The 2009 Baseball Season Thread

[Andrew2382]

The Yankees have had NO pitching the last few years and all hitting. Thats the reason they haven't won the world series. But at least they have always either been in the playoffs or had a chance because of their great hitting. If they would have gotten better playoff pitching performances from their mediocre staff, they could have won a world series with offense alone.

Yankees had no pitching? Are you out of your mind? Yanks have always had pitching unfortunately when it came to playoff time it wasn't as good as the rest.

Mussina, Wang (lets not forget that wang b4 his injury was a consistent 19+ game winner each year), they ahd the bust known as Randy Johnson, Andy Petite, Clemens, Wells, and MO...The problem is alot of the pitchers were past their prime and couldn't pitch in a dominant American League....please do not even try to dispute that the American League dominates the NL in almost all aspects. When it came to play off times they were all tired or got outpitched

It is not great pitching that wins championships. Usually winners have great pitching. But what is a 100% fact is that you must OUTSCORE your oponnent to win. If the other team scores 1 run and you score 0, you lose. What is ignored most often is that these great pitching championship teams also had at least a solid respectable offense behind them. The Giants are still not quite there yet. That's why they need a bat more than an arm.

Man, the giants leave New York and apparently all baseball common sense don't follow them to the city of San Fran. What good is having 1-9 hitters who hit 60 homeruns a year when you have someone throwing on the mound they can't hit???? Remember as good as a 350 average is...he still makes out 70% of the time and thats against all pitching inlcuding mediocre. What good is Manny gonna do if Beckett is throwing a shutout or has only given up 1 run? It's ez to manufacture a run in baseball, so you can win those 1-0, 2-1 games because the pitching has been and always will be dominant.

Look at the last dynasty in baseball...yankees 96-00...4 out of the 5 years they won and won in convincing fashion...7 games in 96, swept the 98 series, swept the 99 series, and won in 5 in 2000.

Their pitching abused everybody...Petite, Wells, Clemens, Cone, Mo, Wettland, etc.. They didn't have any all star hitters on those teams? Is tino going to the hall? NO, Bernie? NO. ? Paul O'Neil? NO...

I'm only talking about value for one seasons production. Not considering aging.

thats retarded, you have to look at the big picture, you said u would trade them str8...you hurt your team in the long run for a guy first of all in Manny, who is a total scumbag and piece of shit and only plays when he feels like it. Bad GM skills by you.

First that's not a very wise assumption. If the teams facing the Giants had the same view as you and underestimated them they would get boatraced. Zito has thrived since the All-Star break, following a pattern he established years ago. He's 3-1 with a 2.32 ERA in five second-half starts. Jonathan Sanchez has contined to be a solid starter since his no-hitter, which he has shown he is nearly unhittable when he has his command. That's hardly the "nothing" you talk about. Also consider that in a 5 game series you would see Lincecum, Cain, Zito, Lincecum, Cain. I take the Giants in a series like that over ANY team.

ZITO GOT LIT UP IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE....Hitters know hit him here, he was here for 8 years or so.

and also, you are totally contradicting yourself because you are saying you would take the giants over any team with that staff yet you just admitted you need hittign and hitting wins championships...make up your mind please?

You talk about AJ and CC and how great American League pitching is. Did it ever occur to you that they were both National League pitchers that came over to the AL? Or did it ever occur to you that AL Pitchers have to face an extra hitter every game instead of the pitcher? That's why AL pitchers have higher era's.

Umm thats my point maybe? Because of the DH there is no ez 9th man put it in the bag out? How would Lincecum hold up where instead of the pitcher he is facing Melky Cabrera or someone like that...totally changes the dynamic of the game...hence you usally add a run in the transition to NL- AL. If AJ went back to the NL he would have an era in the 2's...CC had an ERA in the 2's with the brewers...in fact he dominated the NL

The leagues are equal when they face each other. All Star games don't even count. Cain and Lincecum are a better pair than either of those pairs you mentioned. Where the giants would need to show up is in the ability to score a few more runs. I blame Bruce Bochy for his lack of offensive managing skill on that one.

