The death of Thanksgiving?

[rightwinger]

If you don't want to shop on Thanksgiving....don't do it

But I feel sorry for the employees who have to leave their families to work in that Black Friday (now Thursday) madness.

The stores should kick them back some of the profit they make on Thanksgiving. Either set aside 1-2% of sales to go to employees or else give them a gift certificate they can use for Christmas

 

[Vox]

You just don't want accept there are differences, differences that reflect badly on America. Yes, there are social problems in Europe, I never said there weren't, but not anywhere near the extent there are in the US. My work causes me to have a lot of contact with familes, so no, I don't know every family, but I have a good general idea of the state of the American family. Also, you totally miss the point. If American families are splitting up on holidays, some to work in order to get time and a half, some to go shopping, if the men are spending the day in one room, the women in the other , and the kids who knows where, as opposed to European families who spend the day doing one activity together, then yes, there is an obvious difference in the family unit and the value of the family being a unit.So sad, too bad, but you do not want to face the truth.

they have much more social problems in Europe, you just don't know about them

No they don't. When I lived there, I was working and doing the same work I did in the US, and dealing directly with families. They do not have the same level of social problems. For example, teenage pregnancy: in Europe, compared to the US, practically non-existent. High school dropouts, compared to the US: practically non-existent. Or child abuse: "The child maltreatment death rate in the US is ... 11 times that of Italy." It is similar in all European countries. The US has a higher divorce rate than any European country except Sweden. Americans need to stop thinking they are superior to other cultures; they are not.

yes, they do.

You are so ignorant that you don't even understand that only an ignorant pompous know-it-all can embrace the phrase " social problems in Europe".

There is no standard "europe" - it is the most diverse region possible and only an ignorant hack can make a statement that there are no social issues "in Europe" as a family unit in Norway is absolutely different than the family unit in Malta, and social problems in Paris differ from that in Venice

You don't even get how idiotic you sound, don't you?

p.s. it takes a bit more than just being an American "living in Europe" to understand the differencies between the countries of the continent

 

[Newby]

Remember the sabbath and keep it holy?

wth?

Which sabbath? Thanksgiving is a sabbath?

Apparently, some people think thanksgiving is a religious holiday.

Weird.

Who were the pilgrims thanking?

 

[jon_berzerk]

More retailers have announced they will open Thanksgiving Day for your shopping pleasure, so to speak. Is this appropriate?

Should Thanksgiving remain a holiday, unique to America, when families gather together to give thanks, share a meal and create their own Thanksgiving memories and traditions? Or should Thanksgiving be a day when Mom or Dad has to excuse himself and go to work because bargains are offered to shoppers readying themselves for a holiday happening four weeks hence?

Will you shop on Thanksgiving, or will you take advantage of the day and enjoy it with family and friends?

Sometimes bargains are not really worth it, don't you think? If they come at the expense of yours or the clerk's family, are they really bargains at all?

by the year 2016

right after the 10 pm fireworks on the 4th July

Kmart will be open for your "holiday" shopping needs

--LOL

 

[peach174]

More retailers have announced they will open Thanksgiving Day for your shopping pleasure, so to speak. Is this appropriate?

Should Thanksgiving remain a holiday, unique to America, when families gather together to give thanks, share a meal and create their own Thanksgiving memories and traditions? Or should Thanksgiving be a day when Mom or Dad has to excuse himself and go to work because bargains are offered to shoppers readying themselves for a holiday happening four weeks hence?

Will you shop on Thanksgiving, or will you take advantage of the day and enjoy it with family and friends?

Sometimes bargains are not really worth it, don't you think? If they come at the expense of yours or the clerk's family, are they really bargains at all?

Thanksgiving for us has traditionally been a time to reconnect with family and enjoy a sumptious repast that we determinably choose not to see as gluttenous.

But in all honesty Nosmo, for years I worked for hospitals that required periodic weekend and holiday duty and sometimes my shift would fall on Thanksgiving or Christmas or other special occasion. We just shifted whatever celebrations we had around my schedule at such times. And I appreciated the free time and/or double pay that I got for pulling duty at those times.

And now I don't have that problem, but we have folks come for the food and hugs on Thanksgiving, but an afternoon of sitting around in a stuffed stupor watching football just isn't their bag. So, unless they are into card or board games, they do go out after the noon meal and go to a movie or go shopping or do something else that is more fun for them. I see that as quality family time too and would rather them be enjoying themselves than wishing it all was just over.

Different strokes for different folks. Retailers won't open on Thanksgiving unless there is a proftable result from that and apparently there is. And those folks I know who work in retailing generally do so on a volunteer or short shift basis and they almost always get extra pay or extra time off for pulling that duty. None of them I've talked to mind it at all.

