The downside of carrying a firearm...

[Nosmo King]

So we should disarm everyong because of one nut case ?

Should we ban cars when a mental case drives into a crowd?

You might have a point, but were cars designed as deadly weapons? Seems 'deadly weapon' was the prime directive when designing a gun.

 

[racewright]

Tools are absolutely the issue. having the tool of a gun at your disposal makes murder much easier

Countries with fewer guns have murder rates one third to one fifth of ours

Without the intent to murder, the firearm is nothing more than a paper weight. If we were to address the criminal, the tool would be irrelevant. 100% of the firearms I own have never murdered another person.

And Countries with more guns per capita have murder rates that are lower than ours. Switzerland and Sweden come to mind immediately as proof of that. So, it's not the firearms, its the people.

Finally -- we agree. It is the people, our culture and our history. That's why I keep saying focusing on gun restriction laws is trying to treat the symptom while ignoring the disease.

What other countries murder rate is of no use in comparing gun ownership.
This is a country that believes in freedom plane and simple....I for one am tired of having more and more restriction placed on me because of the bad guy.

I have been yelling at my 30-30 (not really) all morning to go and shoot the neighbors dog and it just will not listen to me.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"Guns don't kill people.....People with guns kill people"

People with knives kill people
People with fists kill people
People with feet kill people
People with baseball bats kill people
People with lead pipes kill people

Or in other words people kill people.

People always have killed people
People always will kill people

That is a very good point....did you come up with it yourself?

But guns kill more people than knives, fists, feet, baseball bats, lead pipes combined

That is why we are concerned with gun violence

Is that like your claim that the US has a murder rate 3 times any industrialized country?

 

[Pogo]

When someone gets shot, they say they died by gunshot, not by human being. Therefore, ipso facto, if the cause of death was by gunshot, guns kill people.

Ipso Facto ... Your determination is no more valid than the other ... "Gunshot" is a condition not a weapon ... The cause of death was "gunshot" not "gun" alone ... And still indicates an action resulting in a condition over a material item.

Yeah yeah, "guns don't kill people, bullets kill people"...

"Bullets don't kill people, the force of their action kills people"....

"The force of bullets doesn't kill people, the loss of blood from the damage kills people"...

Ad infinitum; what's the point?

 

[Pogo]

Without the intent to murder, the firearm is nothing more than a paper weight. If we were to address the criminal, the tool would be irrelevant. 100% of the firearms I own have never murdered another person.

And Countries with more guns per capita have murder rates that are lower than ours. Switzerland and Sweden come to mind immediately as proof of that. So, it's not the firearms, its the people.

Finally -- we agree. It is the people, our culture and our history. That's why I keep saying focusing on gun restriction laws is trying to treat the symptom while ignoring the disease.

What other countries murder rate is of no use in comparing gun ownership.
This is a country that believes in freedom plane and simple....I for one am tired of having more and more restriction placed on me because of the bad guy.

I have been yelling at my 30-30 (not really) all morning to go and shoot the neighbors dog and it just will not listen to me.

I've made no mention of murder "rates", either in this post or anywhere in the thread.

Perhaps you should quit yelling and take reading lessons.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When someone gets shot, they say they died by gunshot, not by human being. Therefore, ipso facto, if the cause of death was by gunshot, guns kill people.

Actually, they die when their brain stops working. I guess that means I can kill you by thinking about it.

 

[Pogo]

The irrational outrage and illogical posts from lefties here is a result of getting beaten numerous times by the NRA, the 2nd Amendment, and rational courts numerous times. It funny to read the abject stupidity that this butthurt has brought them to.

Refill your popcorn, 'cuz here's a rerun of that irrational outrage and illogical posts:

Do you live in the US?
If not, then why the fuck do you even care?
If so, then when are you leaving?

your COMMIE LEFTIST ANTI CONSTITUTION BULL SHIT isn't going to hold water here...
It is you CONSTITUTION HATING, RADICAL, COMMIE LEFTARDS that think everyone should be disarmed that are the minority.
Fuck off, COMMIE.

