The Electoral College flaunting the will of the people never ends well!

[JoeB131]

Because they are deaf, dumb, and blind. They have ignored the people of this country for a long time. Part of it is an inability to care about the middle class. Part of it is a elitist view of the world where they feel their opinion is the only one that mattered, and part of it is they are truly not that bright. They simply couldn't release the reigns of power and allow the younger generation to start taking over.

I think you can make an argument that the Democrats didn't pay attention to the angst of the uneducated white working class.

But Trumpenfuhrer outright lied to them, and they bought it.

Here's the thing. Those manufacturing jobs are NEVER coming back for uneducated whites. Those jobs are done by machines now, and if you don't have the education to run the machine, you aren't getting that job.

But the real problem you guys have. You've inherited an economy that's in pretty good shape...and people are going to notice when Trump tanks it. (We are probably going to have a recession in 2018, regardless, but Trump will make it worse.)

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm not a Clinton supporter, Contumnacious...my point was that if people are unhappy with the outcome of this election...or any other election for that matter...they need to take a long hard look at what their Party is doing that made that happen and ask if change is needed. The Democrats just put Nancy Pelosi back in charge of the Democrats in the House which begs the question...WHY?

Why not? A majority voted for Hillary, and the dumb-ass Inbred Cleetuses who voted for Trumpenfuhrer in WI, MI and PA didn't do so because they just hate Pelosi soooooo much.

they voted for him because Trump promised them that he'd bring back their daddy's long extinct job.

And when they find out that isn't going to happen no matter how much Trump bribes billionaires with our tax dollars, they are going to turn on him pretty viciously.

And you think Nancy Pelosi is the answer for Democrats? She's a complete ditz, Joey! If the people of San Francisco are stupid enough to elect her to Congress that's one thing but for Democrats as a national party to keep her as one of their leaders is appalling at this point. You guys need new leadership so badly it's not even funny and following this election that's never been more obvious yet you don't seem to care.

 

[Oldstyle]

Because they are deaf, dumb, and blind. They have ignored the people of this country for a long time. Part of it is an inability to care about the middle class. Part of it is a elitist view of the world where they feel their opinion is the only one that mattered, and part of it is they are truly not that bright. They simply couldn't release the reigns of power and allow the younger generation to start taking over.

I think you can make an argument that the Democrats didn't pay attention to the angst of the uneducated white working class.

But Trumpenfuhrer outright lied to them, and they bought it.

Here's the thing. Those manufacturing jobs are NEVER coming back for uneducated whites. Those jobs are done by machines now, and if you don't have the education to run the machine, you aren't getting that job.

But the real problem you guys have. You've inherited an economy that's in pretty good shape...and people are going to notice when Trump tanks it. (We are probably going to have a recession in 2018, regardless, but Trump will make it worse.)

Interesting...for eight straight years the Fed decided that the economy was too weak to even have the tiniest interest rate increase but when Trump gets elected the very first thing that happens...after the stock market soars to record highs...is that the Fed declares it will increase interest rates now! Trump isn't even in office yet but people in the financial world are already projecting him to be the answer to a lot of problems.

You want Trump to fail because if he doesn't you liberals won't be able to get elected "town dog catcher" come next election cycle!

 

[Wyatt earp]

Blah, bah, blah. Even Jesus said the rain comes for the heathens as well as the saints. You will be fine other then being irritated by that nasty yeast infection you and your alter ego have. You are part of america to, so you two will benefit from america being great again as well, but if it makes you feel better, just send it to the DNC. No one says you have to like being better off.

Except America won't be "Great" under Trumpenfuhrer. Economists say his policies will be a disaster. Now, I'll probably be in a better position, as I am white, male, straight and college educated with a veteran's preference in hiring. But Trump is going to be the biggest shit sandwich for America since... Well, probably Herbert Hoover.

You already know Joe, no one at work likes your lasdaisical attitude, you are what us coworkers call a cancer at work and you don't even realize it.


.

 

[blastoff]

We are hearing a lot of smoke from the Right Wing about the sanctity of the Electoral College, and how the Founders truly understood that the Will of the People could not be trusted.

