The death of Thanksgiving?

[WinterBorn]

Its funny to me that the same people who crow about private businesses having the right to fire gays, not allow unions, or to be able to choose whether or not they provide healthcare options that go against the business owner's religious beliefs, are often the same people who want to make it illegal to open on Thanksgiving.

 

[Foxfyre]

More retailers have announced they will open Thanksgiving Day for your shopping pleasure, so to speak. Is this appropriate?

Should Thanksgiving remain a holiday, unique to America, when families gather together to give thanks, share a meal and create their own Thanksgiving memories and traditions? Or should Thanksgiving be a day when Mom or Dad has to excuse himself and go to work because bargains are offered to shoppers readying themselves for a holiday happening four weeks hence?

Will you shop on Thanksgiving, or will you take advantage of the day and enjoy it with family and friends?

Sometimes bargains are not really worth it, don't you think? If they come at the expense of yours or the clerk's family, are they really bargains at all?

Thanksgiving for us has traditionally been a time to reconnect with family and enjoy a sumptious repast that we determinably choose not to see as gluttenous.

But in all honesty Nosmo, for years I worked for hospitals that required periodic weekend and holiday duty and sometimes my shift would fall on Thanksgiving or Christmas or other special occasion. We just shifted whatever celebrations we had around my schedule at such times. And I appreciated the free time and/or double pay that I got for pulling duty at those times.

And now I don't have that problem, but we have folks come for the food and hugs on Thanksgiving, but an afternoon of sitting around in a stuffed stupor watching football just isn't their bag. So, unless they are into card or board games, they do go out after the noon meal and go to a movie or go shopping or do something else that is more fun for them. I see that as quality family time too and would rather them be enjoying themselves than wishing it all was just over.

Different strokes for different folks. Retailers won't open on Thanksgiving unless there is a proftable result from that and apparently there is. And those folks I know who work in retailing generally do so on a volunteer or short shift basis and they almost always get extra pay or extra time off for pulling that duty. None of them I've talked to mind it at all.

I see where you're coming from and how you're missing the traditions of the past. But almost nothing ever stays the same and judging from activity in the grocery stores ahead of Thanksgiving, I would say Thanksgiving is still being celebrated a lot.

I know there are folks employed at absolutely necessary workplaces like hospitals, fire stations, police precinct headquarters and ambulance services. But should retailers come up to that threshold? Should profits trump family?

But as Katz pointed out, what if you don't have family? Or you don't want to spend a whole day with the one you do have? I have a daughter on the east coast that would have to spend more than $700 in airfare to come home for Thanksgiving for a couple of days and we encourage her to wait until she has a bigger block of time so we can really have a chance to be together and she'll get more of her money's worth. So it is not uncommon that she goes shopping on Thanksgiving Day when the crowds will be thinner than they are on weekends.

And again, a shopping expedition to the mall or maybe a movie is a fun family activity for folks who don't have frequent opportunity to do stuff together like that. And when we have large family gatherings, some do that. I just can't find any fault with it.

I won't go shopping on Thanskgiving--unless our guests make an offer I won't want to refuse--but then I rarely go shopping in stores as, like others, I prefer to do most of our shopping on line.

And okay, maybe I'm selling out to modern times. But I did that years ago when I accepted my daughter-in-law handing me Stovetop Stuffing to stuff her turkey with. And I was surprised that it was good. And now, I may or may not make my own dressing this Thanksgiving and think how much time and hassle that will save. There have been Thanksgivings when there was so much work, I didn't really enjoy it.

A Thanksgiving of doing what we enjoy doing with those we love to be with rather than the picture perfect traditional Thanksgiving on the front of the family magazine isn't all bad.

 

[NLT]

people who want to make it illegal to open on Thanksgiving.

Who wants to make it illeagal to open on Thanksgiving? Project much?

 

[Nosmo King]

Its funny to me that the same people who crow about private businesses having the right to fire gays, not allow unions, or to be able to choose whether or not they provide healthcare options that go against the business owner's religious beliefs, are often the same people who want to make it illegal to open on Thanksgiving.

I don't recall anyone asking it to be illegal for stores to open on Thanksgiving. I posed the question on an ethical basis. And for the record, I don't believe anyone should be fired for being Gay.

 

[Connery]

Before my son I spent it with my dogs and going to a food pantry to give out food or similar place a show my gratitude by helping others. Now I spend it with my boy and the dogs play music and decorate my tree. My shopping is done throughout the year when I see a bargain. Thanksgiving is a state of being rather than a holiday for me.

