The Born Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act passed a couple days ago

[AvgGuyIA]

Actually the double murder rule does apply to someone who kills a pregnant woman. Just reflect back on the Peterson case where Peterson murdered his pregnant wife.

JoeB would acquit on the charge of killing the Peterson baby.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Why am I against this law?

Because Im against substituting religion and superstition for science and good medical practices.

Keep your stupid superstitions in your churches where they belong.

The pro-life position isn't inherently religious. You admitted this when you said that you were a pro-life atheist at one point. Why do you need this to stop being true so badly?

So your solution would be to try to save mangled fetuses if they are still flopping around after an abortion?

That's kind of an interesting proposal, as treatment for a Preemie often runs into the tens of thousands of dollars.

If its life obviously can't be saved, give it sedation, care and comfort until it dies like any HUMAN being would do for someone alive, but don't stick a forcep into it!

That isn't what this law calls for. It calls for them to treat it just like they treat a premature birth.

No, no, no. Doctors should be doing their damn jobs just like county clerks, hypocrite. If the baby can be saved after she supposedly become a human in your people's eyes, then save her like any other human. If not, then at least give her the same measure of dignity due to any human.

I don't think the argument was so much about outlawing abortion. The law was about murdering a live born baby outside the womb. But again, LAME TRY AT DEFLECTING.

First, that never happens.

Second, I really don't want religious idiots and politicians telling doctors how to do their jobs.

If it never happens then why are you fighting so hard against a law to make it stop happening? Do you even think about what you post?

Guy, we are happy to let you shut down the government over this.

We are happy to let you have another Sandra Fluke Moment. Maybe you can get Rush Limpballs to start screaming about "sluts" again.

We are happy to remind women that they will be reduced to breeding machines if you fools ever get your way on things.

You're going to insist that we shut the government down after you do so. Then again, you've already told us, in very open, black and white terms, that you're willing to disregard any facts or reason if they conflict with your agenda.

Fetuses aren't babies.

and frankly, I don't have an opinion on abortion one way or the other. I don't need one because I don't have a uterus.

I do realize as a purely practical matter, you can't make a woman be a mother if she doesn't want to.

You would have fit in quite nicely in Nazi Germany. They wouldn't call Jews humans either. It made it easier to "abort" them.

Hey now, that's not an accurate comparison at all. He just wants the state to define who's a person and who isn't so he can claim the authority to decide who lives and who dies for himself. He doesn't make any eugenic arguments for it. He just wants power over whether your baby takes her next breath.

Yeah, guy, good luck getting a conviction on that.

I know if I ever found my self on a jury, I'd vote to acquit, I don't care what bullshit evidence they came in with.

Even if a boyfriend punched a pregnant woman in the gut, killing her baby, you would acquit., apparently. Amazing how someone can be so fucking murderous in their desire to kill babies.

He's already explicitly stated that he thinks we need politically motivated jurors to counter laws he thinks are silly. He's literally admitted that he would use his position on the jury to push his larger agenda, whatever the evidence of the case he's been called to help determined be damned. Frankly I see little difference between him and the guys who got OJ off the hook.

Not just religious people , people with morales are against it.

If you look carefully, even he knows this particular talking point is merda tauri. He just needs it to be true so he repeats it as loudly and often as possible.

The left is always screaming that women can't get medical care without PP, so it's obvious that Obozocare is failing, and since there is no market for dead tissue, they are relying on butchering live babies and selling the body parts to help finance it...

Unborn babies have always been without human rights because human rights begin at birth. It's never been any different. We need to oppose this law because unwanted babies, whether unborn or born, have no human rights. Human rights begin when your mother loves you after you've been born. Off topic, did you hear about the war with those Eastasian bastards? We've been fighting them forever alongside our Eurasian allies. I hope we and our Eastasian partners kill every damn one of those Eurasian savages for the glory of Big Hill.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Listen, JoeB131, this would be a lot simpler if you stopped ignoring my previous request to give us your definition of "fetus". As it stands now, you're using the term for a born person anyone else would call a baby. It would clear up a lot of confusion to explain why you're doing so.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

So your solution would be to try to save mangled fetuses if they are still flopping around after an abortion?

That's kind of an interesting proposal, as treatment for a Preemie often runs into the tens of thousands of dollars.

If its life obviously can't be saved, give it sedation, care and comfort until it dies like any HUMAN being would do for someone alive, but don't stick a forcep into it!

