The downside of carrying a firearm...

[PredFan]

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

The assailant is a cop. Until you are willing to disarm cops you don't have a leg to stand on.

The assailant was an insane cop. What's in his service record? What history of violence did he carry into that theater along with his handgun?

You are calling him an insane cop now, after the fact. What proof do you have that he didn't have a stellar record as an officer?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

Again you ignore the reasons why someone would kill someone else over this just to push an agenda.

I'm not ignoring the fact that Florida hired and retired a police officer with serious mental issues. Furthermore, I do not ignore the efforts of the gun lobby to stop thorough, vigorous background checks. I wonder how many gun lovers would like to do away with all background checks because they find them inconvenient at best, or an affront to their rights at worst? All the while we have senseless, preventable shootings. A genuine public safety threat.

Why anyone would take a gun to a theater is beyond me. From John Wilkes booth to the current idiot cop in Tampa, has a gun in a theater ever proven to be a useful item? It seems every time guns are introduced, tragedy follows.

Before the advent of cheap handguns in the mid 1970s (remember the debate over "Saturday Night Specials"?) our society has been hobbled with gun toting idiots. And the solution proffered by the gun lobby? Why more guns and guns for everyone! It's like putting gasoline in fire extinguishers.

The NRA supports background checks. Ask Obama if you don't want to believe me.

The rest of your post makes as much sense as your claim that the "gun lobby" opposes background checks.

 

[BlackSand]

Perfect example. Desperately trying to hang his hat on semantics so as to avoid at all costs the actual issue. Cheap rhetorical bullshit tactic employed by those bereft of argumentative basis.

What's the difference in you desperately trying to ignore the obvious in attempts to make the counterpoint?
You are an expert at this rhetoric ... But yours is the same argumentative bullshit.

I'm not making a point there. I'm shooting one down.

Yours,
Captain Obvious

In generating a response demonstrating an emphasis in contrast to the same applicable argument ... You did in fact make a counterpoint, whether or not you intended to ... And I did identify it as a counterpoint ... not a point.

.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm not ignoring the fact that Florida hired and retired a police officer with serious mental issues. Furthermore, I do not ignore the efforts of the gun lobby to stop thorough, vigorous background checks. I wonder how many gun lovers would like to do away with all background checks because they find them inconvenient at best, or an affront to their rights at worst? All the while we have senseless, preventable shootings. A genuine public safety threat.

Why anyone would take a gun to a theater is beyond me. From John Wilkes booth to the current idiot cop in Tampa, has a gun in a theater ever proven to be a useful item? It seems every time guns are introduced, tragedy follows.

Before the advent of cheap handguns in the mid 1970s (remember the debate over "Saturday Night Specials"?) our society has been hobbled with gun toting idiots. And the solution proffered by the gun lobby? Why more guns and guns for everyone! It's like putting gasoline in fire extinguishers.

Yes you are in fact pointing solely at guns and ignoring the reasons for these acts of violence. You may not care to admit it but that is exactly what you are doing.

Because gun violence is caused by the presence of guns.

That explains all the shootings at gun shows.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Again you ignore the reasons why someone would kill someone else over this just to push an agenda.

I'm not ignoring the fact that Florida hired and retired a police officer with serious mental issues. Furthermore, I do not ignore the efforts of the gun lobby to stop thorough, vigorous background checks. I wonder how many gun lovers would like to do away with all background checks because they find them inconvenient at best, or an affront to their rights at worst? All the while we have senseless, preventable shootings. A genuine public safety threat.

Why anyone would take a gun to a theater is beyond me. From John Wilkes booth to the current idiot cop in Tampa, has a gun in a theater ever proven to be a useful item? It seems every time guns are introduced, tragedy follows.

Before the advent of cheap handguns in the mid 1970s (remember the debate over "Saturday Night Specials"?) our society has been hobbled with gun toting idiots. And the solution proffered by the gun lobby? Why more guns and guns for everyone! It's like putting gasoline in fire extinguishers.

The NRA supports background checks. Ask Obama if you don't want to believe me.

The rest of your post makes as much sense as your claim that the "gun lobby" opposes background checks.

