The existence of God.....and politics

[nat4900]

On another thread one of the usual right wing poster stated: "Prove to me that God does not exist..." Interesting challenge, if somewhat inane. In the political context, the poster was trying.....as usual and ad nauseum...to imply that Obama is a god-less president......which, were it "true," should actually be a confirmation that we are a secular nation and, as some other nutty right wingers have stated, if Obama were a closet-Muslim, that he would certainly NOT be god-less.

Anyway, the question reminded me of Blaise Pascal "answer" to such a query, called, Pascal's Wager....and it is important to especially note that Pascal was emphasizing the "wager" or "gamble" part of his theory......He stated:

If you don't believe in God and God indeed does not exist, there is no loss.

If you don't believe in God and God DOES exist, you're in deep trouble.

If you believe in God, and God does not exist, you've wasted some considerable time in your adoration of a non-existent god.

Finally, if you DO believe in God and God DOES exist, you've won whatever prize your adoration and religious beliefs claim to offer.

Are you then willing to "gamble"???

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Wasting your life believing a lie because you might be rewarded after death is no way to live. What God worthy of respect would want to gain believers that way and why would any God that did be worthy of my faith? Christians treat God like a candy machine, that takes prayers.

Any God worthy of my respect would be top of the list for understanding why I didn't believe in Him, and any God that didn't understand I wouldn't respect.

 

[nat4900]

Wasting your life believing a lie because you might be rewarded after death is no way to live. What God worthy of respect would want to gain believers that way and why would any God that did be worthy of my faith? Christians treat God like a candy machine, that takes prayers.

Any God worthy of my respect would be top of the list for understanding why I didn't believe in Him, and any God that didn't understand I wouldn't respect.

Good and accurate synopsis of what Nietzsche also believed.....(of course, he was in an insane asylum when he wrote his more famous tomes, LOL,,,)

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Wasting your life believing a lie because you might be rewarded after death is no way to live. What God worthy of respect would want to gain believers that way and why would any God that did be worthy of my faith? Christians treat God like a candy machine, that takes prayers.

Any God worthy of my respect would be top of the list for understanding why I didn't believe in Him, and any God that didn't understand I wouldn't respect.

Good and accurate synopsis of what Nietzsche also believed.....(of course, he was in an insane asylum when he wrote his more famous tomes, LOL,,,)

That only happened at the end of his life, and he always had issues, smart people usually do.

 

[PratchettFan]

On another thread one of the usual right wing poster stated: "Prove to me that God does not exist..." Interesting challenge, if somewhat inane. In the political context, the poster was trying.....as usual and ad nauseum...to imply that Obama is a god-less president......which, were it "true," should actually be a confirmation that we are a secular nation and, as some other nutty right wingers have stated, if Obama were a closet-Muslim, that he would certainly NOT be god-less.

Anyway, the question reminded me of Blaise Pascal "answer" to such a query, called, Pascal's Wager....and it is important to especially note that Pascal was emphasizing the "wager" or "gamble" part of his theory......He stated:

If you don't believe in God and God indeed does not exist, there is no loss.

If you don't believe in God and God DOES exist, you're in deep trouble.

If you believe in God, and God does not exist, you've wasted some considerable time in your adoration of a non-existent god.

Finally, if you DO believe in God and God DOES exist, you've won whatever prize your adoration and religious beliefs claim to offer.

Are you then willing to "gamble"???

How does one go about believing what they do not believe?

 

[nat4900]

That only happened at the end of his life, and he always had issues, smart people usually do.

True, sometime one is much more lucid when one abandons sanity.

 

[nat4900]

How does one go about believing what they do not believe?

Not even the very best of mathematicians could answer THAT question.

 

[PratchettFan]

How does one go about believing what they do not believe?

Not even the very best of mathematicians could answer THAT question.

Then the wager is meaningless. The best you can do is fake belief. Would that fool an omniscient god?

