The Born Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act passed a couple days ago

[JoeB131]

Listen, JoeB131, this would be a lot simpler if you stopped ignoring my previous request to give us your definition of "fetus". As it stands now, you're using the term for a born person anyone else would call a baby. It would clear up a lot of confusion to explain why you're doing so.

No confusion at all. What goes on in an abortion clinic is none of your fucking business. Sit down, shut up and go read your Bible.

The pro-life position isn't inherently religious. You admitted this when you said that you were a pro-life atheist at one point. Why do you need this to stop being true so badly?

I would say that I was suffering from a odd bit of Vestigal Catholicism I finally got over when I realized this was an issue the Rich use to keep people voting against their own economic interests. NOw I simply want to see the Pro-Life movement CRUSHED and disheartened.

No, no, no. Doctors should be doing their damn jobs just like county clerks, hypocrite. If the baby can be saved after she supposedly become a human in your people's eyes, then save her like any other human. If not, then at least give her the same measure of dignity due to any human.

Doctors ARE doing their jobs. THeir jobs is to rid their patients of an unwanted parasite.

If it never happens then why are you fighting so hard against a law to make it stop happening? Do you even think about what you post?

Don't be dense. This isn't about the imaginary fetus that is still flopping around in the medical waste bin, this is about getting religious nuts between doctors and their patients.

Here's my basic rule on this. If the Anti-Choice nuts are for it, I'm against it. I don't care what it is.

 

[JoeB131]

He's already explicitly stated that he thinks we need politically motivated jurors to counter laws he thinks are silly. He's literally admitted that he would use his position on the jury to push his larger agenda, whatever the evidence of the case he's been called to help determined be damned. Frankly I see little difference between him and the guys who got OJ off the hook.

You mean the black folks who got tired of being routinely abused by the LAPD and decided to do something about it.

Oh, yeah, here's the thing. Fuhrman really did say the N-word. Dr. Fung really did mishandle DNA evidence. Did OJ Kill those people/ Probably. Did the inept cops and prosecutors prove it? Nope.

Hey now, that's not an accurate comparison at all. He just wants the state to define who's a person and who isn't so he can claim the authority to decide who lives and who dies for himself. He doesn't make any eugenic arguments for it. He just wants power over whether your baby takes her next breath.

Uh, no. What I want is for religous people to mind their own fucking business. I don't go into your church and start ranting at you about why your religion is a lie, you don't get into my business and tell me what kind of birth control I should use. Sounds like a pretty reasonable thing.

 

[JoeB131]

The law is based on morality and has nothing to do with religion or superstition.

It's not based on morality.


It's based on making a medical procedure a hassle.

As i said in the begining of the thread, the kind of fetus you are talking about, if it is still flopping around on the table, is already damaged from the abortion and has serious genetic defects to start with. You really aren't doing it any favor by calling in a medical crisis team to keep it alive for five more minutes.

You are, however, forcing abortion clinics to spend a lot of money on equipment they don't need for what they are trying to do, which is kind of the point here.

An abortionist has a conflict of interest unlike all other medical professionals. Most of his practice depends upon doing as many abortions as possible, and he or she may have personal beliefs to further abortion that he follows.

The same could be said about Lasik Surgeons or guys who install lap-bands or tummy tucks...

But no one threatens to murder those guys because an Imaginary Fairy in the Sky said to.

 

[JoeB131]

Abortionists are the scum of the medical world. They aren't allowed admitting rights in real hospitals for a reason. Most of them are disgraced, un licensed, addicted, monsters.

OH, I thought Hospitals didn't give them admitting right because nuts like you would start bombing hospitals.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

No confusion at all. What goes on in an abortion clinic is none of your fucking business. Sit down, shut up and go read your Bible.

I'm as much of a Christian as you were a sergeant, guy.

I would say that I was suffering from a odd bit of Vestigal Catholicism I finally got over when I realized this was an issue the Rich use to keep people voting against their own economic interests. NOw I simply want to see the Pro-Life movement CRUSHED and disheartened.

However, you were more of a Christian than I ever was. I consciously rejected that shit at five.

How far will you take your opposition to human rights, btw? You didn't answer the other two times I asked you. You used to stop at birth. Now you're extending it to newborns. Toddlers? Children? This is why I don't associate with you people in person. If you're willing to butcher your own infant then what guarantee do I have that you're going to respect my right to life?

Doctors ARE doing their jobs. THeir jobs is to rid their patients of an unwanted parasite.

Again, this isn't about abortion, regardless of how hard you try to change the subject. This is about infanticide. The baby is outside of the mother's body. The umbilical cord is cut. The doctor is going to kill her anyway.

Don't be dense. This isn't about the imaginary fetus that is still flopping around in the medical waste bin, this is about getting religious nuts between doctors and their patients.