Decorate your tree? I'm assuming its an artificial tree. I tagged my Christmas tree on the Saturday before Veteran's Day. It's a good time to make a selection. Sometime around the 14th of December I'll go back and have it cut down, shaken and bailed. It goes in the tree stand within 45 minutes of felling it. The freshest tree with the best aroma and it will last looking great until New Year's Day when all the Christmas stuff gets packed away.

Yes artificial. I live in a forest and have to clean up trees, cut them down and generally bust my ass all year around.

 

[koshergrl]

I get the feeling that Nosmo thinks employees should be paid to not work. How fucking ridiculous.

If they want to be open on Thanksgiving, they have the right to open on Thanksgiving. If workers don't want to work, they can quit.

I worked major holidays for years in human services and other positions. I was happy to be working and never viewed my employers as *evil* for *dragging me in* on Turkey day.

Get a fucking clue.

 

[koshergrl]

Its funny to me that the same people who crow about private businesses having the right to fire gays, not allow unions, or to be able to choose whether or not they provide healthcare options that go against the business owner's religious beliefs, are often the same people who want to make it illegal to open on Thanksgiving.

I don't recall anyone asking it to be illegal for stores to open on Thanksgiving. I posed the question on an ethical basis. And for the record, I don't believe anyone should be fired for being Gay.

There's nothing unethical about keeping shop hours, and paying employees to man the shop, on holidays. Grow the fuck up.

 

[Foxfyre]

Oh come on guys. Give Nosmo a break. Seriously. He posed a legitimate and honest question on a timely subject. He seriously mourns the loss of those special occasions when commerce and industry closed down for a day, as much as possible, and people came together for cherished American traditions. I can see that in his words. I can feel that in his heart. And it is nothing to despise.

Okay most of us are comfortable with changing traditions and don't much care whether we participate in the cultural traditions of yesteryear. He wishes employers would respect those traditions and close as all stores once did so their employees could enjoy those traditions.

But everybody isn't comfortable with that. Everybody doesn't want that. He hasn't berated any of us who don't have a problem with shopping on Thanksgiving. He deserves the same respect for how he feels.

 

[JakeStarkey]

soulless capitalism strikes again

 

[AceRothstein]

I will work since I don't take holidays off. I will go out for dinner to a restaurant where people are working. As my usual practice I will thank the server for working on a holiday and leave an extra large tip. Not everyone has a family. Some would rather work than sit home alone. Some appreciate the extra money. Some come from other countries and don't recognize the holiday.

The Hallmark Card image of the happy family gathered aroun the dinner table, for the most part, never got off the card.

I'm not surprised that a loon like you doesn't have friends or family.

 

[Againsheila]

More retailers have announced they will open Thanksgiving Day for your shopping pleasure, so to speak. Is this appropriate?

Should Thanksgiving remain a holiday, unique to America, when families gather together to give thanks, share a meal and create their own Thanksgiving memories and traditions? Or should Thanksgiving be a day when Mom or Dad has to excuse himself and go to work because bargains are offered to shoppers readying themselves for a holiday happening four weeks hence?

Will you shop on Thanksgiving, or will you take advantage of the day and enjoy it with family and friends?

Sometimes bargains are not really worth it, don't you think? If they come at the expense of yours or the clerk's family, are they really bargains at all?

Well, there is a woman on Facebook claiming that all Thanksgivings came after mass murdering an Indian village. I imagine she will be shopping...but I won't.

 

[boedicca]

You couldn't pay me to go shopping on a holiday...or pretty much any day. I'd rather use the interwebs...but not on holidays. That is family time.

 

[koshergrl]

I don't give respect for feelings. He is arguing that it's unethical to keep business open on state-recognized holidays.

That's insane.

 

[boedicca]

I don't give respect for feelings. He is arguing that it's unethical to keep business open on state-recognized holidays.

That's insane.

It's not unethical. If a business owner wishes to be open that day, it's his business.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't give respect for feelings. He is arguing that it's unethical to keep business open on state-recognized holidays.

That's insane.

He didn't argue that at all. What I saw him arguing was the concept that an ethical employer would put family ahead of profits for that one day. He wasn't suggesting that it be required or legislated or anything like that. He simply thought honorable people would respect the family traditions of their employees sufficiently to forego whatever profit would be made on those traditional family holidays.

