The Age of Corporate Treason

[Avatar4321]

Some of you on this forum might have to choose between your two passions - patriotism and capitalism - after reading this excellent article by Ralph Nader.

Why are big, global U.S. corporations so unpatriotic? After all, they were created in the U.S.A., rose to immense profit because of the toil of American workers, are bailed out by American taxpayers whenever they’re in trouble, and are safeguarded abroad by the U.S. military.

Yet these corporate goliaths work their tax lawyers overtime to escape U.S. taxes. Many pay less than you do in federal income taxes. Imagine corporations, like General Electric, have not paid federal income taxes on U.S. profits for years.

The Age of Corporate Treason » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Like most things written or said by Ralph Nader, I've found no reason to change anything I believe in or support.

 

[bripat9643]

While you're quite right about the universal ambition of Man, presenting the concept in those terms poses an open philosophical question. One place to look for an answer is in Abraham Maslow's, Hierarchy of Human Needs, in which the difference between rational aspiration (ambition) and irrational craving (greed) is examined.

Rather than embark on a redundantly academic exchange I'll simply say anything we manage to acquire beyond that which is necessary to adequately sustain and protect our physical organism is categorical luxury. So in keeping with your correct observation that money is merely a means to an end, the open question is where is the rational end? How much, within the boundaries of reason, is enough?

How much joy is enough? How much happiness is enough? How much charity is enough?

Who can be the judge of how much money is enough?[...]

You can be the judge of how much money is enough to satisfy you -- and in doing so to determine whether or not you are gluttonous. So think it over and give us a number. And to make it even more interesting, tell us how you arrived at that number.

Every person that you would label "gluttonous" has determined for themselves that their wants are perfectly reasonable.

 

[The Rabbi]

If you penalize something you get less of it. That's the idea behind speeding tickets and other things. If you tax profits, you get less of them. If you tax capital gains, you get less of them.

Not for me. I don't get less of that! I don't make any money from capital gains and I don't own any stock. But what I don't like, is them paying a 15% tax rate when I'm paying 25%. I don't want anyone paying a lesser rate than me.

t.

Me Me Me.
This is the problem.

 

[Snookie]

MeDD.

 

[Toro]

If you penalize something you get less of it. That's the idea behind speeding tickets and other things. If you tax profits, you get less of them. If you tax capital gains, you get less of them.

Not for me. I don't get less of that! I don't make any money from capital gains and I don't own any stock. But what I don't like, is them paying a 15% tax rate when I'm paying 25%. I don't want anyone paying a lesser rate than me.

Since those things provide the seed for future growth, why would you want less of that?

That's just a bullshit myth!

Corporations are sitting on a record $6 trillion in profits and there are still no jobs!

Roughly 6 million jobs have been created since March 2010.

 

[Billo_Really]

Roughly 6 million jobs have been created since March 2010.

The bulk of which are low-paying service jobs like bartenders, waiters and maids.

No high-tech, high-end jobs en masse have been created. That will come when demand increases and housing starts go up.

 

[Toro]

Roughly 6 million jobs have been created since March 2010.

The bulk of which are low-paying service jobs like bartenders, waiters and maids.

No high-tech, high-end jobs en masse have been created. That will come when demand increases and housing starts go up.

Not quite. If you check the BLS data, what's gone up are the professions, which accounted for roughly 2/3s of new jobs created in 2012.

 

[editec]

Just throwing some proposed definitions of GREED, here

Greed --wanting more than one could possible EVER need.

Greed --the confused state of mind where one believes that one's worth as a person is based on what one owns.

Greed - the state of being where one would take from those whose need causes them to suffer, where the spoils of the taking really does not significantly matter to the well being of the taker.

GREED, contrary to what Randians will try to tell you, is NOT a virtue.

GREED is a mental condition.

GREED is NOT a healthy appetite, it is a neurotic behavior stemming (probably) from fear or a sense of inadaquacy.

GREED is self interest on STERIODS.