The leagues are not equal...not even close....the American League has DOMINATED INTERLEAGUE PLAY...IN 2009 THE AL went 137-114 in Interleague play.In 2008 the AL went 149 - 102 in interleague play

ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE

 

[Andrew2382]

Andrew is parttly correct Torre does not do well with bullpens, he wears them out through over use.

He's wrong in saying he's a good manager.

He's a good PR guy and good with players.

He sucks with on the field decision making, he won 4 with NY because Don Zimmer was making those calls.

They fired Zim after 2001, and Torre never won again, and NY suddenly didn't look sharp and smart anymore, they became an all or nothing power club.

Clueless Joe blows as a manager, the dodgers will never win a championship with him.

Just ask the Cards, Braves and Mets if they think Torre is such a genius.

I agree Xen, the reason I said he is a good manager is because of his ability to keep the clubhouse together with all the major talent on it like the Yanks did. It's difficult to keep all the ego's at the door and he handled NY media like no other.

Baseball managers are a funny thing...they lose you more games then they win you...But hs on field decision making is pretty bad...I agree 100% and his bullpen management is even worse

 

[Xenophon]

I agree Xen, the reason I said he is a good manager is because of his ability to keep the clubhouse together with all the major talent on it like the Yanks did. It's difficult to keep all the ego's at the door and he handled NY media like no other.

Baseball managers are a funny thing...they lose you more games then they win you...But hs on field decision making is pretty bad...I agree 100% and his bullpen management is even worse

Torre always tried to claim he was the show, when NY lost he had excuses, when they won it was his great managing.

Kay used to hammer Torre on this all the time.

So many relievers bitched about Torre, Mariano told Mike & the mad dog last year he would have left NY if they kept Torre, and Mussina told them Torre nearly ruined his career by making him pitch hurt.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Yankees had no pitching? Are you out of your mind? Yanks have always had pitching unfortunately when it came to playoff time it wasn't as good as the rest.

They had enough mediocre pitching to get by and let the offense carry them through the regular season. It also depends on which season you are talking about. There were lots of different pitchers in different years for the Yankers. Let's be clear before you say they had great pitching from 98 until now. there's been some sparse years since 01. Sure some big names, but like you said, not big performances pitching wise.

Mussina, Wang (lets not forget that wang b4 his injury was a consistent 19+ game winner each year), they ahd the bust known as Randy Johnson, Andy Petite, Clemens, Wells, and MO...

The best era Wang has EVER done is 3.63 in his best year. His career era is a less than stellar 4.16.
Mussina was great with Baltimore but never quite the same with the Yankees. The offense helped him out. Last year he had a blip with a great season. The only time he's EVER won 20 games and the best season of his career. Certainly the best since 1995. With that offense he should have had at least one more 20 win season. His career Yankees era is about 4. Not Ace material.
This proves their starting pitching has been decent but it's the unbelievable offense that carried them. C'mon don't let the New York smog cloud your judgment.

The problem is alot of the pitchers were past their prime and couldn't pitch in a dominant American League....please do not even try to dispute that the American League dominates the NL in almost all aspects. When it came to play off times they were all tired or got outpitched

It's little more than an aberation when you are talking about the AL beating the NL in All Star games. Just look at the numbers. It's pretty even. Baseball has a way of evening things out. You can't show me any stats that are convincing of AL superiority when AL Players and NL players are constantly switching leagues. Baloney!

Man, the giants leave New York and apparently all baseball common sense don't follow them to the city of San Fran. What good is having 1-9 hitters who hit 60 homeruns a year when you have someone throwing on the mound they can't hit???? Remember as good as a 350 average is...he still makes out 70% of the time and thats against all pitching inlcuding mediocre. What good is Manny gonna do if Beckett is throwing a shutout or has only given up 1 run? It's ez to manufacture a run in baseball, so you can win those 1-0, 2-1 games because the pitching has been and always will be dominant.

Your logic only makes sense in a 1 game situation. If you had a starting rotation with 5 Becketts then you don't need much hitting. but in the real world, staffs have 3 front line starters at the most. That's where offense is best. It gets you to the playoffs. but in the playoffs only the best pitchers on the staff pitch. You won't see the 4th and 5th starters pitching so much.

The truth is you need both. And what I'm saying is the GIANTS can give up some pitching to balance out their anemic offense. Balance is what wins it all more than just one aspect.