I see where you're coming from and how you're missing the traditions of the past. But almost nothing ever stays the same and judging from activity in the grocery stores ahead of Thanksgiving, I would say Thanksgiving is still being celebrated a lot.

I know there are folks employed at absolutely necessary workplaces like hospitals, fire stations, police precinct headquarters and ambulance services. But should retailers come up to that threshold? Should profits trump family?

Thanksgiving is cut short this year by almost a week.
Last year Thanksgiving was on Nov. 22.
This year it's on Nov. 28.
So yes in this case.
Businesses are cut short by almost a week, yes that cuts deeply into profits, especially in a slow economy like we are in now.
It's about businesses survival.
Nothing wrong with Family celebrating the Holiday and later going out to get good bargains for Christmas.
Shopping by consumers is also cut short this year.

 

[rightwinger]

Thanksgiving for us has traditionally been a time to reconnect with family and enjoy a sumptious repast that we determinably choose not to see as gluttenous.

But in all honesty Nosmo, for years I worked for hospitals that required periodic weekend and holiday duty and sometimes my shift would fall on Thanksgiving or Christmas or other special occasion. We just shifted whatever celebrations we had around my schedule at such times. And I appreciated the free time and/or double pay that I got for pulling duty at those times.

And now I don't have that problem, but we have folks come for the food and hugs on Thanksgiving, but an afternoon of sitting around in a stuffed stupor watching football just isn't their bag. So, unless they are into card or board games, they do go out after the noon meal and go to a movie or go shopping or do something else that is more fun for them. I see that as quality family time too and would rather them be enjoying themselves than wishing it all was just over.

Different strokes for different folks. Retailers won't open on Thanksgiving unless there is a proftable result from that and apparently there is. And those folks I know who work in retailing generally do so on a volunteer or short shift basis and they almost always get extra pay or extra time off for pulling that duty. None of them I've talked to mind it at all.

I see where you're coming from and how you're missing the traditions of the past. But almost nothing ever stays the same and judging from activity in the grocery stores ahead of Thanksgiving, I would say Thanksgiving is still being celebrated a lot.

I know there are folks employed at absolutely necessary workplaces like hospitals, fire stations, police precinct headquarters and ambulance services. But should retailers come up to that threshold? Should profits trump family?

Thanksgiving is cut short this year by almost a week.
Last year Thanksgiving was on Nov. 22.
This year it's on Nov. 28.
So yes in this case.
Businesses are cut short by almost a week, yes that cuts deeply into profits, especially in a slow economy like we are in now.
It's about businesses survival.
Nothing wrong with Family celebrating the Holiday and later going out to get good bargains for Christmas.
Shopping by consumers is also cut short this year.

How does a shorter Christmas season cut into profits?

If I have $1000 to spend on ten people for Christmas I am going to spend that money whether the shopping period is three or four weeks
If there is extra time to shop, I don't spend more money

 

[Kondor3]

I do 99.9% of my holiday shopping online. Screw the crowds, screw trying to find a parking spot. Also on thanksgiving day we a lots of family,eating and football. No time for no stinking shopping.

Zackly! (exactly)

Saves gas, headaches and (in many instances) state sales-tax.

 

[Esmeralda]

Which sabbath? Thanksgiving is a sabbath?

Apparently, some people think thanksgiving is a religious holiday.

Weird.

Who were the pilgrims thanking?

God. They were very religious people.

"In 1621, when their labors were rewarded with a bountiful harvest after a year of sickness and scarcity, the Pilgrims gave thanks to God and celebrated His bounty in the Harvest Home tradition with feasting and sport (recreation). To these people of strong Christian faith, this was not merely a revel; it was also a joyous outpouring of gratitude.

The arrival of the Pilgrims and Puritans brought new Thanksgiving traditions to the American scene. Today’s national Thanksgiving celebration is a blend of two traditions: the New England custom of rejoicing after a successful harvest, based on ancient English harvest festivals; and the Puritan Thanksgiving, a solemn religious observance combining prayer and feasting."
http://www.plimoth.org/learn/MRL/read/thanksgiving-history

 

[Luddly Neddite]

More retailers have announced they will open Thanksgiving Day for your shopping pleasure, so to speak. Is this appropriate?

Should Thanksgiving remain a holiday, unique to America, when families gather together to give thanks, share a meal and create their own Thanksgiving memories and traditions? Or should Thanksgiving be a day when Mom or Dad has to excuse himself and go to work because bargains are offered to shoppers readying themselves for a holiday happening four weeks hence?

