The Aftermath of the Trial

[Oldstyle]

Looking in hindsight, always risky, if the prosecution had tried GZ for manslaughter, it would have been nearly impossible for the defense to explain away "they always get away with it".

"They" when all G knew was that T was black, "it" which would have given away George's frame of mind for bringing a gun to a peaceful scene.

They did charge him with manslaughter...a charge which the jury found him not guilty of for the same reasons that they found him not guilty of Murder II. George Zimmerman was attacked by Trayvon Martin for following him. Zimmerman used his weapon to shoot someone who was straddling him and raining blows down at his head. It's one of the most clear cut cases of self defense I've ever seen.

In hindsight, the original Prosecutor, who declined to bring charges against Zimmerman because he felt the case was so weak, was proven to be 100% correct in that assessment.
If Angela Cory had taken her case to a Grand Jury it's almost certain that THEY would declined to find probable cause to take the case to trial as well...something Cory obviously KNEW when she sidestepped taking it to a Grand Jury and took it to a Judge instead...lying about the circumstances of the case to get an arrest warrant issued for Zimmerman. You're going to see the Special Prosecutor Cory get punished for how she conducted this case. They won't be able to do it while she is still in office but those charges will be pending.

 

[PMZ]

Without GZ's decision to pack for no reason except for prejudice, there is no crime here. He made a fatal error. He's free due to prosecutorial misjudgement, not his innocence.

 

[Pop23]

Without GZ's decision to pack for no reason except for prejudice, there is no crime here. He made a fatal error. He's free due to prosecutorial misjudgement, not his innocence.

There was no crime by Zimmerman

How many times do I need to ask this

YOU are having your head bashed onto a concrete sidewalk, you have two options:

1. You allow the attack to continue with the possibility the attack kills you

Or

2. You shoot the attacker to stop your head from being pounded into the concrete

Which option do you take?

Reality might just set in when you honestly answer the question

That might be too much to ask, but give it the old college try

 

[Oldstyle]

Without GZ's decision to pack for no reason except for prejudice, there is no crime here. He made a fatal error. He's free due to prosecutorial misjudgement, not his innocence.

The reason that George Zimmerman was "packing" was because of problems with a pit bull in the neighborhood. If he hadn't had his weapon there is the possibility that it would have been HIM that was dead on the ground that night or severely injured.

He's free because the Prosecution didn't have a case to try him with in the first place. You'd grasp that fact if you weren't so biased in your view of what happened.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Yet you place all the blame on Zimmerman. Typical Lib. If Martin had simply gone home and not assaulted Zimmerman, he'd be alive. Had Martin not done things that got him suspended from school, he would not have been in Sanford.

But it's Zim's fault for carrying a firearm. OK.

Not for carying it : for playing the vigilante without propper trainning , and getting into a fist fight that cost the life of another person. Hell , the police was just 1 minute away .

And yes ... what an evil lot we liberls are : social service in exchange for his imprudence.

He did not "play the vigilante". That is another lie you should have been schooled on. He did not "get into a fist fight." He was sucker punched by Trayvon. I suppose next you'll say if Zimmerman had just moved his jaw out of the way of Trayvon's fist none of this would have happened.
Neg for gross stupidity and ignorance.

Ok pal , in order to avoid any misunderstanding, when I say "getting into a fist fight that cost the life of another person." I am refering to this :

"About two minutes into the call, Zimmerman said, "he's running".[16] The dispatcher asked, "He's running? Which way is he running?"[77] Noises on the tape at this point have been interpreted by some media outlets as the sound of a car door chime, possibly indicating Zimmerman opened his car door."

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it was quite idiotic from him getting out of his car and getting into a fist fight with Trayvon Martin lacking any propper training on how to perform an arrest.

 

[BobPlumb]

The reason that a person has a CWP is to legally be able to carry a gun. The reason to carry a gun is to be able to shoot the guy that violently attacks you.

 

[Pogo]

Good thoughtful OP. I'll leave it unquoted in the interest of space but good work.