Okay, so let's look at that. Let's look at the three times that someone became President because they won the electoral College while losing the Popular Vote.

·
·
·​

2000 - George W. Bush - Ignored warnings of an imminent terror attack,giving us the worst terror incident in history.

Not that the rest of your post is much better, but this particular claim is so ridiculously easy to respond to.

Mr. Bush wasn't even inaugurated until 2001. He barely had time to settle into the role when the 9/11 attacks happened.

There was another terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, by those associated with the perpetrators of the 9/11 attack, in 1993; under Bill Clinton's watch; eight years before the 9/11 attacks. We knew, then, that there was an organized Islamist terrorist group, that for whatever reason, wanted to bring down the World Trade Center. They had made one attempt, and we had every reason to expect that there'd be another.

President Clinton's administration had from there to the end of his term, seven years, to address this threat. He did nothing, and predictably, another attack did occur, with devastating results. Though the attack finally happened early in the Bush Administration, it was the Clinton Administration's neglect that allowed it to happen.

Bush was told that the attack was going to happen, but had his eyes in Iraq to impress daddy.

Link?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Why didn't the will of the people (the only thing that counts in a free society, as you say) count when it came to gay marriage?

It did- ten years ago when that's what people wanted. And when people changed their mined, we changed the law. (you do know a majority supports gay marriage now, right?)

In every instance where the issue was put to a democratic vote of the people, the people soundly rejected the idea of giving official recognition to sick, immoral homosexual mockeries of marriage. Even here in California, it was put to a vote twice, and both times, the outcome was the same.

It was only the corrupt acts of corrupt judges, not accountable to the people, that gave this evil the color of law, in open defiance of the clearly-expressed will of the people.

 

[hadit]

To truly understand the will of the people, look at the election map. The Democrat areas are narrowly defined at the coasts. The People who populate this country will never agree to have their voices silenced and be ruled by the congested cities along the coast.

When democrats are a national party again they can talk about the will of the people.

When you win the national vote by 3 million, you are a national party.

The popular vote doesn't count when unpopular things that democrats champion are on the ballot. Then it's "the will of the people be damned".

What about the Will of the People when it comes to School Vouchers?
Public Opinion Data: Americans Want School Choice
The Majority of Americans Want Choice. 1. If offered a full-tuition voucher, 56 percent of Americans would select a private school. .

That is the correct motorcycle.

 

[blastoff]

To truly understand the will of the people, look at the election map. The Democrat areas are narrowly defined at the coasts. The People who populate this country will never agree to have their voices silenced and be ruled by the congested cities along the coast.

When democrats are a national party again they can talk about the will of the people.

When you win the national vote by 3 million, you are a national party.

When you lose the White House, Senate, House, all but a handful of governorships, and 900 state legislature seats the tide is about to take you under, dimocrats. Hope y'all can swim.

 

[hadit]

Given that, what would have been an appropriate response that would have actually prevented 9/11? Be specific and keep in mind that at the time, that's the ONLY info you have. You have no idea if they are actually going to do it, and if they are, when or where or what flights they might target. Go.

Increase security at the Airports. Make inquiries at the flight schools if you have any Arab students that are acting suspiciously.

Do something other than say to the CIA Briefer, "Well, you've covered your ass", which is exactly what Bush said tot he CIA Briefer.

Funny, I don't recall seeing you in the meeting. Were you hiding in the corner again?

IOW, you would have engaged in ethnic profiling and gotten your administration in political trouble. Strike one.

You would have inconvenienced everyone taking flights and probably not caught the small knives they brought on board. We still miss a lot of stuff when security is tested. Strike two.

You would have alerted the attackers that you were on to them and they would likely have switched to a different method of attack. Remember that the WTC was attacked first by a truck bomb. Strike three.

Basically, you would have caused a great deal of angst and frustration and done nothing to prevent the attacks. And this is with the benefit of hindsight. If you were in Bush's shoes and been confronted with dozens of potential threats every single day, you would have reacted in much the same manner as he did. You seem to think that the president faces no threats except the one that actually materializes.

