew or Christian) to hold office. Note: I am not saying that this is good or bad. The Founding Fathers left the Constitution as basic and straight forward as possible so as to limit government the best they could in order to secure the freedoms of its citizens. To include religious stipulations would serve of little value while the absence does not prove that this country was not founded upon Christian principles. The Constitution neither requires nor forbids the practice of religion in public office.

The Founders also happened to write the Declaration of Independence which does indeed mention the "Creator". Moreover, the Mayflower compact states that the intent of their pilgrimage was for the "advancement of the Christian faith". And the first act of the very first President (along with the House and Senate) was to dedicate this nation to God. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story said, "I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law … There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations." The arguments by the Founders had nothing to do whether or not this nation should be Christian in nature, but rather how to allow freedom of worship for all denominations of the Christian faith as well as other religions.

The way the Founding Fathers saw it was that unless everyone in this nation was educated in and acting in accordance with Christian principles, the system on which this nation was found would not continue to function. Noah Webster remarked in the preface of his 1828 Dictionary, "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed … No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people."

 

[PoliticalChic]

Our rights do not come from God as no one has ever had the authority to speak for God anymore than anyone else. Can not even get people that follow The Bible to agree on the translations, interpretations and meanings.
Someone stating or writing down that they speak for God doesn't make it true.
Ask someone that is jailed for smoking weed if his rights were given to him by God. Wasn't God that made it illegal to smoke weed, that was man that did that.
Women were denied the right to vote by man, not God. Man changed the law. Slavery used to be legal and now it is not, man not God made that law.
Human progress has always been dependent on the greatest moral reasoning of mankind, not God. Laws can be made to make things better in society and they can be made to oppress. There are good laws and bad laws regardless of any claim that God commands or does not command law has a particular divine authority.
So let us add God to the equation. OK
How do we decide which people claiming to speak for God and which laws of the religion should be followed? Should we stone people to death that work on the Sabbath, cut off the hand off of a thief? When it comes to Scripture Americans pick and choose which laws to follow based on their own religious and moral convictions and reasoning. Some people have a greater authority to enforce their religious opinions than others. This is POLITICAL authority and not divine authority.
The Founders knew this and created a secular government with the United States Constitution, LAWS as the foundation of this country.
"The foundation of our Empire was not laid in the gloomy age of ignorance and superstition but at an epoch when the rights of mankind were better understood and more clearly defined than at any former period" George Washington 1783

More importantly, our rights from a God who defines himself (and the founding Fathers defined him as) the "Creator". He created you and I and everyone else in the universe to be unique and special. Each one of us he created with a purpose.

If you remove the recognition that all men were "created" equal, then it turns into a question of where did the rights come from. If we evolved, then it is a matter of whoever is the fittest god of his/her own universe. The man with the bigger gun and the biggest ego will subject all those around him/her to their morals or lack thereof.

In the name of evolution, millions of unborn children have been murdered because "evolutionary thinking" deemed them "not human", eugenics are promoted because those who "don't have a good quality of life" should be killed according to survival of the fittest, and the list goes on...

The reason there are disputes over Bible translations is because there is a thing called moral absolutes. In other words, it is worth fighting for the truth. If there was no truth then there would be nothing to dispute over, everything would be correct. You obviously believe there is a right and a wrong or you wouldn't be posting on these forums.

What religion on this earth has consistently TREATED all men equally?
That is why there is a secular government created here backed by the foundation of The Constitution.
Religion, Christianity included for hundreds of years, has a very poor record of treating man equally.
NO where in the law, The United States Constitution, is there any mention of any God or Supreme Being.
My religious beliefs are so strong I do not need one and particularly like the fact there isn't.
Adding God or a Supreme being would have been used to oppress someone that may not believe in God.
The Founders knew that as that is why there is NO religious test for public office clause in The Constitution.

1. "NO where in the law, The United States Constitution, is there any mention of any God or Supreme Being."
There is a specific reference to Jesus Christ in the Constitution.



2. I realize that you'd like to ignore the other founding document.....but I won't.

There are four references to ‘Divine’ in D of I…
1)in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’
2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,”
3) Supreme Judge of the world,
and 4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Divine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.