I'm still stupefied, though not unexpectedly, that so much hot air is expended on a case like this and that millions of armchair detectives see fit to declare "this guy's guilty of this, that guy's innocent of that" in an incident none of us witnessed between two guys none of us knows in a place none of us has ever been. We seriously seriously need to get the fuck over ourselves.

I don't see this whole fake-news story as stirred up by any political "side"; I see it as stirred up by mass media, because it involves guns and race and to the extent they can milk it, legal mystery. And that's what sells papers. If only there had been a sex scandal involved, they'd need a bib for their collective drooling.

Ultimately all of this says far less about racial relations or Stand Your Ground or the legal system than it says about mass media and the power it has to distract the populace with emotional news candy while something that's actually significant goes on ignored.

 

[Oldstyle]

Not for carying it : for playing the vigilante without propper trainning , and getting into a fist fight that cost the life of another person. Hell , the police was just 1 minute away .

And yes ... what an evil lot we liberls are : social service in exchange for his imprudence.

He did not "play the vigilante". That is another lie you should have been schooled on. He did not "get into a fist fight." He was sucker punched by Trayvon. I suppose next you'll say if Zimmerman had just moved his jaw out of the way of Trayvon's fist none of this would have happened.
Neg for gross stupidity and ignorance.

Ok pal , in order to avoid any misunderstanding, when I say "getting into a fist fight that cost the life of another person." I am refering to this :

"About two minutes into the call, Zimmerman said, "he's running".[16] The dispatcher asked, "He's running? Which way is he running?"[77] Noises on the tape at this point have been interpreted by some media outlets as the sound of a car door chime, possibly indicating Zimmerman opened his car door."

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it was quite idiotic from him getting out of his car and getting into a fist fight with Trayvon Martin lacking any propper training on how to perform an arrest.

You just gave Zimmerman's reason for getting out of his SUV. He was asked by the dispatcher "Which way is he running?" and in order to answer that question Zimmerman gets out of his SUV and goes to the T area in an attempt to keep Martin in sight. You assume that means that Zimmerman intends to confront Martin and try and arrest him but that makes no sense given Zimmerman's history. He's NEVER attempted to arrest someone before in any of the many calls he's made to Police. He's NEVER confronted someone in any of the many calls he's made to Police. All he's doing at that point is trying to keep the suspect in view after he loses sight of Trayvon Martin when he runs. He's called the Police and knows they are in route to the complex. THEY would be the one's to confront Martin.

The REASON that there is a fist fight is that Trayvon Martin confronts George Zimmerman on Zimmerman's way BACK to his SUV and sucker punches him in the face. Given George Zimmerman's history and his general demeanor I think it's safe to say that if he SAW Trayvon Martin coming towards him that he would have retreated. George Zimmerman is NOT a violent, confrontational person. I'm sorry, he's just not. He's pretty much a wuss. That fight takes place because Trayvon makes it take place. HE leaves the safety of the condo he was staying at and walks BACK to confront someone following him in the pitch dark between those buildings. That isn't the act of a "victim" that is the act of an aggressor.

 

[earlycuyler]

He did not "play the vigilante". That is another lie you should have been schooled on. He did not "get into a fist fight." He was sucker punched by Trayvon. I suppose next you'll say if Zimmerman had just moved his jaw out of the way of Trayvon's fist none of this would have happened.
Neg for gross stupidity and ignorance.

Ok pal , in order to avoid any misunderstanding, when I say "getting into a fist fight that cost the life of another person." I am refering to this :

"About two minutes into the call, Zimmerman said, "he's running".[16] The dispatcher asked, "He's running? Which way is he running?"[77] Noises on the tape at this point have been interpreted by some media outlets as the sound of a car door chime, possibly indicating Zimmerman opened his car door."

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it was quite idiotic from him getting out of his car and getting into a fist fight with Trayvon Martin lacking any propper training on how to perform an arrest.