Here's my basic rule on this. If the Anti-Choice nuts are for it, I'm against it. I don't care what it is.

Let's see what else I'm for:
Unconditional welfare.
Raising corporate taxes.
Universal healthcare.
The right to food, water, and medical treatment.
Foreign aid.
The criminalization of male and female infant genital mutilation.
Treating Latin American immigrants as war refugees and offering unconditional asylum.

Against all of that too?

He's already explicitly stated that he thinks we need politically motivated jurors to counter laws he thinks are silly. He's literally admitted that he would use his position on the jury to push his larger agenda, whatever the evidence of the case he's been called to help determined be damned. Frankly I see little difference between him and the guys who got OJ off the hook.

You mean the black folks who got tired of being routinely abused by the LAPD and decided to do something about it.

Oh, yeah, here's the thing. Fuhrman really did say the N-word. Dr. Fung really did mishandle DNA evidence. Did OJ Kill those people/ Probably. Did the inept cops and prosecutors prove it? Nope.

I mean more like the white jurors in the South who would hang a black guy to get the white guy out of trouble. That was their agenda, evidence be damned. You very explicitly stated that you would follow in their footsteps.

Hey now, that's not an accurate comparison at all. He just wants the state to define who's a person and who isn't so he can claim the authority to decide who lives and who dies for himself. He doesn't make any eugenic arguments for it. He just wants power over whether your baby takes her next breath.

Uh, no. What I want is for religous people to mind their own fucking business. I don't go into your church and start ranting at you about why your religion is a lie, you don't get into my business and tell me what kind of birth control I should use. Sounds like a pretty reasonable thing.[/QUOTE]If your argument requires you to lie to yourself, then it's probably not a very good argument. Read this very closely. I. Do. Not. Have. A. Religion. Want me to piss on a Bible? I'd use a Qur'an but I know you would go apeshit.

 

[JoeB131]

Why would your imaginary sky pixie have a problem with people killing children?

What is an imaginary Sky Pixie? (Besides a figment of your diluted imagination...)

You know, it's something in the sky you all pray to because a 2000 year old book of fairy tales tells you to.

He does shit like tell assholes to bomb abortion clinics and retarded presidents to invade Iraq.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm as much of a Christian as you were a sergeant, guy.

Wow, so you really don't have an argument, so let's attack his military record.

Religious nuts are sooooo funny.

Hey, guy, I totally believe you are part of the same military that enlisted Hasan, Manning and Bergdahl. Back in my day, we used to have "Standards", though..

How far will you take your opposition to human rights, btw? You didn't answer the other two times I asked you. You used to stop at birth. Now you're extending it to newborns. Toddlers? Children? This is why I don't associate with you people in person. If you're willing to butcher your own infant then what guarantee do I have that you're going to respect my right to life?

I'm not extending anything to "newborns'. The results of a botched abortion isn't a "newborn". It's still medical waste, just medical waste that hasn't stopped flopping around yet.

Again, this isn't about abortion, regardless of how hard you try to change the subject. This is about infanticide. The baby is outside of the mother's body. The umbilical cord is cut. The doctor is going to kill her anyway.

Well, I hope so. That's what the lady came in for. Seriously, you just can't get good help anymore.

(Oh, I've moved on to outright mocking you....)

Let's see what else I'm for:

I don't care what else you are for. YOu are for letting the religious nuts dictate medical policy. That disqualifies you from anything else.

 

[daws101]

it hasn't passed in the senate .....

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Why would your imaginary sky pixie have a problem with people killing children?

What is an imaginary Sky Pixie? (Besides a figment of your deluded imagination...)

You know, ...

Yes... A "Sky Pixie is a figment of your deluded imagination.

Such is fairly typical of a perverse mind and like everything else about you, your perverse mind is no exception.

 

[JoeB131]

If your argument requires you to lie to yourself, then it's probably not a very good argument. Read this very closely. I. Do. Not. Have. A. Religion. Want me to piss on a Bible? I'd use a Qur'an but I know you would go apeshit.

I'd never piss on a bible. That's disrespectful.

I just wouldn't use it as a guide for good medical practices.

Point isn't what you believe, because most religious nuts kind of treat the bible like a software agreement. THey just click "I agree' without reading it.

The point is, you are willing to let the religious nuts tell a doctor and a patient how they should conduct their business.

The problem is not that there are tons of these fetuses that fall out in the middle of an abortion flopping around like a fish. That doesn't happen.

The goal here is like the regulations on clinic parking lots or hallways or sticking a wand up her hoo-haa before you let her get the abortion. It's about making the process more difficult.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The law is based on morality and has nothing to do with religion or superstition.

It's not based on morality.