Wise up.



3. Nor should it be forgotten that the reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian.
“52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh

a. Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, “an extremist Fundementalist hate group.”


4. "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were... the general principles of Christianity. ...I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
- Letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813
John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, June 28th, 1813, from Quincy. The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The
Complete Correspondence Between Thomas Jefferson and Abigail and John Adams, edited by Lester J. Cappon,
1988, the University of North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC, pp. 338-340.



Perhaps you would be better served to read a bit more history.

 

[Gadawg73]

More importantly, our rights from a God who defines himself (and the founding Fathers defined him as) the "Creator". He created you and I and everyone else in the universe to be unique and special. Each one of us he created with a purpose.

If you remove the recognition that all men were "created" equal, then it turns into a question of where did the rights come from. If we evolved, then it is a matter of whoever is the fittest god of his/her own universe. The man with the bigger gun and the biggest ego will subject all those around him/her to their morals or lack thereof.

In the name of evolution, millions of unborn children have been murdered because "evolutionary thinking" deemed them "not human", eugenics are promoted because those who "don't have a good quality of life" should be killed according to survival of the fittest, and the list goes on...

The reason there are disputes over Bible translations is because there is a thing called moral absolutes. In other words, it is worth fighting for the truth. If there was no truth then there would be nothing to dispute over, everything would be correct. You obviously believe there is a right and a wrong or you wouldn't be posting on these forums.

What religion on this earth has consistently TREATED all men equally?
That is why there is a secular government created here backed by the foundation of The Constitution.
Religion, Christianity included for hundreds of years, has a very poor record of treating man equally.
NO where in the law, The United States Constitution, is there any mention of any God or Supreme Being.
My religious beliefs are so strong I do not need one and particularly like the fact there isn't.
Adding God or a Supreme being would have been used to oppress someone that may not believe in God.
The Founders knew that as that is why there is NO religious test for public office clause in The Constitution.

No there is no test for public office clause in the US Constitution because that was left up to the individual states, many of which DID originally have religious test clauses stating that one had to be a Christian (and in some cases Jew or Christian) to hold office. Note: I am not saying that this is good or bad. The Founding Fathers left the Constitution as basic and straight forward as possible so as to limit government the best they could in order to secure the freedoms of its citizens. To include religious stipulations would serve of little value while the absence does not prove that this country was not founded upon Christian principles. The Constitution neither requires nor forbids the practice of religion in public office.

The Founders also happened to write the Declaration of Independence which does indeed mention the "Creator". Moreover, the Mayflower compact states that the intent of their pilgrimage was for the "advancement of the Christian faith". And the first act of the very first President (along with the House and Senate) was to dedicate this nation to God. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story said, "I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law … There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations." The arguments by the Founders had nothing to do whether or not this nation should be Christian in nature, but rather how to allow freedom of worship for all denominations of the Christian faith as well as other religions.

The way the Founding Fathers saw it was that unless everyone in this nation was educated in and acting in accordance with Christian principles, the system on which this nation was found would not continue to function. Noah Webster remarked in the preface of his 1828 Dictionary, "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed … No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people."

That was not left to the individual states for ALL public offices in the Federal government.
There is NO religious test for Congress, Senate, President and any and all Federal bureaucratic job.
Something about The Constitution, a document you know little about and take for granted.
Noah Webster is not JACK SHIT on the Constitution either.

 

[Moonglow]

At the time this nation was founded what did the Founders have as their model in England and all other European states?
Monarchies where God and religion WERE the governments.
So what did the Founders see as a result of the monarchies, who ruled with iron fists under the power of divine right where God and God only ordained them as the masters over the common man?
A rise in the belief in the supernatural as over 100,000 people were burned at the stake for practicing "witchcraft", Enlightment thinkers which were influenced by the Reformation and scientific discoveries like Newton's discovery of the laws of gravity and Copernicus', Galileo and other scientists which resulted in state supported and backed by all the monarchies persecution based on religion.
As a result of that scenario across the pond the Founders structured a secular government with the United States Constitution as the foundation.
A document that does not mention God or a Supreme being anywhere in it.