You just gave Zimmerman's reason for getting out of his SUV. He was asked by the dispatcher "Which way is he running?" and in order to answer that question Zimmerman gets out of his SUV and goes to the T area in an attempt to keep Martin in sight. You assume that means that Zimmerman intends to confront Martin and try and arrest him but that makes no sense given Zimmerman's history. He's NEVER attempted to arrest someone before in any of the many calls he's made to Police. He's NEVER confronted someone in any of the many calls he's made to Police. All he's doing at that point is trying to keep the suspect in view after he loses sight of Trayvon Martin when he runs. He's called the Police and knows they are in route to the complex. THEY would be the one's to confront Martin.

The REASON that there is a fist fight is that Trayvon Martin confronts George Zimmerman on Zimmerman's way BACK to his SUV and sucker punches him in the face. Given George Zimmerman's history and his general demeanor I think it's safe to say that if he SAW Trayvon Martin coming towards him that he would have retreated. George Zimmerman is NOT a violent, confrontational person. I'm sorry, he's just not. He's pretty much a wuss. That fight takes place because Trayvon makes it take place. HE leaves the safety of the condo he was staying at and walks BACK to confront someone following him in the pitch dark between those buildings. That isn't the act of a "victim" that is the act of an aggressor.

All this nonsense can be applied to Zimmerman, who by carrying a fire arm put him in violation of the regs of his neighborhood watch program, not to mention the fact that he continued to follow martin. Zimmerman did not walk because he was innocent. He walked because the DA was incompetent. This is why you guys keep going bact to " thug in training".

 

[PMZ]

I think that GZ was found not guilty of breaking FL's laws for murder, which I agree with, but also manslaughter, which I don't agree with.

It would have been simple for him to have prevented this tragedy. Leave his gun at home or in the car. Carrying it to the scene, against police advice, shows grave indifference to human life IMO.

TM, on the other hand, committed no crime. Was not a threat to anyone. His life was endangered not by his actions but by GZ's.

I do believe that GZ regretted his actions. Too little, too late.

Are you smoking crack? Trayvon Martin committed no crime? He committed assault and battery, which is not only a crime but a felony. What part of that don't you GET?

Lack of evidence. In FL they have a stand your ground law to protect those who are armed from prosecution. It, apparently, doesn't apply to those who are unarmed.

 

[PMZ]

He did not "play the vigilante". That is another lie you should have been schooled on. He did not "get into a fist fight." He was sucker punched by Trayvon. I suppose next you'll say if Zimmerman had just moved his jaw out of the way of Trayvon's fist none of this would have happened.
Neg for gross stupidity and ignorance.

Ok pal , in order to avoid any misunderstanding, when I say "getting into a fist fight that cost the life of another person." I am refering to this :

"About two minutes into the call, Zimmerman said, "he's running".[16] The dispatcher asked, "He's running? Which way is he running?"[77] Noises on the tape at this point have been interpreted by some media outlets as the sound of a car door chime, possibly indicating Zimmerman opened his car door."

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it was quite idiotic from him getting out of his car and getting into a fist fight with Trayvon Martin lacking any propper training on how to perform an arrest.

You just gave Zimmerman's reason for getting out of his SUV. He was asked by the dispatcher "Which way is he running?" and in order to answer that question Zimmerman gets out of his SUV and goes to the T area in an attempt to keep Martin in sight. You assume that means that Zimmerman intends to confront Martin and try and arrest him but that makes no sense given Zimmerman's history. He's NEVER attempted to arrest someone before in any of the many calls he's made to Police. He's NEVER confronted someone in any of the many calls he's made to Police. All he's doing at that point is trying to keep the suspect in view after he loses sight of Trayvon Martin when he runs. He's called the Police and knows they are in route to the complex. THEY would be the one's to confront Martin.

The REASON that there is a fist fight is that Trayvon Martin confronts George Zimmerman on Zimmerman's way BACK to his SUV and sucker punches him in the face. Given George Zimmerman's history and his general demeanor I think it's safe to say that if he SAW Trayvon Martin coming towards him that he would have retreated. George Zimmerman is NOT a violent, confrontational person. I'm sorry, he's just not. He's pretty much a wuss. That fight takes place because Trayvon makes it take place. HE leaves the safety of the condo he was staying at and walks BACK to confront someone following him in the pitch dark between those buildings. That isn't the act of a "victim" that is the act of an aggressor.

It sounds like you were there.

