The Aftermath of the Trial

[dilloduck]

Let's examine this case through "the looking glass" as it were...

Let's pretend that Trayvon Martin is a 17 year old white kid, on his way home from visiting the 7/11 when George Zimmerman, the African-American Captain of the Neighborhood Watch group spots him. Let's also pretend that the gated community that our black George Zimmerman is driving through has been victimized by white teens breaking into houses. So when our black George sees this strange white teen, he calls the Police to report him as being suspicious. When the teen runs off our black George tries to keep him in sight so he can tell the Police where the boy is.

In the meantime our white teen is on the phone with his Cracker friend who he tells that he's being followed by a "creepy assed ******". He then leaves the safety of the condo he's staying at...walks back to confront our black George Zimmerman...punches him in the face, knocks him to the ground, mounts him and continues to beat him.

Now you tell me...would the main stream media take "black George Zimmerman" over the coals for shooting our "white Trayvon Martin"? Would there be nationwide protests if he was found not guilty of murder for protecting himself?

In my opinion, hell yeah. They would show the same innocent pictures of the little white kid and demonize the black guy in one way or another. I can almost guarantee you that people would have been calling for his head because he got out of the truck of followed that little white teen who was afraid for his life and only when he felt cornered by "the mean black guy" did he strike out in self defense.

you can almost guarantee it ? Really ?

 

[Katzndogz]

I don't understand why blacks don't want to have the legal right to defend themselves. I sure want them to have it.

All the questions about Zimmerman, that he was asking for a beating reminds me of the rapist who's defense was that the women he raped was dressed in such a manner she was asking to be raped....

That was a loser as is all the Travon Martin defenses that Zimmerman was asking to be assaulted.

Do you think if the women in question had a gun and shot the rapist, the libs would be defending him?

Absolutely, not a doubt.

 

[Katzndogz]

Suppose Zimmerman was attacked by Martin and didn't have a gun, but was able to beat the holy crap out of the 17 year old fighter. Would that be "child abuse"?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Zimmerman was found not guilty.

Whether he is ‘innocent’ or not we’ll never know.

I know its hard for you to process but a not guilty verdict in a self defense trial means innocent.....

Do you think tat O.J. was "innocent"?

Of killing his wife, or just in general?

 

[Mertex]

It's hard to just sit down and respond to all of these opinions in one extra long response post. I will address just a few.

You're right about that, but I wanted to comment on your comments, too.

Also, he just mentioned Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, as being responsible for inciting the left, but Faux News, Hannity and other right-wing media also played up the right-wing side by fanning the flames and assuming that GZ was innocent from the start.

This case was not a case that turned on the guilt or innocence of anyone. We know George Zimmerman fired the fatal shot. He admitted it. This case was one that decided whether or not firing that fatal shot was justified. The jury's verdict was that the act was justified.

I agree with that.

The reason why this case can't be compared to the OJ case is because the OJ case did involve questions of guilt or innocence. OJ denied being the killer. He said he didn't do it, someone else did it. The prosecution could never prove that he committed the acts that led to death beyond a reasonable doubt and there was no issue of whether or not the acts were justified. The doubt was that it was as reasonable to conclude that someone else killed Goldman and Brown, as it was reasonable to conclude that OJ did it. With that kind of evidence, the jury has no choice but to acquit. Just like in the Zimmerman case, once they concluded that Zimmerman was being beaten and felt that he would be beaten to death, the jury had no choice but to acquit.

But there never was solid proof that TM was the one that attacked GZ. That is all speculation based on GZ's account and taken at face value. We know that GZ got out of his car, if he was truly afraid, he wouldn't have done that. Maybe he wasn't afraid at that time, and felt pretty confident since he had a gun? We don't know, but his story about looking for a street sign was pretty flaky since he lived in that area for some time and there are only 3 streets. That in itself tells me that GZ wanted a confrontation, and because he had a gun he was not afraid of it.

Trayvon Martin was a thug in training. This is not important except in one respect. Was being a young thug, just trying his wings, the kind of person who would have a propensity to attack others? The jury, upon the testimony of Rachel Jeantel that Martin probably threw the first punch, concluded that he was.

I don't know that TM was a thug in training. He was just a teenager. Most teenagers get into scraps at one time or another. He didn't have a record and wasn't even carrying a knife. Even if TM threw the first punch, we really don't know what GZ said to him or how he approached him, all we know is what he tells us because none of the witnesses were there at this point in the encounter. But it could have been GZ pushed him or just confronted him. It is all speculation.