NRA and Congress Consider Tougher Background Checks for Gun Buys | Threat Level | Wired.com

NRA and Congress Consider Tougher Background Checks for Gun Buys

In the wake of the deadliest shooting tragedy in American history, the National Rifle Association and top Democrats have opened a dialogue about how to beef up the database that gun vendors use to check a potential buyer’s criminal and mental health background. Even though law enforcement and mental health authorities knew about the disturbed state of Virgina Tech shooter Cho Seung Hui two years before Monday’s massacre, Cho easily purchased two handguns in Virginia, a state with historically lax gun laws.

 

[Nosmo King]

Yes you are in fact pointing solely at guns and ignoring the reasons for these acts of violence. You may not care to admit it but that is exactly what you are doing.

Because gun violence is caused by the presence of guns.

That explains all the shootings at gun shows.

There was a shooting at a gun shop here in Pennsylvania just last week.

 

[OODA_Loop]

The rest of your post makes as much sense as your claim that the "gun lobby" opposes background checks.

But its okay to lie or make claims not know what your talking about it if it feels really right.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The correlation is immediacy. A handy gun, a heated situation equals murder. A heated situation and a bat, a car, a fist equals a hospital stay at worst. But usually not a murder. Why? Because the gun is a deadly weapon that can be used without physical contact with the victim.

How many dead Floridians would there be in that movie theater if the assailant was armed with nothing but his fists?

The assailant is a cop. Until you are willing to disarm cops you don't have a leg to stand on.

The assailant was an insane cop. What's in his service record? What history of violence did he carry into that theater along with his handgun?

He was a captain and a member of SWAT. That means that, in addition to the extensive background and psych tests he went through to be a cop, he had to pass through extra screening, and receive additional training, to handle all sorts of different situations that are not in the purview of a beat cop. I guess they forgot to cover parents with cell phones.

Keep arguing with me, the more you argue, the better my case.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The assailant is a cop. Until you are willing to disarm cops you don't have a leg to stand on.

The assailant was an insane cop. What's in his service record? What history of violence did he carry into that theater along with his handgun?

You are calling him an insane cop now, after the fact. What proof do you have that he didn't have a stellar record as an officer?

Absolutely none.

Me, I can point to the fact that he was a SWAT captain if I want to make my point, which is that police resort to lethal force way too often, but all Nosmo has is a lame attempt to blame the gun he used.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Because gun violence is caused by the presence of guns.

That explains all the shootings at gun shows.

There was a shooting at a gun shop here in Pennsylvania just last week.

And that proves me right, doesn't it?

 

[OODA_Loop]

After due process execute the cop and broadcast it in theatres across the nation as a PSA.

 

[Spiderman]

31,076 Americans won the lottery twice last year?

stop lying. 18K of those were suicides - they do not count.

18,000 deaths by gun suicide in one year?

Suicide is not a violent crime.

BTW women find men who use emoticons less attractive than those who don't

 

[9thIDdoc]

Bull shit

in 2011, per the FBI:

8583 murders were committed with firearms
4081 murders were committed without

Almost half as many are committed without firearms..a pretty significant percentage.

728 were committed with hands and feet.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Two thirds of all homicides are committed by firearms. Not knives, not baseball bats, not hands and feet....guns

The point you're missing is that far from all homicides are murder. Justifiable homicides include those that stop a murder (self defense or defense of others).

 

[OODA_Loop]

in 2011, per the FBI:

8583 murders were committed with firearms
4081 murders were committed without

Almost half as many are committed without firearms..a pretty significant percentage.

728 were committed with hands and feet.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Two thirds of all homicides are committed by firearms. Not knives, not baseball bats, not hands and feet....guns

The point you're missing is that far from all homicides are murder. Justifiable homicides include those that stop a murder (self defense or defense of others).

Great point.

 

[jon_berzerk]

In Part 3 the police officer said he didn't have a problem with the man exercising open carry if he called the department ahead of time and let them know.
The best part was when the supervisor showed up and the responding officer asked the supervisor what do to.

"Dust him off and let him go" ... Were the first words out of the Supervisor on the matter.

