The Collapsing American Middle Class

[Fenton Lum]

All Reagan did was fire the workers of a GOVERNMENT union who were committing an illegal strike. There should be no government unions in the first place. If you want market power, you should be in the market

All Reagan did was fire the workers of a GOVERNMENT union who were committing an illegal strike. There should be no government unions in the first place. If you want market power, you should be in the market

You'd better thank God that the Air Traffic Controllers had an illegal strike, because of it ALL FAA towers have Doppler radar.

Employees aren't commodities!

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

That's a lie.

" ... so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one."

That situation can and does arise however.

Well, at least you conceded you think workers are socket wrenches. As an employer, I can tell you that you're wrong. We fight hard to keep the good ones

I didn't concede anything, but hey, argue against the argument you want to have even if it's not presented.

If you do? Good for you for not going along with the current societal trend.

 

[OnePercenter]

You'd better thank God that the Air Traffic Controllers had an illegal strike, because of it ALL FAA towers have Doppler radar.

Employees aren't commodities!

Agreed employees aren't commodities but I fail to what Reagan firing all the PATCO controllers has to do with technological advancement.

Agreed employees aren't commodities but I fail to what Reagan firing all the PATCO controllers has to do with technological advancement.

Technology was one of the key wants of the controllers. If wind shear conditions existed, controllers had to call the local TV station to find out what area the wind shear existed.

 

[OnePercenter]

And who do you think lobbied for the policies shoog? Jesus man.

ANyone can lobby for anything, dunce.

I wish you understood how your power structure works. We might be able to converse.

Just because someone lobbies for something doesnt make it so. Government makes the decision and makes the laws. Ergo monopolies are functions of government intervention, not the free market.

You have some, ahem, rather interesting pronouncements. You can't really articulate, explain, or discuss anything. You just spin off one liners and slogans.

These should be obvious to anyone with a high school education. Tht clearly doesnt include you.
PLease name a monopoly today that was not created by the government,.

These should be obvious to anyone with a high school education. Tht clearly doesnt include you.
PLease name a monopoly today that was not created by the government,.

Please name a monopoly that wasn't created by Republicans.

 

[OnePercenter]

Young people today don't have anywhere near the buying power their Fathers and Grand Fathers had.

Agreed, as the evidence shows:

The American Middle Class Is Losing Ground

Are you middle class?
Are you in the American middle class? Find out with our income calculator

Are you middle class?

No, I'm wealthy.

 

[kaz]

ANyone can lobby for anything, dunce.

I wish you understood how your power structure works. We might be able to converse.

Just because someone lobbies for something doesnt make it so. Government makes the decision and makes the laws. Ergo monopolies are functions of government intervention, not the free market.

You have some, ahem, rather interesting pronouncements. You can't really articulate, explain, or discuss anything. You just spin off one liners and slogans.

These should be obvious to anyone with a high school education. Tht clearly doesnt include you.
PLease name a monopoly today that was not created by the government,.

These should be obvious to anyone with a high school education. Tht clearly doesnt include you.
PLease name a monopoly today that was not created by the government,.

Please name a monopoly that wasn't created by Republicans.

Water, airwaves, Ma Bell, utilities, Microsoft (in the day), steel, oil, health insurance, roads, the post office, law enforcement, the courts, the military

Name monopolies that were created by Republicans

 

[OnePercenter]

I have to go somewhere. But, imo, the question is simply. Can society set a bottom limit on what price a certain market can value something at, such as labor?

I would argue that what we saw with GM and the UAW in the late 70s was that unions could force a corporation to set the price of labor too high for the corporations to sell a product at a profit.

But at the same time, we also saw a management that could not design a product that could successfully compete with Toyota, so blaming labor for GM's demise would be overly simplistic. But now, GM is union owned, so labor's price is set more by market forces. Yet, GM is outsourcing jobs to non-union countries.

I have to go somewhere. But, imo, the question is simply. Can society set a bottom limit on what price a certain market can value something at, such as labor?

I would argue that what we saw with GM and the UAW in the late 70s was that unions could force a corporation to set the price of labor too high for the corporations to sell a product at a profit.

But at the same time, we also saw a management that could not design a product that could successfully compete with Toyota, so blaming labor for GM's demise would be overly simplistic. But now, GM is union owned, so labor's price is set more by market forces. Yet, GM is outsourcing jobs to non-union countries.