Look at the last dynasty in baseball...yankees 96-00...4 out of the 5 years they won and won in convincing fashion...7 games in 96, swept the 98 series, swept the 99 series, and won in 5 in 2000.

Their pitching abused everybody...Petite, Wells, Clemens, Cone, Mo, Wettland, etc.. They didn't have any all star hitters on those teams? Is tino going to the hall? NO, Bernie? NO. ? Paul O'Neil? NO...

Those teams had balance. Incredible hitting and pitching. By the way, you don't have to have hall of famers in the lineup to have a great offense. You guys had Scott Brosius 19 homers 98 rbi, .300 avg, Jorge Posada 17 homers, Derek Jeter, .324 avg, 19 homers, 84 rbi, Tino Martinez 28 bombs, 124 rbi, O'Neill with 24 hr, 116 rbi, .317 avg, Chuck Knoblauch 17 hrs, Homer Bush .380 avg through 45 games, Shane Spencer .373 and 10 hrs in just 27 games, Even Darryl Strawberry 24 hrs!

That's plenty of offense to go with a great pitching staff.

thats retarded, you have to look at the big picture, you said u would trade them str8...you hurt your team in the long run for a guy first of all in Manny, who is a total scumbag and piece of shit and only plays when he feels like it. Bad GM skills by you.

Ok fine, a Matt Cain on the upswing is better than a Manny in his decline. Who cares about players being good people any more. We know they are mostly scumbags anyway. I'm talking about pound for pound talent for talent. I would take Manny on the upswing over any pitcher except a guy like Nolan Ryan or Christy Mathewson.

but I would Take Barry Bonds or Babe Ruth over any pitcher at any time. Get my point.

ZITO GOT LIT UP IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE....Hitters know hit him here, he was here for 8 years or so.

Now theres a retarded statement. He didn't start getting lit up until he came to the National League. Even Cricket fans know that. He had one mediocre year in 2004 where he was 11-11 with a 4.4 era. every other year in the AL his ERA was under 3.85. Check your stats dude.

and also, you are totally contradicting yourself because you are saying you would take the giants over any team with that staff yet you just admitted you need hittign and hitting wins championships...make up your mind please?

No I didn't say hitting wins championships. I said outscoring your opponent. There is a difference. Outscoring is not out-hitting. It connotes balance. The pitching keeps the other team from scoring 5 runs and the offense scores at least 5. They are both needed. Right now the Giants lack balance. The scales are tipped heavily on pitching with not enough weight on the other side of the scale. Capeesh?

Umm thats my point maybe? Because of the DH there is no ez 9th man put it in the bag out? How would Lincecum hold up where instead of the pitcher he is facing Melky Cabrera or someone like that...totally changes the dynamic of the game...hence you usally add a run in the transition to NL- AL. If AJ went back to the NL he would have an era in the 2's...CC had an ERA in the 2's with the brewers...in fact he dominated the NL

How much do you think the Yankees would throw at little Timmy free agent right now? 150 million? That would be in a down economy as well. You would change your tune if you could stay up late enough to watch this kid pitch in pinstripes. The Boss Jr. would break even the Yankees bank to pick up this National Leaguer if he were available and surely doesn't think AL hitters wouldn't get carved up just the same. Just like CC and AJ TT would be just the same.

The leagues are not equal...not even close....the American League has DOMINATED INTERLEAGUE PLAY...IN 2009 THE AL went 137-114 in Interleague play.In 2008 the AL went 149 - 102 in interleague play

You're talking about 2 years, and you're also talking about almost 300 games. It doesn't show superiority of the league it's a just so happens this year type of thing. The balance could just as easily shift next year. Just an abberation since the world series always seems to be a toss up.

 

[Andrew2382]

They had enough mediocre pitching to get by and let the offense carry them through the regular season. It also depends on which season you are talking about. There were lots of different pitchers in different years for the Yankers. Let's be clear before you say they had great pitching from 98 until now. there's been some sparse years since 01. Sure some big names, but like you said, not big performances pitching wise.

first of all, lets get something str8...if you have hold an era in the 3's in the American league...you are doing a damn fine job.

