The downside of carrying a firearm...

[PredFan]

Why can't gun lovers see a correlation between guns and gun violence?

The correlation is the criminal willful act.

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

Again you ignore the reasons why someone would kill someone else over this just to push an agenda.

 

[Bumberclyde]

How many of those are from legally owned registered firearms?

I'm all for getting rid of illegal guns as long as you leave law abiding people alone.

All guns in the US start out by being purchased legally, so in fact, it's the legal gun owners who are not responsible to take care of their shit, as well as too lax gun laws that don't punish the legal owners of the gun when it gets used in a crime.

Lying again?

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

Your link is excellent, it gives a lot of good reasons why criminals have guns. A straw purchase, when someone legally buys a gun to give to someone else, means either the laws are too lax on the sale of guns, or we don't hold the people making the straw purchase responsible for his gun that he just bought. Or both.

 

[Pogo]

Why can't gun lovers see a correlation between guns and gun violence?

The correlation is the criminal willful act.

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

Exactly. How many kids would Adam Lanza have gotten to without that technology? How many would Jared Loughner have killed? Charles Whitman? John Muhammad? James Holmes? Harris and Klebold? Etc etc etc... Immediacy is exactly the issue. As was said about Jovan Belcher, if he hadn't had ready access to a firearm, he and his wife and daughter would probably be alive today.

This ain't rocket surgery. But you know what, that's inconvenient, let's go back to subjects and verbs and pretend the indirect object is the villain.

 

[Pogo]

ZERO are committed by firearms.

Perfect example. Desperately trying to hang his hat on semantics so as to avoid at all costs the actual issue. Cheap rhetorical bullshit tactic employed by those bereft of argumentative basis.

What's the difference in you desperately trying to ignore the obvious in attempts to make the counterpoint?
You are an expert at this rhetoric ... But yours is the same argumentative bullshit.

I'm not making a point there. I'm shooting one down.

Yours,
Captain Obvious

 

[Nosmo King]

The correlation is the criminal willful act.

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

Again you ignore the reasons why someone would kill someone else over this just to push an agenda.

I'm not ignoring the fact that Florida hired and retired a police officer with serious mental issues. Furthermore, I do not ignore the efforts of the gun lobby to stop thorough, vigorous background checks. I wonder how many gun lovers would like to do away with all background checks because they find them inconvenient at best, or an affront to their rights at worst? All the while we have senseless, preventable shootings. A genuine public safety threat.

Why anyone would take a gun to a theater is beyond me. From John Wilkes booth to the current idiot cop in Tampa, has a gun in a theater ever proven to be a useful item? It seems every time guns are introduced, tragedy follows.

Before the advent of cheap handguns in the mid 1970s (remember the debate over "Saturday Night Specials"?) our society has been hobbled with gun toting idiots. And the solution proffered by the gun lobby? Why more guns and guns for everyone! It's like putting gasoline in fire extinguishers.

 

[PredFan]

The correlation is the criminal willful act.

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

Exactly. How many kids would Adam Lanza have gotten to without that technology? How many would Jared Loughner have killed? Charles Whitman? John Muhammad? James Holmes? Harris and Klebold? Etc etc etc... Immediacy is exactly the issue. As was said about Jovan Belcher, if he hadn't had ready access to a firearm, he and his wife and daughter would probably be alive today.

This ain't rocket surgery. But you know what, that's inconvenient, let's go back to subjects and verbs and pretend the indirect object is the villain.

Yeah, how many people would Ted Kazynski, Ted Bundy, Jeffry Dahmer, and John Wayne Gacy have killed if they didn't have a gun? Oh right, they didn't.

 

[PredFan]

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

Again you ignore the reasons why someone would kill someone else over this just to push an agenda.

I'm not ignoring the fact that Florida hired and retired a police officer with serious mental issues. Furthermore, I do not ignore the efforts of the gun lobby to stop thorough, vigorous background checks. I wonder how many gun lovers would like to do away with all background checks because they find them inconvenient at best, or an affront to their rights at worst? All the while we have senseless, preventable shootings. A genuine public safety threat.