Will you shop on Thanksgiving, or will you take advantage of the day and enjoy it with family and friends?

Sometimes bargains are not really worth it, don't you think? If they come at the expense of yours or the clerk's family, are they really bargains at all?

I think getting a deal is just as good as spending time with family and friends. Obama has been sticking it to us and we need to budget. It's ether that or no Christmas.

Besides, if some Native-American groups have their way, they would get rid of Thanksgiving.

Darn that Obama.

First he lowers taxes and then he lowers interest rates so people can refinance and be able to afford to stay in their homes.

 

[mudwhistle]

I always thought the crazy "black Friday" hoopla was too much.

Some stores make 50% of their profits on Black Friday, so I can see why you don't like it.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Should Thanksgiving remain a holiday, unique to America, when families gather together to give thanks, share a meal and create their own Thanksgiving memories and traditions?..."

I vote yes...

And, although I might occasionally run-out to the local convenience-store for some high-priced item or another that we might occasionally forget beforehand, to complement our holiday meal, and although I'm sorry-for and grateful-to those folks who work at such places on holidays, and who are there when we need them...

I will not bargain-shop, department-store style, on Thanksgiving Day, for the sake of bargain shopping...

Given that some of my own people work retail, I'm in favor of keeping as many retail folk at-home for the holiday as may be practicable...

Some places like gas-stations and neighborhood convenience-stores and 24-hour drug-stores (Walgreens, CVS) and your occasional larger-scale grocery store staying open... most of us have had such things at our disposal for years and are grateful from time to time when we're stuck going-out for something really necessary during the day on an actual holiday, but...

I don't need to go to (and will not go to) the local WarMart or Macys or Target or Kmart or Sears or Pennys or Sams Club or CostCo or Marshall's or Lord & Taylor or Toys-R-Us or the like on Thanksgiving Day, unless they're the only store nearby, and I really NEED something from there that won't wait until the next day...

I won't go bargain-shopping ON Thanksgiving Day, myself, because it's a Family Day...

Conceding in-advance that some folks are so hard-up for the money that they're glad for the extra hours and pay, but thinking in-the-main, and from my own conscience, for whatever little that's worth...

The greedy, grasping big retail-chains can do without the goddamned money for one or two days out of the year (Thanksgiving, Christmas) so that their hardworking people can stay home in-peace with their families on those days...

Your mileage may vary...

 

[Katzndogz]

Thanksgiving for me has always been a family day. IMHO it should remain a family day and stores should be closed so employee's can be with their families to give thanks and be thankful. I won't even consider going shopping on Thanksgiving and never will. I hope people boycott and send a message to the greedy coporations that there is more to the holidays than sales and their bottom line.

If people did not want to go shopping on Thanksgiving the stores would never think about opening. If Thanksgiving is a family day, what about those with no families, who can't stand what family they have, or come from a different culture that doesn't recognize Thanksgiving? Should what ever options they have for getting something out of the day YOU have chosen to enjoy with your family be removed?

Opening on Thanksgiving is consumer driven.

 

[Katzndogz]

Apparently, some people think thanksgiving is a religious holiday.

Weird.

Who were the pilgrims thanking?

God. They were very religious people.

"In 1621, when their labors were rewarded with a bountiful harvest after a year of sickness and scarcity, the Pilgrims gave thanks to God and celebrated His bounty in the Harvest Home tradition with feasting and sport (recreation). To these people of strong Christian faith, this was not merely a revel; it was also a joyous outpouring of gratitude.

The arrival of the Pilgrims and Puritans brought new Thanksgiving traditions to the American scene. Today’s national Thanksgiving celebration is a blend of two traditions: the New England custom of rejoicing after a successful harvest, based on ancient English harvest festivals; and the Puritan Thanksgiving, a solemn religious observance combining prayer and feasting."
Thanksgiving History | Plimoth Plantation

The only kernel of truth is that the Pilgrims gave thanks for a bountiful harvest. Thanksgiving was not a holiday or a day of rest. Thanksgiving did not become a holiday until Abraham Lincoln declared it so on October 3, 1863. It was not Thanks with any religious meaning but political. It was Thanks that the Union was preserved.

 

[Esmeralda]

Should Thanksgiving remain a holiday, unique to America, when families gather together to give thanks, share a meal and create their own Thanksgiving memories and traditions?

Thanksgiving is not a holiday unique to America. Canada has a thanksgiving holdiay too.