It is just as valid opinion as is your opinion that there is no ethical problem with opening your store on Thanksgiving Day for those who prefer to shop than be traditional.

So the two of you disagree. He and I disagree on that in fact. But that doesn't make any one of us right or wrong so long as we express an opinion and don't presume to force it on somebody else as policy. Nosmo doesn't deserve to be berated or insulted for his opinion any more than you deserve to be berated or insulted for your opinion about whether to open on Thanksgiving.

 

[Againsheila]

My friend, a long time maid now, once worked for a company that required everybody to come in on Thanksgiving and work for 2 hours and 2 hours only. That way, everybody got most of the holiday to spend with their family. I think that was a good compromise.

 

[koshergrl]

I don't give respect for feelings. He is arguing that it's unethical to keep business open on state-recognized holidays.

That's insane.

He didn't argue that at all. What I saw him arguing was the concept that an ethical employer would put family ahead of profits for that one day. He wasn't suggesting that it be required or legislated or anything like that. He simply thought honorable people would respect the family traditions of their employees sufficiently to forego whatever profit would be made on those traditional family holidays.

It is just as valid opinion as is your opinion that there is no ethical problem with opening your store on Thanksgiving Day for those who prefer to shop than be traditional.

So the two of you disagree. He and I disagree on that in fact. But that doesn't make any one of us right or wrong so long as we express an opinion and don't presume to force it on somebody else as policy. Nosmo doesn't deserve to be berated or insulted for his opinion any more than you deserve to be berated or insulted for your opinion about whether to open on Thanksgiving.

I didn't say his opinion wasn't valid. I said it was wrong. And yes, an opinion can, in fact, be WRONG.

It is NOT unethical to keep your business open on a holiday. There's absolutely nothing unethical about it, as long as you pay wages for the hours worked.

What is unethical is any requirement that businesses close for state holidays...which is of course the next step, once one determines it's *unethical* to stay open on state holidays.

 

[Vox]

other.

 

[Vox]

More retailers have announced they will open Thanksgiving Day for your shopping pleasure, so to speak. Is this appropriate?

Should Thanksgiving remain a holiday, unique to America, when families gather together to give thanks, share a meal and create their own Thanksgiving memories and traditions? Or should Thanksgiving be a day when Mom or Dad has to excuse himself and go to work because bargains are offered to shoppers readying themselves for a holiday happening four weeks hence?

Will you shop on Thanksgiving, or will you take advantage of the day and enjoy it with family and friends?

Sometimes bargains are not really worth it, don't you think? If they come at the expense of yours or the clerk's family, are they really bargains at all?

Of course it is appropriate.

Why should I be obliged to be on-call and the retailers can celebrate?

 

[Vox]

I don't give respect for feelings. He is arguing that it's unethical to keep business open on state-recognized holidays.

That's insane.

He didn't argue that at all. What I saw him arguing was the concept that an ethical employer would put family ahead of profits for that one day. He wasn't suggesting that it be required or legislated or anything like that. He simply thought honorable people would respect the family traditions of their employees sufficiently to forego whatever profit would be made on those traditional family holidays.

It is just as valid opinion as is your opinion that there is no ethical problem with opening your store on Thanksgiving Day for those who prefer to shop than be traditional.

So the two of you disagree. He and I disagree on that in fact. But that doesn't make any one of us right or wrong so long as we express an opinion and don't presume to force it on somebody else as policy. Nosmo doesn't deserve to be berated or insulted for his opinion any more than you deserve to be berated or insulted for your opinion about whether to open on Thanksgiving.

I didn't say his opinion wasn't valid. I said it was wrong. And yes, an opinion can, in fact, be WRONG.

It is NOT unethical to keep your business open on a holiday. There's absolutely nothing unethical about it, as long as you pay wages for the hours worked.

What is unethical is any requirement that businesses close for state holidays...which is of course the next step, once one determines it's *unethical* to stay open on state holidays.

Actually, unethical would be forcing someone to work on holiday, unless you pay a much higher wage and without force.

Selling goods is not an emergency necessity, and while I was obviously jesting in my previous post, I do see the difference between a hospital and a department store.

And this is relatively new trend - and I do not consider it to be too good of a trend.
Remember the 3d Commandment?

People should have some holidays when they are not forced to work if their job is not in the 24/7 services.
Retail is NOT.