One of the companies that I own is a leasing company. I buy direct from the factory at wholesale and know the profit, and it isn't a small number. For instance, a Ford F450 Platinum has a $30k profit. If you buy a fully equipt SUV today, don't be afraid to discount MSRP by $15k at the first go-around, your target is $8k-$10k discount.

The big three's problems was NEVER workers pay, it was bad to very bad investments and investors wanting more.

You're correct, the big three engineered CRAP for many years.

And that type of worker pay fueled a vibrant middle class that was better for society as a whole.

And that type of worker pay fueled a vibrant middle class that was better for society as a whole.

Absolutely! A financially healthy middle class = a healthy economy.

 

[OnePercenter]

Forgetting for the moment that what you are saying is an oversimplification of the problem, why do you think the Democrat Senate and Democrat House allowed "ronnie" to do that? How come 16 years of Democrat Presidents have done nothing to fix the problem? Instead, we got NAFTA, an increased trade deficit with China and greater national debt.

Care to explain that?

All Reagan did was fire the workers of a GOVERNMENT union who were committing an illegal strike. There should be no government unions in the first place. If you want market power, you should be in the market

All Reagan did was fire the workers of a GOVERNMENT union who were committing an illegal strike. There should be no government unions in the first place. If you want market power, you should be in the market

You'd better thank God that the Air Traffic Controllers had an illegal strike, because of it ALL FAA towers have Doppler radar.

Employees aren't commodities!

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

That's a lie.

" ... so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one."

That situation can and does arise however.

Do companies mass fire to reduce pay, Yes.

 

[kaz]

All Reagan did was fire the workers of a GOVERNMENT union who were committing an illegal strike. There should be no government unions in the first place. If you want market power, you should be in the market

All Reagan did was fire the workers of a GOVERNMENT union who were committing an illegal strike. There should be no government unions in the first place. If you want market power, you should be in the market

You'd better thank God that the Air Traffic Controllers had an illegal strike, because of it ALL FAA towers have Doppler radar.

Employees aren't commodities!

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

That's a lie.

" ... so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one."

That situation can and does arise however.

Do companies mass fire to reduce pay, Yes.

When they are struggling. Saves the jobs of the ones who are left. Unions drive companies to Mexico to survive and then they all lose their jobs

 

[Fenton Lum]

I wish you understood how your power structure works. We might be able to converse.

Just because someone lobbies for something doesnt make it so. Government makes the decision and makes the laws. Ergo monopolies are functions of government intervention, not the free market.

You have some, ahem, rather interesting pronouncements. You can't really articulate, explain, or discuss anything. You just spin off one liners and slogans.

These should be obvious to anyone with a high school education. Tht clearly doesnt include you.
PLease name a monopoly today that was not created by the government,.

These should be obvious to anyone with a high school education. Tht clearly doesnt include you.
PLease name a monopoly today that was not created by the government,.

Please name a monopoly that wasn't created by Republicans.

Water, airwaves, Ma Bell, utilities, Microsoft (in the day), steel, oil, health insurance, roads, the post office, law enforcement, the courts, the military

Name monopolies that were created by Republicans

You just drop and run? Don't you want to explain some of this at least?

Airways I get, Clinton and Co deregulated the FCC and as a result we now have 6 major multinational corporations presiding over 90% what americans see, hear, and read. That being said, we get fed not govt propraganda, but corporate propaganda. The post office is a monopoly? Roads, law enforcement, the courts, the military are monopolies? Created by democrats alone? Water?

Please go on.

 

[Fenton Lum]

All Reagan did was fire the workers of a GOVERNMENT union who were committing an illegal strike. There should be no government unions in the first place. If you want market power, you should be in the market

You'd better thank God that the Air Traffic Controllers had an illegal strike, because of it ALL FAA towers have Doppler radar.

Employees aren't commodities!

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

That's a lie.

" ... so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one."

That situation can and does arise however.

Do companies mass fire to reduce pay, Yes.

When they are struggling. Saves the jobs of the ones who are left. Unions drive companies to Mexico to survive and then they all lose their jobs

Oh for fuck sake, unions are responsible for manic linear corporate profit margin growth gluttony now.

 

[Fenton Lum]

All Reagan did was fire the workers of a GOVERNMENT union who were committing an illegal strike. There should be no government unions in the first place. If you want market power, you should be in the market

You'd better thank God that the Air Traffic Controllers had an illegal strike, because of it ALL FAA towers have Doppler radar.