And the age of "Reason" (or the "cult of reason") and the French Revolution proved how lousy the atheistic replacement of Christianity was.

The French revolution was about destroying the ancient regime and the centuries of abuse by those in power during that period of history, So it was not a change it was a revenge situation in Revolutionary France..(The Papacy has never shown any consideration for the sanctity of life when they were warring upon fellow Christians.).Christianity was never destroyed in France...only the people that ran the institutions and their privileged status in the ancient regime..Which the state church in France forced people to tithe, was nontaxable and abusive in nature to low caste citizens..

 

[Gadawg73]

More importantly, our rights from a God who defines himself (and the founding Fathers defined him as) the "Creator". He created you and I and everyone else in the universe to be unique and special. Each one of us he created with a purpose.

If you remove the recognition that all men were "created" equal, then it turns into a question of where did the rights come from. If we evolved, then it is a matter of whoever is the fittest god of his/her own universe. The man with the bigger gun and the biggest ego will subject all those around him/her to their morals or lack thereof.

In the name of evolution, millions of unborn children have been murdered because "evolutionary thinking" deemed them "not human", eugenics are promoted because those who "don't have a good quality of life" should be killed according to survival of the fittest, and the list goes on...

The reason there are disputes over Bible translations is because there is a thing called moral absolutes. In other words, it is worth fighting for the truth. If there was no truth then there would be nothing to dispute over, everything would be correct. You obviously believe there is a right and a wrong or you wouldn't be posting on these forums.

What religion on this earth has consistently TREATED all men equally?
That is why there is a secular government created here backed by the foundation of The Constitution.
Religion, Christianity included for hundreds of years, has a very poor record of treating man equally.
NO where in the law, The United States Constitution, is there any mention of any God or Supreme Being.
My religious beliefs are so strong I do not need one and particularly like the fact there isn't.
Adding God or a Supreme being would have been used to oppress someone that may not believe in God.
The Founders knew that as that is why there is NO religious test for public office clause in The Constitution.

1. "NO where in the law, The United States Constitution, is there any mention of any God or Supreme Being."
There is a specific reference to Jesus Christ in the Constitution.



2. I realize that you'd like to ignore the other founding document.....but I won't.

There are four references to ‘Divine’ in D of I…
1)in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’
2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,”
3) Supreme Judge of the world,
and 4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Divine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.

Wise up.



3. Nor should it be forgotten that the reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian.
“52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh

a. Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, “an extremist Fundementalist hate group.”


4. "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were... the general principles of Christianity. ...I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
- Letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813
John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, June 28th, 1813, from Quincy. The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The
Complete Correspondence Between Thomas Jefferson and Abigail and John Adams, edited by Lester J. Cappon,
1988, the University of North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC, pp. 338-340.



Perhaps you would be better served to read a bit more history.

Founding document is NOT the law.
Nothing you have posted disputes anything I posted.
We are a nation OF LAWS, not men and their various and changing like the wind religious beliefs.
You have no standing whatsoever in a court of law or anywhere else in this great nation with letters of the founders to each other.
Really, letters?
Wow, that is all the argument you are left with?
BTW, the Declaration of Independence is a declaration. NOT a law of any kind.
Furthermore, at the Continental Congress convened many of the Founders tried to interject God into the laws, tried to write into the law financial support to Christian schools and others.
A little history lesson for you PC:
There were 2 distinct groups at the Continental Congress writing the United States Constitution:
1. Those that wanted the new instrument of government to give faith a larger role
and
2. Those that FEARED it would do so.