2002- Moose 4.05 era 18 wins
Wells 3.75 era 19 wins
Clemens 4.35ERA 13 Wins
Petite 3.27 ERA 13 wins
Orlando hernandez 3.64 era

very good pitching staff....and the big bad power bats they had in 02 went dead against good pitching...first round exit to the angels.

2003- same as above except u add weaver which had the highest era of almost 6....lost in the world series to the marlins? WHY? Because they couldnt hit pavano, beckett, and penny.

The same goes on for the remaining years...Yankees have had good pitching, they have been top 3 in the league for runs scored all of these years...yet no run.

According to your theory, since they are top 3 in scoring the most runs in the league they should have been going farther...but they would get stopped when they face good pitching..BASEBALL 101 PITCHING WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Best example...why did the dimanondbacks win the 01 series? SCHILLING AND JOHNSON...THATS IT. Sure mo blew the game, but the main reason they were in the situation is because Schill and RJ shut the yanks superior offense down.

The best era Wang has EVER done is 3.63 in his best year. His career era is a less than stellar 4.16.
Mussina was great with Baltimore but never quite the same with the Yankees. The offense helped him out. Last year he had a blip with a great season. The only time he's EVER won 20 games and the best season of his career. Certainly the best since 1995. With that offense he should have had at least one more 20 win season. His career Yankees era is about 4. Not Ace material.
This proves their starting pitching has been decent but it's the unbelievable offense that carried them. C'mon don't let the New York smog cloud your judgment.

lol. 3.63 in the American league for a sinkerball pitcher is the BEST YOU WILL GET. Career era? he's been the league for 5 years and the first year it was in the 4's and the following 2 19 win seasons it was in the low to mid 3's! Then he got hurt the next season and he hasnt been the same...His era is inflated cause its up to 9 this year. Start making sense please...and he won 19 games 2 years in a row! it wasn't a blip,please know what you are talking about.

Wang was also 8-2 when he hurt himself and lost the rest of the season..safe to say he was on his way to a 20 win season yet again....then he hasn't been the same since his injury.

Also, on Mussina...he did a fine job with the Yankees...ERA with the Yanks was 4.40 mostly because of one bad season he had in 07 with a 5.15 era...all the other seasons he consitently won 15+ games and had era's that fluctuated from 3.30-4.40...more then adequate and many teams would kill for that type of production.

Their offense has carried them...but the Yanks also had pitching through the seasons...and the best closer in baseball.

It's little more than an aberation when you are talking about the AL beating the NL in All Star games. Just look at the numbers. It's pretty even. Baseball has a way of evening things out. You can't show me any stats that are convincing of AL superiority when AL Players and NL players are constantly switching leagues. Baloney!

lol the AL has dominated interleague play every year for the past 5 years...but i guess thats because the leagues are even?????

Your logic only makes sense in a 1 game situation. If you had a starting rotation with 5 Becketts then you don't need much hitting. but in the real world, staffs have 3 front line starters at the most. That's where offense is best. It gets you to the playoffs. but in the playoffs only the best pitchers on the staff pitch. You won't see the 4th and 5th starters pitching so much.

The truth is you need both. And what I'm saying is the GIANTS can give up some pitching to balance out their anemic offense. Balance is what wins it all more than just one aspect.

Exactly my point...thats why if you had 2 ace pitchers...your chances of winning a series triples! I would take 2 ace pitchers that I know can shut a team down over 3 guys in the lineups who can hit 50 homeruns. Anyone with any sort of baseball intelligence would agree. What good is beating up on the 3rd starter if you are just going to see the #1 guy again on game 4?

Those teams had balance. Incredible hitting and pitching. By the way, you don't have to have hall of famers in the lineup to have a great offense. You guys had Scott Brosius 19 homers 98 rbi, .300 avg, Jorge Posada 17 homers, Derek Jeter, .324 avg, 19 homers, 84 rbi, Tino Martinez 28 bombs, 124 rbi, O'Neill with 24 hr, 116 rbi, .317 avg, Chuck Knoblauch 17 hrs, Homer Bush .380 avg through 45 games, Shane Spencer .373 and 10 hrs in just 27 games, Even Darryl Strawberry 24 hrs!

you are also nitpicking the Yankee team that is talked about as one of the greatest teams ever...they went 125-50 in the season...go look at 96...how did we win the 96 series against the braves?