Employees aren't commodities!

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

That's a lie.

" ... so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one."

That situation can and does arise however.

Do companies mass fire to reduce pay, Yes.

When they are struggling. Saves the jobs of the ones who are left. Unions drive companies to Mexico to survive and then they all lose their jobs

"When they are struggling. Saves the jobs of the ones who are left."
Not to worry, the power structure can now turn $40-50K per year per head on hominids in a for profit prison system and we'll still have a healthy society for all. If we only worship the "job creator" class.

 

[OnePercenter]

I wish you understood how your power structure works. We might be able to converse.

Just because someone lobbies for something doesnt make it so. Government makes the decision and makes the laws. Ergo monopolies are functions of government intervention, not the free market.

You have some, ahem, rather interesting pronouncements. You can't really articulate, explain, or discuss anything. You just spin off one liners and slogans.

These should be obvious to anyone with a high school education. Tht clearly doesnt include you.
PLease name a monopoly today that was not created by the government,.

These should be obvious to anyone with a high school education. Tht clearly doesnt include you.
PLease name a monopoly today that was not created by the government,.

Please name a monopoly that wasn't created by Republicans.

Water, airwaves, Ma Bell, utilities, Microsoft (in the day), steel, oil, health insurance, roads, the post office, law enforcement, the courts, the military

Name monopolies that were created by Republicans

Water, airwaves, Ma Bell, utilities, Microsoft (in the day), steel, oil, health insurance, roads, the post office, law enforcement, the courts, the military

Name monopolies that were created by Republicans

You already have. Keep in mind that Republican/Democrat ideology changed in the 60's.

 

[Divine Wind]

You'd better thank God that the Air Traffic Controllers had an illegal strike, because of it ALL FAA towers have Doppler radar.

Employees aren't commodities!

Agreed employees aren't commodities but I fail to what Reagan firing all the PATCO controllers has to do with technological advancement.

Agreed employees aren't commodities but I fail to what Reagan firing all the PATCO controllers has to do with technological advancement.

Technology was one of the key wants of the controllers. If wind shear conditions existed, controllers had to call the local TV station to find out what area the wind shear existed.

Are you a controller or pilot? What is your expertise in this area?

My expertise when it happened was as a Marine Corps CH-46 pilot.

 

[OnePercenter]

All Reagan did was fire the workers of a GOVERNMENT union who were committing an illegal strike. There should be no government unions in the first place. If you want market power, you should be in the market

You'd better thank God that the Air Traffic Controllers had an illegal strike, because of it ALL FAA towers have Doppler radar.

Employees aren't commodities!

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

That's a lie.

" ... so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one."

That situation can and does arise however.

Do companies mass fire to reduce pay, Yes.

When they are struggling. Saves the jobs of the ones who are left. Unions drive companies to Mexico to survive and then they all lose their jobs

When they are struggling. Saves the jobs of the ones who are left. Unions drive companies to Mexico to survive and then they all lose their jobs

Unfortunately, the definition of 'struggling' has changed to 'not making record profits.'

 

[The Rabbi]

Monopolies today are products of government action, simp.

And who do you think lobbied for the policies shoog? Jesus man.

ANyone can lobby for anything, dunce.

I wish you understood how your power structure works. We might be able to converse.

Just because someone lobbies for something doesnt make it so. Government makes the decision and makes the laws. Ergo monopolies are functions of government intervention, not the free market.

monopolies form in the ABSENSE of governmental intervention. anyone with a high school education knows that.

Dunce. Name one monopoly today.

 

[Fenton Lum]

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

LOL, you're the one who argues that they are, you think exployees are like socket wrenches, all the same. That's the whole basis of your arguments from the minimum wage to unions, they are the same and so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one

That's a lie.

" ... so if they don't band together their employer will toss them for an identical cheaper one."

That situation can and does arise however.

Do companies mass fire to reduce pay, Yes.

When they are struggling. Saves the jobs of the ones who are left. Unions drive companies to Mexico to survive and then they all lose their jobs

When they are struggling. Saves the jobs of the ones who are left. Unions drive companies to Mexico to survive and then they all lose their jobs

Unfortunately, the definition of 'struggling' has changed to 'not making record profits.'

There it is.

 

[The Rabbi]

Which of my Ignored idiots are you wasting your time on?

All of them, I donate time to attempting to discuss current events with the handicapped.

You know you're wasting pixels.