The latter group, those that feared giving faith a larger role written into The Constitution were worried that The Constitution did not prohibit the kind of state sponsored religion that had flourished in the colonies and exerted pressure on the members of the first Federal Congress. As a result of those religious members of the first Federal Congress attempting to write state sponsored support of Christianity into the Constitution they took a vote on that and the result was"
The FIRST Amendment to The United States Constitution adopted 1789 and ratified by THE STATES December 1791:
"Congress shall make no law RESPECTING an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....."
So let us look at what happened when the general population first looked at The Constitution:
Most Americans were very upset with the fact that NO where in the document was there any mention of God, that God had been slighted and that the very fact there was no recognition of God anywhere to be found in the Constitution was a bad stray from what had been practiced in many of the colonies BEFORE the Constitution was written. Religious Americans, the ones that were left as 100,000 + Torries that got their ass kicked supporting God and the divine right he bestowed to the common man by God that had left the country to Canada and back to England, wanted to keep it the way it had always been with religious institutions having a large influence on colonial government.
The God team got their asses kicked at the Continental Congress.
And that mentality stands to this day with many that have no understanding of the original intent of the Founders.
God, religion and the spaghetti monster have no place IN THE LAW of this great nation.
Get used to it, the Founders were smart men. What they wrote in letters and in the DOI has NO STANDING in THE LAW.

 

[THE LIGHT]

What religion on this earth has consistently TREATED all men equally?
That is why there is a secular government created here backed by the foundation of The Constitution.
Religion, Christianity included for hundreds of years, has a very poor record of treating man equally.
NO where in the law, The United States Constitution, is there any mention of any God or Supreme Being.
My religious beliefs are so strong I do not need one and particularly like the fact there isn't.
Adding God or a Supreme being would have been used to oppress someone that may not believe in God.
The Founders knew that as that is why there is NO religious test for public office clause in The Constitution.

No there is no test for public office clause in the US Constitution because that was left up to the individual states, many of which DID originally have religious test clauses stating that one had to be a Christian (and in some cases Jew or Christian) to hold office. Note: I am not saying that this is good or bad. The Founding Fathers left the Constitution as basic and straight forward as possible so as to limit government the best they could in order to secure the freedoms of its citizens. To include religious stipulations would serve of little value while the absence does not prove that this country was not founded upon Christian principles. The Constitution neither requires nor forbids the practice of religion in public office.

The Founders also happened to write the Declaration of Independence which does indeed mention the "Creator". Moreover, the Mayflower compact states that the intent of their pilgrimage was for the "advancement of the Christian faith". And the first act of the very first President (along with the House and Senate) was to dedicate this nation to God. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story said, "I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law … There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations." The arguments by the Founders had nothing to do whether or not this nation should be Christian in nature, but rather how to allow freedom of worship for all denominations of the Christian faith as well as other religions.

The way the Founding Fathers saw it was that unless everyone in this nation was educated in and acting in accordance with Christian principles, the system on which this nation was found would not continue to function. Noah Webster remarked in the preface of his 1828 Dictionary, "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed … No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people."

That was not left to the individual states for ALL public offices in the Federal government.
There is NO religious test for Congress, Senate, President and any and all Federal bureaucratic job.
Something about The Constitution, a document you know little about and take for granted.
Noah Webster is not JACK SHIT on the Constitution either.

Are you saying that a Supreme Court Justice knows nothing about the Constitution?

 

[Gadawg73]

No there is no test for public office clause in the US Constitution because that was left up to the individual states, many of which DID originally have religious test clauses stating that one had to be a Christian (and in some cases Jew or Christian) to hold office. Note: I am not saying that this is good or bad. The Founding Fathers left the Constitution as basic and straight forward as possible so as to limit government the best they could in order to secure the freedoms of its citizens. To include religious stipulations would serve of little value while the absence does not prove that this country was not founded upon Christian principles. The Constitution neither requires nor forbids the practice of religion in public office.

The Founders also happened to write the Declaration of Independence which does indeed mention the "Creator". Moreover, the Mayflower compact states that the intent of their pilgrimage was for the "advancement of the Christian faith". And the first act of the very first President (along with the House and Senate) was to dedicate this nation to God. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story said, "I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law … There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations." The arguments by the Founders had nothing to do whether or not this nation should be Christian in nature, but rather how to allow freedom of worship for all denominations of the Christian faith as well as other religions.

The way the Founding Fathers saw it was that unless everyone in this nation was educated in and acting in accordance with Christian principles, the system on which this nation was found would not continue to function. Noah Webster remarked in the preface of his 1828 Dictionary, "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed … No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people."

That was not left to the individual states for ALL public offices in the Federal government.
There is NO religious test for Congress, Senate, President and any and all Federal bureaucratic job.
Something about The Constitution, a document you know little about and take for granted.
Noah Webster is not JACK SHIT on the Constitution either.