The braves shelled us the first 2 games...then we got superb pitching performances by david cone, pettite in a 1-0 victory and Jimmy Key...PITCHING!!!!! All the other seasons was all about getting the ball to Mariano...it was a 7 inning game between Nelson, mendoza, stanton and mo it was a 7 inning game...no one would hit them in the playoffs.

Ok fine, a Matt Cain on the upswing is better than a Manny in his decline. Who cares about players being good people any more. We know they are mostly scumbags anyway. I'm talking about pound for pound talent for talent. I would take Manny on the upswing over any pitcher except a guy like Nolan Ryan or Christy Mathewson.

but I would Take Barry Bonds or Babe Ruth over any pitcher at any time. Get my point.

and that is why you would fail as a GM. Yes, you need both...however you will get farther with a mediocre offense and a Grade A pitching staff then you would with a all star offense and a mediocre pitching staff.

Now theres a retarded statement. He didn't start getting lit up until he came to the National League. Even Cricket fans know that. He had one mediocre year in 2004 where he was 11-11 with a 4.4 era. every other year in the AL his ERA was under 3.85. Check your stats dude.

So then your defense is that he will fair better now since his era has gone up nearly a full run in a weaker hitting National League? Whats gonna happen to Zito when faces heavy offenses like the Yanks, Angels, Rangers, Rays, Sox, Tigers etc..

No I didn't say hitting wins championships. I said outscoring your opponent. There is a difference. Outscoring is not out-hitting. It connotes balance. The pitching keeps the other team from scoring 5 runs and the offense scores at least 5. They are both needed. Right now the Giants lack balance. The scales are tipped heavily on pitching with not enough weight on the other side of the scale. Capeesh?

BUT YOU DON'T MAKE THE RIDICULOSULY STUPID TRADE OF CAIN FOR MANNY LIKE YOU SAID YOU DO IN A HEARTBEAT. Cause then you tip the balance and now you have shit for pitching. You don't go anywhere with 1 stud...

How much do you think the Yankees would throw at little Timmy free agent right now? 150 million? That would be in a down economy as well. You would change your tune if you could stay up late enough to watch this kid pitch in pinstripes. The Boss Jr. would break even the Yankees bank to pick up this National Leaguer if he were available and surely doesn't think AL hitters wouldn't get carved up just the same. Just like CC and AJ TT would be just the same.

what the hell are you talking about? Just because they pitch in the NL doesn't make the pitcher inferior...the league in general is inferior. I bet my left nut that Timmy doesn't have an era under 3 in the AL EAST....He has an era in the low to mid 3's which is what would be expected from him and that would make him a stud! Look at CC and AJ...they are both considered ace materials right now and their era's are in the 3.60 area....YOU DON'T SEE MANY AL PITCHERS WITH ERA'S IN THE 2'S...It happens but its rare

You're talking about 2 years, and you're also talking about almost 300 games. It doesn't show superiority of the league it's a just so happens this year type of thing. The balance could just as easily shift next year. Just an abberation since the world series always seems to be a toss up.

lol should we go back more?
Ok i showed u 08 and 09

2009- AL WINS 137-114
2008- AL WINS 149-108
2007- AL WINS 137-115
2006- AL WINS- 154-98
2005- AL WINS- 136-116

Total- AL WINS 713- 551

1264 TOTAL GAMES OVER 5 YEARS

AND AL has wont he all star game every year which really doesn't mean much to me but you can throw that in the fire?

if 162 games over 500 isn't enough to show you how dominant the AL is over the NL then you are hopeless.

World Series doesn't show who the better league is...anything can happen in a short series...any baseball fan knows that. Put the Yankees in the NL somewhere and they win 115 games in a season

 

[Truthspeaker]

They had enough mediocre pitching to get by and let the offense carry them through the regular season. It also depends on which season you are talking about. There were lots of different pitchers in different years for the Yankers. Let's be clear before you say they had great pitching from 98 until now. there's been some sparse years since 01. Sure some big names, but like you said, not big performances pitching wise.

first of all, lets get something str8...if you have hold an era in the 3's in the American league...you are doing a damn fine job.