I am not knocking the police for stopping someone if they think there is probable cause ... But that doesn't mean you lecture them and try to rewrite the law in the process.
At the same time I wouldn't have argued with the police officer ... Requested a supervisor on scene ... And asked the cop to shut up until the supervisor got there.

.

the 911 call is also on the site

worth listening to

Listen to 911 caller report Grand Rapids man with holstered gun; federal lawsuit follows | MLive.com

Yeah well ... I think the dispatcher handled the caller better than the police handled the man.
If the responding officer had any guts at all and knew the law ... They should have approached him differently.
There was no cause for excessive alarm from the caller ... There was no indication of imminent danger.
Unlawful detention could be an issue, although I would be less likely to pursue that if the police officer isn't an ass.

There were two firearms involved in the initial encounter ... And the only person pointing one at somebody and threatening them at the same time was the responding officer.

.

the dispatcher certainly did appear more professional and knowledgeable then the officer

the kid had to set the officer straight every step of the way

including when the officer told him to reload his firearm after he left

the kid said he could not do that because then he would be brandishing a firearm

 

[jon_berzerk]

the 911 call is also on the site

worth listening to

Listen to 911 caller report Grand Rapids man with holstered gun; federal lawsuit follows | MLive.com

Yeah well ... I think the dispatcher handled the caller better than the police handled the man.
If the responding officer had any guts at all and knew the law ... They should have approached him differently.
There was no cause for excessive alarm from the caller ... There was no indication of imminent danger.
Unlawful detention could be an issue, although I would be less likely to pursue that if the police officer isn't an ass.

There were two firearms involved in the initial encounter ... And the only person pointing one at somebody and threatening them at the same time was the responding officer.

.

When a police officer hears the word "gun" they automatically prepare for the worst.

Not to defend the officers action but just clarifying his mindset. I wasn't able to see the video for some reason it never came up on the link provided but I'm wondering how much experience this officer had. In my experiences it's the younger cops that are more apt to respond in an excessive fashion when faced with an armed individual.

I wasn't able to see the video for some reason it never came up on the link provided but I'm wondering how much experience this officer had.

the blaze has a video of the incident but not the 911 call

 

[Nosmo King]

The assailant is a cop. Until you are willing to disarm cops you don't have a leg to stand on.

The assailant was an insane cop. What's in his service record? What history of violence did he carry into that theater along with his handgun?

You are calling him an insane cop now, after the fact. What proof do you have that he didn't have a stellar record as an officer?

That's precisely what I want to know. Does he have a history of violence? We're talking about Tampa Florida here. Not considered the Athens of the Fulf Coast. How could someone capable of such bad decision making be trusted as a police officer?

 

[Nosmo King]

The assailant is a cop. Until you are willing to disarm cops you don't have a leg to stand on.

The assailant was an insane cop. What's in his service record? What history of violence did he carry into that theater along with his handgun?

He was a captain and a member of SWAT. That means that, in addition to the extensive background and psych tests he went through to be a cop, he had to pass through extra screening, and receive additional training, to handle all sorts of different situations that are not in the purview of a beat cop. I guess they forgot to cover parents with cell phones.

Keep arguing with me, the more you argue, the better my case.

Are you trying to justify the shooting? A SWAT team member is faced down with a cell phone and movie theater popcorn and then he makes the choice to draw and fire?!? And somehow this all makes sense?

 

[Nosmo King]

That explains all the shootings at gun shows.

There was a shooting at a gun shop here in Pennsylvania just last week.

And that proves me right, doesn't it?

Hardly! It was an armed assault on the clerk at a gun shop. The favored example of gun lovers. The presence of guns escalates the chances of gun violence.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

yes, we are. Safe from the government. And thats the exact reason for the 2nd amendment.

Very true.....

Our society is suffering from the Gubmint gunning down 13,000 Americans a year

The 2nd amendment was about protecting Americans from redcoats and indians. Since neither is now a threat, the 2nd amendment is now obsolete.

I understand that words had different meanings back then, but when they said "all enemies, foreign or domestic", if they meant redcoats and Indians why didn't they save ink?