Are you saying that a Supreme Court Justice knows nothing about the Constitution?

If you did not know that Noah Webster preached, wrote about and always spoke of how he wanted to Christianize the entire nation I will give you a pass.
But he did and he wanted GOVERNMENT to do it.
And the Founders beat him and his troops back and defeated them.
Easily.
Webster advocated for government to enact social controls over citizens. Submission to authority and Fear of God were his main themes.
If you need that in your life Moe go for it. If anyone tells me anything close to that I tell them first to mind their own business and if they go further I tell them to FUCK THEMSELVES.
After all, I am still 6'5" and 285 lbs.

 

[Gadawg73]

I do admire Webster for his strong anti slavery convictions as my ancestors were Quakers from NY. One has only to Google "Friends Meeting Clintondale NY" and see the list of many of my relatives.

 

[Gadawg73]

No there is no test for public office clause in the US Constitution because that was left up to the individual states, many of which DID originally have religious test clauses stating that one had to be a Christian (and in some cases Jew or Christian) to hold office. Note: I am not saying that this is good or bad. The Founding Fathers left the Constitution as basic and straight forward as possible so as to limit government the best they could in order to secure the freedoms of its citizens. To include religious stipulations would serve of little value while the absence does not prove that this country was not founded upon Christian principles. The Constitution neither requires nor forbids the practice of religion in public office.

The Founders also happened to write the Declaration of Independence which does indeed mention the "Creator". Moreover, the Mayflower compact states that the intent of their pilgrimage was for the "advancement of the Christian faith". And the first act of the very first President (along with the House and Senate) was to dedicate this nation to God. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story said, "I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law … There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations." The arguments by the Founders had nothing to do whether or not this nation should be Christian in nature, but rather how to allow freedom of worship for all denominations of the Christian faith as well as other religions.

The way the Founding Fathers saw it was that unless everyone in this nation was educated in and acting in accordance with Christian principles, the system on which this nation was found would not continue to function. Noah Webster remarked in the preface of his 1828 Dictionary, "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed … No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people."

That was not left to the individual states for ALL public offices in the Federal government.
There is NO religious test for Congress, Senate, President and any and all Federal bureaucratic job.
Something about The Constitution, a document you know little about and take for granted.
Noah Webster is not JACK SHIT on the Constitution either.

Are you saying that a Supreme Court Justice knows nothing about the Constitution?

Where does he say God is in the Constitution?

 

[PoliticalChic]

That was not left to the individual states for ALL public offices in the Federal government.
There is NO religious test for Congress, Senate, President and any and all Federal bureaucratic job.
Something about The Constitution, a document you know little about and take for granted.
Noah Webster is not JACK SHIT on the Constitution either.

Are you saying that a Supreme Court Justice knows nothing about the Constitution?

Where does he say God is in the Constitution?

Jesus Christ is referenced at the end of article VII

 

[Gadawg73]

Are you saying that a Supreme Court Justice knows nothing about the Constitution?

Where does he say God is in the Constitution?

Jesus Christ is referenced at the end of article VII

LOL, all meetings at the Continental Congress were ended with "in the year of our Lord".
That was the UNIVERSAL dating system taken from the English.
Atheists use the date today as July 24, 2014.
So since we still use the same dating system you believe atheists wanted God in government.
You have nothing and you know it.
But let us say that the Founders DID want to give Christianity a favored status in the Constitution and the LAW of this great nation.
Instead of making Christianity the religion of the nation and funding Christian schools with public $$$ like many at the Continental Congress lobbied for, no, they decided to go with "in the year of our Lord" wording instead, an obscure method coming at the end of document.
Please, only the ignorant offer that opinion.
What amazes me is you are clueless that the The United States Constitution was designed solely to ensure the SOVEREIGNTY of THE PEOPLE and NOT any religious figure.
Wow, really incredible you do not know that.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Where does he say God is in the Constitution?