2002- Moose 4.05 era 18 wins
Wells 3.75 era 19 wins
Clemens 4.35ERA 13 Wins
Petite 3.27 ERA 13 wins
Orlando hernandez 3.64 era

very good pitching staff....and the big bad power bats they had in 02 went dead against good pitching...first round exit to the angels.

2003- same as above except u add weaver which had the highest era of almost 6....lost in the world series to the marlins? WHY? Because they couldnt hit pavano, beckett, and penny.

The same goes on for the remaining years...Yankees have had good pitching, they have been top 3 in the league for runs scored all of these years...yet no run.

According to your theory, since they are top 3 in scoring the most runs in the league they should have been going farther...but they would get stopped when they face good pitching..BASEBALL 101 PITCHING WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Best example...why did the dimanondbacks win the 01 series? SCHILLING AND JOHNSON...THATS IT. Sure mo blew the game, but the main reason they were in the situation is because Schill and RJ shut the yanks superior offense down.

The best era Wang has EVER done is 3.63 in his best year. His career era is a less than stellar 4.16.
Mussina was great with Baltimore but never quite the same with the Yankees. The offense helped him out. Last year he had a blip with a great season. The only time he's EVER won 20 games and the best season of his career. Certainly the best since 1995. With that offense he should have had at least one more 20 win season. His career Yankees era is about 4. Not Ace material.
This proves their starting pitching has been decent but it's the unbelievable offense that carried them. C'mon don't let the New York smog cloud your judgment.

lol. 3.63 in the American league for a sinkerball pitcher is the BEST YOU WILL GET. Career era? he's been the league for 5 years and the first year it was in the 4's and the following 2 19 win seasons it was in the low to mid 3's! Then he got hurt the next season and he hasnt been the same...His era is inflated cause its up to 9 this year. Start making sense please...and he won 19 games 2 years in a row! it wasn't a blip,please know what you are talking about.

Wang was also 8-2 when he hurt himself and lost the rest of the season..safe to say he was on his way to a 20 win season yet again....then he hasn't been the same since his injury.

Also, on Mussina...he did a fine job with the Yankees...ERA with the Yanks was 4.40 mostly because of one bad season he had in 07 with a 5.15 era...all the other seasons he consitently won 15+ games and had era's that fluctuated from 3.30-4.40...more then adequate and many teams would kill for that type of production.

Their offense has carried them...but the Yanks also had pitching through the seasons...and the best closer in baseball.



lol the AL has dominated interleague play every year for the past 5 years...but i guess thats because the leagues are even?????




Exactly my point...thats why if you had 2 ace pitchers...your chances of winning a series triples! I would take 2 ace pitchers that I know can shut a team down over 3 guys in the lineups who can hit 50 homeruns. Anyone with any sort of baseball intelligence would agree. What good is beating up on the 3rd starter if you are just going to see the #1 guy again on game 4?





you are also nitpicking the Yankee team that is talked about as one of the greatest teams ever...they went 125-50 in the season...go look at 96...how did we win the 96 series against the braves?

The braves shelled us the first 2 games...then we got superb pitching performances by david cone, pettite in a 1-0 victory and Jimmy Key...PITCHING!!!!! All the other seasons was all about getting the ball to Mariano...it was a 7 inning game between Nelson, mendoza, stanton and mo it was a 7 inning game...no one would hit them in the playoffs.



and that is why you would fail as a GM. Yes, you need both...however you will get farther with a mediocre offense and a Grade A pitching staff then you would with a all star offense and a mediocre pitching staff.




So then your defense is that he will fair better now since his era has gone up nearly a full run in a weaker hitting National League? Whats gonna happen to Zito when faces heavy offenses like the Yanks, Angels, Rangers, Rays, Sox, Tigers etc..



BUT YOU DON'T MAKE THE RIDICULOSULY STUPID TRADE OF CAIN FOR MANNY LIKE YOU SAID YOU DO IN A HEARTBEAT. Cause then you tip the balance and now you have shit for pitching. You don't go anywhere with 1 stud...