Most are for self defense, you ignorant shit stain on society. ... But to a moron, there is no difference between the initiation of violence and defending oneself.

Because you can not fix stupid. You just can not.

Given the fact that you have zero understanding of what living in America is like maybe you ought to keep your idiotic opinions to yourself....
You're a LIB-pussy waste of bandwidth.

were you born stupid or when you realized you were a liberal ??

I'm glad you're no longer living in the US, we have enough ignorant people here already.

These LIB-pussy-men-who-pee-sitting-down are fools. Whenever they are in any sort of harms way who do they run to crying like the babies they are?

Oh, thanks for offering yourself up as an example of the stupidity I was talking about.

Damn that liburrul butthurt.

 

[Spiderman]

When someone gets shot, they say they died by gunshot, not by human being. Therefore, ipso facto, if the cause of death was by gunshot, guns kill people.

Ipso Facto ... Your determination is no more valid than the other ... "Gunshot" is a condition not a weapon ... The cause of death was "gunshot" not "gun" alone ... And still indicates an action resulting in a condition over a material item.

Yeah yeah, "guns don't kill people, bullets kill people"...

"Bullets don't kill people, the force of their action kills people"....

"The force of bullets doesn't kill people, the loss of blood from the damage kills people"...

Ad infinitum; what's the point?

You can say that about any weapon including fists and feet.

The least common denominator in all murders is the person doing the killing.

People kill people

People have always killed people
People will always kill people.
It is human nature for people to kill other people.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There's a lot of guns in Sweden.

We have 300 million

How many do they have?

There are a good number of hunting weapons - rifles and shotguns - in Sweden. Some owned by my brothers in law. Neither they nor I know anyone, or have even heard of anyone, who owns a handgun.

Such international statistical comparisons as I have seen do not differentiate between hand guns and hunting weapons and are therefore not much use in this context.

Nobody in Sweden owns a handgun? Or should I just assume that you don't know anyone who is an officer in the army, a military police officer, a medic, or a postal worker, all of whom are issued 9mm SIG P220s?

 

[Spiderman]

Falling is not murder

2/3 of all MURDERS are caused by guns

To claim we can't do anything about gun violence untill all other possible causes of death are eliminated is ridiculous

How many of those are from legally owned registered firearms?

I'm all for getting rid of illegal guns as long as you leave law abiding people alone.

Gun Nuts love to spout the myth that murders are primarily committed by bad guys with unregistered guns.

2/3 of murders are by someone you know with domestic violence the major portion of those murders

Of all gun murders in 2010 and 2011 80% were committed by gangs in major urban areas.

So tell me again how most gun murders are domestic violence.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

the 911 call is also on the site

worth listening to

Listen to 911 caller report Grand Rapids man with holstered gun; federal lawsuit follows | MLive.com

Yeah well ... I think the dispatcher handled the caller better than the police handled the man.
If the responding officer had any guts at all and knew the law ... They should have approached him differently.
There was no cause for excessive alarm from the caller ... There was no indication of imminent danger.
Unlawful detention could be an issue, although I would be less likely to pursue that if the police officer isn't an ass.

There were two firearms involved in the initial encounter ... And the only person pointing one at somebody and threatening them at the same time was the responding officer.

.

When a police officer hears the word "gun" they automatically prepare for the worst.

Not to defend the officers action but just clarifying his mindset. I wasn't able to see the video for some reason it never came up on the link provided but I'm wondering how much experience this officer had. In my experiences it's the younger cops that are more apt to respond in an excessive fashion when faced with an armed individual.

Cops have a mindset that everyone is an enemy? Doesn't that say more about the cops than the people who have a gun?

In my experience it is the cops that think they have special privileges, an attitude that takes time to mature, not the inexperienced ones that are more likely to over react simply because someone knows the law better than they do.

 

[PredFan]

The downside of carrying a firearm:

You have to clean the gun more often.
The pretty copper jacket gets tarnished.
My keys scratch the finish.
Whenever I have to loosen my belt, I also have to loosen my holster.

Yeah that's all the downside I can think of.