"Thanksgiving...occurring on the second Monday in October, is an annual Canadian holiday which celebrates the harvest and other blessings of the past year.... Thanksgiving corresponds to the English and continental European Harvest festival, with churches decorated with cornucopias, pumpkins, corn, wheat sheaves, and other harvest bounty, English and European harvest hymns sung on the Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend, and scriptural selections drawn from biblical stories relating to the Jewish harvest festival of Sukkot....The history of Thanksgiving in Canada can be traced back to the 1578 voyage of Martin Frobisher from England in search of the Northwest Passage..." Wiki

"Canadians eat a similar meal as Americans. Traditionally, this includes roast turkey and seasonal produce, such as pumpkin, corn ears, and pecan nuts..." What Do Canadians Eat for Thanksgiving? - Ask.com

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Which sabbath? Thanksgiving is a sabbath?

Apparently, some people think thanksgiving is a religious holiday.

Weird.

Who were the pilgrims thanking?

Edited to add -

They were not celebrating the holiday we call "thanksgiving". Sorry but its just not a religious holiday.


Congress Establishes Thanksgiving

Congress Establishes Thanksgiving

On September 28, 1789, just before leaving for recess, the first Federal Congress passed a resolution asking that the President of the United States recommend to the nation a day of thanksgiving. A few days later, President George Washington issued a proclamation naming Thursday, November 26, 1789 as a "Day of Publick Thanksgivin" - the first time Thanksgiving was celebrated under the new Constitution. Subsequent presidents issued Thanksgiving Proclamations, but the dates and even months of the celebrations varied. It wasn't until President Abraham Lincoln's 1863 Proclamation that Thanksgiving was regularly commemorated each year on the last Thursday of November.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Thanksgiving did not become a holiday until Abraham Lincoln declared it so on October 3, 1863. It was not Thanks with any religious meaning but political. It was Thanks that the Union was preserved."

Thanks to whom?

Actually, I think it had some vague and generic 'religious meaning' but it was strictly non-denominational in nature and directed primarily at 'persons of faith', whom, back then, unquestionably and decisively dominated the population and the political scene during wartime.

 

[Katzndogz]

Canada has a Thanksgiving too. It's just not the same Thanksgiving.

The same arguments were used years ago when stores started opening on Sunday. Sunday was family day. Except it really isn't any more so stores open. The loss of Thanksgiving is more a consequence of the breakdown of families than any other reason.

 

[peach174]

I know there are folks employed at absolutely necessary workplaces like hospitals, fire stations, police precinct headquarters and ambulance services. But should retailers come up to that threshold? Should profits trump family?

Thanksgiving is cut short this year by almost a week.
Last year Thanksgiving was on Nov. 22.
This year it's on Nov. 28.
So yes in this case.
Businesses are cut short by almost a week, yes that cuts deeply into profits, especially in a slow economy like we are in now.
It's about businesses survival.
Nothing wrong with Family celebrating the Holiday and later going out to get good bargains for Christmas.
Shopping by consumers is also cut short this year.

How does a shorter Christmas season cut into profits?

If I have $1000 to spend on ten people for Christmas I am going to spend that money whether the shopping period is three or four weeks
If there is extra time to shop, I don't spend more money

A one day jump ahead of black Friday sales helps in sales.

Black Friday is the day after Thanksgiving, November 29 2013, and the busiest shopping day of the year. It kicks off the critical holiday season, where retailers make between 20%-40% of their annual revenue.

Last year set a record, as 89 million people either went to stores or shopped online, up from 85 million in 2011. During the three-day Black Friday weekend, 247 million people shopped, more than the 226 million the year before. Surprisingly, 35 million shopped on Thanksgiving Day itself, up from the 29 million who did so in 2011.
On average, each shopper burned through a record $423, more than the $398 he or she spent in 2011. In total, they spent $59.1 billion, up from the $52.4 billion spent in 2011, and 16% more than Black Friday 2010.

 

[Katzndogz]

"...Thanksgiving did not become a holiday until Abraham Lincoln declared it so on October 3, 1863. It was not Thanks with any religious meaning but political. It was Thanks that the Union was preserved."

Thanks to whom?

Actually, I think it had some vague and generic 'religious meaning' but it was strictly non-denominational in nature and directed primarily at 'persons of faith', whom, back then, unquestionably and decisively dominated the population and the political scene during wartime.

As a religious people, the Union victory was an act of God, so they gave Thanks to the Lord. Judging from what democrats have done to the Union since 1863, the preservation of the Union isn't exactly something to be Thankful for any longer.

I don't celebrate Thanksgiving. Aside from making a phone call to my son and sending out a few e-mails, I normally work and it's just another day. I really don't celebrate any holidays. If I have work to do, I do it. Going shopping might be a welcome break if the stores aren't too crowded.

 

[MizMolly]

If someone doesn't like this idea, stay home. I won't be out shopping, I will be deep frying a turkey