How much do you think the Yankees would throw at little Timmy free agent right now? 150 million? That would be in a down economy as well. You would change your tune if you could stay up late enough to watch this kid pitch in pinstripes. The Boss Jr. would break even the Yankees bank to pick up this National Leaguer if he were available and surely doesn't think AL hitters wouldn't get carved up just the same. Just like CC and AJ TT would be just the same.

what the hell are you talking about? Just because they pitch in the NL doesn't make the pitcher inferior...the league in general is inferior. I bet my left nut that Timmy doesn't have an era under 3 in the AL EAST....He has an era in the low to mid 3's which is what would be expected from him and that would make him a stud! Look at CC and AJ...they are both considered ace materials right now and their era's are in the 3.60 area....YOU DON'T SEE MANY AL PITCHERS WITH ERA'S IN THE 2'S...It happens but its rare

You're talking about 2 years, and you're also talking about almost 300 games. It doesn't show superiority of the league it's a just so happens this year type of thing. The balance could just as easily shift next year. Just an abberation since the world series always seems to be a toss up.

lol should we go back more?
Ok i showed u 08 and 09

2009- AL WINS 137-114
2008- AL WINS 149-108
2007- AL WINS 137-115
2006- AL WINS- 154-98
2005- AL WINS- 136-116

Total- AL WINS 713- 551

1264 TOTAL GAMES OVER 5 YEARS

AND AL has wont he all star game every year which really doesn't mean much to me but you can throw that in the fire?

if 162 games over 500 isn't enough to show you how dominant the AL is over the NL then you are hopeless.

World Series doesn't show who the better league is...anything can happen in a short series...any baseball fan knows that. Put the Yankees in the NL somewhere and they win 115 games in a season

You must sleep in yankee underwear, pillow cases and bedsheets. Your whole house is probably a shrine to the team. Your bias is showing. You have shown me that the AL
has won 7 games and the NL 5 over the last 5 years. That's hardly dominating. Take any 5 year period in the history of baseball and you are going to find a 7-5 score between the two leages. It's a cyclical game, baseball. by the way you are still ignoring the balance. The old washington senators had a staff with 3 20 game winners back in 1930 but failed to make the playoffs because their run support was lowere than their team era. Team runs per game must be higher than team era. It's simple mathematics.

You act like I don't value pitching. All this time I've been talking about the Giants case. In their case they need a stud bat more than they need a stud arm. that is the exact reason why the Dodgers are ahead of them. Because their runs per game is so much higher than their team era. The Giants rpg is barely ahead of their era. if they got a big bat in their case it would widen the gap in between their rpg and era despite the loss of cain.


First you have to get to the playoffs before you can rely on your pitching. great Hitting has a stronger impact on getting TO the playoffs. Pitching has a stronger impact in the playoffs because of short series.

The Giants need to balance out their offense. so I take Pujols over Cain. They may not be as good IN the playoffs, but at least we would be assured of getting there. Cuz we all know, once you get there, anything can happen.

 

[Truthspeaker]

How about everyone What is your opinion. Who would you rather have on YOUR home team?

Matt Cain or Albert Pujols.

 

[Andrew2382]

has nothing to do with the yankees you twit...you are the one who started throwing ou the stats on the yanks....

THE NATIONAL LEAGUE HAS NOT TAKEN AN INTERLEAGUE SERIES IN THE PAST 9 YEARS!!!!! If that doesn't show you that it's an inferior league then you are clueless.

How do you determine which league is better...interleague play is the only way to factor it...you can't compare stats from one team to another...you have to let them play...a 1200 game sample is more then enough and the AL has more then 700 wins..

You apparently don't value pitching if you are willign to gice up Cain who is #1 material for someone like manny or Pujols....BASEBALL 101 in case you missed it last time....PITCHING WINS YOU GAMES AND CHAMPIONSHIPS. It is by far the most important aspect of a team..

You build your team aroudn your pitching...ask any GM that and they will tell you the same. We have seen time and time again good pitching shut down Offensive teams...and it will continue to happen.

 

[Andrew2382]

How about everyone What is your opinion. Who would you rather have on YOUR home team?

Matt Cain or Albert Pujols.

thats a ridiculous question, cause every team has different needs...the real question is...if you were the GM of the giants would u make that trade...i myself wouldn't.