The upside is that you will always have a chance to eat your gun every year the Preds don't come close to winning the Cup. Which is well... Every year.

Actually dumbass, the Orlando Predators (we had the name first btw), have won the Arena Bowl twice and been in the championship game five times. So suicide has never been a consideration.

You are a loser.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Our murder rate does not support that

yes, they do.

and most murders are commited NOT by firearms.

Bull shit

in 2011, per the FBI:

8583 murders were committed with firearms
4081 murders were committed without

Almost half as many are committed without firearms..a pretty significant percentage.

728 were committed with hands and feet.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

 

[PredFan]

When someone gets shot, they say they died by gunshot, not by human being. Therefore, ipso facto, if the cause of death was by gunshot, guns kill people.

Ipso Facto ... Your determination is no more valid than the other ... "Gunshot" is a condition not a weapon ... The cause of death was "gunshot" not "gun" alone ... And still indicates an action resulting in a condition over a material item.

Yeah yeah, "guns don't kill people, bullets kill people"...

"Bullets don't kill people, the force of their action kills people"....

"The force of bullets doesn't kill people, the loss of blood from the damage kills people"...

Ad infinitum; what's the point?

The point is that you are placing the blame on an inanimate object and ignoring the real problem. I'm surprised quite frankly, that you aren't smart enough to figure that out.

 

[rightwinger]

yes, they do.

and most murders are commited NOT by firearms.

Bull shit

in 2011, per the FBI:

8583 murders were committed with firearms
4081 murders were committed without

Almost half as many are committed without firearms..a pretty significant percentage.

728 were committed with hands and feet.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Two thirds of all homicides are committed by firearms. Not knives, not baseball bats, not hands and feet....guns

 

[PredFan]

The irrational outrage and illogical posts from lefties here is a result of getting beaten numerous times by the NRA, the 2nd Amendment, and rational courts numerous times. It funny to read the abject stupidity that this butthurt has brought them to.

Refill your popcorn, 'cuz here's a rerun of that irrational outrage and illogical posts:

Do you live in the US?
If not, then why the fuck do you even care?
If so, then when are you leaving?

These LIB-pussy-men-who-pee-sitting-down are fools. Whenever they are in any sort of harms way who do they run to crying like the babies they are?

Oh, thanks for offering yourself up as an example of the stupidity I was talking about.

Damn that liburrul butthurt.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit?

 

[Spiderman]

yes, they do.

and most murders are commited NOT by firearms.

Bull shit

in 2011, per the FBI:

8583 murders were committed with firearms
4081 murders were committed without

Almost half as many are committed without firearms..a pretty significant percentage.

728 were committed with hands and feet.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And I'll say it again

According to the CDC 80% of those gun murders are gang related and most likely perpetrated by criminals with illegally obtained guns.

So tell me how does placing restrictions on law abiding gun owners put a dent in that 80%?

 

[Spiderman]

Bull shit

in 2011, per the FBI:

8583 murders were committed with firearms
4081 murders were committed without

Almost half as many are committed without firearms..a pretty significant percentage.

728 were committed with hands and feet.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Two thirds of all homicides are committed by firearms. Not knives, not baseball bats, not hands and feet....guns

And 80% of that 2/3 are committed by gangs in major metropolitan areas.

Maybe you should concentrate your concern in those places and leave law abiding people alone.

 

[PredFan]

Bull shit

in 2011, per the FBI:

8583 murders were committed with firearms
4081 murders were committed without

Almost half as many are committed without firearms..a pretty significant percentage.

728 were committed with hands and feet.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Two thirds of all homicides are committed by firearms. Not knives, not baseball bats, not hands and feet....guns

ZERO are committed by firearms.

 

[PredFan]

Bull shit

in 2011, per the FBI:

8583 murders were committed with firearms
4081 murders were committed without

Almost half as many are committed without firearms..a pretty significant percentage.

728 were committed with hands and feet.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And I'll say it again

According to the CDC 80% of those gun murders are gang related and most likely perpetrated by criminals with illegally obtained guns.

So tell me how does placing restrictions on law abiding gun owners put a dent in that 80%?

It doesn't in any way.