The Chief administrator of EVERY VA facility that cooked the books should be fired

[eagle1462010]

Everyone knows that the VA has logistics problems and fails to administer care in a timely manner in many cases. Nobody is arguing this point.

Everyone also knows that this happens in the private sector as well.

I am arguing with you in your characterizing this GOVERNMENT run health care program as being less efficient than private sector health care programs. You cannot establish that.

According to data I've posted from the IG..........115 days to see a doctor at the VA..........Please show me those wait times in Private.....................

The average for about 20 US cities I s around 20 days. Highest in Boston and lowest in Dallas.

Are you representing that 115 day figure as some kind of VA average wait time?

The Inspector Generals Report cited that time for over 260 at ONE FACILITY.

The other data just posted showed from Congressional hearings showed average wait times of 54 days for initial mental evaluations of PTSD.

Those reports are giving the data.
Congressional hearings are giving the data.

So, yes I'm saying it's long wait times.

In my first article there are 18 additional reports stating a lot of the same. Feel Free to read...........

 

[eagle1462010]

Please. You are acting as if a vet was denied emergency care or something. Why are you misrepresenting what took place?

People were obviously denied the care they needed. Show me an example of what happened in the VA at a private hospital.

Those vets who died......can you PROVE that they died due to having to wait for those appointments?

Can you prove that they didn't.................

They were on a dang list because they needed to see the Doc. Died before seeing one.

Hey buddy...........Maybe if they'd seen a Doc, maybe they'd still be alive today.

 

[Rocko]

Please. You are acting as if a vet was denied emergency care or something. Why are you misrepresenting what took place?

People were obviously denied the care they needed. Show me an example of what happened in the VA at a private hospital.

Those vets who died......can you PROVE that they died due to having to wait for those appointments?

You're right the government did nothing wrong. Those vets deserved to die.

 

[eagle1462010]

Actions - H.R.2216 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Military Construction and Veterans Affairs, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2014 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

Increased funding for the VA by 1.4 Billion.

Passed the House........

Reid............Hello, Reid.................Anybody home Reid........

 

[LoneLaugher]

People were obviously denied the care they needed. Show me an example of what happened in the VA at a private hospital.

Those vets who died......can you PROVE that they died due to having to wait for those appointments?

Can you prove that they didn't.................

They were on a dang list because they needed to see the Doc. Died before seeing one.

Hey buddy...........Maybe if they'd seen a Doc, maybe they'd still be alive today.

I can see that happening. But I don't think you can claim that every case was due to waiting for care. If you could......you would.

Fact is.......hospitals are dangerous places. Private and VA.

 

[eagle1462010]

Those vets who died......can you PROVE that they died due to having to wait for those appointments?

Can you prove that they didn't.................

They were on a dang list because they needed to see the Doc. Died before seeing one.

Hey buddy...........Maybe if they'd seen a Doc, maybe they'd still be alive today.

I can see that happening. But I don't think you can claim that every case was due to waiting for care. If you could......you would.

Fact is.......hospitals are dangerous places. Private and VA.

The Fact is that you aren't reading the reports showing a history of long wait times at the VA.........

Why are you trying to justify the wait times. Hell they've been going on for a very long time anyway...............

Those reports of problems go back to 2005.............

Are there problems with it or not.............................Who's side are you own...........

 

[LoneLaugher]

People were obviously denied the care they needed. Show me an example of what happened in the VA at a private hospital.

Those vets who died......can you PROVE that they died due to having to wait for those appointments?

You're right the government did nothing wrong. Those vets deserved to die.

I never said that.

You are doing that conservative "dishonesty in argument" thing again. Are you proud of it?

The VA did plenty wrong. There ought to be...and will be accountability.

But......solutions will be killed or delayed by the GOP. Count on it.

 

[eagle1462010]

Those vets who died......can you PROVE that they died due to having to wait for those appointments?

You're right the government did nothing wrong. Those vets deserved to die.

I never said that.

You are doing that conservative "dishonesty in argument" thing again. Are you proud of it?

The VA did plenty wrong. There ought to be...and will be accountability.

But......solutions will be killed or delayed by the GOP. Count on it.

LOL

Then why did an increase of funding for the VA, which passed the House of Reps end up in Reid's graveyard................

 

[eagle1462010]

BTW.

Only 4 people in the House voted against it.

Why didn't it go up to be passed in the Senate...........................

 

[LoneLaugher]

Can you prove that they didn't.................

They were on a dang list because they needed to see the Doc. Died before seeing one.

Hey buddy...........Maybe if they'd seen a Doc, maybe they'd still be alive today.

I can see that happening. But I don't think you can claim that every case was due to waiting for care. If you could......you would.

Fact is.......hospitals are dangerous places. Private and VA.

The Fact is that you aren't reading the reports showing a history of long wait times at the VA.........

Why are you trying to justify the wait times. Hell they've been going on for a very long time anyway...............

Those reports of problems go back to 2005.............

Are there problems with it or not.............................Who's side are you own...........

I am not trying to justify anything. I am trying to call you out for your SELECTIVE OUTRAGE.

I have said.....over and over....that there are serious problems with access to care for our vets. This is clear. Not in dispute.

There are also serious problems with access in private care facilities. This is clear. Not in dispute.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You're right the government did nothing wrong. Those vets deserved to die.

I never said that.