There is a sickness in the black community that encourages the belief that there is some sort of right to commit crimes. The attacks and vandalism now being played out did not start with Trayvon Martin. It has been going on for years. Long, long before the names Martin or Zimmerman were ever heard. It's an excuse now. "Bash for Trayvon". It justifies what they wanted to do and were going to do anyway.

I don't know where you get that information. Maybe in a ghetto or a gang infested neighborhood, but most blacks I know don't feel or act that way. Perhaps if we "whites" experienced the same injustices in the courts, we would start reacting the same way? You can't just look at one side and cast blame. The comments being made by "whites" against a kid who is dead are truly insensitive and unwarranted. He is dead. One has a signature indicating that he "hates TM and wishes he is in hell" just makes you wonder where all that hate comes from. Why would anyone feel that way about someone that is dead, they don't know and have never met and don't know if what GZ said about the incident is the truth? I felt that GZ should have at least gotten manslaughter or probation, but I don't hate GZ and don't wish him ill-will.

If the sensible black people do not take charge and get a handle on the kind of violence coming from this part of the nation, there is no hope for them. None at all. The brush of violence is so broad that it will absolutely paint each and every black person that walks the streets.

I think that us whites need to re-asses our laws and our justice system and look into why blacks are treated more severely for the same crime than whites. As a Christian I do not like injustice and unfairness and skin color isn't something that we acquire on our own, we have nothing to do with it. God made us the way we are, we didn't make ourselves and being proud of something we had no part in doing is dumb. And for those that don't believe in God, well, you also had nothing to do with the color of your skin.

 

[Mertex]

I don't understand why blacks don't want to have the legal right to defend themselves. I sure want them to have it.

All the questions about Zimmerman, that he was asking for a beating reminds me of the rapist who's defense was that the women he raped was dressed in such a manner she was asking to be raped....

That was a loser as is all the Travon Martin defenses that Zimmerman was asking to be assaulted.

Do you think if the women in question had a gun and shot the rapist, the libs would be defending him?

Absolutely, not a doubt.

Seriously? I think the conservatives would be more likely to defend him, because he had a gun.

 

[Mertex]

The one tidbit I'm a bit fussy over is whether or not he's innocent. I don't believe that being found "not guilty" means you're absolutely innocent. There are plenty of people who were found guilty but then decades later found to have been completely innocent. Conversely, I'm sure there are those who really did do evil, murderous things but were found "not guilty" by the state whether due to weak/no evidence, being really good at deceit, etc. The state found GZ "not guilty," but my contention is that it's at least remotely possible that George really did do wrong but got away with it.

Then you do not believe in the justice system.

A man is innocent until PROVEN guilty. Unless you are judged guilty, you ARE innocent.

There is no doubt, unless you do not believe in the basic concept that only a jury can take away your status as an innocent.

Okay, that's stretching it a bit. A man may be found "innocent" by a court of law, but could very well be guilty of the crime he was accused of, but just able to convince the jury that he was not and vice versa. That doesn't mean he is innocent, just innocent as far as the court of law is concerned.

If that was not the case we wouldn't have so many that have been released by the courts after DNA proved their innocence, many times proving that someone that was considered innocent was actually the guilty one.

 

[Katzndogz]

All the questions about Zimmerman, that he was asking for a beating reminds me of the rapist who's defense was that the women he raped was dressed in such a manner she was asking to be raped....

That was a loser as is all the Travon Martin defenses that Zimmerman was asking to be assaulted.

Do you think if the women in question had a gun and shot the rapist, the libs would be defending him?

Absolutely, not a doubt.

Seriously? I think the conservatives would be more likely to defend him, because he had a gun.

No Conservatives would defend the women because SHE was the one with a gun. The whole point of repealing self defense laws is so those women won't have guns anymore and won't be able to hurt the poor rapists who have a right to sex and a right to have fun.

 

[Mertex]

Absolutely, not a doubt.

Seriously? I think the conservatives would be more likely to defend him, because he had a gun.

No Conservatives would defend the women because SHE was the one with a gun. The whole point of repealing self defense laws is so those women won't have guns anymore and won't be able to hurt the poor rapists who have a right to sex and a right to have fun.

My bad, I didn't read it through - but in that case, liberals would be the ones defending the woman, because liberals are always trying to protect women's rights, and women have the right to wear sexy clothes without some jerk thinking it's an invitation for him to party with her, and she would definitely have the right to plug him if he "raped" her. Conservatives would be blaming her for having worn sexy outfit.
Contrary to conservative belief, many libs have guns, they are just more responsible with them.

