The Biggest Lie wasn't "Like your doctor, keep your doctor".

[Arianrhod]

With the amount of money being lost by insurance companies currently and housing getting above water in CA fairly massive migration is likely to be seen just prior to the general election. Because of registration problems it will not have much immediate effect but the loss of tax base in blue states will have huge effects on the mid-terms. At that point ACA reform will be possible and that could lead to a $2,500 year savings for the average family.

Being lost by insurance companies because they have to use the majority of premiums collected on claims?

Adverse selection is the main problem, but care givers refusing to take new Medicare/Medicaid patients is a very close second. Basically the ACA is increasing bankruptcy rates among the poor.

Again, the usual request for actual data to support this, mmkay?

 

[MarathonMike]

I just don't see any realistic scenario that health care costs reverse coarse and end up saving families money on their health insurance. There are so many factors increasing costs and inefficiencies and so few scenarios that could reverse that trend. And like I keep pointing out, this law is still in it's infancy. How long did it take the US tax code to mutate into the disaster it is today? If Obamacare is already causing problems, what will it look like for the next generation? And the generation after that?

 

[OnePercenter]

Adverse selection is the main problem, but care givers refusing to take new Medicare/Medicaid patients is a very close second. Basically the ACA is increasing bankruptcy rates among the poor.

You mean the care givers that are owned by the insurance companies?

 

[OnePercenter]

I just don't see any realistic scenario that health care costs reverse coarse and end up saving families money on their health insurance. There are so many factors increasing costs and inefficiencies and so few scenarios that could reverse that trend. And like I keep pointing out, this law is still in it's infancy. How long did it take the US tax code to mutate into the disaster it is today? If Obamacare is already causing problems, what will it look like for the next generation? And the generation after that?

The cost increases are profiteering by medical insurance companies.

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm curious, Greenbeard...do you honestly think that premiums for healthcare insurance are going to go down for the Middle Class? I'm seeing people without subsidies having to sign up for plans with higher deductibles and less care in order to be able to afford the higher rates that insurance companies are now starting to hit them with.

Premiums are almost certainly never going to do down. Unless wages in the health sector (in which a lot of people are employed) go down first, or a lot of people in that sector get abruptly laid off.

The goal long term has to be to slow cost growth, get overall spending and premium growth in line with, and perhaps ultimately below, economic and wage growth.

There are two approaches to achieving that, perhaps incoherently, being tried at the same time. One promotes a more cohesive health care delivery system that eliminates much of the waste and duplication that has plagued the system for decades. The other promotes a market approach--which, yes, involves higher deductibles--to persuade people to be price sensitive in choosing services. I honestly don't know which approach is better, but they're both happening right now.

So you're admitting that Obama lied to us when he claimed that the ACA would lower healthcare premiums by $2,500 for Middle Class families?

Be honest, Greenbeard...the ACA was never about slowing cost growth...at it's heart it's income redistribution! It raises costs for one segment of society in order to pay for healthcare for another segment of society.

 

[Oldstyle]

Unless you're incredibly naive...or math challenged...it's obvious that the ACA numbers simply don't work.

 

[Greenbeard]

So you're admitting that Obama lied to us when he claimed that the ACA would lower healthcare premiums by $2,500 for Middle Class families?

Be honest, Greenbeard...the ACA was never about slowing cost growth...at it's heart it's income redistribution! It raises costs for one segment of society in order to pay for healthcare for another segment of society.

Of course it's about slowing cost growth. Insurers are competing in real markets, which has led them to get aggressive about cost containment for the first time in over a decade; providers are re-designing care to be more effective and more efficient; and patients are starting to get more price sensitive, meaning they're starting to shop for services.

It's not just that health care cost growth has hit all-time lows over the last five years, it's that there's no actually a foundation in place to attack cost growth in the long-term. That's a big deal.

Unless you're incredibly naive...or math challenged...it's obvious that the ACA numbers simply don't work.

We keep hearing this refrain, yet there's no indication it's true. It's now clear the initial ten-year costs of the ACA's coverage expansions (the CBO price tag used to sell the law) was overstated by about 30%.

Meanwhile, the offsetting drop in Medicare spending some folks asserted would never happen has happened. And then some.

The law is costing less and saving more than promised. Meanwhile the deficit has been dropping.

 

[fbj]

I wanna know why someone who is single and making only $10 an hour at the age of 24 is forced to get health insurance.

 

[Arianrhod]

I wanna know why someone who is single and making only $10 an hour at the age of 24 is forced to get health insurance.

Because he might get hit by a bus? Or because he doesn't understand that he's not "forced to get health insurance." He can opt out, pay a fine, and get nothing.