Why didn't the will of the people (the only thing that counts in a free society, as you say) count when it came to gay marriage?

It did- ten years ago when that's what people wanted. And when people changed their mined, we changed the law. (you do know a majority supports gay marriage now, right?)

That's not how it was implemented, was it? If attitudes were shifting, the best and least contentious way to implement something is to let attitudes shift until a majority accepts the idea, then let legislation follow. But that's not what democrats did. When the people voted against gay marriage, democrats went to court to overturn their express will and the majority vote. Sorry, but majority votes to democrats are only tools to be used when convenient and discarded when not useful.

Yeah, the democrats really took it in the shorts, didn't they?

No, America took it in the shorts. Some of you are just too fucking stupid to realize how badly you all fucked it up.

But you will.

Tissue? We did see a once proud political party (the DNC) reduced to a whimpering pile. I'm sure they'll come back at some point because these things are cyclical, but the amount of time it takes for that to happen is dependent on how much reflection they are willing to do. The longer they keep wailing about everything except the weakness of their candidate and ideas, the longer it will take to get back in power. Until they shed themselves of the Clintons, Pelosi, Reid, etc, they will have an uphill battle.

The Republicans have already started on that process, the democrats have yet to do so.

 

[hadit]

Because they are deaf, dumb, and blind. They have ignored the people of this country for a long time. Part of it is an inability to care about the middle class. Part of it is a elitist view of the world where they feel their opinion is the only one that mattered, and part of it is they are truly not that bright. They simply couldn't release the reigns of power and allow the younger generation to start taking over.

I think you can make an argument that the Democrats didn't pay attention to the angst of the uneducated white working class.

But Trumpenfuhrer outright lied to them, and they bought it.

Here's the thing. Those manufacturing jobs are NEVER coming back for uneducated whites. Those jobs are done by machines now, and if you don't have the education to run the machine, you aren't getting that job.

There's no doubt about that. The manufacturing industry is shifting from manual labor to automation world wide, and the days of a guy coming out of high school, working shifts on the assembly line, putting his kids through college and retiring comfortably are gone. Might as well stop whining about "DEY SENT DA YOBS TA CHINA", because they would have disappeared anyway.

But the real problem you guys have. You've inherited an economy that's in pretty good shape...and people are going to notice when Trump tanks it. (We are probably going to have a recession in 2018, regardless, but Trump will make it worse.)

Actually, he'll probably ride the growing economy to a second term. After 8 years of anemic performance under Obama, even a moderately growing economy will be exciting to the voters.

 

[LeftofLeft]

We are hearing a lot of smoke from the Right Wing about the sanctity of the Electoral College, and how the Founders truly understood that the Will of the People could not be trusted.

Okay, so let's look at that. Let's look at the three times that someone became President because they won the electoral College while losing the Popular Vote.

1876- Rutherford B. Hayes. Won the electoral college because a commission awarded several states to him AFTER he promised to withdraw the remaining troops from the South and ended Reconstruction. As a result, the South was able to roll back the rights of African Americans with impunity and gave us 100 years of Jim Crow. Clearly one of the worst Presidents we've ever had.

1888 - Benjamin Harrison- Made good on a promise to pay lifetime benefits to Civil War Veterans, giving America its first "Billion Dollar Budget". Gave us a recession in 1890 that lead to the Panic of 1893 right before he left office,

2000 - George W. Bush - Ignored warnings of an imminent terror attack,giving us the worst terror incident in history. Went to war on a lie, killing 5000 Americans and a million Iraqis. Fumbled the response to a major hurricane, rendering a major city uninhabitable. And, oh, yes, gave us the worst recession in 80 years by letting his Wall Street Cronies run amok. easily the worst president ever.

So don't worry, guys. This time will be different! I'm sure the Game Show Host who kept a copy of Hitler's speeches next to his bed will do just fine. No, really.