That isn't what this law calls for. It calls for them to treat it just like they treat a premature birth.

And how is a premature birth treated? Does a premature birth get a scalpel stuck into it?

 

[Obiwan]

We're lost as a society, truly lost

Women have been having abortions since ancient times. Society will be just fine.

Joey...

I realize you can't buy rubbers with food stamps...

Need to borrow 50 cents????

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Now, here's the thing. Maybe you need to read what ancient civilizations actually did. Child sacrifice was actually a common thing. There is even a case of it in the Bible, where Jephthah the Gileadite sacrificed his daughter because God gave him a victory.

Another common practice was "exposing' children. - to leave them out in the cold until they died. And of course, women knew how to induce abortions and did.

Does a late-term baby that is aborted now feel less or more pain than babies did when they were killed in ancient times?

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Guy, I'm a pragmatist. The fact that you are too stupid to realize you are being played on this issue with doctored tapes and dishonest comments about viable babies really isn't my problem.

A late-term abortionist hardly ever lies about his practices?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

We're lost as a society, truly lost

Women have been having abortions since ancient times. Society will be just fine.

Joey...

I realize you can't buy rubbers with food stamps...

Need to borrow 50 cents????

NAME SOMETHING THAT SCARES A LIBERAL

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Well, no, guy, no woman suffers through 20+ weeks of pregnancy and then decides not to go through with it.

If a woman is having an abortion at 22 weeks, this is a baby she probably wanted, and they found out it had spina-bifida or down syndrome or some horrible disease.

Which is WHY these decisions should be left to the woman and her doctor.

We don't really know at all how many late-term perfectly healthy babies are aborted. For sure, there are many.

 

[Dana7360]

I thought abortion was not allowed once pregnancy has progressed beyond certain stage.

Exactly. Once the fetus is viable it's illegal to terminate a pregnancy but with some exceptions.

If there's a serious problem with the pregnancy such as the fetus is deformed or it doesn't have a brain. Things like that. Or if the health or life of the woman is in jeopardy.

It's illegal to abort at that stage if none of the legal exceptions don't exist.

I'll just say that if a woman doesn't want to be a mother she's already terminated the pregnancy months prior. What's terminated at such late stages are wanted pregnancies that went wrong or put the woman's life or health in jeopardy.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Why am I against this law?

Because Im against substituting religion and superstition for science and good medical practices.

Keep your stupid superstitions in your churches where they belong.

The law is based on morality and has nothing to do with religion or superstition.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Again, keep your superstitions in your church, let medical professionals make medical decisions.

An abortionist has a conflict of interest unlike all other medical professionals. Most of his practice depends upon doing as many abortions as possible, and he or she may have personal beliefs to further abortion that he follows.

 

[koshergrl]

House votes to defund Planned Parenthood, but will that help avert a shutdown?

Under this new act, doctors could be charged with up to five years in prison for killing a newborn after a failed abortion. 248 voted for it with 177 against. Voting was almost entirely by party lines, with five Democrats supporting the bill and no Republicans opposing it. President Obama has vowed to veto it. There is a high likelihood that Democrats will filibuster it if the veto fails.

Goes to show you just how depraved the Democrats are. Some of them even claim to be Christian and belong to the Catholic Church. Murder is murder whether one is 5 minutes of age or 90 years of age. It's still a viable human being that is being murdered.

Care4All pretended for AGES to be a Catholic in good standing, while she militantly went forth daily on the internet to battle for baby killing.

 

[Dana7360]

ROFLMNAO!

This dumbass is in here crying about THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED BABIES... and its only solution is to murder pre-born children, because the alternative deals it out of easy trim and the RESPONSIBILITY OF RAISING HIS UNWANTED CHILDREN... and IT NEEDS TO BLAME RELIGION FOR OF THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED CHILDREN AND REASONABLE PEOPLE RECOGNIZING THAT TO DEVALUE THE PRE-BORN HUMAN DEVALUES ALL HUMANS.

Guy, you work on the assumption that women will not get abortions because you say so. it makes me wonder if you have ever had a real live encounter with a naked lady.

Women are going to have abortions regardless of what the law is. they had abortions before Roe v. Wade. The birth rate did NOT DROP in 1973. Before Roe, doctors performed abortions and wrote something else down on the chart.

Here's a hint... 5000 years ago, it was EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN. And 5000 years ago, PEOPLE KNEW THAT IT WAS EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN.

