The death of Thanksgiving?

[Foxfyre]

well, the Thanksgiving being a workday for retailers started about 3-4 years ago - so anybody accepting the position BEFORE had the contractual agreement that had Thanksgiving as a Holiday.
So if that is changed now - it is being forced on those who had been working more than the period when novelty started

I just think it is wrong.

It is perfectly legal, I agree, but it is wrong from the ethical standpoint.

So once a personnel policy is set it can never be changed? I wish I had known that about 50 years ago when I first started working. I don't think I ever worked for anybody in all those years that didn't change the rules or system or schedule or something at some point during my employment. When I ran my own business, we had to adjust employee schedules and assigned routes quite often. And here I never knew that was unethical. My bad.

You do not have to be so defensive. I work on holidays because of my profession, so, logically, I should be happy they also have to work
But I think it is wrong to force people to work in retail which is very very very far from any necessity service. And they were working the 3 consecutive days after that anyway.

If it is done on a voluntary basis - by all means, why not.
But you know how it goes with voluntary shifts.

I am not being defensive. I am being truthful about the way things are; the way I know them to be. I have no problem whatsoever with you and Nosmo or anybody else who loves the old fashioned traditional Thanksgiving. I can also appreciate those who don't have such fond memories of those times and aren't as tied to the traditional image. Or a younger generation who just doesnt want to do it that way any more. I honestly do know a lot of folks who WANT that holiday duty for the extra pay or to have extra time off later when they will appreciate it more. I don't see this as a horrible evil boss picking on his poor hapless employees as much as you do.

And I can still very much appreciate those who love and enjoy and preserve the old traditions.

I guess I am pushing for a live and let live attitude here. Those who want to go shopping should not feel guilty if they do so. Apparently enough WANT to do that to make it worthwhile for the stores to open.

And those who want a traditional Thanksgiving should have that.

 

[Againsheila]

So once a personnel policy is set it can never be changed? I wish I had known that about 50 years ago when I first started working. I don't think I ever worked for anybody in all those years that didn't change the rules or system or schedule or something at some point during my employment. When I ran my own business, we had to adjust employee schedules and assigned routes quite often. And here I never knew that was unethical. My bad.

You do not have to be so defensive. I work on holidays because of my profession, so, logically, I should be happy they also have to work
But I think it is wrong to force people to work in retail which is very very very far from any necessity service. And they were working the 3 consecutive days after that anyway.

If it is done on a voluntary basis - by all means, why not.
But you know how it goes with voluntary shifts.

I am not being defensive. I am being truthful about the way things are; the way I know them to be. I have no problem whatsoever with you and Nosmo or anybody else who loves the old fashioned traditional Thanksgiving. I can also appreciate those who don't have such fond memories of those times and aren't as tied to the traditional image. Or a younger generation who just doesnt want to do it that way any more. I honestly do know a lot of folks who WANT that holiday duty for the extra pay or to have extra time off later when they will appreciate it more. I don't see this as a horrible evil boss picking on his poor hapless employees as much as you do.

And I can still very much appreciate those who love and enjoy and preserve the old traditions.

I guess I am pushing for a live and let live attitude here. Those who want to go shopping should not feel guilty if they do so. Apparently enough WANT to do that to make it worthwhile for the stores to open.

And those who want a traditional Thanksgiving should have that.

Unfortunately it's kind of a self fulfilling prophesy. As more and more stores are open on Thanksgiving, fewer and fewer people will be able to stay home with their families and the traditional Thanksgiving day celebration will soon become a part of the past. I'm sorry to see it go, I've always felt it was an important part of the American tradition.

BTW, it is a NATIONAL Holiday, I really think stores and places that don't have to be open should close on our National Holidays. Kind of the American thing to do.

 

[Esmeralda]

You do not have to be so defensive. I work on holidays because of my profession, so, logically, I should be happy they also have to work
But I think it is wrong to force people to work in retail which is very very very far from any necessity service. And they were working the 3 consecutive days after that anyway.

If it is done on a voluntary basis - by all means, why not.
But you know how it goes with voluntary shifts.

