The downside of carrying a firearm...

[rightwinger]

2/3 of all MURDERS are caused by guns

Wrong. 100% of all MURDERS are caused by people. The tools they use are not the issue. The violence they do IS the issue.

Tools are absolutely the issue. having the tool of a gun at your disposal makes murder much easier

Countries with fewer guns have murder rates one third to one fifth of ours

 

[rightwinger]

300 million averages out to less than one per person

That's not a lot.

Sweden has a population of 9 million so if they have more than 9 million guns in the country then they have more per person than we do.

Sweden has one gun for every four people, we have a gun for almost evry American

Our murder rate is three times that of Sweden

The murder rate is a red herring.

More people are killed by fists and feet than by rifles and shotguns combined.

And you have to be careful when comparing murder rates. For example in the UK a death is only called a murder after there is a conviction whereas we count all deaths not by accident or suicide murder no matter if there is a conviction or not.

link

 

[rightwinger]

Not true.

Actually plain falling kills TWICE as much people as firearms do.

should we ban sidewalks, roofs and ladders?

Falling is not murder

2/3 of all MURDERS are caused by guns

To claim we can't do anything about gun violence untill all other possible causes of death are eliminated is ridiculous

How many of those are from legally owned registered firearms?

I'm all for getting rid of illegal guns as long as you leave law abiding people alone.

Gun Nuts love to spout the myth that murders are primarily committed by bad guys with unregistered guns.

2/3 of murders are by someone you know with domestic violence the major portion of those murders

 

[Vox]

But guns kill more people than knives, fists, feet, baseball bats, lead pipes combinedThat is why we are concerned with gun violence

Not true.

Actually plain falling kills TWICE as much people as firearms do.

should we ban sidewalks, roofs and ladders?

Falling is not murder

2/3 of all MURDERS are caused by guns
To claim we can't do anything about gun violence untill all other possible causes of death are eliminated is ridiculous

not true.

and the result is death, so it does not matter in the end.

actually you don't know how much falling is a foul play as well

 

[Bumberclyde]

Not true.

Actually plain falling kills TWICE as much people as firearms do.

should we ban sidewalks, roofs and ladders?

Falling is not murder

2/3 of all MURDERS are caused by guns

To claim we can't do anything about gun violence untill all other possible causes of death are eliminated is ridiculous

How many of those are from legally owned registered firearms?

I'm all for getting rid of illegal guns as long as you leave law abiding people alone.

All guns in the US start out by being purchased legally, so in fact, it's the legal gun owners who are not responsible to take care of their shit, as well as too lax gun laws that don't punish the legal owners of the gun when it gets used in a crime.

 

[hunarcy]

2/3 of all MURDERS are caused by guns

Wrong. 100% of all MURDERS are caused by people. The tools they use are not the issue. The violence they do IS the issue.

Tools are absolutely the issue. having the tool of a gun at your disposal makes murder much easier

Countries with fewer guns have murder rates one third to one fifth of ours

Without the intent to murder, the firearm is nothing more than a paper weight. If we were to address the criminal, the tool would be irrelevant. 100% of the firearms I own have never murdered another person.

And Countries with more guns per capita have murder rates that are lower than ours. Switzerland and Sweden come to mind immediately as proof of that. So, it's not the firearms, its the people.

 

[Spiderman]

Sweden has one gun for every four people, we have a gun for almost evry American

Our murder rate is three times that of Sweden

The murder rate is a red herring.

More people are killed by fists and feet than by rifles and shotguns combined.

And you have to be careful when comparing murder rates. For example in the UK a death is only called a murder after there is a conviction whereas we count all deaths not by accident or suicide murder no matter if there is a conviction or not.

link

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Rick Notes: Comparing England (or UK) murder rates with the US: More complex than you thought

Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction

House of Commons - Home Affairs - Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence

The sad thing is that anyone can find this stuff if they actually care to argue from an informed position.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm still trying to find out how many gun deaths are caused by illegally obtained guns as compared to legally owned weapons.

Despite what you people might think that particular stat matters quite a lot.

Here's another tid bit I am trying to verify.

While the US might be near the top of gun deaths in the world where would we be if we excluded cities like LA, Detroit, Chicago and other violent places from the stats?

I'm guessing we'd be near the bottom of the list in that case.

Again that matters because it is more an indictment of the problems in our major cities than it is of the country and its citizens as a whole.

 

[Spiderman]

Putting Gun Death Statistics in Perspective - Gangs Remain Key Unaddressed Problem in Gun Debate

To hear gun control advocates speak, one would be led to believe that gun violence is a widespread problem whereby the mere existence of a gun is as much a problem as the person who intends to wield it. But the reality is that gun homicides are overwhelmingly tied to gang violence. In fact, a staggering 80% of gun homicides are gang-related. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), gang homicides accounted for roughly 8,900 of 11,100 gun murders in both 2010 and 2011. That means that there were just 2,200 non gang-related firearm murders in both years in a country of over 300 million people and 250 million guns.

Gee Imagine that.

As I said the problem isn't gun owners it's the failure to control crime in our cities.

 

[rightwinger]

Wrong. 100% of all MURDERS are caused by people. The tools they use are not the issue. The violence they do IS the issue.