 

[BluesLegend]

Since our current understanding of the universe is at best scratching at the surface, its arrogant ignorance to declare there is no God.

 

[Derideo_Te]

That only happened at the end of his life, and he always had issues, smart people usually do.

True, sometime one is much more lucid when one abandons sanity.

How sane is anyone who is capable of deceiving themselves about something for which there is absolutely zero evidence, namely the existence of a god or gods?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Since our current understanding of the universe is at best scratching at the surface, its arrogant ignorance to declare there is no God.

My imaginary Flying Spaghetti Monster is more real than your imaginary God.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

That only happened at the end of his life, and he always had issues, smart people usually do.

True, sometime one is much more lucid when one abandons sanity.

How sane is anyone who is capable of deceiving themselves about something for which there is absolutely zero evidence, namely the existence of a god or gods?

A sane person can have faith, as long as they acknowledge it's subjective and that's what it is. Sane, but not so smart.

 

[nat4900]

How sane is anyone who is capable of deceiving themselves about something for which there is absolutely zero evidence, namely the existence of a god or gods?

Ahhhhha, my friend, as I'm sure you don't, never underestimate the power of mind and body control that religious leaders and proponents exert THROUGH religion.

 

[nat4900]

Then the wager is meaningless. The best you can do is fake belief. Would that fool an omniscient god?

.......and, to a major extent, Pascal well-knew the meaninglessness of that wager.

 

[Derideo_Te]

How sane is anyone who is capable of deceiving themselves about something for which there is absolutely zero evidence, namely the existence of a god or gods?

Ahhhhha, my friend, as I'm sure you don't, never underestimate the power of mind and body control that religious leaders and proponents exert THROUGH religion.

Religion has been both a bane and blessing throughout history depending upon who was calling the shots.

But religion is not god and any sane god would want nothing whatsoever to do with religion IMO, especially given the attrocities committed in his/her/it's name.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

How sane is anyone who is capable of deceiving themselves about something for which there is absolutely zero evidence, namely the existence of a god or gods?

Ahhhhha, my friend, as I'm sure you don't, never underestimate the power of mind and body control that religious leaders and proponents exert THROUGH religion.

Religion has been both a bane and blessing throughout history depending upon who was calling the shots.

But religion is not god and any sane god would want nothing whatsoever to do with religion IMO, especially given the attrocities committed in his/her/it's name.

A useful tool that can be used, unfortunately, to do whatever you damn well please.

 

[there4eyeM]

If a person who asks for proof that God does not exist thinks that the existence of God means life after death, the proof is very easy.

Simply maintain that you can prove it with the person's death, and offer to kill the person. The refusal is rejection of the proof and, at the same time, denial of faith there is a God.

If the person does not believe that life after death is part of the deal with God's existence, there isn't much point in proving it one way or the other, is there?

 

[nat4900]

A useful tool that can be used, unfortunately, to do whatever you damn well please.

Very true.....and, as an aside, raised as a Catholic and when I would get scolded during confession in my pre-teen years for saying to the confessor that my last confession was months ago.......I simply started to instead say that my last confession was just days ago AND that one of my sins was......lying to priests.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

If a person who asks for proof that God does not exist thinks that the existence of God means life after death, the proof is very easy.

Simply maintain that you can prove it with the person's death, and offer to kill the person. The refusal is rejection of the proof and, at the same time, denial of faith there is a God.

If the person does not believe that life after death is part of the deal with God's existence, there isn't much point in proving it one way or the other, is there?

Rarely do you meet a person more afraid of death than the average Christian. What they should welcome scares them to death, pun intended.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

A useful tool that can be used, unfortunately, to do whatever you damn well please.

Very true.....and, as an aside, raised as a Catholic and when I would get scolded during confession in my pre-teen years for saying to the confessor that my last confession was months ago.......I simply started to instead say that my last confession was just days ago AND that one of my sins was......lying to priests.

Nice...