Your cherry picking on Bush says everything about you. When you give 100% passes to Clinton 9/11 and Nagin on Katrina, how can people take you seriously? If Clinton was clean on 9/11, why did his former National Security Advisor feel compelled to go into the National Archives to steal and/or destroy documents pertaining to 9/11? Why did Clinton's Deputy Attorney General avoid the hot seat and hide behind the 9/11 Commission? Why is Ray Nagin in prison?

 

[keepitreal]

2000 - George W. Bush - Ignored warnings of an imminent terror attack,giving us the worst terror incident in history. Went to war on a lie, killing 5000 Americans and a million Iraqis. Fumbled the response to a major hurricane, rendering a major city uninhabitable. And, oh, yes, gave us the worst recession in 80 years by letting his Wall Street Cronies run amok. easily the worst president ever.

You know...I thought Bush was the worst...until Obama

Your only as good as the people you're surrounded by.
IMHO, Cheney ran the show.
Him and Halliburton, crooked as all hell.

Then, you have Congress...wtf...the whole government
needs to drained...from the top down, state & federal
We have no one to blame but ourselves....
The fault first lies with the complacency of the people!

 

[blastoff]

Not that the rest of your post is much better, but this particular claim is so ridiculously easy to respond to.

Mr. Bush wasn't even inaugurated until 2001. He barely had time to settle into the role when the 9/11 attacks happened.

Okay... let's look at that. on August 6, 2001, A month before the Attack, he got a breifing from the CIA that said, "Bin Laden Determined to Attack US", that SPECIFICALLY mentioned hijacking airplanes as a possible scheme Al Qaeda might try.

Bush's response, "Well, you've covered your ass!" and then he went fishing.

There was another terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, by those associated with the perpetrators of the 9/11 attack, in 1993; under Bill Clinton's watch; eight years before the 9/11 attacks. We knew, then, that there was an organized Islamist terrorist group, that for whatever reason, wanted to bring down the World Trade Center. They had made one attempt, and we had every reason to expect that there'd be another.

Actually, it's kind of a stretch to say that the guys responsible for the 1993 attack were the same bunch, unless you are a racist asshole who thinks Muslims are the Borg, and they have a hive mind or something. Now, a couple of points.

The best time to stop Bin Laden was when Ronnie Reagan was calling him a "Freedom Fighter" and the CIA was giving him weapons.

Second, Clinton was the guy who tried to take down Bin Laden. And Republicans accused him of "Wagging the Dog" because, oh my god, he got a blow job from an intern and that was more important, guys!

Okay, yeah let's look at that August 6 PDB, Joey.

But first...anything bold is my emphasis added. Think of it as a public service to help you pay more attention to it and thus, hopefully, comprehend its meaning. Also, you obviously need help with the meaning of...

Corroborate: confirm or give support to a statement, theory, or finding.
Synonyms: verify, authenticate, validate, certify, ratify...

Hold on now. This is where the important stuff starts.

The correct title of the PDB was..."Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US"

It began, "Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate Bin Ladin since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US." That means it had been his wish for four and a half years at that point, or from the beginning of William Jefferson Clinton's second term.

The PDB then goes on to list various things BL or his followers had reportedly outlined as potential threats and other allegations, etc. Following them is this paragraph:

" We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a (redacted) service in 1998 saying that Bin Ladin wanted to hijack a US aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Sheikh" Omar Abdul Rahman and other US held extremists."

What that means, Joey, is they were not able to verify a hijacking threat, but if one did exist its purpose was for what traditionally had been the reason such people hijack planes which was to use it and the souls onboard as bargaining chips for, in this case, the release of a comrade, but in other instances for money, weapons, or other demands.

Final two paragraphs of the PDB...

"Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York."

"The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full-field investigations throughout the US that it considers Bin Laden-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group of Bin Laden supporters was in the US planning attacks with explosives."

So we've got patterns the FBI identified as suspicious and consistent with hijackings or other types of attacks, perhaps on federal buildings in New York. Attacks by armed gunmen on those buildings, or attacks with explosives? Don't know, nothing specifically mentioned. As for hijackings, everyone on the planet knew of them as I described above. It was on no one's radar hijacked planes would be used as kamikaze-like weapons of mass murder by seriously horny Islamic terrorists. And even as of today no buildings, in New York or elsewhere, have been blown up in spite of "reports" from fifteen years ago now.