 

[PaulS1950]

According to the evidence accepted at the trial, Zimmerman was returning to his car and had been for nearly 75 yards when he was attacked and beaten. That is when he used the gun he carries for self defense. In no way was he trying to arrest Martin. The trial focused on the illegality of the incidence of force. That is when Zimmerman was attacked and not before. There were no laws broken until that attack. In that incident the only lawbreaker was Martin. Zimmerman legally used the gun he legally carried to defend himself against an illegal, felonious, attack by Martin.

Zimmerman was found not guilty. End of story. Quit using the news stories in an attempt to convict an innocent man. The news lied and they are being sued for doing so.

Mistakes were made that day but it has no bearing on the attack by Martin on Zimmerman and the results that occurred. If Zimmerman had left his gun at home he would, at best be in the hospital, and at worst he would be dead. Martin would have been on trial for at least the felony of assault and battery and at worst aggravated murder. Many different possibilities existed but when you take the evidence that was accepted at the trial there is only one verdict possible in this case, NOT GUILTY.

 

[Pogo]

It sounds like you were there.

Yeah, we all were. We know everything that went down, even better than those who were there, thanks to our media that never sleeps and would never ever exaggerate or fabricate or speculate or prevaricate or masturbate just to pump their own ratings so we can totally trust them.

Yeah. that's the ticket...

 

[justoffal]

This is an outstanding answer...

This is so well worded and so full of real value that it should be printed and distributed en masse to quell the storm of racial tension that is currently brewing at the behest and glee of the left wing Anarchy squads.

Obama should have his mouth removed Matrix style by Agent smith for shitting all over the bully pulpit with words designed to re-ignite a civil war in this nation.

The sooner that moron is out of DC the better for the nation.

JO

 

[PMZ]

According to the evidence accepted at the trial, Zimmerman was returning to his car and had been for nearly 75 yards when he was attacked and beaten. That is when he used the gun he carries for self defense. In no way was he trying to arrest Martin. The trial focused on the illegality of the incidence of force. That is when Zimmerman was attacked and not before. There were no laws broken until that attack. In that incident the only lawbreaker was Martin. Zimmerman legally used the gun he legally carried to defend himself against an illegal, felonious, attack by Martin.

Zimmerman was found not guilty. End of story. Quit using the news stories in an attempt to convict an innocent man. The news lied and they are being sued for doing so.

Mistakes were made that day but it has no bearing on the attack by Martin on Zimmerman and the results that occurred. If Zimmerman had left his gun at home he would, at best be in the hospital, and at worst he would be dead. Martin would have been on trial for at least the felony of assault and battery and at worst aggravated murder. Many different possibilities existed but when you take the evidence that was accepted at the trial there is only one verdict possible in this case, NOT GUILTY.

There is no way to know what evidence was accepted by the jury. There is no way to know the degree to which both prosecution and defense effectively presented the evidence. All that can be said for sure was the verdict against the prosecutions case. I personally am of the opinion that if the prosecution had built their case around manslaughter they would have gotten a conviction. Why? The FL stand your ground murder law makes convictions for unwitnessed violent deaths almost impossible to achieve.

I don't think that this was about race. It was about bad law.

 

[thanatos144]

I think that GZ was found not guilty of breaking FL's laws for murder, which I agree with, but also manslaughter, which I don't agree with.

It would have been simple for him to have prevented this tragedy. Leave his gun at home or in the car. Carrying it to the scene, against police advice, shows grave indifference to human life IMO.

TM, on the other hand, committed no crime. Was not a threat to anyone. His life was endangered not by his actions but by GZ's.

I do believe that GZ regretted his actions. Too little, too late.

Are you smoking crack? Trayvon Martin committed no crime? He committed assault and battery, which is not only a crime but a felony. What part of that don't you GET?

Lack of evidence. In FL they have a stand your ground law to protect those who are armed from prosecution. It, apparently, doesn't apply to those who are unarmed.

Stand your ground had nothing to do with this case. Educate yourself

 

[PMZ]

This is an outstanding answer...