 

[thanatos144]

Zimmerman was found not guilty.

Whether he is ‘innocent’ or not we’ll never know.

I know its hard for you to process but a not guilty verdict in a self defense trial means innocent.....

Do you think tat O.J. was "innocent"?

Yes

 

[dilloduck]

Seriously? I think the conservatives would be more likely to defend him, because he had a gun.

No Conservatives would defend the women because SHE was the one with a gun. The whole point of repealing self defense laws is so those women won't have guns anymore and won't be able to hurt the poor rapists who have a right to sex and a right to have fun.

My bad, I didn't read it through - but in that case, liberals would be the ones defending the woman, because liberals are always trying to protect women's rights, and women have the right to wear sexy clothes without some jerk thinking it's an invitation for him to party with her, and she would definitely have the right to plug him if he "raped" her. Conservatives would be blaming her for having worn sexy outfit.
Contrary to conservative belief, many libs have guns, they are just more responsible with them.

Where did you get the idea that conservatives think that liberals don't have guns and where is you data to prove that liberals use them more responsibly ? You do understand that Zimmerman is a liberal right?

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I know its hard for you to process but a not guilty verdict in a self defense trial means innocent.....

Do you think tat O.J. was "innocent"?

Yes

OJ is and was guilty of double murder; far from innocent.

"Acquitted" is not actually a synonym of "innocent."

 

[Agit8r]

It's about law and order:

"One of the first motives to civil society, and which becomes one of its fundamental rules, is that no man should be judge in his own cause. By this each person has at once divested himself of the first fundamental right of uncovenanted man, that is, to judge for himself and to assert his own cause. He abdicates all right to be his own governor. He inclusively, in a great measure, abandons the right of self-defense, the first law of nature. Men cannot enjoy the rights of an uncivil and of a civil state together. That he may obtain justice, he gives up his right of determining what it is in points the most essential to him. That he may secure some liberty, he makes a surrender in trust of the whole of it."
-- Edmund Burke; from Reflections on the Revolution in France (1790)

Whatever Zimmerman's motivations were--whether his unfounded prejudices were racial or otherwise--he clearly made a few errors in judgement that day. That neither he nor the people who call him a hero are able to realize this is a shame.

 

[numan]

'

His errors of judgment were wowsers, weren't they?

But one has come to expect that in those brought up in the modern day horrors of American "culture."

.

 

[Rozman]

The Zimmerman verdict represents a devolution of the justice system and a return to the notion that "lynching" is okay. This might even become the lynchpin of a second civil rights movement

Or maybe the jury listened to the testimony,weighed whatever evidence was presented
was instructed by the Judge and returned a verdict.

Now the left doesn't like the verdict and will try to create a race war..

 

[Rozman]

If Zimmerman is tried again for this as a Civil Rights issue the message will be sent
that the trial was a show trial and that justice that they said they were seeking had nothing to do with it
and the only thing they would be happy with was revenge.

 

[Katzndogz]

If the second civil rights movement to secure the rights of black people license to commit crimes on non black people, quite possibly we have entered into the second era of civil rights.

 

[PMZ]

I think that GZ was found not guilty of breaking FL's laws for murder, which I agree with, but also manslaughter, which I don't agree with.

It would have been simple for him to have prevented this tragedy. Leave his gun at home or in the car. Carrying it to the scene, against police advice, shows grave indifference to human life IMO.

TM, on the other hand, committed no crime. Was not a threat to anyone. His life was endangered not by his actions but by GZ's.

I do believe that GZ regretted his actions. Too little, too late.

 

[PMZ]

Looking in hindsight, always risky, if the prosecution had tried GZ for manslaughter, it would have been nearly impossible for the defense to explain away "they always get away with it".

"They" when all G knew was that T was black, "it" which would have given away George's frame of mind for bringing a gun to a peaceful scene.

 

[Oldstyle]

I think that GZ was found not guilty of breaking FL's laws for murder, which I agree with, but also manslaughter, which I don't agree with.

It would have been simple for him to have prevented this tragedy. Leave his gun at home or in the car. Carrying it to the scene, against police advice, shows grave indifference to human life IMO.

TM, on the other hand, committed no crime. Was not a threat to anyone. His life was endangered not by his actions but by GZ's.

I do believe that GZ regretted his actions. Too little, too late.

Are you smoking crack? Trayvon Martin committed no crime? He committed assault and battery, which is not only a crime but a felony. What part of that don't you GET?