LOL! That's not only false... it is laughably false.

There seems to be absolutely no bottom to your ignorance.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes... A "Sky Pixie is a figment of your deluded imagination.

Such is fairly typical of a perverse mind and like everything else about you, your perverse mind is no exception.

NO, guy, Sky Pixies are what you all believe in.

I know there isn't a God. I tested it when I was 20. I said, "God, Please let my mom's cancer get better."

It didn't.

No God.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

If your argument requires you to lie to yourself, then it's probably not a very good argument. Read this very closely. I. Do. Not. Have. A. Religion. Want me to piss on a Bible? I'd use a Qur'an but I know you would go apeshit.

I'd never piss on a bible. That's disrespectful.

I just wouldn't use it as a guide for good medical practices.

No?

So you wouldn't follow the Bibles guidance in the eating of shell fish and Kosher meats?

LOL!

Then for 99.999999~% of human history you wouldn't have lasted long... . As that medical guidance lead people away from deadly bacteria.

Again... your would-be 'position' simply defines you as what has long been known in greater nature as "FOOD!".

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I'm as much of a Christian as you were a sergeant, guy.

Wow, so you really don't have an argument, so let's attack his military record.

See, I explained that in my message. Your behavior makes it clear to me that you don't even have a military record. You would have had at least a little integrity beat into you if you did. Again, I'm not a Christian. In fact, let's take the blasphemy challenge real quick. I deny the Holy Spirit and the crock of lies that is the Bible.

Hey, guy, I totally believe you are part of the same military that enlisted Hasan, Manning and Bergdahl. Back in my day, we used to have "Standards", though..

The military has always had shitbags. That's why we have Fort Leavenworth. I still hold each of those guys to a higher standard than you, though. As big a fuck up as each of them was, at least they didn't pretend to be something they weren't.

I'm not extending anything to "newborns'. The results of a botched abortion isn't a "newborn". It's still medical waste, just medical waste that hasn't stopped flopping around yet.

I asked you this question about fifteen pages ago. It's about fucking time you stopped dodging it. Can we agree that your definition of "fetus" is "unwanted baby" then? I'll ask you my most important question from that again: What evidence do I have that you wouldn't make an attempt on my life if you could and call my corpse medical waste? I'll keep asking for another fifteen pages until you man up and answer me.

Well, I hope so. That's what the lady came in for. Seriously, you just can't get good help anymore.

(Oh, I've moved on to outright mocking you....)

It's not like you ever attempted to participate in the discussion in a serious manner in the first place. You've been trying hard to derail it ever since you first skimmed the OP.

Let's see what else I'm for:

I don't care what else you are for. YOu are for letting the religious nuts dictate medical policy. That disqualifies you from anything else.[/QUOTE]What does that even mean?

 

[daws101]

The law is based on morality and has nothing to do with religion or superstition.

It's not based on morality.

LOL! That's not only false... it is laughably false.

There seems to be absolutely no bottom to your ignorance.

false! it is based on an extremely religiously bias interpretation of morality

Morality is a man-made concept.
Morality is a man-made concept that is defined by the society you live in; it is subjective. There is nothing called morality in nature. You cannot observe morality or test it in a laboratory. There is no absolute "morality."

Many religious fanatics have tried to prove that morality is an absolute, just like God is real. They have even developed philosophies to prove it, e.G., metaphysics, and epistemology, which use meaningless circular propositions to prove their points. They use word games to prove their points. Both assume that knowledge, morality, Good and Evil exist 'a priori'.

What does 'a priori' mean: 'a priori' knowledge, in Western philosophy since the time of Immanuel Kant, knowledge that is independent of all particular experiences, as opposed to a posteriori knowledge, which derives from experience. The Latin phrases a priori (“from what is before”) and a posteriori (“from what is after”) were used in philosophy originally to distinguish between arguments from causes and arguments from effects.

Even murdering or killing humans is not an absolute; it is societal, e.G., killing in war is OK, killing someone attacking you with deadly force where you are in fear of your life is OK.



Is morality subjective?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Yes... A "Sky Pixie is a figment of your deluded imagination.

Such is fairly typical of a perverse mind and like everything else about you, your perverse mind is no exception.

NO, guy, Sky Pixies are what you all believe in.

So you're qualified to tell me what I believe in?

LOL! That's HYSTERICAL! Given that you're not even qualified to tell me what you believe in.

Suffice it to say I am not a believer in any Sky Pixie. And you are woefully unqualified to test me on that, as you prove post after post, day in and day out... .

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

The law is based on morality and has nothing to do with religion or superstition.

It's not based on morality.

LOL! That's not only false... it is laughably false.