Why anyone would take a gun to a theater is beyond me. From John Wilkes booth to the current idiot cop in Tampa, has a gun in a theater ever proven to be a useful item? It seems every time guns are introduced, tragedy follows.

Before the advent of cheap handguns in the mid 1970s (remember the debate over "Saturday Night Specials"?) our society has been hobbled with gun toting idiots. And the solution proffered by the gun lobby? Why more guns and guns for everyone! It's like putting gasoline in fire extinguishers.

Yes you are in fact pointing solely at guns and ignoring the reasons for these acts of violence. You may not care to admit it but that is exactly what you are doing.

 

[OODA_Loop]

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

4058 were killed by hands and feet since 2007 per the FBI.

 

[Pogo]

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

Exactly. How many kids would Adam Lanza have gotten to without that technology? How many would Jared Loughner have killed? Charles Whitman? John Muhammad? James Holmes? Harris and Klebold? Etc etc etc... Immediacy is exactly the issue. As was said about Jovan Belcher, if he hadn't had ready access to a firearm, he and his wife and daughter would probably be alive today.

This ain't rocket surgery. But you know what, that's inconvenient, let's go back to subjects and verbs and pretend the indirect object is the villain.

Yeah, how many people would Ted Kazynski, Ted Bundy, Jeffry Dahmer, and John Wayne Gacy have killed if they didn't have a gun? Oh right, they didn't.

What do you do, specialize in stupid fallacies? A discussion of gun violence is not a discussion of mail bombers, poisoners, butchers or freaking car drivers. Going for the Guinness Book of World Records on red herrings now, are we?

How long could I survive if I ate only rocks? Oh right, I can't. That proves nutrition is bullshit.

 

[Nosmo King]

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

Exactly. How many kids would Adam Lanza have gotten to without that technology? How many would Jared Loughner have killed? Charles Whitman? John Muhammad? James Holmes? Harris and Klebold? Etc etc etc... Immediacy is exactly the issue. As was said about Jovan Belcher, if he hadn't had ready access to a firearm, he and his wife and daughter would probably be alive today.

This ain't rocket surgery. But you know what, that's inconvenient, let's go back to subjects and verbs and pretend the indirect object is the villain.

Yeah, how many people would Ted Kazynski, Ted Bundy, Jeffry Dahmer, and John Wayne Gacy have killed if they didn't have a gun? Oh right, they didn't.

Do you really think that the crimes committed by your rogues gallery are really similar to the majority of gun deaths? Do you think that the actions taken by those on your list are relatable to the Tampa shooting or the Roswell shooting or the various Colorado shootings?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ipso Facto ... Your determination is no more valid than the other ... "Gunshot" is a condition not a weapon ... The cause of death was "gunshot" not "gun" alone ... And still indicates an action resulting in a condition over a material item.

Yeah yeah, "guns don't kill people, bullets kill people"...

"Bullets don't kill people, the force of their action kills people"....

"The force of bullets doesn't kill people, the loss of blood from the damage kills people"...

Ad infinitum; what's the point?

Guns don't die. People die.

Why can't gun lovers see a correlation between guns and gun violence?

I do see a correlation, I also know that correlation is not causation. I still see a causal connection between violence and large government policies. I might be wrong about it, bit no one is even addressing it.

 

[Nosmo King]

Again you ignore the reasons why someone would kill someone else over this just to push an agenda.

I'm not ignoring the fact that Florida hired and retired a police officer with serious mental issues. Furthermore, I do not ignore the efforts of the gun lobby to stop thorough, vigorous background checks. I wonder how many gun lovers would like to do away with all background checks because they find them inconvenient at best, or an affront to their rights at worst? All the while we have senseless, preventable shootings. A genuine public safety threat.

Why anyone would take a gun to a theater is beyond me. From John Wilkes booth to the current idiot cop in Tampa, has a gun in a theater ever proven to be a useful item? It seems every time guns are introduced, tragedy follows.

Before the advent of cheap handguns in the mid 1970s (remember the debate over "Saturday Night Specials"?) our society has been hobbled with gun toting idiots. And the solution proffered by the gun lobby? Why more guns and guns for everyone! It's like putting gasoline in fire extinguishers.