You are doing that conservative "dishonesty in argument" thing again. Are you proud of it?

The VA did plenty wrong. There ought to be...and will be accountability.

But......solutions will be killed or delayed by the GOP. Count on it.

LOL

Then why did an increase of funding for the VA, which passed the House of Reps end up in Reid's graveyard................

What bill are you talking about?

 

[eagle1462010]

I never said that.

You are doing that conservative "dishonesty in argument" thing again. Are you proud of it?

The VA did plenty wrong. There ought to be...and will be accountability.

But......solutions will be killed or delayed by the GOP. Count on it.

LOL

Then why did an increase of funding for the VA, which passed the House of Reps end up in Reid's graveyard................

What bill are you talking about?

post 104

 

[eagle1462010]

I can see that happening. But I don't think you can claim that every case was due to waiting for care. If you could......you would.

Fact is.......hospitals are dangerous places. Private and VA.

The Fact is that you aren't reading the reports showing a history of long wait times at the VA.........

Why are you trying to justify the wait times. Hell they've been going on for a very long time anyway...............

Those reports of problems go back to 2005.............

Are there problems with it or not.............................Who's side are you own...........

I am not trying to justify anything. I am trying to call you out for your SELECTIVE OUTRAGE.

I have said.....over and over....that there are serious problems with access to care for our vets. This is clear. Not in dispute.

There are also serious problems with access in private care facilities. This is clear. Not in dispute.

Selective Outrage............

Hell, I've been outraged at stories I've heard since the dang 80's..............

And right now we may actually be able to do something before it washed away again.

 

[LoneLaugher]

LOL

Then why did an increase of funding for the VA, which passed the House of Reps end up in Reid's graveyard................

What bill are you talking about?

post 104

Bill Summary & Status - 113th Congress (2013 - 2014) - H.R.3547 - CRS Summary - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

It was put in this bill. It is now law.

 

[Kondor3]

"The Chief administrator of EVERY VA facility that cooked the books should be fired"

Agreed.

Ditto for every underling and auditor who aided-and-abetted, or who otherwise knew, and did nothing about it.

It's time for a metaphorical blood-bath, in the context of careers and prospects.

It's time to send a very clear signal, for the survivors, and future hires.

Followed by as many criminal prosecutions as the law and traffic will bear.

Let the witch-hunt begin.

 

[LoneLaugher]

The Fact is that you aren't reading the reports showing a history of long wait times at the VA.........

Why are you trying to justify the wait times. Hell they've been going on for a very long time anyway...............

Those reports of problems go back to 2005.............

Are there problems with it or not.............................Who's side are you own...........

I am not trying to justify anything. I am trying to call you out for your SELECTIVE OUTRAGE.

I have said.....over and over....that there are serious problems with access to care for our vets. This is clear. Not in dispute.

There are also serious problems with access in private care facilities. This is clear. Not in dispute.

Selective Outrage............

Hell, I've been outraged at stories I've heard since the dang 80's..............

And right now we may actually be able to do something before it washed away again.

I am going to return to my comments to the OP.

Everyone is sufficiently outraged. There will be accountability. Any changes will, however, be turned into political footballs.

 

[Kondor3]

Everyone knows that the VA has logistics problems and fails to administer care in a timely manner in many cases. Nobody is arguing this point.

Everyone also knows that this happens in the private sector as well.

I am arguing with you in your characterizing this GOVERNMENT run health care program as being less efficient than private sector health care programs. You cannot establish that.

That's real stupid. I'm not surprised you posted it. Yeah because there are so many people dying on waiting lists in private hospitals.

Please. You are acting as if a vet was denied emergency care or something. Why are you misrepresenting what took place?

Waiting months for an appointment when you've got cancer IS an emergency !!!

 

[LoneLaugher]

That's real stupid. I'm not surprised you posted it. Yeah because there are so many people dying on waiting lists in private hospitals.

Please. You are acting as if a vet was denied emergency care or something. Why are you misrepresenting what took place?

Waiting months for an appointment when you've got cancer IS an emergency !!!

Read the thread. I'm not going to have the discussion again.

 

[jillian]

That's real stupid. I'm not surprised you posted it. Yeah because there are so many people dying on waiting lists in private hospitals.

Please. You are acting as if a vet was denied emergency care or something. Why are you misrepresenting what took place?

Waiting months for an appointment when you've got cancer IS an emergency !!!

it is. you're correct. and i think finding solutions is important. but they probably need to start with funding. we overburdened the system with a decade of wars and have very worthy and heroic people who need help. constantly cutting taxes and cutting funding results in a loss of services. there was also a failure of service when walter reed hospital was privatized.... a very bad idea.

so now we all agree this needs to be fixed. illegitimately using it for political gain doesn't help vets.

i'd also point out that there are 2700 VA facilities. i can't remember whether 17 or 27 were affected here, so yes, those facilities need to be fixed.... but most did as good a job as possible under the circumstances, i believe.

 

[eagle1462010]

What bill are you talking about?

post 104

Bill Summary & Status - 113th Congress (2013 - 2014) - H.R.3547 - CRS Summary - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

It was put in this bill. It is now law.

Well then I didn't see that...........As when looking for the actions on it at site 104, it didn't show anything other than passed the house..............

I do see they just lumped a bunch of spending measures into a soup mix though, and pass them all at once......via the site you showed me.