So... Laws were made which made it IMPERATIVE TO RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS! Those laws came down from the authorities, whose power was based in RELIGION. That the power that outlawed pawning your kids off to others was based in RELIGION, DOES NOT MAKE THE REASON FOR THE LAW: RELIGIOUS.

Now, here's the thing. Maybe you need to read what ancient civilizations actually did. Child sacrifice was actually a common thing. There is even a case of it in the Bible, where Jephthah the Gileadite sacrificed his daughter because God gave him a victory.

Another common practice was "exposing' children. - to leave them out in the cold until they died. And of course, women knew how to induce abortions and did.

So... Laws were made which made it IMPERATIVE TO RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS! Those laws came down from the authorities, whose power was based in RELIGION. That the power that outlawed pawning your kids off to others was based in RELIGION, DOES NOT MAKE THE REASON FOR THE LAW: RELIGIOUS.

Funny you should mention that. the bible allows you to sell your daughter into slavery.

Exodus
21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

The bible also says you should kill your children if they mouth off to you.

For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. -- Leviticus 20:9

That is, unless you need to claim that the recognition of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS EXCLUSIVELY RELIGIOUS... which would be a pretty silly thing for a Pro-Life Atheist to claim. (And anyone else... for that matter... but particularly for those idiots.)

Actually, the Bible says nothing about abortion. In fact, the bible considered causing an abortion to only be worthy of a fine.

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

Actually yes, the bible does mention abortion.

The bible tells how to induce an abortion.

So the christians are lying when they use their bible to excuse their need to control women and force them to be incubators for a pregnancy she doesn't want.


Numbers 5:11-31 Revised Standard Version
11 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 12 Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If any man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him, 13 if a man has had intercourse with her but it is hidden from her husband, so that she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her since she was not caught in the act; 14 if a spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself; or if a spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself; 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. And he shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 Then the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord; 17 the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 The priest shall set the woman before the Lord, dishevel the woman's hair, and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. In his own hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, "If no man has lain with you, if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while under your husband's authority, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband's authority, if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has had intercourse with you," 21 —let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse and say to the woman—"the Lord make you an execration and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your uterus drop, your womb discharge; 22 now may this water that brings the curse enter your bowels and make your womb discharge, your uterus drop!" And the woman shall say, "Amen. Amen." 23 Then the priest shall put these curses in writing, and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 He shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her and cause bitter pain. 25 The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman's hand, and shall elevate the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar; 26 and the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and turn it into smoke on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 When he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall discharge, her uterus drop, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be immune and be able to conceive children. 29 This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, while under her husband's authority, goes astray and defiles herself, 30 or when a spirit of jealousy comes on a man and he is jealous of his wife; then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall apply this entire law to her. 31 The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

ROFLMNAO!

This dumbass is in here crying about THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED BABIES... and its only solution is to murder pre-born children, because the alternative deals it out of easy trim and the RESPONSIBILITY OF RAISING HIS UNWANTED CHILDREN... and IT NEEDS TO BLAME RELIGION FOR OF THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED CHILDREN AND REASONABLE PEOPLE RECOGNIZING THAT TO DEVALUE THE PRE-BORN HUMAN DEVALUES ALL HUMANS.

Guy, you work on the assumption that women will not get abortions because you say so. it makes me wonder if you have ever had a real live encounter with a naked lady.

Women are going to have abortions regardless of what the law is. they had abortions before Roe v. Wade. The birth rate did NOT DROP in 1973. Before Roe, doctors performed abortions and wrote something else down on the chart.

Here's a hint... 5000 years ago, it was EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN. And 5000 years ago, PEOPLE KNEW THAT IT WAS EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN.

So... Laws were made which made it IMPERATIVE TO RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS! Those laws came down from the authorities, whose power was based in RELIGION. That the power that outlawed pawning your kids off to others was based in RELIGION, DOES NOT MAKE THE REASON FOR THE LAW: RELIGIOUS.

Now, here's the thing. Maybe you need to read what ancient civilizations actually did. Child sacrifice was actually a common thing. There is even a case of it in the Bible, where Jephthah the Gileadite sacrificed his daughter because God gave him a victory.

Another common practice was "exposing' children. - to leave them out in the cold until they died. And of course, women knew how to induce abortions and did.

So... Laws were made which made it IMPERATIVE TO RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS! Those laws came down from the authorities, whose power was based in RELIGION. That the power that outlawed pawning your kids off to others was based in RELIGION, DOES NOT MAKE THE REASON FOR THE LAW: RELIGIOUS.