I am not being defensive. I am being truthful about the way things are; the way I know them to be. I have no problem whatsoever with you and Nosmo or anybody else who loves the old fashioned traditional Thanksgiving. I can also appreciate those who don't have such fond memories of those times and aren't as tied to the traditional image. Or a younger generation who just doesnt want to do it that way any more. I honestly do know a lot of folks who WANT that holiday duty for the extra pay or to have extra time off later when they will appreciate it more. I don't see this as a horrible evil boss picking on his poor hapless employees as much as you do.

And I can still very much appreciate those who love and enjoy and preserve the old traditions.

I guess I am pushing for a live and let live attitude here. Those who want to go shopping should not feel guilty if they do so. Apparently enough WANT to do that to make it worthwhile for the stores to open.

And those who want a traditional Thanksgiving should have that.

Unfortunately it's kind of a self fulfilling prophesy. As more and more stores are open on Thanksgiving, fewer and fewer people will be able to stay home with their families and the traditional Thanksgiving day celebration will soon become a part of the past. I'm sorry to see it go, I've always felt it was an important part of the American tradition.

BTW, it is a NATIONAL Holiday, I really think stores and places that don't have to be open should close on our National Holidays. Kind of the American thing to do.

I lived in Austria for four years. There, everything is closed on national holidays and on Sundays. The Catholic Church is very strong there, and national holidays include most Catholic holidays. When I say everything is closed, I mean everything except cafes and restaurants. One reason is the unions, which are very strong there. But the reason people don't want to work on holidays is because holidays are for the family, and family is very important. These are days for the family to spend together, not to go their diverse ways or spend the day shopping. People seem to care more about that than making time and a half working on a holiday. As I am not religious, not Catholic, and wasn't paying much attention to when there might be a national holiday, in the beginning, I'd often get caught without food. I'd go out to buy food and find all the grocery stores closed. So, I'd have to search out a cafe with a bakery that sold sandwiches or an open fast food kiosk to get something to eat, or else spend more money than I wanted to at a restaurant. I learned to keep non-perishable food on hand in case that happened.

Although at first I found it annoying, I began to appreciate the idea of everything being closed on national holidays, and if those days are used for family time, then I think it is better for the culture. The thing is, Americans do not appreciate and value the family unit as they do in most European countries.

 

[Gracie]

When I was able to work, I always volunteered to work every holiday. Not really for the money, though it was nice to get that extra day in, but more because I didn't really have family I wanted to be around but the other employees did. I was always on call too...in case someone was sick, or their kid was sick, or there was a docs appt for a family member and needed a ride, or their dog had to go to the vet, or a college student had to cram for a test and needed an extra day. For me...I didn't care and happily took their place. Hubby didn't mind either. Holidays can be at any time for he and I.

And Bull? You haven't been here for long so just a heads up. Syrenn is loved by probably 90% of the people that post here. She is a she. I don't know if those are her tits or not, nor care. Tits don't float my boat, lol. But she is a really nice gal, smart, intelligent, strong in her beliefs and I have never ever seen her intentionally insult anyone on purpose. Ever. So please don't be mean to her, ok? Different strokes for different folks, says I. I am not even sure of her spiritual beliefs, nor care. She's my friend...she is friend to many...and could be yours as well if you don't judge her due to lack of capitolizing a word because of YOUR beliefs. Did that make sense? I mean no offense.

Just sayin'.

 

[Gracie]

Also...an old boss of mine, where I managed her tourist trap store, was always closed on Thanksgiving. I told her to be open. I would work that day. Why? Because once Turkey day is over and tummies are stuffed and the menfolk are slouched on the couch.....their women were bored. They wanted to shop. So on the Holiday Eve, I would tell customers we would be open and to give their wives their wallets while they watched their games. The boss said go for it. So I did. I pulled in 8 grand that day. Every other store on the street was closed. Except ours. I got their money. ME. LOL

 

[Unkotare]

The thing is, Americans do not appreciate and value the family unit as they do in most European countries.