What the PDB told Bush was there were reports of various uncorroborated terrorist scenarios out there, but nothing definite as to who, what, when, where or how. Just stuff they've heard about or gotten from other sources and no one having any idea what any of it really meant, which is why the FBI had those 70 full-field investigations going on, trying to make sense out of it all or ascertain something concrete enough to marshall our various assets against in order to thwart.

There, Joey. Maybe next time before you lead with your chin with the August 6 PDB as your "proof" you'll realize it's your ticket to ending up flat on your back on the canvas, again. But I doubt it.

 

[JoeB131]

And you think Nancy Pelosi is the answer for Democrats? She's a complete ditz, Joey! If the people of San Francisco are stupid enough to elect her to Congress that's one thing but for Democrats as a national party to keep her as one of their leaders is appalling at this point. You guys need new leadership so badly it's not even funny and following this election that's never been more obvious yet you don't seem to care.

Buddy, your side made Newt Gingrich Speaker. When you realized what a huge mistake that was, you made Denny Hastert speaker... you know, the GUY WHO WAS MOLESTING CHILDREN!!!!

Frankly, I don't agree with Pelosi on much, but she a much better human being than the filth you've been putting up.

Interesting...for eight straight years the Fed decided that the economy was too weak to even have the tiniest interest rate increase but when Trump gets elected the very first thing that happens...after the stock market soars to record highs...is that the Fed declares it will increase interest rates now! Trump isn't even in office yet but people in the financial world are already projecting him to be the answer to a lot of problems.

More like the banking industry couldn't sustain 0 interest.

Trump isn't in office, but most smart people are pulling the plug.

 

[JoeB131]

You know...I thought Bush was the worst...until Obama

Yeah,I know, man... Obama was black. And a Muslim.

Shut the fuck up, racist twit.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, yeah let's look at that August 6 PDB, Joey.

But first...anything bold is my emphasis added. Think of it as a public service to help you pay more attention to it and thus, hopefully, comprehend its meaning. Also, you obviously need help with the meaning of...

Yawn.... I'm really sorry you wasted your time with it... since I'm not botherign to read it.

The CIA told Bush Al Qaeda might hijack airplanes. Bush did- NOTHING.

 

[JoeB131]

There's no doubt about that. The manufacturing industry is shifting from manual labor to automation world wide, and the days of a guy coming out of high school, working shifts on the assembly line, putting his kids through college and retiring comfortably are gone. Might as well stop whining about "DEY SENT DA YOBS TA CHINA", because they would have disappeared anyway.

yet a whole lot of people voted for Trump on his promises to bring those jobs back.

Won't they be surprised?

Actually, he'll probably ride the growing economy to a second term. After 8 years of anemic performance under Obama, even a moderately growing economy will be exciting to the voters.

Not sure what you base any of that on besides wishful thinking. If anything, we are probably overdue for a recession. Most people are predicting one will happen in 2018.

 

[martybegan]

Okay, yeah let's look at that August 6 PDB, Joey.

But first...anything bold is my emphasis added. Think of it as a public service to help you pay more attention to it and thus, hopefully, comprehend its meaning. Also, you obviously need help with the meaning of...

Yawn.... I'm really sorry you wasted your time with it... since I'm not botherign to read it.

The CIA told Bush Al Qaeda might hijack airplanes. Bush did- NOTHING.

That is public knowledge. We don't know of any covert things he might have done, because they are covert.

What should have he done? Shut down US airspace for months?

 

[Tom Horn]

Bush was told that the attack was going to happen, but had his eyes in Iraq to impress daddy.

Was he told which day, which city, which airline, what the targets were, how many were involved?

If you're going to be a liar, at least make a half-hearted attempt to sell it.

 

[Tom Horn]

View attachment 102295​

I'm stealing this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^