Funny you should mention that. the bible allows you to sell your daughter into slavery.

Exodus
21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

The bible also says you should kill your children if they mouth off to you.

For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. -- Leviticus 20:9

That is, unless you need to claim that the recognition of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS EXCLUSIVELY RELIGIOUS... which would be a pretty silly thing for a Pro-Life Atheist to claim. (And anyone else... for that matter... but particularly for those idiots.)

Actually, the Bible says nothing about abortion. In fact, the bible considered causing an abortion to only be worthy of a fine.

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

Actually yes, the bible does mention abortion.

The bible tells how to induce an abortion.

So the christians are lying when they use their bible to excuse their need to control women and force them to be incubators for a pregnancy she doesn't want.


Numbers 5:11-31 Revised Standard Version
11 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 12 Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If any man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him, 13 if a man has had intercourse with her but it is hidden from her husband, so that she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her since she was not caught in the act; 14 if a spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself; or if a spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself; 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. And he shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 Then the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord; 17 the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 The priest shall set the woman before the Lord, dishevel the woman's hair, and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. In his own hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, "If no man has lain with you, if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while under your husband's authority, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband's authority, if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has had intercourse with you," 21 —let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse and say to the woman—"the Lord make you an execration and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your uterus drop, your womb discharge; 22 now may this water that brings the curse enter your bowels and make your womb discharge, your uterus drop!" And the woman shall say, "Amen. Amen." 23 Then the priest shall put these curses in writing, and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 He shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her and cause bitter pain. 25 The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman's hand, and shall elevate the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar; 26 and the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and turn it into smoke on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 When he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall discharge, her uterus drop, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be immune and be able to conceive children. 29 This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, while under her husband's authority, goes astray and defiles herself, 30 or when a spirit of jealousy comes on a man and he is jealous of his wife; then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall apply this entire law to her. 31 The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.

Yes... So all of you 5000 year old Jewish Woman, take heed, where you've defiled yourself.

Of course, I would suggest that instead, simply choose wisely with regard to with whom, when and where you engage in the behavior that is designed for no other purpose than the conception of children. That way, when you're not wanting a child, ya won't conceive one through your willful and wanton behavior, and need to defile yourself again... by murdering your child.

Just sayin'... .

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

ROFLMNAO!

This dumbass is in here crying about THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED BABIES... and its only solution is to murder pre-born children, because the alternative deals it out of easy trim and the RESPONSIBILITY OF RAISING HIS UNWANTED CHILDREN... and IT NEEDS TO BLAME RELIGION FOR OF THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED CHILDREN AND REASONABLE PEOPLE RECOGNIZING THAT TO DEVALUE THE PRE-BORN HUMAN DEVALUES ALL HUMANS.

Guy, you work on the assumption that women will not get abortions because you say so. it makes me wonder if you have ever had a real live encounter with a naked lady.

Women are going to have abortions regardless of what the law is. they had abortions before Roe v. Wade. The birth rate did NOT DROP in 1973. Before Roe, doctors performed abortions and wrote something else down on the chart.

Here's a hint... 5000 years ago, it was EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN. And 5000 years ago, PEOPLE KNEW THAT IT WAS EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN.

So... Laws were made which made it IMPERATIVE TO RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS! Those laws came down from the authorities, whose power was based in RELIGION. That the power that outlawed pawning your kids off to others was based in RELIGION, DOES NOT MAKE THE REASON FOR THE LAW: RELIGIOUS.

Now, here's the thing. Maybe you need to read what ancient civilizations actually did. Child sacrifice was actually a common thing. There is even a case of it in the Bible, where Jephthah the Gileadite sacrificed his daughter because God gave him a victory.

Another common practice was "exposing' children. - to leave them out in the cold until they died. And of course, women knew how to induce abortions and did.

So... Laws were made which made it IMPERATIVE TO RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS! Those laws came down from the authorities, whose power was based in RELIGION. That the power that outlawed pawning your kids off to others was based in RELIGION, DOES NOT MAKE THE REASON FOR THE LAW: RELIGIOUS.

Funny you should mention that. the bible allows you to sell your daughter into slavery.

Exodus
21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

The bible also says you should kill your children if they mouth off to you.

For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. -- Leviticus 20:9

That is, unless you need to claim that the recognition of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS EXCLUSIVELY RELIGIOUS... which would be a pretty silly thing for a Pro-Life Atheist to claim. (And anyone else... for that matter... but particularly for those idiots.)