Americans in general? You wanna reconsider that generalization?

 

[MeBelle]

I already have my Xmas shopping done.

Me too.

We're all usually far too drunk to drive anywhere shopping thru most of Thanksgiving Day.

I don't get drunk but even that sounds better than shopping on thanksgiving. And, nothing could get me into a store the day after thanksgiving.

Good to know both of you have replenished your porn stash!

 

[MeBelle]

What family? Suppose they don't have a family. Suppose they don't like their family. No retailer is dragging customers in or making them go shopping. That's a personal decision.

They may not be dragging in customers, but they are dragging in their employees. Just to profit rather than allow their employees a day to do what they wish. And that includes family time.

What happened to "family values"? Does profit trump them? Or does "family values" mean something altogether different from family values?

Most peeps I know volunteer to work T-Day.

The upside is they get paid time and a half.

 

[Gracie]

What family? Suppose they don't have a family. Suppose they don't like their family. No retailer is dragging customers in or making them go shopping. That's a personal decision.

They may not be dragging in customers, but they are dragging in their employees. Just to profit rather than allow their employees a day to do what they wish. And that includes family time.

What happened to "family values"? Does profit trump them? Or does "family values" mean something altogether different from family values?

Most peeps I know volunteer to work T-Day.

The upside is they get paid time and a half.

And the family knows you will be home soon as the store closes at whatever time, THEN eat. They work around the persons schedule. They understand.

 

[MeBelle]

Before my son I spent it with my dogs and going to a food pantry to give out food or similar place a show my gratitude by helping others. Now I spend it with my boy and the dogs play music and decorate my tree. My shopping is done throughout the year when I see a bargain. Thanksgiving is a state of being rather than a holiday for me.

One off me and hubby's first date was volunteering @ a food pantry.

 

[Gracie]

I don't do the food pantry thing. But....when hubby sees turkeys on sale CHEAP at the local market, up to date and not all icky, he buys as many that he can stuff in the basket then takes it to the local food bank for them to either cook for the homeless or hand out to those who can cook it but cant afford to buy it. Thanksgiving means different things to different people.

 

[MeBelle]

I have zero problem with retailers being open on "holidays" I have zero sympathy for sales staff whining they want thanksgiving off.

The world does not stop becasue people want a day off..... sales people need to get a life...suck it the hell up. They to need to learn a something from the service industry.....Hospitals, hotels, airlines and airports, cops, firemen, caterers, restaurants....ect.. all work holidays.

Thank God for restaurants being open!

Our first Thanksgiving in California, we hadn't enough time to unpack, didn't know anyone and had our meal @ Denny's.

A memory none of us will ever forget!

 

[Esmeralda]

The thing is, Americans do not appreciate and value the family unit as they do in most European countries.

Americans in general? You wanna reconsider that generalization?

No I don't want to reconsider it. Maybe you have to live it to understand. Yes, Americans value family, some, but not in the same way. That is why there are less social problems in Europe. On a national holiiday, like the US's Thanksgiving, an average European family will spend it together, not the men in the living room watching TV sports and the women in the kitchen. But together. The parents and the children will go out together and do something together. I have lived in Europe enough to be close to many European families. To know the women very well. They spend it like Americans maybe did a many decades ago but don't do today...as a family unit together. That is why everything is closed. They don't want to go shopping or all go their separate ways and do different things.

 

[Unkotare]

Yes, Americans value family, some, but not in the same way. That is why there are less social problems in Europe. ...

Bullshit and bullshit. You think you know every American family? Don't be ridiculous. You think there aren't social problems in Europe? Don't be ridiculous. Sounds like you got the 'idolize the other' version of expat fever. Lay off the generalizations and you might recover.

 

[Esmeralda]

Yes, Americans value family, some, but not in the same way. That is why there are less social problems in Europe. ...

Bullshit and bullshit. You think you know every American family? Don't be ridiculous. You think there aren't social problems in Europe? Don't be ridiculous. Sounds like you got the 'idolize the other' version of expat fever. Lay off the generalizations and you might recover.