Jesus Christ is referenced at the end of article VII

LOL, all meetings at the Continental Congress were ended with "in the year of our Lord".
That was the UNIVERSAL dating system taken from the English.
Atheists use the date today as July 24, 2014.
So since we still use the same dating system you believe atheists wanted God in government.
You have nothing and you know it.
But let us say that the Founders DID want to give Christianity a favored status in the Constitution and the LAW of this great nation.
Instead of making Christianity the religion of the nation and funding Christian schools with public $$$ like many at the Continental Congress lobbied for, no, they decided to go with "in the year of our Lord" wording instead, an obscure method coming at the end of document.
Please, only the ignorant offer that opinion.
What amazes me is you are clueless that the The United States Constitution was designed solely to ensure the SOVEREIGNTY of THE PEOPLE and NOT any religious figure.
Wow, really incredible you do not know that.

I didn't ask for your spin, your little tap dance.....

I simply pointed out a fact: article VII ends with a reference to Jesus Christ.


Is that found in the location I stated?

It certainly is.

Do you have a different explanation as to whom it refers?



Of course you don't.





Dismissed.

 

[Gadawg73]

Jesus Christ is referenced at the end of article VII

LOL, all meetings at the Continental Congress were ended with "in the year of our Lord".
That was the UNIVERSAL dating system taken from the English.
Atheists use the date today as July 24, 2014.
So since we still use the same dating system you believe atheists wanted God in government.
You have nothing and you know it.
But let us say that the Founders DID want to give Christianity a favored status in the Constitution and the LAW of this great nation.
Instead of making Christianity the religion of the nation and funding Christian schools with public $$$ like many at the Continental Congress lobbied for, no, they decided to go with "in the year of our Lord" wording instead, an obscure method coming at the end of document.
Please, only the ignorant offer that opinion.
What amazes me is you are clueless that the The United States Constitution was designed solely to ensure the SOVEREIGNTY of THE PEOPLE and NOT any religious figure.
Wow, really incredible you do not know that.

I didn't ask for your spin, your little tap dance.....

I simply pointed out a fact: article VII ends with a reference to Jesus Christ.


Is that found in the location I stated?

It certainly is.

Do you have a different explanation as to whom it refers?



Of course you don't.





Dismissed.

It references THE DATE.
What happened to a curtsy? I liked that more better.

 

[kjw47]

Any can claim to be Christian--actions prove it-- Jesus taught pay caesers things to caeser--taxes-- one has to throw this truth away to start a war against caeser for taxes. Not a Christian action. and as history goes on it gets worse.

 

[Chuckt]

Any can claim to be Christian--actions prove it-- Jesus taught pay caesers things to caeser--taxes-- one has to throw this truth away to start a war against caeser for taxes. Not a Christian action. and as history goes on it gets worse.

Actions can't prove it because anyone can be an actor. Some people don't believe like Jehovah Witnesses as it is only an exercise.

 

[hobelim]

Any can claim to be Christian--actions prove it-- Jesus taught pay caesers things to caeser--taxes-- one has to throw this truth away to start a war against caeser for taxes. Not a Christian action. and as history goes on it gets worse.

Jesus did not necessarily teach to pay taxes by saying 'render unto Caesar the the things of Caesar and render unto God the things of God'.

To a non Jew it would have seemed like Jesus was advocating paying taxes to Caesar but to a Jew who understood that everything belongs to God and nothing belongs to Caesar, a man who falsely claimed to be a god, it would have seemed like Jesus was saying the exact opposite, give Caesar nothing.

 

[kjw47]

Any can claim to be Christian--actions prove it-- Jesus taught pay caesers things to caeser--taxes-- one has to throw this truth away to start a war against caeser for taxes. Not a Christian action. and as history goes on it gets worse.

Jesus did not necessarily teach to pay taxes by saying 'render unto Caesar the the things of Caesar and render unto God the things of God'.

To a non Jew it would have seemed like Jesus was advocating paying taxes to Caesar but to a Jew who understood that everything belongs to God and nothing belongs to Caesar, a man who falsely claimed to be a god, it would have seemed like Jesus was saying the exact opposite, give Caesar nothing.

Jesus sent them to go get a fish and a coin fell out of its mouth --for taxes--it was the reason Jesus said that.