Actually, the Bible says nothing about abortion. In fact, the bible considered causing an abortion to only be worthy of a fine.

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

Actually yes, the bible does mention abortion.

The bible tells how to induce an abortion.

So the christians are lying when they use their bible to excuse their need to control women and force them to be incubators for a pregnancy she doesn't want.


Numbers 5:11-31 Revised Standard Version
11 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 12 Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If any man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him, 13 if a man has had intercourse with her but it is hidden from her husband, so that she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her since she was not caught in the act; 14 if a spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself; or if a spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself; 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. And he shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 Then the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord; 17 the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 The priest shall set the woman before the Lord, dishevel the woman's hair, and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. In his own hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, "If no man has lain with you, if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while under your husband's authority, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband's authority, if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has had intercourse with you," 21 —let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse and say to the woman—"the Lord make you an execration and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your uterus drop, your womb discharge; 22 now may this water that brings the curse enter your bowels and make your womb discharge, your uterus drop!" And the woman shall say, "Amen. Amen." 23 Then the priest shall put these curses in writing, and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 He shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her and cause bitter pain. 25 The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman's hand, and shall elevate the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar; 26 and the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and turn it into smoke on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 When he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall discharge, her uterus drop, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be immune and be able to conceive children. 29 This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, while under her husband's authority, goes astray and defiles herself, 30 or when a spirit of jealousy comes on a man and he is jealous of his wife; then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall apply this entire law to her. 31 The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.

The Bible and Christian teaching are irrelevant to the question of abortion, which is itself not what the law is about. The law is about infanticide immediately after birth. You could discover that for yourself if you read the article in the OP. You and Joe don't want to discuss that so you're trying your damndest to make it about religion and aborting disabled fetuses.

Now, if you're done trying to divert the discussion to every topic but the subject at hand, how about we return to it? 248 people voted for it. 177 voted against it. Obama has made it clear he intends to veto. The Democratic party is preparing to filibuster it if the veto fails. Personally I can see the filibuster working, but I have little doubt that the Democrats will take JoeB131's position and shut down the government to kill this bill if it comes to that.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Now, if you're done trying to divert the discussion to every topic but the subject at hand, how about we return to it? 248 people voted for it. 177 voted against it. Obama has made it clear he intends to veto. The Democratic party is preparing to filibuster it if the veto fails. Personally I can see the filibuster working, but I have little doubt that the Democrats will take JoeB131's position and shut down the government to kill this bill if it comes to that.

That's 177 sick puppies.

How can they live with themselves?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Why am I against this law?

Because Im against substituting religion and superstition for science and good medical practices.

Keep your stupid superstitions in your churches where they belong.

The pro-life position isn't inherently religious. You admitted this when you said that you were a pro-life atheist at one point. Why do you need this to stop being true so badly?

So your solution would be to try to save mangled fetuses if they are still flopping around after an abortion?

That's kind of an interesting proposal, as treatment for a Preemie often runs into the tens of thousands of dollars.

If its life obviously can't be saved, give it sedation, care and comfort until it dies like any HUMAN being would do for someone alive, but don't stick a forcep into it!

That isn't what this law calls for. It calls for them to treat it just like they treat a premature birth.

No, no, no. Doctors should be doing their damn jobs just like county clerks, hypocrite. If the baby can be saved after she supposedly become a human in your people's eyes, then save her like any other human. If not, then at least give her the same measure of dignity due to any human.

I don't think the argument was so much about outlawing abortion. The law was about murdering a live born baby outside the womb. But again, LAME TRY AT DEFLECTING.

First, that never happens.

Second, I really don't want religious idiots and politicians telling doctors how to do their jobs.

If it never happens then why are you fighting so hard against a law to make it stop happening? Do you even think about what you post?

Guy, we are happy to let you shut down the government over this.

We are happy to let you have another Sandra Fluke Moment. Maybe you can get Rush Limpballs to start screaming about "sluts" again.

We are happy to remind women that they will be reduced to breeding machines if you fools ever get your way on things.

You're going to insist that we shut the government down after you do so. Then again, you've already told us, in very open, black and white terms, that you're willing to disregard any facts or reason if they conflict with your agenda.

Good stuff...

Joe is just a common, garden variety, lowly Relativist. Nothing more... .