It's ok, they'll make more. More pixels = less lost idiots is a stretch, I know, but some of these folks are so unteathered to abject reality it's kinda funny.

Remind me what you've contributed here so far.

I'm waiting on some substance, do you anticipate locating any soon?

You wouldnt know substance if it was on the bottom of your shoe. I've provided links and all. You're just a troll.

 

[The Rabbi]

Illegals water down wages in this country. That is the culprit right there.

no. outsourcing waters down wages....and the second largest employer in this country forces down wages by refusing to buy goods over a certain dollar amount, regardless of wages.... and you wingers drive down wages by destroying collective bargaining.

if you're competing with someone who doesn't speak English for a menial job, then you should probably up your game.

Actually for every job outsourced three are created domestically.
You're so fucking uninformed. It's like explaining quantum physics to a hamster.

"Actually for every job outsourced three are created domestically."

Source please.

How Outsourcing Creates Jobs for Americans

First off, the data is from an organization with a vested interest in pushing globalism, the same type of lobbyist organizations that get legislation through that you've been whining about.

Secondly, this:
"Conclusion. Outsourcing is not a new concept. Blue-collar manufacturing jobs have been outsourced for 100 years. Textile jobs in South Carolina today were originally outsourced from Massachusetts. While the transition was painful for Massachusetts textile workers in the short run, they soon found better jobs in new industries. The same will be true as South Carolina textile jobs are outsourced to China."

No, not the same at all. The MA to SC kept it in house as far as america was concerned and a MA worker had much more of an option to get to SC, or may have even gotten transferred. What we're talking about with global outsourcing is corporations taking tax breaks and incentives and capital out of american society where they can more viciously exploit a less protected workforce and more savagely shit up the environment. Your economy has been rerigged and the workforce here in the US is no longer something global corporatists require. Human beings are disposable, consumable, in the never ending search for linear profit margin growth to infinity.

Yup. Just mere dismissal and no counter arguments.
bye bye, dunce.

 

[The Rabbi]

Just to head this deflection off; this is due to the leadership of BOTH parties being bought by the corporate crony network.

This is not a slam on Dems alone, but all the bastards that undermine our lives and economic future in DC by carrying corporate water for them.

The Bruised and Battered Middle Class

Likewise, California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas have the 10 areas with the highest share of lower-income earners. With the exception of New Mexico, all those states have favored either Republicans or Democrats in four straight presidential elections.

The metro regions with the highest percentage of middle-income households, though, are disproportionately located in swing states or states that the Trump campaign believes are ripe for the New York billionaire's economic message. Pennsylvania and Ohio each have one, and Wisconsin alone has four.

"That tells me the trends described in this report are going to benefit the more populist candidates," said Alan Tonelson, an economic policy analyst who is critical of U.S. trade policy. "That seems to me to translate into good news for Trump … [Clinton] doesn't have very deep roots as a trade policy critic."

This meme is utter bullshit. The middle class is better off than they were 20 years ago. Yes, the last 8 years have sucked due to the low growth that Dem policies produce. But otherwise this is just dog whistle.

This meme is utter bullshit. The middle class is better off than they were 20 years ago. Yes, the last 8 years have sucked due to the low growth that Dem policies produce. But otherwise this is just dog whistle.

Young people today don't have anywhere near the buying power their Fathers and Grand Fathers had.

Thank government policies that caused huge inflation.

Thank government policies that caused huge inflation.

Greed and wage disparity.

Do you even know what "greed" is? I'll bet not. They didnt teach at when you got your masters at Columbia in business. LOL!! Poseur.

 

[Fenton Lum]

And who do you think lobbied for the policies shoog? Jesus man.

ANyone can lobby for anything, dunce.

I wish you understood how your power structure works. We might be able to converse.

Just because someone lobbies for something doesnt make it so. Government makes the decision and makes the laws. Ergo monopolies are functions of government intervention, not the free market.

monopolies form in the ABSENSE of governmental intervention. anyone with a high school education knows that.

Dunce. Name one monopoly today.

6 major multinational corporations preside over 90% of what americans see, read, and hear, pushing capital globalist and mass consumption agendas and division among the masses. This is one reason you're so ill informed and partisanheaded. I'd put that on Clinton, he deregulated the FCC, but heh, "conservatives" are anti govt regulation so that wasn't much of a lift once your democratic party goes republican.

Wall Street. How can that not be considered a monopolistic endeavor that needs to be unwound for the benefit of society at large?