There are plenty of bats out there....very few stud pitchers

 

[Truthspeaker]

How about everyone What is your opinion. Who would you rather have on YOUR home team?

Matt Cain or Albert Pujols.

thats a ridiculous question, cause every team has different needs...the real question is...if you were the GM of the giants would u make that trade...i myself wouldn't.

There are plenty of bats out there....very few stud pitchers

There aren't plenty of bats out there. We've been trying to get one since Matt Williams left in 97. It's not easy to have a premier bat. Every championship team, along with pitching needs at least two stud hitters. that's what has held the Giants back all these years. Add a Matt Williams in his prime to stay with Bonds post 97 and you would have seen the 02 series be over in 5 games. (They still blew it anyways with just Bonds).

Balance. Listen to me meat. It's not one aspect that wins championships. It's balance.

 

[Xenophon]

How about everyone What is your opinion. Who would you rather have on YOUR home team?

Matt Cain or Albert Pujols.

Cain, no question.

Remember this, in 1969 the NY Mets won a World series with Tom Seaver.

Not a single one of the Mets hitters were memorable, yet the team they beat had a number of hall of famers including Brooks Robertson.

When you have great pitching, you always have a chance.

When you have great hitting, you fill up stat books and watch the world series on TV.

 

[Andrew2382]

wow someone else who knows the game agrees with me

shocking

and don't call me meat...your lack of baseball fundamental and knowledge doesn't give you the right to use Bull Durham terms...you must earn that right

 

[Xenophon]

NY rolls along, beating seattle again on tex's 9th inning HR.

Boston scores 6 with 2 out in the 9th to beat Texas and keep station at 6 1/2 behind.

 

[Paulie]

Yeah, pitching is the main reason you haven't been this good since '04, X.

I've been saying for a while now though, SF is one big bat away from being a powerhouse.

But you just don't trade a pitcher with cy young potential for that bat, sorry.

Yes you do. Look at the Dodgers. They have a comfortable lead on us and don't even have 1 guy as good as cain or lincecum.
Adding a Pujols will win you close to 50 games because of the positive effects he would have on a guy like Pablo Sandoval and Freddy Sanchez. I still do Cain for Pujols.

The Dodgers don't have Cain and Lincecum, no, but who the hell does? That's the kind of 1-2 you rarely see. The Dodgers have some good pitchers in their rotation. They're not Cain and Lincecum, but they're not bad by any means. They keep their team in the game so their bats can score enough runs to win. Same thing with the Phillies last year. Our pitching wasn't stellar, but it was better than any other year in recent memory and that's what got us over the hump.

LA's pitchers got them to the NLCS last year, and it was those pitchers performing poorly that lost it for them, too.

Pujols would simply not make up for losing Cain. I stick by that.

 

[Xenophon]

You don't trade aces for anybody.

Not if you want to win.

Frisco could have had a ton of decent hitters that were moved for next to nothing, SF is just trying to win on the cheap.

 

[Paulie]

I don't understand why SF didn't go after Holliday.

I also think they could have used a combination of Sanchez and maybe Fred Lewis, for Dan Uggla.

SF has some arms in AAA ready to come up. Sanchez is expendable if it means a bat like Uggla.

Sorry, but dealing Cain ends your chances at the postseason.

 

[Xenophon]

The Giants could have had:

Holiday
Njer Morgan
Eric Hinski
Nick Johnson
Jeff Francouer

all for players to be named later or low level prospects.

Giants are trying to win without adding payroll, that is why they didn't get a bat.

 

[Paulie]

If Rowand played to his potential, that would help. He had that great contract year with Philly, and then NOTHING after signing. Go figure

He's capable of .300/30/100

 

[Paulie]

What a bunch of bullshit at the end of the phils game. Lidge is managing to find every single way to blow a game this season.

Rubber match tomorrow for bragging rights, Chris.

 

[Truthspeaker]

If Rowand played to his potential, that would help. He had that great contract year with Philly, and then NOTHING after signing. Go figure

He's capable of .300/30/100

Rowand is not capable of all of those at the same time. He is a .280 20 homer 75 rbi guy. Respectable if he could just do that.