 

[Truthmatters]

Greed is a really base way to look at the world.

greedy people are really worthless to society

 

[Snookie]

I have found that greed is a game that the rich love to play.

 

[Truthmatters]

greedy stupid people end up in jail quick.

greedy smart people end up rich.


then the right in this country whorships them

 

[editec]

Of course it is easy for those of us who have little to imagine that those with much must ALL be greedy.

I do not really think that is true. I think a lot of very affluent people are not greedy at all, actually.

And it is also very easy for those of us who have never had the opportunity to amass great wealth -- basically those of us who have never been tempted to be greedy -- to imagine that we would do the noble thing.

I used to think, for example, that power would not corrupt me.

It did, and it did in such a way that I could RATIONALIZE my abuse of that power for a mighty long time until even I could see what it was doing to me.

I do not know, but I suspect that most of us, given opportunity could likewise rationalize greed into need, if the opportunity presented itself.

So, purely for scientific purposes I am willing to RISK MY SOUL to see if I am impervious to GREED.

What I propose for this experiement is that we find some way for me to make SCADS more money than I will ever need, but we set up this experiement such that I will (or at least ought to be able to know) that my new wealth will cost the COMMONWEAL.

If I can eschew this opportunity and can resist that temptation I win, and I will continue to live a modest life.

If I lose and TAKE THE MONEY, then ya'll can chide me for being GREEDY.

Of course if I have enough money, I probably won't be posting here (I'll be having too much fun) but I am WILLING to risk that.

Okay, which of you self proclaiming rich folks are willing to fund this experiment to test the state of my soul?

Come on not RICH PEOPLE, this is for SCIENCE.

 

[Redfish]

Just throwing some proposed definitions of GREED, here

Greed --wanting more than one could possible EVER need.

Greed --the confused state of mind where one believes that one's worth as a person is based on what one owns.

Greed - the state of being where one would take from those whose need causes them to suffer, where the spoils of the taking really does not significantly matter to the well being of the taker.

GREED, contrary to what Randians will try to tell you, is NOT a virtue.

GREED is a mental condition.

GREED is NOT a healthy appetite, it is a neurotic behavior stemming (probably) from fear or a sense of inadaquacy.

GREED is self interest on STERIODS.

if you think that Ayn Rand was about greed then you either have poor reading comprehension skills or you never read any of her books.

She does not advocate greed, what she advocates is individual responsibility, accountability, and freedom. plus non intrusive government and free market capitalism.

all things that the founders of this country embraced and strove to implement in our constitution.

The problem that you libs have with those concepts is that real freedom includes both the freedom to succeed hugely (Gates, Buffet, Jobs) or to fail miserably.

liberals and marxists want to punish the successful and reward the failures by taking money from the successful and giving it to the failures. your goal is equal misery. You can have that----I will take my chances with freedom.

 

[Redfish]

Of course it is easy for those of us who have little to imagine that those with much must ALL be greedy.

I do not really think that is true. I think a lot of very affluent people are not greedy at all, actually.

And it is also very easy for those of us who have never had the opportunity to amass great wealth -- basically those of us who have never been tempted to be greedy -- to imagine that we would do the noble thing.

I used to think, for example, that power would not corrupt me.

It did, and it did in such a way that I could RATIONALIZE my abuse of that power for a mighty long time until even I could see what it was doing to me.

I do not know, but I suspect that most of us, given opportunity could likewise rationalize greed into need, if the opportunity presented itself.

So, purely for scientific purposes I am willing to RISK MY SOUL to see if I am impervious to GREED.

What I propose for this experiement is that we find some way for me to make SCADS more money than I will ever need, but we set up this experiement such that I will (or at least ought to be able to know) that my new wealth will cost the COMMONWEAL.

If I can eschew this opportunity and can resist that temptation I win, and I will continue to live a modest life.

If I lose and TAKE THE MONEY, then ya'll can chide me for being GREEDY.