Tools are absolutely the issue. having the tool of a gun at your disposal makes murder much easier

Countries with fewer guns have murder rates one third to one fifth of ours

Without the intent to murder, the firearm is nothing more than a paper weight. If we were to address the criminal, the tool would be irrelevant. 100% of the firearms I own have never murdered another person.

And Countries with more guns per capita have murder rates that are lower than ours. Switzerland and Sweden come to mind immediately as proof of that. So, it's not the firearms, its the people.

Both Switzerland and Sweden have gun ownership of about one quarter of ours

The problem with gun violence goes beyond intent. The jerk in the movie theater did not intend to bring his gun to shoot someone....but when he lost his temper, the gun was there

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Tools are absolutely the issue. having the tool of a gun at your disposal makes murder much easier

Countries with fewer guns have murder rates one third to one fifth of ours

Without the intent to murder, the firearm is nothing more than a paper weight. If we were to address the criminal, the tool would be irrelevant. 100% of the firearms I own have never murdered another person.

And Countries with more guns per capita have murder rates that are lower than ours. Switzerland and Sweden come to mind immediately as proof of that. So, it's not the firearms, its the people.

Both Switzerland and Sweden have gun ownership of about one quarter of ours

The problem with gun violence goes beyond intent. The jerk in the movie theater did not intend to bring his gun to shoot someone....but when he lost his temper, the gun was there

Why do you live in fear?

 

[Spoonman]

But guns kill more people than knives, fists, feet, baseball bats, lead pipes combinedThat is why we are concerned with gun violence

Not true.

Actually plain falling kills TWICE as much people as firearms do.

should we ban sidewalks, roofs and ladders?

Falling is not murder

2/3 of all MURDERS are caused by guns

To claim we can't do anything about gun violence untill all other possible causes of death are eliminated is ridiculous

guns are used to prevent more crimes and murder than they are used to cause

 

[rightwinger]

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence ? Gun Law Information Experts

In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings. This is the equivalent of more than 85 deaths each day and more than three deaths each hour.1

73,505 Americans were treated in hospital emergency departments for non-fatal gunshot wounds in 2010.2

Guns were used in 11,078 homicides in the U.S. in 2010, comprising almost 35% of all gun deaths, and over 68% of all homicides.6

On average, 33 gun homicides were committed each day for the years 2005-2010.7

Regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.8

Where guns are prevalent, there are significantly more homicides, particularly gun homicides.9

Firearms were used in 19,392 suicides in the U.S. in 2010, constituting almost 62% of all gun deaths.10

Over 50% of all suicides are committed with a firearm

In 2010, unintentional firearm injuries caused the deaths of 606 people.18

From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings.19

Over 1,300 victims of unintentional shootings for the period 2005–2010 were under 25 years of age

 

[Spoonman]

Without the intent to murder, the firearm is nothing more than a paper weight. If we were to address the criminal, the tool would be irrelevant. 100% of the firearms I own have never murdered another person.

And Countries with more guns per capita have murder rates that are lower than ours. Switzerland and Sweden come to mind immediately as proof of that. So, it's not the firearms, its the people.

Both Switzerland and Sweden have gun ownership of about one quarter of ours

The problem with gun violence goes beyond intent. The jerk in the movie theater did not intend to bring his gun to shoot someone....but when he lost his temper, the gun was there

Why do you live in fear?

really. more people were negatively impacted by obamacare than are negatively impacted by guns. by rightwingers logic we should fear obamacare

 

[rightwinger]

Not true.

Actually plain falling kills TWICE as much people as firearms do.

should we ban sidewalks, roofs and ladders?

Falling is not murder

2/3 of all MURDERS are caused by guns

To claim we can't do anything about gun violence untill all other possible causes of death are eliminated is ridiculous

guns are used to prevent more crimes and murder than they are used to cause

Our murder rate does not support that

 

[Spiderman]

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence ? Gun Law Information Experts

And 80% of those gun homicides were gang related or in other words most likely committed by criminals with illegally obtained guns.

Suicides don't count as they are not murder.

So feel free to come up with a way to stop gang violence and get rid of illegally obtained firearms while leaving law abiding people alone and I'll bet law abiding people who happen to own guns will back you up 100%

 

[Warrior102]

Odd that this "nut-case" managed to fake sanity so long and so well that he retired as a CAPTAIN in the Tampa police.

Joe Biden's another example....

 

[Spoonman]

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence ? Gun Law Information Experts

cars and poisoning are bigger problems than guns, are not constitutional rights and libs are silent on them libs don't care about problems, only agendas

 

[hunarcy]

The problem with gun violence goes beyond intent. The jerk in the movie theater did not intend to bring his gun to shoot someone....but when he lost his temper, the gun was there

And as you admitted yesterday, you have made your judgments prior to any facts being provided beyond the most basic ones. You don't know he was a jerk, all you know is that he and the victim were in an argument. The older man left to find a manager. He returned without a manager and was confronted by the victim who was 30 years younger and apparently argumentative. The older man has pleaded not guilty because he felt threatened. It's up to a court to decide if he was truly a "jerk" or if he was justified in the feelings he claims.

 

[hunarcy]

Why do you live in fear?

It seems to me that he lives in fear because he expects everyone to behave as he does. He jumps to conclusions and acts in apparent emotion.

I'd prefer HIM to not have a firearm, but it is his right.