You just don't want accept there are differences, differences that reflect badly on America. Yes, there are social problems in Europe, I never said there weren't, but not anywhere near the extent there are in the US. My work causes me to have a lot of contact with familes, so no, I don't know every family, but I have a good general idea of the state of the American family. Also, you totally miss the point. If American families are splitting up on holidays, some to work in order to get time and a half, some to go shopping, if the men are spending the day in one room, the women in the other , and the kids who knows where, as opposed to European families who spend the day doing one activity together, then yes, there is an obvious difference in the family unit and the value of the family being a unit.

So sad, too bad, but you do not want to face the truth.

 

[mudwhistle]

More retailers have announced they will open Thanksgiving Day for your shopping pleasure, so to speak. Is this appropriate?

Should Thanksgiving remain a holiday, unique to America, when families gather together to give thanks, share a meal and create their own Thanksgiving memories and traditions? Or should Thanksgiving be a day when Mom or Dad has to excuse himself and go to work because bargains are offered to shoppers readying themselves for a holiday happening four weeks hence?

Will you shop on Thanksgiving, or will you take advantage of the day and enjoy it with family and friends?

Sometimes bargains are not really worth it, don't you think? If they come at the expense of yours or the clerk's family, are they really bargains at all?

I think getting a deal is just as good as spending time with family and friends. Obama has been sticking it to us and we need to budget. It's ether that or no Christmas.

Besides, if some Native-American groups have their way, they would get rid of Thanksgiving.

 

[Spiderman]

If a business wants to be open who cares?

No one is forcing you to go shopping.

 

[Vox]

Yes, Americans value family, some, but not in the same way. That is why there are less social problems in Europe. ...

Bullshit and bullshit. You think you know every American family? Don't be ridiculous. You think there aren't social problems in Europe? Don't be ridiculous. Sounds like you got the 'idolize the other' version of expat fever. Lay off the generalizations and you might recover.

You just don't want accept there are differences, differences that reflect badly on America. Yes, there are social problems in Europe, I never said there weren't, but not anywhere near the extent there are in the US. My work causes me to have a lot of contact with familes, so no, I don't know every family, but I have a good general idea of the state of the American family. Also, you totally miss the point. If American families are splitting up on holidays, some to work in order to get time and a half, some to go shopping, if the men are spending the day in one room, the women in the other , and the kids who knows where, as opposed to European families who spend the day doing one activity together, then yes, there is an obvious difference in the family unit and the value of the family being a unit.

So sad, too bad, but you do not want to face the truth.

they have much more social problems in Europe, you just don't know about them

 

[JoeB131]

I always thought the crazy "black Friday" hoopla was too much.

 

[Esmeralda]

Bullshit and bullshit. You think you know every American family? Don't be ridiculous. You think there aren't social problems in Europe? Don't be ridiculous. Sounds like you got the 'idolize the other' version of expat fever. Lay off the generalizations and you might recover.

You just don't want accept there are differences, differences that reflect badly on America. Yes, there are social problems in Europe, I never said there weren't, but not anywhere near the extent there are in the US. My work causes me to have a lot of contact with familes, so no, I don't know every family, but I have a good general idea of the state of the American family. Also, you totally miss the point. If American families are splitting up on holidays, some to work in order to get time and a half, some to go shopping, if the men are spending the day in one room, the women in the other , and the kids who knows where, as opposed to European families who spend the day doing one activity together, then yes, there is an obvious difference in the family unit and the value of the family being a unit.So sad, too bad, but you do not want to face the truth.

they have much more social problems in Europe, you just don't know about them

No they don't. When I lived there, I was working and doing the same work I did in the US, and dealing directly with families. They do not have the same level of social problems. For example, teenage pregnancy: in Europe, compared to the US, practically non-existent. High school dropouts, compared to the US: practically non-existent. Or child abuse: "The child maltreatment death rate in the US is ... 11 times that of Italy." It is similar in all European countries. The US has a higher divorce rate than any European country except Sweden. Americans need to stop thinking they are superior to other cultures; they are not.