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

I thought abortion was not allowed once pregnancy has progressed beyond certain stage.

Exactly. Once the fetus is viable it's illegal to terminate a pregnancy but with some exceptions.

If there's a serious problem with the pregnancy such as the fetus is deformed or it doesn't have a brain. Things like that. Or if the health or life of the woman is in jeopardy.

It's illegal to abort at that stage if none of the legal exceptions don't exist.

I'll just say that if a woman doesn't want to be a mother she's already terminated the pregnancy months prior. What's terminated at such late stages are wanted pregnancies that went wrong or put the woman's life or health in jeopardy.

Then there's no problem with the law. And there's no reason to oppose it.

 

[koshergrl]

ROFLMNAO!

This dumbass is in here crying about THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED BABIES... and its only solution is to murder pre-born children, because the alternative deals it out of easy trim and the RESPONSIBILITY OF RAISING HIS UNWANTED CHILDREN... and IT NEEDS TO BLAME RELIGION FOR OF THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED CHILDREN AND REASONABLE PEOPLE RECOGNIZING THAT TO DEVALUE THE PRE-BORN HUMAN DEVALUES ALL HUMANS.

Guy, you work on the assumption that women will not get abortions because you say so. it makes me wonder if you have ever had a real live encounter with a naked lady.

Women are going to have abortions regardless of what the law is. they had abortions before Roe v. Wade. The birth rate did NOT DROP in 1973. Before Roe, doctors performed abortions and wrote something else down on the chart.

Here's a hint... 5000 years ago, it was EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN. And 5000 years ago, PEOPLE KNEW THAT IT WAS EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN.

So... Laws were made which made it IMPERATIVE TO RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS! Those laws came down from the authorities, whose power was based in RELIGION. That the power that outlawed pawning your kids off to others was based in RELIGION, DOES NOT MAKE THE REASON FOR THE LAW: RELIGIOUS.

Now, here's the thing. Maybe you need to read what ancient civilizations actually did. Child sacrifice was actually a common thing. There is even a case of it in the Bible, where Jephthah the Gileadite sacrificed his daughter because God gave him a victory.

Another common practice was "exposing' children. - to leave them out in the cold until they died. And of course, women knew how to induce abortions and did.

So... Laws were made which made it IMPERATIVE TO RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS! Those laws came down from the authorities, whose power was based in RELIGION. That the power that outlawed pawning your kids off to others was based in RELIGION, DOES NOT MAKE THE REASON FOR THE LAW: RELIGIOUS.

Funny you should mention that. the bible allows you to sell your daughter into slavery.

Exodus
21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

The bible also says you should kill your children if they mouth off to you.

For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. -- Leviticus 20:9

That is, unless you need to claim that the recognition of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS EXCLUSIVELY RELIGIOUS... which would be a pretty silly thing for a Pro-Life Atheist to claim. (And anyone else... for that matter... but particularly for those idiots.)

Actually, the Bible says nothing about abortion. In fact, the bible considered causing an abortion to only be worthy of a fine.

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

Actually yes, the bible does mention abortion.

The bible tells how to induce an abortion.

So the christians are lying when they use their bible to excuse their need to control women and force them to be incubators for a pregnancy she doesn't want.


Numbers 5:11-31 Revised Standard Version
11 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 12 Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If any man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him, 13 if a man has had intercourse with her but it is hidden from her husband, so that she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her since she was not caught in the act; 14 if a spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself; or if a spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself; 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. And he shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 Then the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord; 17 the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 The priest shall set the woman before the Lord, dishevel the woman's hair, and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. In his own hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, "If no man has lain with you, if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while under your husband's authority, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband's authority, if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has had intercourse with you," 21 —let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse and say to the woman—"the Lord make you an execration and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your uterus drop, your womb discharge; 22 now may this water that brings the curse enter your bowels and make your womb discharge, your uterus drop!" And the woman shall say, "Amen. Amen." 23 Then the priest shall put these curses in writing, and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 He shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her and cause bitter pain. 25 The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman's hand, and shall elevate the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar; 26 and the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and turn it into smoke on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 When he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall discharge, her uterus drop, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be immune and be able to conceive children. 29 This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, while under her husband's authority, goes astray and defiles herself, 30 or when a spirit of jealousy comes on a man and he is jealous of his wife; then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall apply this entire law to her. 31 The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.

And that means we should go ahead and allow huge corporations and fake doctors to abuse and kill women, and murder of infants.

Got it.