Or he can go here: Subsidy Calculator Widget and discover that at $10 an hour he's eligible for subsidies and/or Medicaid.

Good luck! Let us know how he makes out.

 

[fbj]

I wanna know why someone who is single and making only $10 an hour at the age of 24 is forced to get health insurance.

Because he might get hit by a bus? Or because he doesn't understand that he's not "forced to get health insurance." He can opt out, pay a fine, and get nothing.

Or he can go here: Subsidy Calculator Widget and discover that at $10 an hour he's eligible for subsidies and/or Medicaid.

Good luck! Let us know how he makes out.

$73 a month is too much money for someone making $10 an hour

 

[fbj]

I wanna know why someone who is single and making only $10 an hour at the age of 24 is forced to get health insurance.

Because he might get hit by a bus? Or because he doesn't understand that he's not "forced to get health insurance." He can opt out, pay a fine, and get nothing.

Or he can go here: Subsidy Calculator Widget and discover that at $10 an hour he's eligible for subsidies and/or Medicaid.

Good luck! Let us know how he makes out.

No one who makes $10 should be paying for insurance

Obama is the stupidest mutherfucker I ever laid on

 

[Roudy]

The biggest lie was the ACA bill itself. Naming and promoting the bill as the "Affordable Care Act" was a deliberate and disgusting lie pushed by Obama and his minions. All the other lies i.e. "$2500/year savings", "like your doctor, keep your doctor" were the lies Obama needed to tell to keep the big lie moving forward. And he had no problem lying to the American people over and over and over. That is what Socialists do.The goal was obviously two fold:

First and Foremost, Obama wanted to be the President that pushed through the Holy Grail of Socialism, 'Government Controlled Healthcare'. It gives government the mechanisms to invade virtually every aspect of American life through taxes, penalties, expansions of the law, etc.

Second, it extended coverage to the poorest in America but it did so at astronomical cost, clearly a contradiction of the intent of the bill. For God's sakes, the freakin WEBSITE healthcare.gov is going to cost us one hundred times original estimates, over a billion dollars!

The side effects of the ACA are only beginning to unfold and they are all bad. This is the lie upon which Obama's legacy will be defined. History will not be kind.

Personally I think the biggest lie was when Obama and Hillary got in front of the camera in national TV and blamed BenGhazi on a YouTube video. It's amazing how the media has assisted and covered up for this betrayal.

 

[Arianrhod]

Personally I think the biggest lie was when Obama and Hillary got in front of the camera in national TV and blamed BenGhazi on a YouTube video. It's amazing how the media has assisted and covered up for this betrayal.

Wow. It's like no one else on this entire board has thought about posting about Benghazi. You should consider posting this in one of the numerous forums where it will generate some traffic.

 

[Roudy]

Personally I think the biggest lie was when Obama and Hillary got in front of the camera in national TV and blamed BenGhazi on a YouTube video. It's amazing how the media has assisted and covered up for this betrayal.

Wow. It's like no one else on this entire board has thought about posting about Benghazi. You should consider posting this in one of the numerous forums where it will generate some traffic.

I mentioned it because from all the lies and betrayals by the Obama administration, to me, BenGhazi was the worst breach of public trust.

That, and hiring the IRS to go after the republicans should have put these criminals behind bars.

 

[Arianrhod]

Personally I think the biggest lie was when Obama and Hillary got in front of the camera in national TV and blamed BenGhazi on a YouTube video. It's amazing how the media has assisted and covered up for this betrayal.

Wow. It's like no one else on this entire board has thought about posting about Benghazi. You should consider posting this in one of the numerous forums where it will generate some traffic.

I mentioned it because from all the lies and betrayals by the Obama administration, to me, BenGhazi was the worst breach of public trust.

That, and hiring the IRS to go after the republicans should have put these criminals behind bars.

And here you are in the Obamacare forum discussing everything but Obamacare...

 

[Roudy]

I saw the thread in the active topics and I decided to comment.

Of course Obamacare is another of his big lies, everybody's premiums went up, people couldn't keep their doctors, and hospitals were dropping pre Obamacare plans like hot potatoes.

So which do you think Obama's biggest lie is?

 

[Arianrhod]

...everybody's premiums went up, people couldn't keep their doctors, and hospitals were dropping pre Obamacare plans like hot potatoes.

There now. You've repeated all of the talking points in a single post. If asked to prove any one of them, you'll either quote Breitbart or some blog or just run away.

Surprise me.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Health Care Reform was long overdue. The reasons for the PPACA were noble, the effort to lambaste it were essentially EVIL.

 

[fbj]

Who the fuck is excited to have Healthcare?

 

[Arianrhod]

Who the fuck is excited to have Healthcare?

Adults.