Of course if I have enough money, I probably won't be posting here (I'll be having too much fun) but I am WILLING to risk that.

Okay, which of you self proclaiming rich folks are willing to fund this experiment to test the state of my soul?

Come on not RICH PEOPLE, this is for SCIENCE.

I will also submit myself to this test of character. If you contributors will PM me, I will give you an address to mail checks.

 

[bripat9643]

Just throwing some proposed definitions of GREED, here

Greed --wanting more than one could possible EVER need.

Greed --the confused state of mind where one believes that one's worth as a person is based on what one owns.

Greed - the state of being where one would take from those whose need causes them to suffer, where the spoils of the taking really does not significantly matter to the well being of the taker.

GREED, contrary to what Randians will try to tell you, is NOT a virtue.

GREED is a mental condition.

GREED is NOT a healthy appetite, it is a neurotic behavior stemming (probably) from fear or a sense of inadaquacy.

GREED is self interest on STERIODS.

None of those definitions are objective.

 

[The Rabbi]

Roughly 6 million jobs have been created since March 2010.

The bulk of which are low-paying service jobs like bartenders, waiters and maids.

No high-tech, high-end jobs en masse have been created. That will come when demand increases and housing starts go up.

Not quite. If you check the BLS data, what's gone up are the professions, which accounted for roughly 2/3s of new jobs created in 2012.

Keep in mind that when the subject is Obama's handling of the economy the left will immediately trot out that 6M figure, like he was personally responsible for it because he's sucha great guy.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

That you have deemed harmful to this country, you mean.

No, things that actually do harm to average Americans. Like corporations not paying their fair share in taxes; that puts the burden on the middle class and people suffer because of it. That's harm!

People who support BP and argued against fining those basturds for the gulf oil spill are traitors to this country. What BP did to fishing in the gulf, harmed this country.

People who vote for right (or left) wing corporate whores are traitors to this country. Because of them, we've lost our representation in government. And that is harmful to this country.

Not paying taxes harms the government, not the country. If corporations don't pay taxes, which is dubious, then I'd say the answer is making it so nobody else has to pay taxes either, not making corporations pay more.

I'd say that BP should have paid reparations to anybody whose property was damaged by the spill, but since nobody owns the water who should they have paid reparations to? That's the problem with so-called "public property," since nobody actually owns it nobody has standing to make a claim.

We have no representation in government, and never have, regardless of who is elected. That's simply the nature of government.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Ok?

What was your other question?

Post #121. Go back and read it!

Are you going to explain your other comment?

What other comment?

Go back to post whatever and read it!

See where being rude gets you?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If you penalize something you get less of it. That's the idea behind speeding tickets and other things. If you tax profits, you get less of them. If you tax capital gains, you get less of them.

Not for me. I don't get less of that! I don't make any money from capital gains and I don't own any stock. But what I don't like, is them paying a 15% tax rate when I'm paying 25%. I don't want anyone paying a lesser rate than me.

Since those things provide the seed for future growth, why would you want less of that?

That's just a bullshit myth!

Corporations are sitting on a record $6 trillion in profits and there are still no jobs!

70% of the economy comes from consumer spending, not corporate investing.

I realize in your mind you want to "stick it to da Man." BUt that's not how life or economics works. Thus my comment about your ignorance.

You're free to think whatever you want to about me, I don't really give a shit.

And the bolded portion seems to be the crux of the issue. Couldn't that be construed as being greedy though?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I'm satisfied with what worldly goods I have. Some people's greed causes them to stress out trying to gain more.

I guess I'll always be a hippie.

I bet there are people out there who would call you greedy.

I really would be interested in knowing why you believe that. Why would anyone call this person greedy?

Because the chances are that he has more "worldly goods" than other people. His house is likely bigger and nicer than some other people's, his car is maybe nicer, something. The point I'm trying to make is that calling someone greedy is entirely subjective. There is no rational basis, so even somebody who makes a comment like he did could be greedy to somebody.