Yes you are in fact pointing solely at guns and ignoring the reasons for these acts of violence. You may not care to admit it but that is exactly what you are doing.

Because gun violence is caused by the presence of guns.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why can't gun lovers see a correlation between guns and gun violence?

The correlation is the criminal willful act.

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

The assailant is a cop. Until you are willing to disarm cops you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[Nosmo King]

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

4058 were killed by hands and feet since 2007 per the FBI.

Are guns a factor in gun violence? The smoke screen set up by gun lovers is tiresome and rhetorically inept. And therefore ineffective. Guns plus a heated situation equals a coroner's inquest. Sure people will continue to kill each other with any means necessary. But the next time I'm washing my hands or feet, I'll check first to make sure they are not loaded.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

All guns in the US start out by being purchased legally, so in fact, it's the legal gun owners who are not responsible to take care of their shit, as well as too lax gun laws that don't punish the legal owners of the gun when it gets used in a crime.

Lying again?

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

Your link is excellent, it gives a lot of good reasons why criminals have guns. A straw purchase, when someone legally buys a gun to give to someone else, means either the laws are too lax on the sale of guns, or we don't hold the people making the straw purchase responsible for his gun that he just bought. Or both.

Ultimately, they boil down to the government not enforcing the laws that already exist.

 

[Nosmo King]

The correlation is the criminal willful act.

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

The assailant is a cop. Until you are willing to disarm cops you don't have a leg to stand on.

The assailant was an insane cop. What's in his service record? What history of violence did he carry into that theater along with his handgun?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The correlation is the criminal willful act.

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

Exactly. How many kids would Adam Lanza have gotten to without that technology? How many would Jared Loughner have killed? Charles Whitman? John Muhammad? James Holmes? Harris and Klebold? Etc etc etc... Immediacy is exactly the issue. As was said about Jovan Belcher, if he hadn't had ready access to a firearm, he and his wife and daughter would probably be alive today.

This ain't rocket surgery. But you know what, that's inconvenient, let's go back to subjects and verbs and pretend the indirect object is the villain.

Yeah, if only the 9/11 terrorists hadn't had guns they wouldn't have been able to kill all those people.

 

[PredFan]

Exactly. How many kids would Adam Lanza have gotten to without that technology? How many would Jared Loughner have killed? Charles Whitman? John Muhammad? James Holmes? Harris and Klebold? Etc etc etc... Immediacy is exactly the issue. As was said about Jovan Belcher, if he hadn't had ready access to a firearm, he and his wife and daughter would probably be alive today.

This ain't rocket surgery. But you know what, that's inconvenient, let's go back to subjects and verbs and pretend the indirect object is the villain.

Yeah, how many people would Ted Kazynski, Ted Bundy, Jeffry Dahmer, and John Wayne Gacy have killed if they didn't have a gun? Oh right, they didn't.

What do you do, specialize in stupid fallacies? A discussion of gun violence is not a discussion of mail bombers, poisoners, butchers or freaking car drivers. Going for the Guinness Book of World Records on red herrings now, are we?

How long could I survive if I ate only rocks? Oh right, I can't. That proves nutrition is bullshit.

What's the matter with you? Brain not functioning well today? I mentioned killers who didn't use guns to show how your argument was invalid. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't correct.

Nobody is buying your bull shit.

 

[Vox]

31,076 Americans won the lottery twice last year?

stop lying. 18K of those were suicides - they do not count.

18,000 deaths by gun suicide in one year?

somebody give some water to this fake American - he /she is choking.

 

[OODA_Loop]

And the solution proffered by the gun lobby? Why more guns and guns for everyone! It's like putting gasoline in fire extinguishers.

Not really.

NRA pushed for NCIS and the expansion of NCIS.

The NRA, long considered a feared and powerful gun-rights lobby, allied itself with the most ardent anti-gun-rights forces in the House to quickly push through a bill that would massively increase the NICS Index -- the database of people who cannot pass an FBI background check for purchase of a firearm.

NICS Improvement Details