This is so well worded and so full of real value that it should be printed and distributed en masse to quell the storm of racial tension that is currently brewing at the behest and glee of the left wing Anarchy squads.

Obama should have his mouth removed Matrix style by Agent smith for shitting all over the bully pulpit with words designed to re-ignite a civil war in this nation.

The sooner that moron is out of DC the better for the nation.

JO

Just think of how much better off we'd be with John McCain and Sarah Palin running the country. Perhaps even Congress would have returned to work.

 

[justoffal]

You are spot on and totally accurate about that.

Obama actually taught side by side with Alinsky at one point during his life.... The whole idea is to prove that freedoms...espeically of speech and armament don't work and that only an all powerful government can protect the populous from itself.

This is total BS of course however micreants like Obama ( who was most likely sexually abused growing up ) and Alinsky ( a well known pedophile who may also have had growing up issues ) are drawn to that kind of control because it gives them a sense of security that they never had and provides a vent for their bitter designs in the form of social vengeance....then of course they want to force it on everyone else.

JO

 

[Boss]

Aftermath

I see far too many of the 'usual suspects' turning this into a political issue here, and in the nation. This was not about liberalism, conservatism, or libertarianism. Why do we put up with this? People who are totally ignorant of the case, the evidence presented, the rule of law as it applies in this case, are interjecting emotive politically-based opinions, because that is what EVERYTHING comes down to these days. They have to "pick sides" and go to the mat fighting for "justice" because that's what the rest of the people who share their political philosophy are doing.

Wake, our justice system was established on the principle (not the notion), that you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. It does not mean that someone found not guilty is innocent of any type of poor judgement, errors or mistakes. It simply means they are innocent of the specified charge. We can't convict people based on our opinions of what they may have done differently to avoid the situation. For instance, we hear people argue, "If Zimmerman had stayed in his truck and followed the 911 dispatcher's instructions, this wouldn't have happened!" And we don't KNOW that for certain. This is speculation. Trayvon may have become so obsessed with 'getting even' that he stalked Zimmerman days later and attacked him when he left his truck to enter his home or a store, we don't know. Zimmerman obviously had to leave his truck at some time, he couldn't very well be expected to live the rest of his days in the cab of his truck. But we assume, if he had remained there, none of this would have happened. We don't convict people of murder because they failed to do something we assume they should have done, in retrospect. We have a clearly defined criteria for murder conviction, and the jury found Zimmerman not guilty, as well as not guilty of manslaughter.

What a REASONABLE society should be debating in the aftermath, is how to avoid such incidents in the future. Gun control would not have likely prevented a murder that night, it may have been a different victim, but a murder was still a possibility. Trayvon had his mind set on violence as a solution, and this should be our focus, and where we need to address this issue. But that's not happening. Why was a young black 17-year-old of the mindset that he needed to resort to violence? Is this cultural influence, and if so, what can we do about that as a society? Was it poor parenting, or perhaps a lack of knowing what to do as parents, which could have been the result of improper resources and avenues available for help? Was it the trend of glorifying gang culture? These are the questions as responsible society should be asking in the aftermath. Instead, it is turned into a political football game, where the cheerleaders come out to cheer on their "team" and trash talk the opposition.

 

[PMZ]

Are you smoking crack? Trayvon Martin committed no crime? He committed assault and battery, which is not only a crime but a felony. What part of that don't you GET?

Lack of evidence. In FL they have a stand your ground law to protect those who are armed from prosecution. It, apparently, doesn't apply to those who are unarmed.

Stand your ground had nothing to do with this case. Educate yourself

"The jury instructions—and a reason for their verdict: Just because Zimmerman's defense team didn't bring up Stand Your Ground in the trial (more on that below), that doesn't mean the law was irrelevant to the jury's decision. To the contrary, Judge Debra Nelson made clear in the jury instructions (PDF) that they should consider the law:"

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

"And consider it they did. According to the most outspoken juror, known only as Juror B-37, Stand Your Ground was key to reaching their verdict. She told CNN's Anderson Cooper in an interview that neither second-degree murder nor manslaughter applied in Zimmerman's case "because of the heat of the moment and the 'stand your ground.' He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right.""