There seems to be absolutely no bottom to your ignorance.

false! it is based on an extremely religiously bias interpretation of morality

Morality is a man-made concept.
Morality is a man-made concept that is defined by the society you live in; it is subjective. There is nothing called morality in nature. You cannot observe morality or test it in a laboratory. There is no absolute "morality."

Many religious fanatics have tried to prove that morality is an absolute, just like God is real. They have even developed philosophies to prove it, e.G., metaphysics, and epistemology, which use meaningless circular propositions to prove their points. They use word games to prove their points. Both assume that knowledge, morality, Good and Evil exist 'a priori'.

What does 'a priori' mean: 'a priori' knowledge, in Western philosophy since the time of Immanuel Kant, knowledge that is independent of all particular experiences, as opposed to a posteriori knowledge, which derives from experience. The Latin phrases a priori (“from what is before”) and a posteriori (“from what is after”) were used in philosophy originally to distinguish between arguments from causes and arguments from effects.

Even murdering or killing humans is not an absolute; it is societal, e.G., killing in war is OK, killing someone attacking you with deadly force where you are in fear of your life is OK.



Is morality subjective?

You literally have to deny the very concept of morality to make your case...

Yes... A "Sky Pixie is a figment of your deluded imagination.

Such is fairly typical of a perverse mind and like everything else about you, your perverse mind is no exception.

NO, guy, Sky Pixies are what you all believe in.

So you're qualified to tell me what I believe in?

LOL! That's HYSTERICAL! Given that you're not even qualified to tell me what you believe in.

Suffice it to say I am not a believer in any Sky Pixie. And you are woefully unqualified to test me on that, as you prove post after post, day in and day out... .

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

He's still insisting that I'm a Christian after being told no less than four times in this one thread, AND admitting that he knows I'm not pages ago. His argument rests on that assumption. He needs to convince himself that it's true for everything else to fall into place.

Looks like I hurt his feelings calling out his stolen valor act btw. He's gonna report me to the mods for that now. :'(

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Morality is a man-made concept.

Morality is nothing more than the soundly reasoned distinction between that which is sound behavior and that which is not... based upon the empirical study of Natural Law; which is to say God's Law as defined by the laws God set forth to govern human behavior.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Morality is a man-made concept.

Morality is nothing more than the soundly reasoned distinction between that which is sound behavior and that which is not... based upon the empirical study of Natural Law; which is to say God's Law as defined by the laws God set forth to govern human behavior.

That doesn't matter though. They need to deny the existence of objective morality and so they do. That doesn't mean they won't use the concept for their own purposes, however. It just means they get to pick and choose when it's allowed to come into play.

 

[daws101]

The law is based on morality and has nothing to do with religion or superstition.

It's not based on morality.

LOL! That's not only false... it is laughably false.

There seems to be absolutely no bottom to your ignorance.

false! it is based on an extremely religiously bias interpretation of morality

Morality is a man-made concept.
Morality is a man-made concept that is defined by the society you live in; it is subjective. There is nothing called morality in nature. You cannot observe morality or test it in a laboratory. There is no absolute "morality."

Many religious fanatics have tried to prove that morality is an absolute, just like God is real. They have even developed philosophies to prove it, e.G., metaphysics, and epistemology, which use meaningless circular propositions to prove their points. They use word games to prove their points. Both assume that knowledge, morality, Good and Evil exist 'a priori'.

What does 'a priori' mean: 'a priori' knowledge, in Western philosophy since the time of Immanuel Kant, knowledge that is independent of all particular experiences, as opposed to a posteriori knowledge, which derives from experience. The Latin phrases a priori (“from what is before”) and a posteriori (“from what is after”) were used in philosophy originally to distinguish between arguments from causes and arguments from effects.

Even murdering or killing humans is not an absolute; it is societal, e.G., killing in war is OK, killing someone attacking you with deadly force where you are in fear of your life is OK.



Is morality subjective?

You literally have to deny the very concept of morality to make your case...

Yes... A "Sky Pixie is a figment of your deluded imagination.

Such is fairly typical of a perverse mind and like everything else about you, your perverse mind is no exception.

NO, guy, Sky Pixies are what you all believe in.

So you're qualified to tell me what I believe in?

LOL! That's HYSTERICAL! Given that you're not even qualified to tell me what you believe in.

Suffice it to say I am not a believer in any Sky Pixie. And you are woefully unqualified to test me on that, as you prove post after post, day in and day out... .

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

He's still insisting that I'm a Christian after being told no less than four times in this one thread, AND admitting that he knows I'm not pages ago. His argument rests on that assumption. He needs to convince himself that it's true for everything else to fall into place.

Looks like I hurt his feelings calling out his stolen valor act btw. He's gonna report me to the mods for that now. :'(

false you've missed the point intentionally or not.